AI generated voices for companions ...

[OlBuzzard]

13 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Maybe to people with not "taste" as in how I can't tell the difference of a $100 audio set from a $10000 one.

Well  ... if the AI were programmed properly, it could sense the correct settings.  But you did touch on one word that AI can't reproduce today (IIRC) ... TASTE !

I love good Mexican / Oriental and certain Southern US foods done a certain way!  (Just my personal preferences) 

Telling a droid to not screw up a good steak .. or perhaps not to over-do the jalapeños in my burritos (or red chili peppers) !!!  HELLO ???  yeah .. good luck with that!

Yeah ..  AI definitely has its limitations.  

But still ... IMO there is already a good possibility for the applications of AI in parts of a game!  Maybe not in it's entirety (not yet at least) ... BUT DEFINATELY a coming thing!  Just stop and think about the total lack of companion interactions we've seen in the last (how many) YEARS!  All due to expense.  Soooo ... (for those who are into that sort of thing) ... this might be a welcomed change (???) maybe?

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by OlBuzzard
clarification

[OlBuzzard]

1 hour ago, JakRoanin said:

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. That's my last thought.

That's ashamed that it's your last thought on this!  As the simple fact is that the truth is often a 3 edged sword ..  two sides of an issue .. then the actual facts that affect both!

[JakRoanin]

I just don't have any more to say. I understand that AI has a place in various fields of profession but this strike of writers and actors shows that the consequences might be devestating.

[OlBuzzard]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:36 PM, JakRoanin said:

You do realize that a major reason the Actors are striking is because they want to be protected for unauthorized use of their voice and likenesses by AI and frankly I think it's a valid concern. They have a right to make a living.

UNAUTHORIZED or misuse of anyone's likeness and or voice in production is exactly that ... UNAUTHORIZED.... and should be dealt with accordingly!

BUT ... as far as I can tell this not what OP was illuding to nor implicating.  I don't think any of us would appreciate someone's likeness or rightful claim to appropriate income being taken away from them.  I know what it was like to be the one doing the actual purchasing when someone else was getting paid TWICE what I was (and was totally clueless).  I've been there first hand.  NOT any fun!

That is also one of the reasons I've particular about mentioning that it would only apply in cases where it was new material / characters ... etc where the aforementioned technology could used without infringing on someone's already established VA contracts or right to receive proper compensation.

[denavin]

23 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

It's the studio time, recording time, editing etc etc. This can all be eliminated by using AI. 

In this one comment alone, you have put a few hundred people out of work.

[OlBuzzard]

26 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I just don't have any more to say. I understand that AI has a place in various fields of profession but this strike of writers and actors shows that the consequences might be devestating.

IMO it would only be devastating if everyone sticks their head in the sand and ignore the rights / facts / and distinctive characteristics of intellectual ownership / unique qualities of the individual performances and true acting achievements in the industry.  In short .. both sides need to see the big picture and appreciate the humanity of what is actually happening.  Otherwise .. to some degree you could be correct.

[OlBuzzard]

2 minutes ago, denavin said:

In this one comment alone, you have put a few hundred people out of work.

So much of so many industries has changed over the years.  In areas of inventory control / shipping / agriculture / transportation / communication and YES especially computer technology alone.

The industry is changing.  IMO this is why it so important to receive a well-rounded education.. and to be able to be as flexible as possible in our changing world.  I did not go to college to become a purchasing director.  In fact I stated in the company that I retired from as a sales / inventory CLERK !!  Not a manager of any sort.  I had to grow with the company and learn additional skills AND begin to understand an industry that required a working knowledge of construction / plumbing (these guys have a language barrier of their own) ... basic electrical systems and a couple others.  

Watching stuff change is amazing.  In fact, one of the companies that we were distantly associated with refused to make some changes in their method of production of their equipment.  They went bankrupt and completely out of business as a result of NOT making changes and keeping up with the technology of that time.

[TonyTricicolo]

6 minutes ago, denavin said:

In this one comment alone, you have put a few hundred people out of work.

Now that is stretching it a bit. Strikeprice ain't putting anyone out of work. Managers of companies will always choose to cut costs to make a profit. It's simple math and if they want to stay competitive they will use AI because of the efficiency.

[JakRoanin]

28 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

IMO it would only be devastating if everyone sticks their head in the sand and ignore the rights / facts / and distinctive characteristics of intellectual ownership / unique qualities of the individual performances and true acting achievements in the industry.  In short .. both sides need to see the big picture and appreciate the humanity of what is actually happening.  Otherwise .. to some degree you could be correct.

You're right, but look at what has happened with the industrialized food industry has done? Much of the advancement started with good intentions but now it's ruining the health of humanity and the planet! AI can do much the same thing in every field.

[Cirran]

I am of the opinion this can not happen fast enough. I look forward to the positive impact this will have. Not just in the acting world but other places. For example game development. Like movie studios/actors/VAs, the vast majority of game development studios and their employees are of a certain pollical stripe and are located in areas that are of the same political stripe. With AI developing games, I can see were those who are not of this political stripe will have tools to sidestep the issues in current time game development. 

