Coming 7.4 GTN changes on the PTS

[Cirran]

I personally like what I am seeing. If anything there should be a posting fee and a tax for buying off the GTN, trading or selling via mail or character to character.

 

Cirran

[JakRoanin]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It would kill the game over night as the majority of players abandoned the game in disgust. 

Honestly, abandoning the game over fake money makes no sense to me. Abandoning because you don't like the gameplay, story, and such makes sense, but because of credits! Really? That makes no sense. No matter what happens if you play the game you will make credits.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

Honestly, abandoning the game over fake money makes no sense to me. Abandoning because you don't like the gameplay, story, and such makes sense, but because of credits! Really? That makes no sense. No matter what happens if you play the game you will make credits.

It’s already been explained by another. But I guess you missed it. There are plenty of players who’ve spent Real Money converting CM items into credits. They would lose ALL of those players who prop up the game with CM purchases. 

[Spikanor]

12 hours ago, psikofunkster said:

They should reset all the credits to 0, also they should sell those old exclusive rewards like the master crest on GTN for Cartel Coins.

From that point generate new content under BS wing and everybody enjoy the game again and be happy. 😊

A  new begining...a new hope...

if you do that you compleet crash the economy in the game for good and you never ever get it fix anymore.

so your idea is only destroying the game for good and nobody is happy about that part.

[JakRoanin]

10 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It’s already been explained by another. But I guess you missed it. There are plenty of players who’ve spent Real Money converting CM items into credits. They would lose ALL of those players who prop up the game with CM purchases. 

I did miss it, and I apologize if I offended. However, I have to admit I don't understand why players would spend more real money on the game for its fake currency. Do they really need so much? If so, why? And now with GS giving cartel packs is it even necessary?

[psikofunkster]

11 hours ago, Spikanor said:

if you do that you compleet crash the economy in the game for good and you never ever get it fix anymore.

so your idea is only destroying the game for good and nobody is happy about that part.

You are wrong. It would be a new beginning just like BS development.

[psikofunkster]

21 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It would kill the game over night as the majority of players abandoned the game in disgust. 

At this point only the royal ones remain so i don't see a problem. They're  gonna support the game doesn't matter what.

 

But it was only a suggetion i mean...

Edited November 5, 2023 by psikofunkster

[Darcmoon]

25 minutes ago, psikofunkster said:

At this point only the royal ones remain so i don't see a problem. They're  gonna support the game doesn't matter what.

 

But it was only a suggetion i mean...

I'm one of those who is still supporting this game but if they wiped all my credits like you suggested, I would quit in a heartbeat.  

[JakRoanin]

But you can always get them back! Which is why I don't understand why anyone would waste real cash just to get them.

[Spikanor]

1 hour ago, psikofunkster said:

You are wrong. It would be a new beginning just like BS development.

 

you are compleet wrong since you not understand at all the damage you creat with your idea at all.

then please also tell how people need to make credits again since alot of things cost now credits like quick travel and stuff like that.

 

[Darkestmonty]

9 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

But you can always get them back! Which is why I don't understand why anyone would waste real cash just to get them.

you just spent 500 dollars buying Hypercrates. You spent a week converting those hypercrates to credits to support your guilds, friends, buying mods.

Before you spend all your credits, you log on and notice the devs have deleted all your credits.

Are you going to be fine losing all the credits you just earned from the 500 dollars worth of hypercrates you just bought?

It's fine if you are, most of us will chargeback that 500 dollars and quit SWTOR for good. It's fine if our accounts also get banned, if I can't trust a company to handle inflation without deleting all credits, that game is going to crash and burn from bad management.

[JakRoanin]

Okay I'm not the one saying nuke the credits now, I did that years ago and never again. But I still can't understand why anyone would spend real money on Hypercrates and such...

[DragoslavRadanov]

19 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

Okay I'm not the one saying nuke the credits now, I did that years ago and never again. But I still can't understand why anyone would spend real money on Hypercrates and such...

Three reasons: 1. They want to expand their collections to make outfits regardless of what they get from it. 2. If your luck/rng is good you can get items that overall add together to more than the 5400 CC cost of the hypercrate, thus being cheaper than buying all the items individually. 3. If you get duplicates of something you already have you can sell or gift them to friends/guildmates/random people, or offer them as prizes in raffles/for earning high conquest (if in a conquest focused guild). Also, and most importantly, it's their money and they can spend it however they like.

