What does it take to get Broadsword to remember that GSF exists?

[Darkestmonty]

13 minutes ago, DWho said:

They could make it so crashing into something is not an automatic "self-destruct". If they make "self-destructing" harder, less people will find it to be an easy option to speed up matches. Make it so it takes running into things 3 times to "destruct". First time removes your shields, second time half you max hull, third time the rest of your hull assuming no repairs in between.

you just made the game 100% harder, 200% harder and 300% harder for new players.

Do you think a self destructor who is intentionally ending the game is going to care about their shields, half their hull, and then full hull health?

No, it'll be faster for them to die when they fly straight into the enemy gunfire missing their shields and hull. Meanwhile a new GSF player is going to get killed extremely fast because they keep using their missile break and slamming into an asteroid.

Instead of trying to create punishments to stop self destructing, give people a reason to keep playing even if they are on a losing team. Let medals earned determine the advancement of dailies and weeklies instead of win or lose.

Edited February 16 by Darkestmonty

[DWho]

11 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

you just made the game 100% harder, 200% harder and 300% harder for new players.

1) No change is going to make the game mode more enjoyable. It has a cult following but most of the people playing are playing for the Conquest points alone

2) How is making it harder for crashes to end up in respawns making it harder for new players. Right now you make one mistake and you are dead (and the other team progresses toward their victory condition). New players crash a lot so making it harder for them to be destroyed benefits them.

3) If it takes crashing into something then running around trying to get shot, that takes a whole lot longer than crashing into the spawn ship repeatedly. If it takes longer to self-destruct it reduces the incentive to use that tactic to "speed-up" the game (and it is much less effective at doing so).

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

1) No change is going to make the game mode more enjoyable. It has a cult following but most of the people playing are playing for the Conquest points alone

2) How is making it harder for crashes to end up in respawns making it harder for new players. Right now you make one mistake and you are dead (and the other team progresses toward their victory condition). New players crash a lot so making it harder for them to be destroyed benefits them.

3) If it takes crashing into something then running around trying to get shot, that takes a whole lot longer than crashing into the spawn ship repeatedly. If it takes longer to self-destruct it reduces the incentive to use that tactic to "speed-up" the game (and it is much less effective at doing so).

I thought you were saying after the first self destruct their shields are taken away at respawn, the second time their shields and half their hull, the third time their shields and full hull taken away at respawn leaving them with basically 1 health.

Lowering crash damage is only going to delay death by a couple seconds at most and doesn't fix why people are self destructing or AFKing. If you have a health/shield bomber you can skip them across an object 2-3 times before they blow up and it only takes a couple of seconds to do this.

Edited February 16 by Darkestmonty

[Traceguy]

Y'all missing the simplest solution.

Stop making self destructs give the enemy team a point.

Do the opposite. Make self destructs give your team -1. This way, the enemy benefits as before, your team becomes +1 further behind the enemy just as before, and the troll self destructing has pushed the enemy team no closer to 50 points.

[DWho]

11 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Y'all missing the simplest solution.

Stop making self destructs give the enemy team a point.

Do the opposite. Make self destructs give your team -1. This way, the enemy benefits as before, your team becomes +1 further behind the enemy just as before, and the troll self destructing has pushed the enemy team no closer to 50 points.

Or just don't make them count al all toward victory conditions (or the non contributing timer reset)

[Traceguy]

2 minutes ago, DWho said:

Or just don't make them count al all toward victory conditions (or the non contributing timer reset)

Then you have a problem where people self destruct on purpose to prevent the enemy from killing them.

Reversing the self-destruct point keeps the game the same for both sides without rewarding the person doing the destruct.

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Then you have a problem where people self destruct on purpose to prevent the enemy from killing them.

Reversing the self-destruct point keeps the game the same for both sides without rewarding the person doing the destruct.

But your way just makes it worse. It makes self-destructing even more profitable for ending matches quickly. You effectively are making each crash worth 2 victory points, one for the crash and 1 more as a penalty for crashing. This also will create animosity towards new players who are going to crash more often.

[Traceguy]

5 minutes ago, DWho said:

But your way just makes it worse. It makes self-destructing even more profitable for ending matches quickly.

That's not true. I implore you reread it.

[DWho]

1 minute ago, Traceguy said:

That's not true. I implore you reread it.

What happens is that one side gets a victory point while the other side loses one. That results in an "unwinable" match faster which will result in even more self-destructing. Self-destructs happen when people want to get out of the match quickly for whatever the reason.

[Traceguy]

3 minutes ago, DWho said:

What happens is that one side gets a victory point while the other side loses one. That results in an "unwinable" match faster which will result in even more self-destructing. Self-destructs happen when people want to get out of the match quickly for whatever the reason.

That's not true. I never said That. I will break it down, because reading is hard.

Quote

1. Stop making self destructs give the enemy team a point.

This means the enemy doesn't get a point.

Quote

2. Do the opposite. Make self destructs give your team -1.

This means the enemy doesn't get a point.

It means you lose a point.

 

Quote

3. This way, the enemy benefits as before, your team becomes +1 further behind the enemy just as before,

This means just like it works currently, destructing puts your team 1 point behind the enemy.

 

Quote

4. and the troll self destructing has pushed the enemy team no closer to 50 points.

This means the enemy is no closer to 50 points, even if 1 player self destructs 50 times.

Edited February 16 by Traceguy

[DWho]

2 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

That's not true. I never said That. I will break it down, because reading is hard.

This means the enemy doesn't get a point.

This means the enemy doesn't get a point.

It means you lose a point.

 

This means just like it works currently, destructing puts your team 1 point behind the enemy.

 

This means the enemy is no closer to 50 points, even if 1 player self destructs 50 times.

