Please "Bring Back" Rated Games

[MadCuzBad]

2 hours ago, BallisticKaine said:

This happened after ranked was removed and the groups of ranked players dropped MULTIPLE flags on newer players or solo que players in PvP they NUKED with their premade. To me that is the same as calling someone a sh***er, even though you had multiple people on 1 person. To me that just screams TMP syndrome and toxicity. Sure you want drop flags in a duel have fun doing that. Doing it to newer players and players who solo que'd into uneven match making just to be flagged multiple times by premade was just uncalled for. The removal of the flags that went boom and laughed as they went off was a good call in my opinion.

You sir just made my point exactly. I'm glad you explained to those naive ones that people like you are exactly why ranked has been cancelled. Thank you.

[septru]

8 hours ago, BallisticKaine said:

The removal of the flags that went boom and laughed as they went off was a good call in my opinion.

 

The removal of rewards that players earn in this game through sometimes years of effort should never EVER happen. Ever. In any game. Period. End of discussion. 

 

It doesn't matter if you feel like flags are toxic or any other reason. Players invested hundreds of dollars worth of subscriptions and hours to earn those rewards. They were part of the game for years. All the while  players played that content expecting that reward, and BioWare said nothing about such rewards. 

 

If you want to have a discussion about nerfing flags, or removing the sound. Then sure. But the retrospective removal of hard fought rewards is the worst slap in the face to players that earned them. This is the fastest way to get a loyal community of players to quit... that and removing ranked all together, which of course BioWare also did. 

 

Just look at the tantrum that PvErs are throwing at having their PvE rewards removed. And they can regain those rewards. PvPers can never regain the flags that they earned.

Edited March 16 by septru

[TrogdorBurnz]

Removing Pvp content is bad please bring back rated and add more Pvp content. 

[HaoZhao]

On 3/15/2024 at 3:15 PM, dftu said:

 

Evidence for your original point. The "trust me bro, I've seen the data for why ranked ended, and it had nothing to do with toxicity." 

https://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20221209 "Our goal is to create a positive and engaging PvP experience for all players by increasing the overall participation and quality of PvP matches and offering new incentives that benefit everyone who participates in PvP."

If we look at what the devs have actually said here about the removal of ranked, they do make a note that they intended to create a more positive and engaging experience (whether they've succeeded or not is a different issue entirely). One would think that there was an issue of toxicity if they felt the need to include something about that, especially when they're pointing to the quality of matches as an issue. Yes, I can see that they did have an issue about getting more people engaged when they're talking about participation since it again was that core group plus a few others here and there, but saying that ranked ending had nothing to do with toxicity and then claiming "gaslighting" to any dissenting point even when the devs have made a point that it was a factor is really something. "lol"

There were definitely toxic teeth-grinders in ranked but this was a problem from pre-season 1. Why do you think they left it alone for TEN YEARS if they actually cared about it?

But you've moved the goal posts here. You can't defend your absolutely absurd claim about ranked being active 24/7. Your own link debunked you. Not a great look.

[Beyrahl]

bring back a pvp change while you're at it too. 

[dftu]

On 3/17/2024 at 2:39 AM, HaoZhao said:

There were definitely toxic teeth-grinders in ranked but this was a problem from pre-season 1. Why do you think they left it alone for TEN YEARS if they actually cared about it?

But you've moved the goal posts here. You can't defend your absolutely absurd claim about ranked being active 24/7. Your own link debunked you. Not a great look.

You've been attacking that strawman the whole time, but if you actually stop to read my posts, nowhere have I ever stated that solo ranked quite literally popped 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The most I've said on that front is that between two servers (SF and DM), if solo ranked wasn't popping on one of them, it was probably popping on the other server. I've made points about Twitch numbers, and given you a link where you can look up any given solo ranked streamer for any given server, and you'd find that the numbers are consistent with what I'm saying, especially in the 2020-2021 window. This was in response to you talking about the current state of SWTOR Twitch with streamers struggling to break 15 viewers and you trying to use that as an argument that the current state of SWTOR Twitch is the exact same as it was years in the past. If you don't know any solo ranked streamers from back then, it's not my fault you're trying to argue a point you don't know about and are instead pointing to that strawman of ranked popping very literally 24/7, which again is never something I stated in my own arguments. So you're right, I'm not defending that claim because I never made it in the first place. 