Will there be human created issues? Absolutely, but like so many other things that have been the "next big thing" those will be worked out. I am eagerly curious on how many of these human created issues will be resolved.

 

Cirran

[OlBuzzard]

6 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

You're right, but look at what has happened with the industrialized food industry has done? Much of the advancement started with good intentions but now it's ruining the health of humanity and the planet! AI can do much the same thing in every field.

Both yes ... and no!  Please review the history of the dust bowl days in the US vs the many VERY positive advancements of much better land / farming / agricultural management today.

BTW.. it should be noted that I abhore the massive strip mining used today in order to glean the scarce element used in the mass production of lithium batteries! 

Technology is not always the right answer!

[TziganeNZ]

27 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Watching stuff change is amazing.  In fact, one of the companies that we were distantly associated with refused to make some changes in their method of production of their equipment.  They went bankrupt and completely out of business as a result of NOT making changes and keeping up with the technology of that time.

The world is changing, and changing rapidly.  Technological innovation will mean that the way we used to do things will no longer be viable, and changes are coming faster than ever before.  Can anyone remember telexes?  They were the precursor to fax machines.  Who uses fax machines now? We now have email.  Bet you dollars to donuts that there will be something in the works that will take over from email and make it look as clunky and slow as telexes.....what that could be at this point, I haven't a clue - but I bet you it is coming.  Look at how the world was in 1900 compared to how it is now - a mere 123 years later.  Change happens.

The greatest ability the human race has is its ability to adapt quickly to change. To pivot. It's Darwin's law of evolution in action - adapt or be left behind.

Am I saying that AI is the next best thing to sliced bread? No. I completely understand the ethical and moral implications. How these will be addressed will be interesting to see, especially as the technology is so new right now.  When cars were invented, there were strict rules around use and ownership.  People were scared of the metal horses (all they knew to compare them with), so rules were put in place.  It has been the same ever since.

Actors are definitely high on the list of 'professions' that will be negatively affected by AI. It's then on the actors to pivot, and set up an agreement for licensing the use of their image and voice to provide an income.  Likewise, it will be up to the rest of us to pivot with the use of the technology.  The genie is out of the bottle - we now need to deal with it.

[JakRoanin]

11 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

Both yes ... and no!  Please review the history of the dust bowl days in the US vs the many VERY positive advancements of much better land / farming / agricultural management today.

BTW.. it should be noted that I abhore the massive strip mining used today in order to glean the scarce element used in the mass production of lithium batteries! 

Technology is not always the right answer!

I am aware of the history of the "Dust Bowl" and that is why I said that modern agriculture began with good intentions, but what is happening now, is still a massive environmental and health crisis. AI is ethically tricky and I don't want to see it toss out the jobs of all the VA's in this game. 

[OlBuzzard]

8 minutes ago, TziganeNZ said:

The world is changing, and changing rapidly.  Technological innovation will mean that the way we used to do things will no longer be viable, and changes are coming faster than ever before.  Can anyone remember telexes?  They were the precursor to fax machines.  Who uses fax machines now? We now have email.  Bet you dollars to donuts that there will be something in the works that will take over from email and make it look as clunky and slow as telexes.....what that could be at this point, I haven't a clue - but I bet you it is coming.  Look at how the world was in 1900 compared to how it is now - a mere 123 years later.  Change happens.

The greatest ability the human race has is its ability to adapt quickly to change. To pivot. It's Darwin's law of evolution in action - adapt or be left behind.

Am I saying that AI is the next best thing to sliced bread? No. I completely understand the ethical and moral implications. How these will be addressed will be interesting to see, especially as the technology is so new right now.  When cars were invented, there were strict rules around use and ownership.  People were scared of the metal horses (all they knew to compare them with), so rules were put in place.  It has been the same ever since.

Actors are definitely high on the list of 'professions' that will be negatively affected by AI. It's then on the actors to pivot, and set up an agreement for licensing the use of their image and voice to provide an income.  Likewise, it will be up to the rest of us to pivot with the use of the technology.  The genie is out of the bottle - we now need to deal with it.

Exactly!  The writers strike can be seen as a devastating blow .. or perhaps (if those that are directly involved) one of the many steps needed to help shape the future in a more positive manner for everyone.  Sure those that are affected the most are taking some aggressive steps.  That is all too often what is necessary!  Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and both sides can come to a reasonable understanding.

The old movie I-Robot was one such example of technology and how it had created a new problem to deal with. (Hard to believe that was 20 years ago!)

[OlBuzzard]

9 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

I am aware of the history of the "Dust Bowl" and that is why I said that modern agriculture began with good intentions, but what is happening now, is still a massive environmental and health crisis. AI is ethically tricky and I don't want to see it toss out the jobs of all the VA's in this game. 

ALL of the VA in this game.  NO!  A LOT of them.  Possibly.  New characters?  Depends!

[TziganeNZ]

Change is very scary for a lot of people.  I totally understand that. But not changing is not an option either.

 

[OlBuzzard]

8 minutes ago, TziganeNZ said:

Change is very scary for a lot of people.  I totally understand that. But not changing is not an option either.

