Can we get free transfers off dead servers please?

[TziganeNZ]

14 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Names:

I have lost nearly ever character name I had since starting on day one of release. The only character names I retained were idiotic names from the random name generator and I lost quit a few of those.

 

So? Your experience does not invalidate or take precedence over mine. You may be ok with losing names, I am not.

15 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

I don't feel that any of our character names are more important than the over all health of the game.

This is pure opinion. Your opinion, to be exact. Others may not agree (and don't, to judge by the others posters in this thread).

17 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Sure, SWTOR could still have 209 servers, we could all still have our original characters names, but we would also be on servers with an active population so low that group content is impossible. Would you rather log on every day to your character with it's original name on a completely empty server and talk with Frank who is the only other person on fleet because he's a bot selling credits or take the chance at a rename but be on a server where you can take part in group content? Server merges are a must to keep the games population healthy and keep group content viable as populations drop.

I solo only. I do not play ANY group content. I certainly do NOT 'chat' to randos on fleet. I do not use the GTN nor am I in the slightest bit interested in playing 'space Barbie'.  Server merges, as have been explained to you previously, are most certainly NOT a must to keep the game healthy - going down to a single NA server would mean the death knell of the game (for reasons that have been previously explained to you).  Group content is not the be-all and end-all of playstyles.  If people are not grouping on their original servers now, they won't group if the servers are merged.  Assuming they stay with the game.

21 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

Character Slot:

The only people worried about losing character slots are those who play multiple servers. If you are worried about losing character slots, the solution is very simple. Fill those slots before a merger. Complaining about losing character slots on servers you don't play is nonsensical and refusing to take steps to ensure you don't lose precious character slots you want to retain is lazy.

Even after a merge where a player is pushed beyond their normal character count per server, all characters can still played normally. The only issue that has come up is when there are more characters on a server than character slots. Players who have more characters than character slots won't be able to make new character until they fall below there character slot limit for that server. Buy more slots, start deleting, or live with the fact that you now have more characters on a server than you should.

I have around 75 characters across 4 servers.  I doubt very much that I am one of a small set of players.  I also do not appreciate being called 'lazy' or having the character limits issues 'mansplained' to me.  I am very well aware of the server limits, thank you.  Do not presume to tell me how to manage my account.  It is arrogant.

25 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

We all have to make choices. I chose to abandon Satele Shan last year to make Star Forge my primary server because I couldn't ignore how low the population was getting.

I'm happy for you. The interesting word in this section is "CHOSE". You chose. Yet you seem to be quite comfortable with the idea of taking that same choice away from other players.  Let people choose what they want to do - if other players feel the same way as you and think that the server is dead, they can transfer off it. 

[Darkestmonty]

28 minutes ago, TziganeNZ said:

So? Your experience does not invalidate or take precedence over mine. You may be ok with losing names, I am not.

This is pure opinion. Your opinion, to be exact. Others may not agree (and don't, to judge by the others posters in this thread).

I solo only. I do not play ANY group content. I certainly do NOT 'chat' to randos on fleet. I do not use the GTN nor am I in the slightest bit interested in playing 'space Barbie'.  Server merges, as have been explained to you previously, are most certainly NOT a must to keep the game healthy - going down to a single NA server would mean the death knell of the game (for reasons that have been previously explained to you).  Group content is not the be-all and end-all of playstyles.  If people are not grouping on their original servers now, they won't group if the servers are merged.  Assuming they stay with the game.

I have around 75 characters across 4 servers.  I doubt very much that I am one of a small set of players.  I also do not appreciate being called 'lazy' or having the character limits issues 'mansplained' to me.  I am very well aware of the server limits, thank you.  Do not presume to tell me how to manage my account.  It is arrogant.

I'm happy for you. The interesting word in this section is "CHOSE". You chose. Yet you seem to be quite comfortable with the idea of taking that same choice away from other players.  Let people choose what they want to do - if other players feel the same way as you and think that the server is dead, they can transfer off it. 

You have also threatened to quit before because the 7.0 gear system requires grouping to advance... yet you are still here.

You may not like losing your name, you may only play solo and never play with other people, but you have also shown a pattern of threatening to quit and either never quitting or eventually coming back.

It's not just "my opinion" that a character name is less important than the overall health of the game. If SWTOR never merged their 209 servers because character names were more important than the health of the game, SWTOR would have shut down in 2012. Your name, my name, no name is more important than keeping SWTOR running. That's isn't an opinion, that is a very simple fact based on economics.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TziganeNZ]

Just now, Darkestmonty said:

You have also threatened to quit before because the 7.0 gear system requires grouping to advance... yet you are still here.