[TrixxieTriss]

3 hours ago, psikofunkster said:

You are wrong. It would be a new beginning just like BS development.

The only people who want to wipe out credits are the ones with no credits like you. 

Ask anyone else who has a substantial amount of credits if they would stay if Broadsword wiped them to zero & they’ll nearly all tell you they’d quit the game. 

And I can guarantee there are more people playing with credits than ones like you with no credits. And many have spent real money on the CM market or have done so in the past. 

But sure, let’s piss off the overwhelming majority of the player base just to suit the few players like yourself who have no credits. That would work out real great for the game /s 🤦‍♀️

Edited November 5, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

But I still can't understand why anyone would spend real money on Hypercrates and such...

But many, many, many people do. Not just in this game, but in lots of games. It is why cash shops are such a big part of the industry now. It’s why they are actually surpassing subscription funding models in lots of games now. 

As an example. I play Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes. It’s a F2P game on your phone, tablet or PC. It has way more players than swtor has had in the last 5 years. Sure you can play for free like I do, but it takes years & years to build up your character roster to a level you can play proper end game with.

But it also has a P2Win pathway too. Which is really expensive. I’m talking $100’s a month & even then it will take a few years to get what you need. I’ve actually been in guilds in SWGOH where members have spend thousands & thousands of real money just to get up to my level of playing free. Personally, I think it’s a waste. But they obviously have the real money to waste. But the game wouldn’t operate or get any new content without these people paying. Which is no different to this game. 

EA, BioWare & now Broadsword make way more money from the Cartel Market than they do from Subscribers. Without people buying hypercrates or buying stuff directly from the CM with real cash, this game would have be shuttered several years ago. 

If you think I’m wrong, read some insider articles or research papers on gaming industry monetisation & you’ll discover that I’m actually understating how much of the industry is funded this way. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[xordevoreaux]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:14 AM, Spikanor said:

like in any MMO you play for the first time you have that type of problems that you cant buy a lot of things at the same time that also counts for skills.

Do not lump all MMOs together believing they all work the same or approach issues exactly the same way.

In Evequest 2, your skills just pop onto your hotbar when you level. Granted, they're the lowest grade of that particular skill, but the player didn't pay for them, and they're immediately available for use. In that game, the currency for upgrading to a higher version of that ability is time. At level 20 (there are over a hundred levels) the player can choose to "cook" a single skill over time and then it's awarded when complete.

A player can also upgrade through mob drops of higher abilities or craft them. 
In all cases for that game, a completely different scenario than SWTOR.

[Spikanor]

5 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

Do not lump all MMOs together believing they all work the same or approach issues exactly the same way.

In Evequest 2, your skills just pop onto your hotbar when you level. Granted, they're the lowest grade of that particular skill, but the player didn't pay for them, and they're immediately available for use. In that game, the currency for upgrading to a higher version of that ability is time. At level 20 (there are over a hundred levels) the player can choose to "cook" a single skill over time and then it's awarded when complete.

A player can also upgrade through mob drops of higher abilities or craft them. 
In all cases for that game, a completely different scenario than SWTOR.

the general point i mean with that is when you are compleet new to a MMO you need to make a lot of diffrend choose where you spent your in the game money on all is it on hp potion's and mana potions.

thats compleet diffrend in this game since a new player not have to spent credits on a lot of things from the start at all since focus on good gear is pointless since the enemy's have become to easy. your companion you get later is a walking medic droid so you not need to spent you credits on medic packs. skills you get automatic for free so thats also a other point you not have to focus on.

but i have no problem to have a good discusion with you on this point on a other thread if you like it.

[JakRoanin]

17 hours ago, DragoslavRadanov said:

Three reasons: 1. They want to expand their collections to make outfits regardless of what they get from it. 2. If your luck/rng is good you can get items that overall add together to more than the 5400 CC cost of the hypercrate, thus being cheaper than buying all the items individually. 3. If you get duplicates of something you already have you can sell or gift them to friends/guildmates/random people, or offer them as prizes in raffles/for earning high conquest (if in a conquest focused guild). Also, and most importantly, it's their money and they can spend it however they like.

