Shae Vizla Launch Updates

[AFadedMemory]

3 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Your consistent comments about the economy actually mattering when they are trying to make a regional server says it all. No matter where you play from your only reason your there seems to be for the fresh start aspect. 

If full transfer are allowed I would still play on SV over SS (SS was the server I played on before SV) this is because of the names I was able to acquire and I like shae vizla more than satele shan (if I liked Darth Malgus more I would be playing there). I'm not threating to leave or unsub if a credit limits are or are not implemented.  (I would actually transfer billions of credits over myself.) I have not stated I want SV moved to the US, and I want my legacy and Achievements. Look at my post and you will see that I have not been asking for anything more then limited credit.

 

9 minutes ago, Toraak said:

The only thing Broadsword should worry about is getting as many APAC players to that server as they can. Any restrictions to transfers, whether it's what they can carry or credit limits is a bad idea. Players that have played and earned what they have won't want to move if they'll have such restrictions. Thus making that server more likely to fail.

No they should worry about how much people are spending on the game, and how to increase this. Allowing transfers with a credit limit would most likely have the most benefits for the game. New APAC players won't be crushed by inflation, and Old APAC players will get their achievements and gear (some of which can not be obtained any more) Will raider be hurt sure, is maximum credits required to fix this na. BS could modify the repair sink (I would recommend) Offer free repair tokens. 

[FrontLineFodder]

3 hours ago, AFadedMemory said:

Because people who are farming credits  for purposes other then raiding would destroy the economy. Unlike people who don’t want to deal with a broken economy, you can deal with high repair cost on another server. You can probably handle repair cost when transfers open even with a limited credit limit. (Toon In Gear that could/should be fully repaired plus several repairs worth of credit moved over for free)

Serious question,

What would you say if a group of players got together and focussed on generating wealth to dominate the GTN ?

If this against the TOS? No, no more than conquest guilds dominating invasion boards does.

Would it break the Service economy (Repairs, QuickTravel, Vendor sales) ? No, these unlimited services are provided by the game at a fixed price

Would it reduce players being able to buy things off the GTN at low prices ? Yes, you know why, because people, or Players are greedy, if someone is willing to buy something at a higher price, they will sell it at a higher price.

in 3 months time the group could then flood the market with items beating independent sellers, raking in further credits.

however if this were to happen, it still would not be game breaking. the GTN is purely optional, and no matter how expensive the Player market is, it does not effect the service economy players use to play the game (Repairs, Travel, Vendor sales).
Guilds could organise to supply crafted items
Players could trade items directly

 

Then again, for all we know you could yourself be organising to do this yourself. hence your strong opposition to players retaining their wealth when transfers open.

 

The end result is the same, the player market is highly inflated, but in the meantime many players have left simply because their wealth was locked behind a remote server that is a worse experience to play on.

[FrontLineFodder]

2 hours ago, Toraak said:

Thanks for the laugh. Your completely correct, but it is still funny. 

 

And even tho I'm a non APAC, I still say Broadsword should have no restrictions when it comes to transfers. The only question is how many Free transfers you should get. 

thanks,

That's the reaction I was going for, though OP didn't thing so and vehemently denies it

[FrontLineFodder]

55 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

This is my last post responding to you. Don't take this personally, but you having no idea about anything in terms of the server economy. You don't know the costs of repairs, you don't know the cost of crafting and you don't know the cost of gearing. I'll give youj a lesson of the current state of gearing, currently if I wish to min/max gear I will be looking at around 55-60 million if I both PVE and PVP FOR ONE SPEC (not a class, a single spec) If I have have  Tank/DPS class its actually double that because each gold aug on the GTN is about 3.5 million (on SV) there are 14 augment slots 14 x 3.5 = 49 million then you have tacticals x 3 (at least) then you need augment kits 100 K x 14 and then opening the augment slots is 100 K x 14. Just off that it's 54.8 million for 1 spec, maybe you should stay in your lane and know what you are talking about.  Understand this changes for PVP because accuracy requirements change in PVP in compared with PVE so you are looking at least another 3 gold augs to min/max for PVP. 