And if we're talking about moved goal posts, that's on you again. You made a claim that ranked did not end because of toxicity, I showed you where BioWare clearly said that it was a factor ("positive and engaging PvP experience"), and now you're backtracking by saying that it actually has been a problem for years, but they didn't care about it back then. That probably is true that they didn't care about it for years, but that's a different point entirely than arguing about whether or not they cared about toxicity at the end of ranked. You can keep arguing if you want, but as you said, it wouldn't be a great look after you've been debunked by BioWare. Please continue to assume you know what the data says when the devs themselves say otherwise. 

Edited March 20 by dftu

[HaoZhao]

On 3/20/2024 at 7:37 PM, dftu said:

You've been attacking that strawman the whole time, but if you actually stop to read my posts, nowhere have I ever stated that solo ranked quite literally popped 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The most I've said on that front is that between two servers (SF and DM), if solo ranked wasn't popping on one of them, it was probably popping on the other server. I've made points about Twitch numbers, and given you a link where you can look up any given solo ranked streamer for any given server, and you'd find that the numbers are consistent with what I'm saying, especially in the 2020-2021 window. This was in response to you talking about the current state of SWTOR Twitch with streamers struggling to break 15 viewers and you trying to use that as an argument that the current state of SWTOR Twitch is the exact same as it was years in the past. If you don't know any solo ranked streamers from back then, it's not my fault you're trying to argue a point you don't know about and are instead pointing to that strawman of ranked popping very literally 24/7, which again is never something I stated in my own arguments. So you're right, I'm not defending that claim because I never made it in the first place. 

And if we're talking about moved goal posts, that's on you again. You made a claim that ranked did not end because of toxicity, I showed you where BioWare clearly said that it was a factor ("positive and engaging PvP experience"), and now you're backtracking by saying that it actually has been a problem for years, but they didn't care about it back then. That probably is true that they didn't care about it for years, but that's a different point entirely than arguing about whether or not they cared about toxicity at the end of ranked. You can keep arguing if you want, but as you said, it wouldn't be a great look after you've been debunked by BioWare. Please continue to assume you know what the data says when the devs themselves say otherwise. 

Here's your exact quote:

"SWTOR Twitch is in a very sad state now, but you used to be able to hop on and find someone streaming solo ranked at just about any time"

For this to be true, ranked would need to pop 24 hours a day which obviously was never true. One lie you tell exposes the next lie. Your own link debunked you and now you don't want to talk about it. I accept your surrender. lol

BioWare did not say they ended ranked because of toxicity. You're hearing what you want to hear and you went out of your way to not answer my question. Ranked has been toxic since pre-season 1. If you were around then, you'd know that without me having to tell you. So, I'll ask again. Why did BioWare wait TEN YEARS to do anything about it if they actually cared? Anything to the tune of "I don't want to talk about this" when you've been stumped is not a persuasive argument. Ranked isn't coming back. Thanks for staying subscribed for regs. You lose.

[sithBracer]

6 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

Here's your exact quote:

"SWTOR Twitch is in a very sad state now, but you used to be able to hop on and find someone streaming solo ranked at just about any time"

For this to be true, ranked would need to pop 24 hours a day which obviously was never true. One lie you tell exposes the next lie. Your own link debunked you and now you don't want to talk about it. I accept your surrender. lol

BioWare did not say they ended ranked because of toxicity. You're hearing what you want to hear and you went out of your way to not answer my question. Ranked has been toxic since pre-season 1. If you were around then, you'd know that without me having to tell you. So, I'll ask again. Why did BioWare wait TEN YEARS to do anything about it if they actually cared? Anything to the tune of "I don't want to talk about this" when you've been stumped is not a persuasive argument. Ranked isn't coming back. Thanks for staying subscribed for regs. You lose.