 

17 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

But many, many, many people do. Not just in this game, but in lots of games. It is why cash shops are such a big part of the industry now. It’s why they are actually surpassing subscription funding models in lots of games now. 

As an example. I play Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes. It’s a F2P game on your phone, tablet or PC. It has way more players than swtor has had in the last 5 years. Sure you can play for free like I do, but it takes years & years to build up your character roster to a level you can play proper end game with.

But it also has a P2Win pathway too. Which is really expensive. I’m talking $100’s a month & even then it will take a few years to get what you need. I’ve actually been in guilds in SWGOH where members have spend thousands & thousands of real money just to get up to my level of playing free. Personally, I think it’s a waste. But they obviously have the real money to waste. But the game wouldn’t operate or get any new content without these people paying. Which is no different to this game. 

EA, BioWare & now Broadsword make way more money from the Cartel Market than they do from Subscribers. Without people buying hypercrates or buying stuff directly from the CM with real cash, this game would have be shuttered several years ago. 

If you think I’m wrong, read some insider articles or research papers on gaming industry monetisation & you’ll discover that I’m actually understating how much of the industry is funded this way. 

Okay, I'm not saying that I don't believe any of this. I merely don't understand the concept of spending hundreds or thousands of on the CM. I don't understand higher math theory but I know it's real.

[DreadzKaiser]

Much as I'd like a backlash-free credit reset, it'd never happen and I hope that wasn't a serious suggestion.

though I'm now imagining The Senate/Dark council making an announcement and saying that your toon owes like 10 years of taxes to justify a mass credit delete in-universe....

if they did that right now, all my toons would have to use the Emergency fleet pass to go to the fleet and either grind a few flashpoints or take the starter/capital world shuttle and go kill stuff for trash to turn into cash before I could even pay the fuel fee to go to anything relevant.

on the other hand, some madman hoarding the 25k credit vouchers is suddenly living it up.

Curbing inflation requires credit sinks and they need to be implemented smartly or they will just make stuff inaccessible for new players.

BioSwords generally been heading in the right direction but should add more to target more endgame stuff. add a Guild tax and up the price to use the summon or other features.

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

 

Okay, I'm not saying that I don't believe any of this. I merely don't understand the concept of spending hundreds or thousands of on the CM. I don't understand higher math theory but I know it's real.

Predatory market practices 101.

it's pretty easy to justify spending a crapload of money on stuff like this if you are actually having fun.

it's a lot easier to convince someone to charge a credit card than it is to physically hand over the same amount of money. There's a difference between a wad of cash and a number on a balance sheet.

some people just have some disposable income too. I certainly used to back when I had a job but no real expenses to put that income towards. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by DreadzKaiser

[JakRoanin]

I'm not sure it's just predatory market practices though... The only reason I say this is because it is so easy to earn credits just running through a few dailies can net reasonable numbers. Running heroics with all bonuses, and selling your trash loot can grant a million easy. I think a huge problem is the view of what is considered 'real credits' is. I have 53 mil right now, and that's considered poor! That's crazy! What bothers me about this debate is that people seem to think that unless people have at least 100,000,000 you "have no credits" is off to me.

[arunav]

21 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

It's fine if you are, most of us will chargeback that 500 dollars and quit SWTOR for good. It's fine if our accounts also get banned, if I can't trust a company to handle inflation without deleting all credits, that game is going to crash and burn from bad management.

But isn't that what's happening on the PTS version of the GTN for buyers, particularly of expensive items? 

Currently, when new CM items are released, for at least the first month, they typically sell for well above 1 billion, especially armor sets, which can go all the way up to 3 billion, or slightly under the cap.

If a buyer is taxed several hundreds million credits now, on top of that, isn't BS just deleting the credits of wealthy players, albiet slowly? In a way that's slightly harder to object to?

Trading-focused players, veteran ones, have accumulated many billions of credits from simply playing the game. The ones I know are at or near the legacy bank credit cap. Those credits, earned through time spent playing SWTOR, are arguably more valuable psychologically than buying a few hypercrates and flipping them - they cost time. Cumulatively, a lot of time. 

I suspect BS is under the impression one of the ways to attack persistent inflation is to remove a significant chunk of the credits veteran players hold via a buyer tax. With prices coming down across the board since earlier this year, it's already harder to make credits back after buying expensive items off the GTN, and requiring a substantial tax on high-priced items, those in demand, may finally make credit balances go down instead of up for a portion of the wealthiest players. 

