Re-selling needs to stop

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Strathkin said:

I knew you were someone who buys low or cheap, then resells for far more; hence the Haha...   

oh no you figured out my deep dark shame of... knowing the basics of economics and earning credits on the GTN!

  

55 minutes ago, Traderunner said:

Just a small correction, in case anybody didn't know :

You can already create a Cyborg for any class. You don't need the Legacy Species Unlock : Cyborg for that.

lol that unlock is completely pointless then. Not sure why anyone would buy that.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Jarcen]

16 hours ago, SoontirMorillo said:

okay... last try.

we know, that's not how it works. that's why we made this thread. to change how it works. we give points and benefits of the change. and you only reply with "ja, but that's not how it works". just because it isn't currently this way, doesn't mean it has to stay that way forever.

what is so hard to understand on the concept of "change"?

What I mean by how that doesn't work is that you just don't penalize people simply because they're reselling at a higher price. Real world economics don't penalize traders who sell their goods at a price higher than the one they bought. Of course not. But just in real life, the market corrects itself when buyers stop patronizing such sellers and seek out those who sell at more reasonable prices. That's how things work.  What some propose seem to be a more controlled economy, not a free economy.

[Strathkin]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

oh no you figured out my deep dark shame of... knowing the basics of economics and earning credits on the GTN!

Basic's would distinguish between fair profit of 35% being quite good.  Yet many corporations, or business owners who charge higher margins, are actually offering several value added services; and you aren't adding any extra value.  If Broadsword for example wanted to charge you instead of 14.99 a month for your subscription, charged 19.99 or 24.99 a month what would you call it?  Yet if they made it optional, and offered an extra 525 Cartel Coins, or an extra 1050 Coins depending on choice; in addition to the 500 - 600 (With Security Key) provided by Basic Membership then you'd call that Value Add services.  

Still we can only agree to disagree, and move on.  Peace!

2 hours ago, Traderunner said:

Just a small correction, in case anybody didn't know :

You can already create a Cyborg for any class. You don't need the Legacy Species Unlock : Cyborg for that.

...

I think it makes all, or almost all, Cybernetic options available to all origin stories on a Legacy. Without the unlock, only some Cybernetic options are available to each origin story.

Whether or not that's worth the unlock's price in Credits, Cartel Coins, or the time required to level up a character to Level 50, only you can decide.

Yes this is it, Cyborg's were one of the cheaper ones to unlock for like 750,000 Credit's not 1,500,000 like several others; so even asking 45 million is Greed.  Still I wouldn't pay that price, and just surprised anyone even pays 2 million on GTN.

Unlocking Cyborg is supposed to give you access to all Cyborg options when you create a character; rather than having a lot more limited cybernetic choices. 

---------

I generally however ignore those Crazy High Prices, just as Jarcen advises and I'm often surprised at Prices other's will sometimes rarely pay.  I always wait, be patient, research and discover what an item typically costs, and don't just look at median price but wait for a good price.  I also ensure their isn't an alternative way to acquire the item thru Legacy, or other Reward's as well.  

And an item that cost 600 coins even selling that for 45 million is a very high profit indeed, especially when most reseller's wait for a 50% off flash sale! The Median Price for Cyborg even with a healthy profit margin should be far closer to 5m at best, not the 45m Median Price, when it was listed today for 3.5 billion.  To me that's just grossly negligent behavior on the extreme side by a limited few.  *sigh*  

So all I can mostly do, is feel sorry for those who don't research or google first.   

Edited December 30, 2023 by Strathkin

[Darkestmonty]

1 hour ago, Strathkin said:

Basic's would distinguish between fair or good profit of 35% being quite good.  Yet many corporations, or business owners who charge higher margins, are actually offering several value added services; and you aren't adding any extra value, just flipping and driving prices higher.  If Broadsword for example wanted to charge you instead of 14.99 a month for your subscription, charged 19.99 or 24.99 a month what would you call it?  Yet if they made it optional, and offered an extra 525 Cartel Coins, or an extra 1050 Coins depending on choice; in addition to the 500 - 600 (With Security Key) provided by Basic Membership then you'd call that Value Add services. 

If I post and item and a player buys it, it's a fair deal between the only two players that matter; the buyer and I. Your opinion about what is fair is meaningless for a deal you had no part in.

The only real service I offer is I stay active year round, I buy up items when they are cheap and plentiful (like now) and resell them when they are hard to locate and very expensive. You might be shocked at how much a Wampa Life Day Bundle sells for six months from now when they aren't available.

But you are more than welcome to judge the buyer and me for making a trade without your blessing.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Strathkin]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

If I post and item and a player buys it, it's a fair deal between the only two players that matter; the buyer and I. Your opinion about what is fair is meaningless for a deal you had no part in.