They keep clinging onto a post by BW, choosing to believe what they want to believe and closing their eyes to the truth. Probably, none of them worked at a big company before and don't understand how these decisions get made. You can explain it to them 100 times and they still will not believe it because they choose not to believe it. Sometimes, you just have to experience things for yourself to understand.

[ZUHFB]

6 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

Ranked isn't coming back.

and neither is the community, all it would've taken is bringing it into a working state for the rest of existence, remove top3 remove leaderboards and BAM, it works. Massive thoughts.

6 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

Thanks for staying subscribed for regs. You lose.

players unsubbing is in what way beneficial to you? I mean when he lost you must've won, but how did you win exactly? Less revenue means worse servers, aka cloud servers, or less content aka date night. Oh man, if thats what you understand as a win I don't wanna be here when you lose, jesus christ. 

 

Clearly we can all agree having more content in the game is good even if personally that content isn't exciting for yourself.

[dftu]

11 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

Here's your exact quote:

"SWTOR Twitch is in a very sad state now, but you used to be able to hop on and find someone streaming solo ranked at just about any time"

For this to be true, ranked would need to pop 24 hours a day which obviously was never true. One lie you tell exposes the next lie. Your own link debunked you and now you don't want to talk about it. I accept your surrender. lol

BioWare did not say they ended ranked because of toxicity. You're hearing what you want to hear and you went out of your way to not answer my question. Ranked has been toxic since pre-season 1. If you were around then, you'd know that without me having to tell you. So, I'll ask again. Why did BioWare wait TEN YEARS to do anything about it if they actually cared? Anything to the tune of "I don't want to talk about this" when you've been stumped is not a persuasive argument. Ranked isn't coming back. Thanks for staying subscribed for regs. You lose.

Oh boy, reading comprehension truly isn't your strong suit, and neither is looking at context. Is that an exact and literal statement that reads that it occurs "literally 24 hours a day, 7 days a week"? Obviously not. Since you keep clinging to "I don't know how to use that link, therefore you're a liar," let's take a look at how it works. Here are a few streamers I looked up from different parts of the world who primarily streamed ranked: channel 1, channel 2, channel 3. If you don't like these links, then go find your own channels to back up your point about 15 viewers for solo ranked streams, but you won't do that since backing up your own points is too hard for you. Again, my point about these stands. In the window of 2020-2021 that I was talking about, average viewers are mostly in that 30-50 range if not even higher, and max viewers reached 100+ for some, just like I said in my previous posts. 

And no, I didn't answer your question about BioWare's intentions prior to ranked's end because the most we can do is speculate on why they might not have cared then but do care now. Changing culture due to employee turnover? Changing culture around the gaming industry in general? Change in priorities for BW's stakeholders? Who knows? Since you're such an expert on logical fallacies, you should know that speculation without evidence falls into that category (just like your supposed "ranked data" lmao). We have concrete reasoning for why BW decided to remove ranked, and the fact that BW also removed the functionality of ranked flags as others have pointed out adds to the point that toxicity was a major factor. Did I say that it was the sole and only reason? No, but again, reading comprehension hasn't been your strong suit. Sorry buddy, but you're going to have to do better than that to claim "victory." And if you're really bringing up subscriptions here, you're stuck with regs and companion date night too lmfao. Better luck next time.

5 hours ago, sithBracer said:

They keep clinging onto a post by BW, choosing to believe what they want to believe and closing their eyes to the truth. Probably, none of them worked at a big company before and don't understand how these decisions get made. You can explain it to them 100 times and they still will not believe it because they choose not to believe it. Sometimes, you just have to experience things for yourself to understand.

A post by BW showing their intentions on ranked is much more than some mystical "data" that he has totally seen and has been completely unable to back up. You don't get to just assume you know what it says.