Still, I think it's worth noting this is still a targeted deletion of credits. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by arunav

[Darkestmonty]

32 minutes ago, arunav said:

But isn't that what's happening on the PTS version of the GTN for buyers, particularly of expensive items? 

Currently, when new CM items are released, for at least the first month, they typically sell for well above 1 billion, especially armor sets, which can go all the way up to 3 billion, or slightly under the cap.

If a buyer is taxed several hundreds million credits now, on top of that, isn't BS just deleting the credits of wealthy players, albiet slowly? In a way that's slightly harder to object to?

Trading-focused players, veteran ones, have accumulated many billions of credits from simply playing the game. The ones I know are at or near the legacy bank credit cap. Those credits, earned through time spent playing SWTOR, are arguably more valuable psychologically than buying a few hypercrates and flipping them - they cost time. Cumulatively, a lot of time. 

I suspect BS is under the impression one of the ways to attack persistent inflation is to remove a significant chunk of the credits veteran players hold via a buyer tax. With prices coming down across the board since earlier this year, it's already harder to make credits back after buying expensive items off the GTN, and requiring a substantial tax on high-priced items, those in demand, may finally make credit balances go down instead of up for a portion of the wealthiest players. 

Still, I think it's worth noting this is still a targeted deletion of credits. 

sellers only pay the posting fee.

If I sell a 3 billion credit item with the current 8% GTN tax I lose 240 million credits when it sells but I get to the 200 credits refunded.

If I sell a 3 billion credit on the GTN in 7.4, I lose a posting fee of 10,000 credits to 250,000 credits but pay no taxes.

The buyer on the other hand is stuck paying 14.95% tax on the 3 billion credit sale.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[arunav]

21 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

sellers only pay the posting fee.

If I sell a 3 billion credit item with the current 8% GTN tax I lose 240 million credits when it sells but I get to the 200 credits refunded.

If I sell a 3 billion credit on the GTN in 7.4, I lose a posting fee of 10,000 credits to 250,000 credits but pay no taxes.

The buyer on the other hand is stuck paying 14.95% tax on the 3 billion credit sale.

Did you even read by post? Only the last sentence of your reply has anything to do with what I wrote. 

[DreadzKaiser]

27 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

sellers only pay the posting fee.

If I sell a 3 billion credit item with the current 8% GTN tax I lose 240 million credits when it sells but I get to the 200 credits refunded.

If I sell a 3 billion credit on the GTN in 7.4, I lose a posting fee of 10,000 credits to 250,000 credits but pay no taxes.

The buyer on the other hand is stuck paying 14.95% tax on the 3 billion credit sale.

 

If I post something on the GTN with a buyout price of 3 bill right now, I lose 240 mil in tax automatically deducted.
If I post something on the GTN with a buyout price of 3 bill in 7.4, I lose the posting fee and I lose like .4 billion because some of that 3B buyout price is includes the tax that is not going to my wallet by the end of this transaction.

the only difference is when the tax is paid and how visible it is to the buyer. a chunk of the money that was going to the seller is still getting taxed. Doesn't look to me like the tax was shifted to the buyer because you are going to have to adjust the price to compensate if you want to stay competitive.

[Darkestmonty]

54 minutes ago, DreadzKaiser said:

 

If I post something on the GTN with a buyout price of 3 bill right now, I lose 240 mil in tax automatically deducted.
If I post something on the GTN with a buyout price of 3 bill in 7.4, I lose the posting fee and I lose like .4 billion because some of that 3B buyout price is includes the tax that is not going to my wallet by the end of this transaction.

the only difference is when the tax is paid and how visible it is to the buyer. a chunk of the money that was going to the seller is still getting taxed. Doesn't look to me like the tax was shifted to the buyer because you are going to have to adjust the price to compensate if you want to stay competitive.

you aren't losing 447 million on a 3 billion GTN sale in 7.4 because you can't sell anything above 3 billion on the GTN.

But you are free to trade that item to another player directly for 3.447 billion, pay about 8% in trade fees while the buyer also pays 8% additional taxes.

I'm sure the buyer doesn't mind paying an additional 278 million on top of the 3.477 billion they are already paying because you feel you deserve the GTN tax they would have paid buying off the GTN.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Darkestmonty