Thanks MuskyBoy,

I only play casual pug ops myself, but nice to see my the breakdown of what real gearing looks like.

I can just imaging this across multiple specs and multiple characters (I assume lockouts drive you to having even more characters again)

[DWho]

2 hours ago, Toraak said:

The only question is how many Free transfers you should get. 

That's the balance they are looking to achieve. The more free transfers, the lower the per character limit should be. You should be able to transfer up to the character credit max as long as you pay the CC cost of the transfer.

[DWho]

4 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

I only play casual pug ops myself, but nice to see my the breakdown of what real gearing looks like.

Except that there is no reason you can't buy the gear on the server where you have all the credits and transfer it to the server you are going to in one or more characters inventory. That way you have gear for "future" characters and don't need to bring billions of credits along. Also, since gear is legacy bound, you can't convert it back to credits to get around the limitations.

Repair costs is really the only sticking point

Edited January 21 by DWho

[MuskyBoy]

1 minute ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Thanks MuskyBoy,

I only play casual pug ops myself, but nice to see my the breakdown of what real gearing looks like.

I can just imaging this across multiple specs and multiple characters (I assume lockouts drive you to having even more characters again)

Yeah but the new players won't be able to min/max either.

[MuskyBoy]

6 minutes ago, DWho said:

Except that there is no reason you can't buy the gear on the server where you have all the credits and transfer it to the server you are going to in one or more characters inventory. That way you have gear for "future" characters and don't need to bring billions of credits along. Also, since gear is legacy bound, you can't convert it back to credits to get around the limitations.

Repair costs is really the only sticking point

Yeah but unless that gets bound on transfer players can then resell on SV inflating the costs on that server. Because Augment are bind on equip. You also assume everyone has the credits to buy 14 gold augs on American servers.

Edited January 21 by MuskyBoy

[DWho]

5 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

You also assume everyone has the credits to buy 14 gold augs on American servers.

If you don't have the credits to buy them anyway, I'm not understanding what the issue is.

[MuskyBoy]

Just now, DWho said:

If you don't have the credits to buy them anyway, I'm not understanding what the issue is.

because 50 million for an entire set is alot differnet to 220 million for 1 gold augment

 

[DWho]

Just now, MuskyBoy said:

because 50 million for an entire set is alot differnet to 220 million for 1 gold augment

 

OK, If I'm understanding this correctly, you want to buy the gold augments on SV because they will be cheaper and that's why you want to bring all those credits along. That would be profiting from the hyperinflation on one server to benefit you on another where inflation is lower, which they should not allow.

[FrontLineFodder]

5 minutes ago, DWho said:

Except that there is no reason you can't buy the gear on the server where you have all the credits and transfer it to the server you are going to in one or more characters inventory. That way you have gear for "future" characters and don't need to bring billions of credits along. Also, since gear is legacy bound, you can't convert it back to credits to get around the limitations.

Repair costs is really the only sticking point

yes, until the next nerfing, requiring changes to the load out on multiple classes, or new gear is realised requiring movement and rebinding of items such as augments.

you can't just Pre buy every piece of equipment you might want or need in the future.

and no, I won't choose to grind for months in the future, I did that and earned credits, and levelled up my characters and gained crafting and sold items, and played the trading game and have amassed enough credits on the servers that we were moved to when APAC servers closed. all this on the US servers with a worse experience.

Now is our chance to return to a regional server where we will play with players in our timezone doing activities together, not having lag issues for half the group.

[MuskyBoy]

Just now, DWho said:

OK, If I'm understanding this correctly, you want to buy the gold augments on SV because they will be cheaper and that's why you want to bring all those credits along. That would be profiting from the hyperinflation on one server to benefit you on another where inflation is lower, which they should not allow.

No what I want is the credits to get my companions to 50 and craft them myself. It why I said it probably should be 50 mill per toon given repair costs, crafting cost and gearing costs.

[DWho]

2 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

yes, until the next nerfing, requiring changes to the load out on multiple classes, or new gear is realised requiring movement and rebinding of items such as augments.