You may not like losing your name, you may only play solo and never play with other people, but you have also shown a pattern of threatening to quit and either never quitting or eventually coming back.

It's not just "my opinion" that a character name is less important than the overall health of the game. If we still had 209 servers because character names were more important than the health of the game, SWTOR would have shut down in 2012. Your name, my name, no name is more important than keeping SWTOR running. That's isn't an opinion, that is a very simple fact based on economics.

And I did. I left for over a year.  I returned once the story had advanced and sufficient changes were made to the gearing system to make it tolerable. I have not established a 'pattern' - I suggest you rein in the hyperbole. 

You are still only positing an opinion. Not fact, economic or otherwise.  Unless you can provide the evidence (i.e. the actual, REAL numbers), you only have an anecdotal inference.  Can you prove that the game would have shut down in 2012 without the merges then?

[TziganeNZ]

11 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

You have also threatened to quit before because the 7.0 gear system requires grouping to advance... yet you are still here.

Not to mention that this attacking sentence has absolutely nothing to do with the thread or topic.....strawman.

[Darkestmonty]

13 minutes ago, TziganeNZ said:

And I did. I left for over a year.  I returned once the story had advanced and sufficient changes were made to the gearing system to make it tolerable. I have not established a 'pattern' - I suggest you rein in the hyperbole. 

You are still only positing an opinion. Not fact, economic or otherwise.  Unless you can provide the evidence (i.e. the actual, REAL numbers), you only have an anecdotal inference.  Can you prove that the game would have shut down in 2012 without the merges then?

it's a simple question of economics.

Do you really think this game would still be running if they never merged servers because "characters names are more important than the games survival". If the devs tried to preserve 209 servers with sparse populations, the game would have shut down years ago and your characters, along with their names, would no longer exist.

Character names are never going to be more important that the survival of the game.

  

12 minutes ago, TziganeNZ said:

Not to mention that this attacking sentence has absolutely nothing to do with the thread or topic.....strawman.

except you bought it up first in this very thread.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TziganeNZ]

15 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

it's a simple question of economics.

Keep running 209 servers when most are empty and it is costing Bioware money while making group content impossible on most servers or merge servers and keep the game active for the players that stay. If they never merged servers because character names were more important than the games survival, the game would have shut down back in 2012.

Again, where's your evidence?  This is still only a theoretical statement.  You don't know that for sure.  Are you Bioware's accountant? Do you have some inside knowledge of what happened in 2012 that makes a similar scenario likely for 2023?

On the balance of probabilities, you are likely correct - for 2012.  It does not follow, however, that the same statement will apply to a situation 11 years later.

Again, if people are unhappy on a supposedly 'dead' server because they are not getting groups or pops or whatever (because their preferred playstyle is grouping), they could choose to transfer off.  The OP has a good point, and perhaps, as has been suggested elsewhere in this thread, that a special event could be run at a reduced price for those who want to switch to do so easily should be something Bioware could consider before taking such a drastic step as server merges. 

The important thing here is player choice. The players themselves should be given the choice.

Edited July 26, 2023 by TziganeNZ

[Darkestmonty]

1 minute ago, TziganeNZ said:

Again, where's your evidence?  This is still only a theoretical statement.  You don't know that for sure.  Are you Bioware's accountant? Do you have some inside knowledge of what happened in 2012 that makes a similar scenario likely for 2023?

On the balance of probabilities, you are likely correct - for 2012.  It does not follow, however, that the same statement will apply to a situation 11 years later.

Again, if people are unhappy on a supposedly 'dead' server because they are not getting groups or pops or whatever (because their preferred playstyle is grouping), they could choose to transfer off.  The OP has a good point, and perhaps, as has been suggested in this thread, that a special event could be run at a reduced price for those who want to switch to do so easily should be something Bioware could consider before taking such a drastic step as server merges. 

The important thing here is player choice. The players themselves should be given the choice.

So you do think the game would have survived keeping 209 servers active since 2012 for the sake of preserving character names over merging and keeping group oriented content viable. Ok, well I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[TziganeNZ]

Just now, Darkestmonty said:

So you do think the game would have survived keeping 209 servers active since 2012. Ok, well I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

Good try, but no. You don't get to twist my words like that.  That is not what I said at all.

[Darkestmonty]

Just now, TziganeNZ said:

Good try, but no. You don't get to twist my words like that.  That is not what I said at all.

so you admit refusing to merge servers for the sake of preserving character names is not in the best interest of the games longevity?