Still give me credit, I've respected you're point of view, even suggested the OP's original idea might need to evolve; cause restricting items purchased off GTN, to being permanently bound, just isn't good for anyone!  As I said earlier, because if you make a accidental purchase, then you can't even resell it and require to discard it.  Then you also wouldn't be able to buy things for Guild or others as well.  Still I offered them something as an alternative, and shared the heat with OP, only because their point is also very fair to make.  I'm not really pushing one side, or the other, just offered alternative that's more fair and less harsh.

So if nothing else your reputation has climbed by 1 point higher, thanks to me; even though it was the Haha  that grew it.  

As I said, peace.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Strathkin

[Otowi]

16 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

some of the green gear had rare models you could no longer get. I believe Bioware disabled the ability to get a lot of older models in 7.0 or shortly after. For collectors 750 million for a model you can no longer get can be a worth while purchase.

True. But I would think it's a risk to buy something like that and hope to get it resold. I know you can't do that anymore, but still not something I would risk, as most green stuff is pretty worthless, and most just ignore it or vendor it.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Otowi

[Darkestmonty]

2 hours ago, Otowi said:

True. But I would think it's a risk to buy something like that and hope to get it resold. I know you can't do that anymore, but still not something I would risk, as most green stuff is pretty worthless, and most just ignore it or vendor it.

a couple of the people i knew trying to sell these never did but they were the original owners who found them in their packs. They were asking 1-1.5 billion.

[Otowi]

1 hour ago, Darkestmonty said:

a couple of the people i knew trying to sell these never did but they were the original owners who found them in their packs. They were asking 1-1.5 billion.

That's... a lot to ask for, even if it's no longer in the loot table. No wonder they could not sell it at those prices.

[Toraak]

On 12/29/2023 at 1:07 AM, Jarcen said:

Reselling is part of the economy, which is very normal practice both ingame and IRL. You just can't stop reselling as there will always be people who want to make profit and are business-minded. That's just how things go...

100% this ^. If people are buying up your items and reselling them, that should make it clear your selling your items for far to little credits. There is nothing wrong with buying something someone either doesn't know the value of, or selling to much below market value and reselling.

 

I don't do it often personally, but if I notice something way to low I have no issues with buying it to flip it.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Toraak

[casirabit]

You need to check the market before you put it for sale, which is what I do.   Example:  The last amount listed 25,000.00 and then someone lists it for $1,000.  Now come on you know the person did not check the market.  They were just lazy or in a hurry to get rid of it, so someone else purchased it and then re-sales at a price in line with the 25,000.00

[heeeysa]

Not so much worried about the servers that are already ruined but Shae Vizla in particular. It all could be moot if they allow trillions to come in via transfer but since nothing has been said yet I thought I would put it out there. It just seems like an obvious change that is only beneficial to everyone and easy to implement and was confused as to why it wasn't already added with the aforementioned GTN update.

[ReKabNad]

There's a simple, easy way for you, as a player, to combat Re-Sellers and Flippers (or Scalpers, as they're often referred to In Real Life) without resorting to the Draconian measures mentioned in this thread: Speak with your WALLET! If the price is too high, DO NOT BUY! Exercise that rapidly vanishing character trait known as PATIENCE and WAIT until the item gets listed at a more agreeable price, and THEN buy it for yourself! 

This is the way. I have spoken. 

[Jarcen]

7 hours ago, ReKabNad said:

There's a simple, easy way for you, as a player, to combat Re-Sellers and Flippers (or Scalpers, as they're often referred to In Real Life) without resorting to the Draconian measures mentioned in this thread: Speak with your WALLET! If the price is too high, DO NOT BUY! Exercise that rapidly vanishing character trait known as PATIENCE and WAIT until the item gets listed at a more agreeable price, and THEN buy it for yourself! 

This is the way. I have spoken. 

Exactly what I was talking about here: do not patronize sellers who you think sells too high. The reason why such sellers exist is because they have customers. If they don't have customers they'd be forced to sell at a lower price just to move their items along.

[heeeysa]

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. People just buy credits and then buy whatever price it was being sold for which is what leads to things costing so much and at the same time gives cash to bots instead of the game. That's part of the reason I don't like re-selling; it just gets to a point where everyone buys credits to keep up with the costs.

[ReKabNad]

5 hours ago, heeeysa said:

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. People just buy credits and then buy whatever price it was being sold for which is what leads to things costing so much and at the same time gives cash to bots instead of the game. That's part of the reason I don't like re-selling; it just gets to a point where everyone buys credits to keep up with the costs.

What you've described only happens because some people are impatient, and they turn into Veruca Salt: "I don't care how, I want it NOW!!!" Scalpers always prey on such people. 

[heeeysa]

Pretty much everyone I ever talked to when costs got out of hand had bought credits. I've never heard of anyone being suspended/banned for it. The fact it's just a part of the game is something that can be avoided by not ruining the cost of items on the GTN. I would even prefer if BS sold the credits themselves; at least then it goes towards the game and not some bot farm.

 

It's not realistic to farm 5billion through heroics for some items you want. When they are only 5million, as can be seen on Shae Vizla, nothing is out of reach. That is how the economy should be. Pandering to people who buy credits only makes more people buy credits and then you end up with prices like on the other servers. It's just not how a game should operate.