That would be accompanied by a new gear set which you would have to grind out per character anyway.

[FrontLineFodder]

2 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

because 50 million for an entire set is alot differnet to 220 million for 1 gold augment

yeah to be fair that won't happen, once transfers are open they will still be 220 million on SV

but I am fine with this., not because I have 100B for even a small fraction of that because it is not game breaking to have the player market set the price for items players want to sell.

[MuskyBoy]

1 minute ago, FrontLineFodder said:

yeah to be fair that won't happen, once transfers are open they will still be 220 million on SV

but I am fine with this., not because I have 100B for even a small fraction of that because it is not game breaking to have the player market set the price for items players want to sell.

Depends on how many credits the players can bring. If players can only bring 3 million per toon there is no way they will be 220 on SV.

[FrontLineFodder]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

That would be accompanied by a new gear set which you would have to grind out per character anyway.

which still cost credits, and the current gear grinding uses OP1 tokens which you get by... doing operations

for players who do ops, ops are not a grind

 

just like for players who farm credits, heroics are not a grind. though they sure are profitable.

[DWho]

2 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

which still cost credits, and the current gear grinding uses OP1 tokens which you get by... doing operations

for players who do ops, ops are not a grind

OK, so OPS players need hundreds of billions of credits so they can buy the stuff they would get from doing the content they like anyway?

I'm not understanding this argument at all. Everybody has to grind out their new gear, why should OPS players be different. I can see the argument about repair costs but not about gearing especially when you are talking about transferring credits from a server where they are extremely easy to obtain through no effort GTN trading vs a server where you have to "grind" out content to get them.

[FrontLineFodder]

Just now, DWho said:

OK, so OPS players need hundreds of billions of credits so they can buy the stuff they would get from doing the content they like anyway?

I'm not understanding this argument at all. Everybody has to grind out their new gear, why should OPS players be different. I can see the argument about repair costs but not about gearing especially when you are talking about transferring credits from a server where they are extremely easy to obtain through no effort GTN trading vs a server where you have to "grind" out content to get them.

no, established players that have already generated wealth for themselves, either via grinding, crafting or trading want to bring their credits with them to their local regional server where they intend to main their characters.

 

New players will always be behind Established players, but at the same time, New players have shortcuts that established players have had to trudge through, redo, regrind, relearn.

To level up their gear, (please allow me some lenience, this is just and example)

New player may have to spend 250M credits to go from zero to max gear, using the optimal method available today.

Established players would have actually spent 500M as they have gone through every step multiple times without the aid of shortcuts that are available to new players.

[DWho]

3 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

no, established players that have already generated wealth for themselves, either via grinding, crafting or trading want to bring their credits with them to their local regional server where they intend to main their characters.

 

New players will always be behind Established players, but at the same time, New players have shortcuts that established players have had to trudge through, redo, regrind, relearn.

To level up their gear, (please allow me some lenience, this is just and example)

New player may have to spend 250M credits to go from zero to max gear, using the optimal method available today.

Established players would have actually spent 500M as they have gone through every step multiple times without the aid of shortcuts that are available to new players.

OK, it is a "want" and not a "need" to have billions of credits. People want to have all their credits with them even though they don't need them for anything. That I can understand, I don't agree they "need" all those credits but I do understand that they "want" them (I want all my stuff on one server but I'd have to pay to do that). The issue with SV right now is that the economy is functioning without too much inflation. A massive influx of credits instantly will disrupt that economy in the same way a credit exploit would. That is why the discussion should be about how many credits you "need' rather than "want".

Moving more credits in later should be an option depending on how the economy responds, but for free transfers there should be a limit. Paid transfers shouldn't have a limit.