[TziganeNZ]

2 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

so you admit refusing to merge servers for the sake of preserving character names is not in the best interest of the games longevity?

Losing names is only 1 reason.  Why do you keep focusing on only 1 reason? And again, that is not what I said. 

Edit: Keep going all you like - I'm off to bed now (it's late in my corner of the world, which is not the USA).

Edited July 26, 2023 by TziganeNZ

[Darkestmonty]

4 minutes ago, TziganeNZ said:

Losing names is only 1 reason.  Why do you keep focusing on only 1 reason? And again, that is not what I said. 

because citing that "I'm going to lose character slots I'm not using" is not a valid concern when you will be pushed beyond your normal character limit on a server merge.

You had over 1600 character slots when the game released. Why aren't you concerned over losing all those character slots?

If unused character slots are so important to you, use them before a server merge. You will retain full access to all characters that exist after a server merge. It is that simple.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

4 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

So you do think the game would have survived keeping 209 servers active since 2012 for the sake of preserving character names over merging and keeping group oriented content viable. Ok, well I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

have there not merge the 209 servers in to 5 with the big reason to save a lot of money also since keeping 209 servers active and running means you most pay a lot of money also when other things like paying the developers to make new contant and what some people still like the voice acting this game has cost also a lot.

i think that server merging is not the best solution to fix the population problem in the first place.

what there need to do is fix the real problems this game has.

like a super long list of bugs there need to fix.

a good contant flow with releasing 2 big expension each year with good story contant and also long not the 1 hour time there have done in 7.0.

and most of all not make stupid choose and mistake's like remove the same type thing after a year or chance it again after a year each time.

that are the real problems this game has now and need to be deal with.

server merging is for my part the last of the last solution if other things like fixing bugs and have a good contant flow not has done there job to boost the population.

[Darkestmonty]

7 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

have there not merge the 209 servers in to 5 with the big reason to save a lot of money also since keeping 209 servers active and running means you most pay a lot of money also when other things like paying the developers to make new contant and what some people still like the voice acting this game has cost also a lot.

i think that server merging is not the best solution to fix the population problem in the first place.

what there need to do is fix the real problems this game has.

like a super long list of bugs there need to fix.

a good contant flow with releasing 2 big expension each year with good story contant and also long not the 1 hour time there have done in 7.0.

and most of all not make stupid choose and mistake's like remove the same type thing after a year or chance it again after a year each time.

that are the real problems this game has now and need to be deal with.

server merging is for my part the last of the last solution if other things like fixing bugs and have a good contant flow not has done there job to boost the population.

the cost to maintain 209 servers with a sparse population would have been cost prohibitive. That's why I say it was a simple economic choice of shutting the game down or merging servers.

But group content was also reason. Even if all 209 servers had no cost associated with maintaining them, having 209 servers with our population would kill group content. Good luck trying to find groups for anything if people were spread across 209 servers in 2023.

Unless the devs roll out new server tech that allows for cross server grouping, queuing, and trading, server merges for NA are inevitable.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Darkestmonty]

24 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

They are. It’s called AWS 🤦‍♀️

Mind linking the official announcement that we will have cross server queues, be able to group with people from any server, and trade with people from any server?

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

30 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

But group content was also reason.

its the same with solo contant like the story line is the reason then.

if you pay for sub to get the last expension and you only get 1 hour off new story line contant when the expensions before have i think 8 or so hours of new story line contant like the 6.0 expension if you release a 1 hour expension that also gets a 2 months delay for the trailer only then people will leave the game and are not happy.

if there not listing to the feedback from the communety and see that as exemple the new armor upgrade system get that much hate then i can see why people are leaving the game and are not happy

if there remove something what is working good like the Dark vs Light system then people are leaving the game at some point.

most of the time's people leave the game is thanks to the wrong choose the developers make with new contant or that the contant flow is crap.

there are bugs in this game that has been around since launch day of the game so old are some of the bugs in this game and there never get a fix.

same with the new one's there never ever get fix also if you report then.

 

edit: the reason a lot of people are not doing group contant is that a big group of people always run with the same type off players and almost no new player can join then since there not know what there most do.

and to learn that what there need to do there need to learn it by running it first so if the players that are running it alot give the new players also a chance to learn it what there need to do so thats something that needs to chance first by the players and communety.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Spikanor

[Stradlin]

2 hours ago, TziganeNZ said:

So? Your experience does not invalidate or take precedence over mine. You may be ok with losing names, I am not.

This is pure opinion. Your opinion, to be exact. Others may not agree (and don't, to judge by the others posters in this thread).