Making them not count at all is far better and much simpler to code. If what you say is true, that is effectively what you are getting with your method (SDs not counting toward victory conditions). It still doesn't solve the issue that new players crash more often and thus will be targeted by other players on their team for making the match unwinable.

[Traceguy]

7 minutes ago, DWho said:

Making them not count at all is far better and much simpler to code.

I am a programmer, and I can say you are 100% wrong.

Basically, the code looks something like this
 

Quote

if (player.selfDestruct) {

enemy.points++

}

Here is the new proposed code
 

Quote

if (player.selfDestruct) {

team.points--;

}

 

Not counting the self-destructs only hurts the enemy team, as you can now dodge deaths by killing yourself. I can only assume you are looking to take advantage of such a tactic.

Edited February 16 by Traceguy

[DWho]

21 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

I am a programmer, and I can say you are 100% wrong.

Basically, the code looks something like this
 

Here is the new proposed code
 

 

Not counting the self-destructs only hurts the enemy team, as you can now dodge deaths by killing yourself. I can only assume you are looking to take advantage of such a tactic.

No point in discussing this further. Your comprehension of what I have said is biased by your own desire to gain advantage from the tactic while denying it to others.

You are adding code to the game, while setting SD not equal to death is simply not incrementing the VP variable when the death is via a crash (and clearly there is a conditional determining crash vs death since you get different messages on screen).

No points for death is by far the simplest approach and it does nothing to harm new players like your system would. Better to lose a handful of Victory Points to crashes (and it is impossible for the code to differentiate which are intended and which aren't) than have new players be the target of verbal attacks by the pros.

I can only assume you are trying to take advantage of a piece of code that allows you to win faster because you want out of the match too.

 

Let me put this as simply as I can. If I am a new player, why should my team be punished for an unintentional crash? Your system doesn't differentiate between intentional and unintentional crashes.

Edited February 16 by DWho
Added Question

[Lenlo]

Broadsword doesn't have the resources to develop much of anything right now.

[Rho-zhen]

GSF can be brutal for sure, from premade teams to Sd-ers.. ie: you can't win, please or placate em all.

On a completely different track, a couple things I've always wondered if were feasible.

One deals with the concept of moving space debris, asteroids and such, with damage effects particularly in TDM.

The other would be the concept of a Destroy the base/capital ship type map & objectives within a time frame,

either with the players vs an Ai or teams vs opponents bases/defense structures.

In the past there were times when a team would attempt to destroy the opponents spawn ships, even if just for fun.

Beyond that of course we'd all probably like to see availability of older cartel or new type ships and a cosmetic sale from time to time.

[SnakeSNMF]

reasonable and fair questions to ask. dak is offering constructive criticism that could help the game quite a bit. and, really. broadsword? it could use some love. yes. the community is smaller then the rest of the game. but it didn't necessarily go the way of squadrons. its obscurity is niche to itself, but the MMO is still alive. help it flourish. help the community be able to enjoy the game again without people exploiting it and taking advantage of systems that shouldn't be there for them to abuse.

[GuigeekRhadamant]

FFS don't self destruct because you think it is over because you're too lazy to wait for the end ! We were losing on this one at first, seeing the configuration and the enemy team i switched ship and here we are : https://www.zupimages.net/up/23/14/ctzp.png

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, GuigeekRhadamant said:

FFS don't self destruct because you think it is over because you're too lazy to wait for the end ! We were losing on this one at first, seeing the configuration and the enemy team i switched ship and here we are : https://www.zupimages.net/up/23/14/ctzp.png

With win or lose being the only thing dailies and weeklies use for advancement, it's faster to lose quickly when your team falls too far behind.

Let's say 4 out of the 5 games you extend but still lose. Each game took you 20 minutes. In 100 minutes you earned 6 points, from 4 losses and 1 win.

Let's say instead of dragging those games out you ended them all in 10 minutes. You can get 6 points in 60 minutes instead of 100 minutes.

Since performance is not rewarded and there is little chance a team making a comeback, dragging out numerous losses not only rewards less points but takes longer.

There is no benefit dragging out a lost game especially if the game is a one sided fight and you are losing.

Edited February 21 by Darkestmonty

[Traceguy]

6 hours ago, GuigeekRhadamant said:

FFS don't self destruct because you think it is over because you're too lazy to wait for the end ! We were losing on this one at first, seeing the configuration and the enemy team i switched ship and here we are : https://www.zupimages.net/up/23/14/ctzp.png

Poor sportsmanship aside, is wanting to end an unbeatable match early any different than everyone typing "/stuck" during an op boss fight? Why not just fight to the death?

 

[Toraak]

13 minutes ago, Traceguy said:

Poor sportsmanship aside, is wanting to end an unbeatable match early any different than everyone typing "/stuck" during an op boss fight? Why not just fight to the death?

 

Bad comparison. What one may think is unwinnable in a PvP or GSF match may not actually be unwinnable. I've had massive comebacks happen over the years where I thought for sure I'd lose in the beginning of the match. We all stuck with it and kept fighting and we won.

 

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Toraak said:

Bad comparison. What one may think is unwinnable in a PvP or GSF match may not actually be unwinnable. I've had massive comebacks happen over the years where I thought for sure I'd lose in the beginning of the match. We all stuck with it and kept fighting and we won.

 

You could turn around one in 10 or 15 games at best mainly because skill level between teams is rarely similar.

Dragging out every loss makes finishing dailies and weeklies take more time since they only track win or losses and not how well you do. So why drag a fight out if the chance to turn around a game is low?

If my team stands a chance at winning I try to win, if my team is facing the same premade group that has been dominating GSF all night long, I'm going to start self destructing as soon as the game starts.

Edited February 21 by Darkestmonty