[HaoZhao]

9 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

and neither is the community, all it would've taken is bringing it into a working state for the rest of existence, remove top3 remove leaderboards and BAM, it works. Massive thoughts.

players unsubbing is in what way beneficial to you? I mean when he lost you must've won, but how did you win exactly? Less revenue means worse servers, aka cloud servers, or less content aka date night. Oh man, if thats what you understand as a win I don't wanna be here when you lose, jesus christ. 

 

Clearly we can all agree having more content in the game is good even if personally that content isn't exciting for yourself.

The community never left. Regs is popping every 10 minutes like it always has. Reg PVP warzones is and always has been the fastest pops in the entire game. lol

You guys keep talking about unsubbing in protest but you need to be subbed to post here. Even you can't stay away because PVP is just too fun.

Edited March 26 by HaoZhao

[HaoZhao]

4 hours ago, dftu said:

Oh boy, reading comprehension truly isn't your strong suit, and neither is looking at context. Is that an exact and literal statement that reads that it occurs "literally 24 hours a day, 7 days a week"? Obviously not. Since you keep clinging to "I don't know how to use that link, therefore you're a liar," let's take a look at how it works. Here are a few streamers I looked up from different parts of the world who primarily streamed ranked: channel 1, channel 2, channel 3. If you don't like these links, then go find your own channels to back up your point about 15 viewers for solo ranked streams, but you won't do that since backing up your own points is too hard for you. Again, my point about these stands. In the window of 2020-2021 that I was talking about, average viewers are mostly in that 30-50 range if not even higher, and max viewers reached 100+ for some, just like I said in my previous posts. 

And no, I didn't answer your question about BioWare's intentions prior to ranked's end because the most we can do is speculate on why they might not have cared then but do care now. Changing culture due to employee turnover? Changing culture around the gaming industry in general? Change in priorities for BW's stakeholders? Who knows? Since you're such an expert on logical fallacies, you should know that speculation without evidence falls into that category (just like your supposed "ranked data" lmao). We have concrete reasoning for why BW decided to remove ranked, and the fact that BW also removed the functionality of ranked flags as others have pointed out adds to the point that toxicity was a major factor. Did I say that it was the sole and only reason? No, but again, reading comprehension hasn't been your strong suit. Sorry buddy, but you're going to have to do better than that to claim "victory." And if you're really bringing up subscriptions here, you're stuck with regs and companion date night too lmfao. Better luck next time.

A post by BW showing their intentions on ranked is much more than some mystical "data" that he has totally seen and has been completely unable to back up. You don't get to just assume you know what it says.

You said that you could watch ranked streams at any time of the day. For this to be possible, ranked would have to pop all day long, which has literally never happened. You made it up, got caught, and now you're arguing "I didn't mean it literally..."

Ohhhh, you meant the exact opposite of what you explicitly said then??? Wow, what persuasive damage control you've got here. lol

BioWare's stakeholders? What are you even talking about? I think you've been watching too many bad movies or something. BioWare has exactly one stakeholder. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of Electronic Arts. Even if that wasn't the case, stakeholders don't control day-to-day decisions at publicly traded corporations. The entire reason boards of directors exist is because corporations like this literally can't oversee every little detail.

I'll also point out that you are subscribed. You cannot unsubscribe because reg PVP is just too fun.

I know for a fact that ranked only popped a few hours a day when we had it. I actually played ranked so I saw this first hand. For the vast super majority of the day, you could queue for ranked for hours and hours and get no pop. There's no assumption. Because this is an objective fact, that's definitely what BioWare's telemetry data also shows. Because that telemetry data exists, it's impossible for you to gaslight them.

[ZUHFB]

4 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

The community never left. Regs is popping every 10 minutes like it always has. Reg PVP warzones is and always has been the fastest pops in the entire game. lol

the ranked community? what else would I be talking about, tell mey where are cerasi, aqrius, ezmode, quanny, biggs and so many more? I can tell you where they are - in WoW. The reason you don't know them is because you were never part of the ranked community as far as i can tell but that don't mean it don't exist.

4 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

You guys keep talking about unsubbing in protest but you need to be subbed to post here. Even you can't stay away because PVP is just too fun.