Edited January 4 by heeeysa

[Darkestmonty]

8 minutes ago, heeeysa said:

Pretty much everyone I ever talked to when costs got out of hand had bought credits. I've never heard of anyone being suspended/banned for it. The fact it's just a part of the game is something that can be avoided by not ruining the cost of items on the GTN. I would even prefer if BS sold the credits themselves; at least then it goes towards the game and not some bot farm.

 

It's not realistic to farm 5billion through heroics for some items you want. When they are only 5million, as can be seen on Shae Vizla, nothing is out of reach. That is how the economy should be.

since I mainly trade in this game, I know a few who have been banned for buying credits. I have also known people who buy credits try to offer and have the sellers send them to me directly when they are buying an item from me and told them to GTFO.

Edited January 4 by Darkestmonty

[TrixxieTriss]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:08 PM, Jdast said:

Do you know how you can tell I'm a reseller? Simple, I'm telling you openly I'm a reseller. And, frankly, I don't give a womp rat's behind if you think I'm a thief, a grifter, a credit seller, the Grinch, Scrooge, or a greedy Hutt.

Other players are free to say that the GTN should be a form of charity and items sold on it should have low prices to help those for whom (in their mind) said item was intended.

Personally, I have a very different target audience in mind -- the player / buyer who will maximize my profit. I make zero apologies for that and feel no shame.

As it turns out, I also thinks my actions help keep SWTOR afloat. I concur fully with @Darkestmonty that Cartel Market purchases are instrumental in keeping this game afloat. I absolutely would not purchase items on the Cartel Market if I felt that selling them should be viewed as an act of charity. To wit, just yesterday I purchased several of the new armor dyes which I'm going to hold in my bank for a while in case of a rainy day and sell on the GTN if needed. Don't like my actions -- too bad -- don't buy them.

I save my charity for guildmates and friends, not strangers on the GTN.

I don't do much flipping / reselling largely because I find it boring, but there are others who obviously enjoy this aspect of the game and are well within the ToS to do so. And, more importantly...

Hate us whales all you want (although you don't even have to be a whale to be a reseller / flipper), but we are a large reason the lights are still on in a galaxy far, far away. 

It is shocking to me that some think newer players are entitled to low prices for cosmetic items. The only items on the GTN that increase your in-game power are Augments -- and even those can be made without spending anything on the Cartel Market (i.e., it's not pay-to-win). It is hardly "theft" when a newer player chooses to voluntarily pay what someone views as an exhorbitant price for a cosmetic item.

And, as noted correctly above, reselling is absolutely one of the best credit sinks available, particularly under the new system. There is overwhelming evidence to support this point.

Put bluntly: Don't hate me because I'm rich -- hate me because I'm rich, smart and, most importantly, faaabuuullllooouuuussss.

Dasty

Edit: Surmising that someone has a newer account implies nefarious action and therefore banned in the past is tacky and pretty low. I left in in early 2013 after Ilum PvP debacle. I returned in December 2016 b/c EA couldn't find my old account. If you think my original account had action take against it -- you would be be sorely mistaken.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. 

[DWho]

The problem isn't reselling really. The problem is that there are too many credits in circulation. This allows a few individuals to completely control the market bypassing normal competition. Over the years, the "addition" of "grey" credits to the game (and not a small number of outright TOS violating ones as well) has driven up prices faster than the ability of the average player to purchase anything at all on the GTN. If the cost of items gets balanced against generating credits, reselling won't be a problem and prices will fall. SV is currently operating properly as far as the GTN is concerned. There are some issues there with the credit sinks that were designed to slow down credit generation on the other servers. The current credit sinks are based on a hyperinflated economy not a properly functioning one.

[kjarnage]

First gold spammers ( those that sell credits for real money should be reported by everyone and immediately banned).  Historically and today  they buy credits for real money to resell for real money and should be banned. You should by cartel coins for really money and sell the items. That supports the game. Another way gold spammers make credits is with bots picking up materials. Love to kill them in pvp instances or race ahead to pick up their mats. A real person would tell you off after doing that to them. Often spammers are selling things in huge lots such as 9999 item lots.

Want to stop those gold spammers in game reselling do not buy their way over priced items. Be an educated consumer. Undercut them.

There is a dedicated group for years that have been trying to stabilize prices. Trying to drive prices down when they get to high.  A losing battle for years. Yes we pay a lot of taxes. We have donated billions in credits and items to guilds.  We teach others how to gather, craft, sell and buy adding to the economy.   

When supplies get way too high the prices drop and we buy. Without the ability to do this there is no way to craft, gather... enough to increase supply to drive prices down. when they rise. A lot of items over an extended period are needed to drive the prices down.  If prices are too low prices it deters people from gathering and crafting new items and making a reasonable return on their efforts.  

Do not be against reselling be against ridiculous high prices.