 

Agreed.  Change is not something to be ignored.  Doing so will simply leave it in the hands of ..well ... whomever! (And I don't always trust leaving things in the hands of just anyone) !  Fighting said transformations can often be counterproductive.  Exercising caution, on the other hand, is sometimes a good thing.  And when necessary, there is nothing wrong with protecting the livelihood of those who can directly affected the most.  

[JakRoanin]

Again I'm not totally against it. New characters are acceptable AI possibilities, also I have said that AI has a place in every profession, but it's also dangerous tech.

[OlBuzzard]

Just now, JakRoanin said:

Again I'm not totally against it. New characters are acceptable AI possibilities, also I have said that AI has a place in every profession, but it's also dangerous tech.

In a recent interview on Disney + IIRC Jon Favreau stated clearly that the use of current technologies in story telling was one that had to be used carefully and responsibly.

Advancement in this area should always be tempered with a degree of responsibility and caution.  IMO another 10 - 15 years from now and there will be yet another area where a good hard look at technology and how it is being used will be discussed.  

Discussion is good.  Hiding our heads in the sand is not!  Never be afraid to discuss our responsibility to humanity and how these things shape our lives.  I know ..  I'm a bit of an odd duck (OK ... and Ol Buzzard ... but you get the idea) !  I guess I just see stuff a little differently.  And frankly ... sometimes that gets me into trouble.  On the other hand ...  I have to try!

[JakRoanin]

I don't necessarily disagree with your views I'm just very cautious by nature. I see the good and bad of this new tech, but ultimately come down on the side of people over profit.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

8 hours ago, TonyTricicolo said:

Humorously relevant, 

While making the prequel trilogies, George Lucas mentioned that if he had his way he make all his movies digital. 

You're quite right, I remember that.

And as I mentioned earlier, Lucas in an interview said he couldn't afford to pay the actors from the movies to do the voices of those same characters on his Clone Wars series so he had to to hire other people to do those voices, instead of the original people.

So why aren’t a lot of the actors who made the roles famous returning?

George Lucas - "When we decided to do the feature, we went back to the actors and said, 'Look, we're doing a feature. Would you like to do the voice? Could you come in a month?' Some of them were all over the world. It was hard to get all the actors that would be off on set," Lucas told reporters at a press conference last week. "You need people available every week. [Also] you can't really afford multi-million dollar actors to do a television series. Those guys make more during their coffee break."

George Lucas Explains Why Familar Voices Won't Return For 'Clone Wars' MTV.com, 2008

............................................................................

Point being, sometimes things are cost prohibitive and in such cases you have to find other means in order to get done what you want to get done.

If the game simply can't afford to pay the voice actors because it doesn't have the resources for it, it's unfortunate, but you can't let the game die because it's may effect the voice actors bank accounts.

In the case of the game, the other options are AI voices or text based dialogue. Either way, the voice actors aren't going to get paid, so you might as well go with the AI over the text based option because the text based option doesn't sit well with most players.

It's like any other business when finances become problematic, in an effort to save the business, sometimes they have to make some cuts and sometimes, as unfortunate as it may be, those cuts can involve workers getting laid off.

Edited July 16, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

6 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I just don't have any more to say. I understand that AI has a place in various fields of profession but this strike of writers and actors shows that the consequences might be devestating.

You might very well be correct in that.

The problem is that money and morality have never gone hand in hand.

Money is the root of much evil that is done.

[JakRoanin]

The LOVE of money is the problem not money itself. When profit comes before people everyone loses. If the dominos fall in Hollywood its the not Tom Cruises who will be squished, its the Jennifer Hales and Troy Bakers, its the makeup artists, writers, techs, and craft services, money will drain out of the economy.

[OlBuzzard]

4 minutes ago, JakRoanin said:

The LOVE of money is the problem not money itself. When profit comes before people everyone loses. If the dominos fall in Hollywood its the not Tom Cruises who will be squished, its the Jennifer Hales and Troy Bakers, its the makeup artists, writers, techs, and craft services, money will drain out of the economy.

Only partially correct!  

People like Tom Cruise actually care for those who are working with him.  A LOT of others don't.  Just because someone has a lot of money shouldn't paint a bullseye on their back!

The obsessed greed of the industry in general is what hurts the end users (like us) as well as those who are just trying to make an honest living.  (Just take a look at some of the discussions regarding the profits from this game).  

And yes ... you are correct that it is the LOVE of money.  Money in and of itself is a useful tool.  Greed ... that's another matter.

Also: makeup artists aren't needed for VA.

ALSO:  as far as speculation is concerned:  We frown upon those who have suggested that the end of SWTOR is at hand due to the upcoming changes.  And just how different are we in our conclusions over the changes in technology and the creation of characters for a MMO?

IMO all of it has to be tempered with patience ...and discussions just like what we are doing right now.  Leaving things to chance would be a grave error!  AND YES .. so is watching out for those who are just trying to make a living.

OP still has a valid point.  And yes ... the industry is changing.

[JakRoanin]

Grrr. Tom Cruise was only an example. And for the final time I am not saying No AI! I'm saying I see all possibilities. Did you forget I'm all for owning a KITT?