Outdated information, apparently I don't need to be subbed to post.

4 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

I'll also point out that you are subscribed. You cannot unsubscribe because reg PVP is just too fun.

Again, wrong, there is no sub needed for regs too. Unlimited even.

4 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

you could queue for ranked for hours and hours and get no pop

mid season yes, it always depends on when and who was streaming, it depends if tanks are queueing too

4 hours ago, HaoZhao said:

I know for a fact that ranked only popped a few hours a day when we had it

And even if thats true, what about it? Uprisings don't pop at all neither does gf op.

[septru]

On 3/25/2024 at 8:53 PM, HaoZhao said:

The community never left. Regs is popping every 10 minutes like it always has.

If you're talking about the ranked community, it died in 7.2.

 

If you're talking about the regs community, it was gutted in 7.2. Most of the veteran reg players left in 7.2 when they realized that BroadSword wanted to turn their game mode into a battlepass for casuals. And that's all regs are these days, frequent pops of 8v8 storymode casuals. These players are not PvPers; I doubt even 5% of them would self-identify as part of the PvP community. Just because people play regs doesn't mean they are a PvPers or part of the PvP community. And that's exactly why you see no one care about objs anymore, or any guilds teaching new players, or any established streamers, or any PvP tournaments...

Edited March 27 by septru

[sithBracer]

23 hours ago, septru said:

If you're talking about the ranked community, it died in 7.2.

All 20 of you left?

[ZUHFB]

3 hours ago, sithBracer said:

All 20 of you left?

more than that, I can name 20 players who sold top3 accounts alone

prob around 1% of the playerbase quit, its a very real estimate, it would be equivalent to 100 people

[septru]

On 3/28/2024 at 9:20 AM, sithBracer said:

All 20 of you left?

Tell us you never played ranked, without telling us you never played ranked. 

[Luciferior]

I normally avoid this particular discussion but since I feel like Iv experienced multiple perspectives over the years..

Iv been on both sides of this particular issue Iv experienced *some* of this so called toxicity that some may claim resulted in the removal of ranked ques and the flags

At the same time the ranked community as a Whole is not *guilty* of the actions of a few

There was quite a few times I experienced good moments in ranked ques even as a new player still trying to learn and players who truly did help me progress as a player chooses to identify as a PvPer

And I do truly believe Ranked should be brought back if possible while this PvP season is they have now imo is just making it worse

I continue to PvP because I truly enjoy it I do not care about these lackluster rewards that encourage afk players farming weeklies

Now I am going to say this I expect some here may disagree you are welcome to do so this is purely my opinion so just because I say this doesnt make it fact lol

 

I think personally there is a little blame to go around for both the devs and some of the ranked community *not as a whole* but in my personal experience on SS and on SF there was a guild or 2 that took ranked a bit more serious than others

Nonetheless over the years of trying to improve as a player In general I can look back on *some* of those experiences with a bit more of a reasonable nature and be more understanding of their perspective

I didnt get better at PvP by always winning .....countless people have dogged me and beat my ass enough in PvP to remind me there is always room to improve as a player and while some of the experiences were for sure unpleasant I do feel like I progressed a bit further because of them

Far as the Devs go imo their hands are not clean in this matter they set the stage and the rules for how ranked was conducted they cannot simply duck out and hide off the forums like they do when it comes to this particular topic and others that have befallen PvP

I personally believe the devs neglected the game mode and as a result *some* of the players took matters into their own hands 

This "PvP season" we have now is ***Garbage*** and I would be worried if anyone that claims to support PvP were to say otherwise in defense of the devs

I am not going to linger in this thread in terms of commenting I might come back occasionally to read up on what is being discussed

My words merely carry my opinion regarding this issue and the perspective I feel like I have gained from being on both sides of this topic over the years

But I will end it with #BringRankedBack

Edited March 30 by Luciferior

[sithBracer]

On 3/29/2024 at 1:21 PM, septru said:

Tell us you never played ranked, without telling us you never played ranked. 