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, MuskyBoy said:

This is my last post responding to you. Don't take this personally, but you having no idea about anything in terms of the server economy. You don't know the costs of repairs, you don't know the cost of crafting and you don't know the cost of gearing. I'll give youj a lesson of the current state of gearing, currently if I wish to min/max gear I will be looking at around 55-60 million if I both PVE and PVP FOR ONE SPEC (not a class, a single spec) If I have have  Tank/DPS class its actually double that because each gold aug on the GTN is about 3.5 million (on SV) there are 14 augment slots 14 x 3.5 = 49 million then you have tacticals x 3 (at least) then you need augment kits 100 K x 14 and then opening the augment slots is 100 K x 14. Just off that it's 54.8 million for 1 spec, maybe you should stay in your lane and know what you are talking about.  Understand this changes for PVP because accuracy requirements change in PVP in compared with PVE so you are looking at least another 3 gold augs to min/max for PVP. 

I'm not saying gearing is not expensive. I'm saying you have already done it (it appears you have done it on multiple servers) and the Raiders complaining have already done it as well. Therefore getting credits in the name of doing something you don't need to do anymore is Frivolous and negatively impacts the players who have not yet done it. (this gear can be moved. some of yours is already on sv based on your pervious comment) As you stated it cost around 500 million on an inflated server vs 15 million on SV to get the purple gear. In order for a new APAC player to get 500 million credits on an inflated server they would have to complete 20,000 heroics vs 600 for 15 million (25.000ish credits from completing a heroic with a lv 80 toon). Credits only exist because they are farmed. Asking for 15 million credits to be moved produces the same amount of inflation that farming 600 heroics would. This task you hate spending so much time and credits on will be more difficult for a new players (once again some of those new player can be APAC players) then for you on US servers, and will shortly become more difficult for them then it was for you on SV when transfers are allowed. 

Lets say the credit limit for transfer is 15 million and you get 6 free transfer (unlikely) 15 million x 6 is 90 million. if 100 people what to use all 6 transfers and will hit the limit for each transfer that generates 9,000,000,000 credits or 360,000 heroics (If it takes 5 min to complete a heroic it would be 30,000 hours or 1,250 days of play time that's 3.4 years)

Now if we allow full transfer with its 4 billion (its actually around 4,294,817,295 but I don't want to use that number) and say 100 people want to transfer 1 toon and will hit the limit that would generates 400 billion credits or 16,000,000 heroics (if it takes 5 min to complete a heroic it would be about 1,333,333 hours or 5555.54 days of play time that's 15.22 years)

I have stated several times a raider will spend more credits on repairs then non raiding players. Creating inflation is not the correct way to address this problem. 

[FrontLineFodder]

11 minutes ago, DWho said:

OK, it is a "want" and not a "need" to have billions of credits. People want to have all their credits with them even though they don't need them for anything. That I can understand, I don't agree they "need" all those credits but I do understand that they "want" them (I want all my stuff on one server but I'd have to pay to do that). The issue with SV right now is that the economy is functioning without too much inflation. A massive influx of credits instantly will disrupt that economy in the same way a credit exploit would. That is why the discussion should be about how many credits you "need' rather than "want".

Moving more credits in later should be an option depending on how the economy responds, but for free transfers there should be a limit. Paid transfers shouldn't have a limit.

Yes, it is a player market. If new players come and buy (demand) items from the player market sellers (supply) will increase their prices as they see fit

it will grow as much as buyers are willing and able to afford .

i do not see how this breaks the game personally.

[MuskyBoy]

10 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

I'm not saying gearing is not expensive. I'm saying you have already done it (it appears you have done it on multiple servers) and the Raiders complaining have already done it as well. Therefore getting credits in the name of doing something you don't need to do anymore is Frivolous and negatively impacts the players who have not yet done it. (this gear can be moved. some of yours is already on sv based on your pervious comment) As you stated it cost around 500 million on an inflated server vs 15 million on SV to get the purple gear. In order for a new APAC player to get 500 million credits on an inflated server they would have to complete 20,000 heroics vs 600 for 15 million (25.000ish credits from completing a heroic with a lv 80 toon). Credits only exist because they are farmed. Asking for 15 million credits to be moved produces the same amount of inflation that farming 600 heroics would. This task you hate spending so much time and credits on will be more difficult for a new players (once again some of those new player can be APAC players) then for you on US servers, and will shortly become more difficult for them then it was for you on SV when transfers are allowed. 

Lets say the credit limit for transfer is 15 million and you get 6 free transfer (unlikely) 15 million x 6 is 90 million. if 100 people what to use all 6 transfers and will hit the limit for each transfer that generates 9,000,000,000 credits or 360,000 heroics (If it takes 5 min to complete a heroic it would be 30,000 hours or 1,250 days of play time that's 3.4 years)

Now if we allow full transfer with its 4 billion (its actually around 4,294,817,295 but I don't want to use that number) and say 100 people want to transfer 1 toon and will hit the limit that would generates 400 billion credits or 16,000,000 heroics (if it takes 5 min to complete a heroic it would be about 1,333,333 hours or 5555.54 days of play time that's 15.22 years)

I have stated several times a raider will spend more credits on repairs then non raiding players. Creating inflation is not the correct way to address this problem. 

Against my better judgement I'll respond, I have stated clearly with actual figures the costs involved in gearing, crafting and repairing and at no point have I ever said billions in transfer credits, my figure was 6 toons with 20 million credits per toon being the absolute lowest and 50 million probably a fairer number, at no point have you countered any of my credit costs so you are taking numbers as factual, if that is so then you will realise that most of that 50 million credits will disappear quickly from either/all of crafting, gearing and repairs. To gear in purple augs by your numbers takes about 600 heroic missions to complete, who honestly can say doing 600 heroic missions is fun? But to gear in gold augs takes 4 x that (currently) so who wants to grind 2400 heroics? Then you have the audacity to say players aren't really committed because they don't want to "grind" and "but the poor new players", show me any new player who wants to grind that?. Like I said before you know nothing about the server economy.

[DWho]

12 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

Yes, it is a player market. If new players come and buy (demand) items from the player market sellers (supply) will increase their prices as they see fit

The point of the control Broadsword is placing on the server is to limit the rise to a rate comparable to the rate at which credits are generated in the game (selling stuff on the GTN does not generate credits, it merely accumulates them from others which controls costs if there are not excessive numbers of credits in the server economy). So the instantaneous influx has a negative effect on the economy. I still think that no more than 250 miillion per legacy (account) is a reasonable amount that won't have too much of a negative effect on the economy and still allows everyone substantial purchasing power to play the market with.

If you want players to keep playing the game you need to have something for them to strive for and if they see they have no chance to buy anything on the GTN because the prices have skyrocketed, they will at best unsub and at worst just leave the game.

[AFadedMemory]

24 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

Against my better judgement I'll respond, I have stated clearly with actual figures the costs involved in gearing, crafting and repairing and at no point have I ever said billions in transfer credits

I have not said you are wanting billions for each transfers. I was using those figures to show how much credits would theoretically be moved with a low and high credit limit.

 

24 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

at no point have you countered any of my credit costs so you are taking numbers as factual, if that is so then you will realise that most of that 50 million credits will disappear quickly from either/all of crafting, gearing and repairs.

Your right, I took your word for it. Guess it isn't worth much. Should I disregard this to? 

24 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

I have stated clearly with actual figures the costs involved in gearing, crafting and repairing

 

25 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

To gear in purple augs by your numbers takes about 600 heroic missions to complete

it's actually your numbers:

4 hours ago, MuskyBoy said:

That 15 million was on SV it would have been 500 million on an American server

 

27 minutes ago, MuskyBoy said:

who honestly can say doing 600 heroic missions is fun? But to gear in gold augs takes 4 x that (currently) so who wants to grind 2400 heroics? Then you have the audacity to say players aren't really committed because they don't want to "grind" and "but the poor new players", show me any new player who wants to grind that?. Like I said before you know nothing about the server economy.

I agree grinding hundreds or thousands of heroics is not fun. That's why I want a credit limit to prevent inflation that generates products that would required 15 million credits to make or buy. (600 heroic would generate about 15 million if the only credits calculated were the reward amount given to lv 80 toons. if you factor in loot and the credit/gear crate it would be more then 15 million, though don't know how much more)