The number 20 actually came from a well known streamer who does ranked all the time (your friend mentioned his name above), I personally thought it was 30. But I guess he never played ranked huh?

Also, if you are interested in my ranked experience, you can watch some of your friend's (eyessoitchy or something??) old streams where you were "having too many friends" (wink wink) and still lost to us. Now you made me sad for losing my 94k ranked comms simply because I took a break 1 month before 7.2 *cries in a corner*

Edited March 30 by sithBracer

[septru]

Putting aside the laughable notion that I'm going to look through thousands of hours of twitch vods to find an anonymous character name...

 

It's completely disingenuous to tell complete lies like "only 20 people played ranked." Perhaps at its worst, at 2am in the morning 8 months into a year long season... sure? But as I've said many times, the population only fell of that much as a result of BioWare neglect in the first place. 

 

But then again, all of this is pointless discussion. Most people here on the forums likely have never done ranked. And no amount of truth is going to outweigh the amount of propaganda other people, who supposedly have done lots of ranked but at the same time don't want people to know their character name, have told. 

Edited March 30 by septru

[ZUHFB]

4 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Ah so you have thousands of hours of you "having too many friends"? Thank you for clarifying.

Bro how is this even still haunting prum. What he is trying to explain is so ULTRA obvious, its just people like you and snave not wanting to understand.

Prum, and everybody else in the ranked community, know each other - yes it is a tight nit circle, especially if you're a daily player and play NA and EU like (his names eyesonvelli) nike and prum did. But that doesn't mean they're cheaters. I personally like prum because he is a great player and I have a lot of fun playing against him, this doesn't mean I'd throw for him and I'd hope he wouldn't do it for me - its just straight up boring.

People who don't like ranked simply cannot fathem that we actually like it for what it is, and not for the rewards. Good players always know each other because playing against another is the best way to improve. Prum saying he has many friends doesn't mean its people who'd throw for him, it describes a group of people who respect each other for their actions in an arena match. If someone was to throw for prum (correct me if I'm wrong) he'd probably like that person less, at least I would.

[ZUHFB]

4 hours ago, sithBracer said:

You purposely always queued with other people while being in voice with them, coordinated in real time, making light of what solo ranked was supposed to be.

First of all nothing is stoping an arena group from doing the same, regardless of that though it's clear you cannot understand ranked from a top3 perspective. There is essentially only two ways to lose, the enemy team has more players with a name you know then yours, or you messed up. Everything else is won. If prum and nike queue together and they get against each other all they do is talk about information both have access too "oh man that guy broke", "yeah I saw lmao". Both nike and prum and great players, they don't need a callout to see this.

And if they get into one team they'd have 99% winrate anyways even without comms, like I understand that it sounds unfair but it really doesn't matter. Afaik they even didn't talk about the game if they were in one team, but thats hearsay i wouldn't know for sure.

[septru]

5 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

Bro how is this even still haunting prum. What he is trying to explain is so ULTRA obvious, its just people like you and snave not wanting to understand.

 

There's no point trying to engage with this guy. It's useless. This guy has been obsessively responding to every single one of my comments with "I have too many friends" (as if it somehow a bad thing) in order to ignore and deflect from the actual conversation. It's not worth derailing threads to respond to delusional people. 

[sithBracer]

14 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

First of all nothing is stoping an arena group from doing the same,

Stopped reading right there. Do you understand the meaning of the word "solo" in solo ranked? Also, why are you defending him so much? He is an adult and can speak for himself.

[sithBracer]

9 hours ago, septru said:

 

There's no point trying to engage with this guy. It's useless. This guy has been obsessively responding to every single one of my comments with "I have too many friends" (as if it somehow a bad thing) in order to ignore and deflect from the actual conversation. It's not worth derailing threads to respond to delusional people. 

Don't you hate it when people derail threads with personal attacks with no evidence. We need more constructive dialogue like this:

On 3/29/2024 at 1:21 PM, septru said:

Tell us you never played ranked, without telling us you never played ranked.