I solo only. I do not play ANY group content. I certainly do NOT 'chat' to randos on fleet. I do not use the GTN nor am I in the slightest bit interested in playing 'space Barbie'.  Server merges, as have been explained to you previously, are most certainly NOT a must to keep the game healthy - going down to a single NA server would mean the death knell of the game (for reasons that have been previously explained to you).  Group content is not the be-all and end-all of playstyles.  If people are not grouping on their original servers now, they won't group if the servers are merged.  Assuming they stay with the game.

 

 

Unlike you, plenty of people playing this multiplayer game end up ineracting with other people. All true multiplayer content needs other people to even happen. In this heavily instanced game, server being more full doesn't cause any significant hurdles for a solo purist like yourself. For MMO players who..play with other people sometimes, too quiet a server prevents them for playing their preferred content at all. They suffer from a quiet server much more than you benefit from one.

Server merges and/or free character transfers alike have been a MUST to keep the game healthy in the past. Multiple times in fact. We may well have one of those ahead of us still. Some six months or so after launch, they were too slow with the first big server merge and game suffered  from that a great deal. Launch window had dozens and dozens of different servers and once active subs dropped down below 1 million or so, most of those servers became dead. Game, undeservedly, got the aura and rep. as a "dead game" because of this.

If one's home server becomes too quiet for their taste , then " meh, this game is dead, imma leave" is prolly  at least as likely an outcome as " alrite, time to get me some character transfers and move!!"  Free character transfers might be different. Likelyhood of somebody burning some four or even five digit sum of cartel coins to move most of their legacy? It prolly isn't common.

 

 

Generally speaking, it'd be cool to have entire community present on one big server, would def make things feel very alive 24/7.It'd prolly require lots of tuning when it comes to things such as conquest boards, general chat of fleets and capitals. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Stradlin

[Darcmoon]

54 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

 

if you pay for sub to get the last expension and you only get 1 hour off new story line contant when the expensions before have i think 8 or so hours of new story line contant like the 6.0 expension if you release a 1 hour expension that also gets a 2 months delay for the trailer only then people will leave the game and are not happy.

 

if there remove something what is working good like the Dark vs Light system then people are leaving the game at some point.

 

While I agree with you about the fact that 7.0 gave us a pitiful amount of new story for an expansion, most of the 6.0 story was released after that xpac dropped, if I remember right.  That unfortunately is a trend since the first xpac where they seem to be getting smaller and smaller with each subsequent one.  
 

As for the Dark vs Light system, I’ll admit it was working but I’m not sure I’d say it was working good.   I always hated that I was pushed to go full dark or light with every character.  Before they made that change I had a number of toons that were anywhere from neutral to dark/light 1-4 because of the choices I made playing them based off how I wanted the toon to go. I was glad they removed the system just because of that with 7.0. I do think they need to add in new ways to get the currency though. 

[OlBuzzard]

It's one thing to offer transfers at a discounted rate.  If someone doesn't like their new home they can move back (if they so choose to do so).  

Server merges are typically final.  There is no going back.  When it's done ... it's done!

Name changes?  Player base lost (and there will be some)?  No thanks!

[Toraak]

I know I've lost character names in the past on every merger. I wasn't happy about it personally. While I do group content I do believe there are enough people on SS that there is no need for a merger. If your not happy there for whatever reason, Transfer 1 character so those that want to stay on SS can. It's as simple as that. Nothing wrong with asking for reduced (or free) transfers for a limited time offer so those that want to leave can. Don't need to transfer more then 1-2 characters and that can be done easily enough due to season's.

 

As for mergers **** no. those that want to move can.

[Darkestmonty]

4 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

It's one thing to offer transfers at a discounted rate.  If someone doesn't like their new home they can move back (if they so choose to do so).  

Server merges are typically final.  There is no going back.  When it's done ... it's done!

Name changes?  Player base lost (and there will be some)?  No thanks!

and this is the only valid loss to a server merge. People will have to rename their characters.

Every other excuse is a irrelevant.

The Erotic Role Play community on SF won't be destroyed by SS players making fun of them. We already do that on SF when you start using Gen Chat to moan or ask for lap dances.

Elite PvPers from SS don't exist. They are the same PvPers as found on SF as found on DM as found on TH as found on LV. No server has super elite PvPers.

Players won't miss the empty character slots on servers they don't play.

Players pushes over their character limit on a merge will still have access to all their characters. Smart players can use this to their advantage and fill all character slots before a merge.

Players who want to avoid all other players can still do so on a busier server. Actually they can avoid players even more since busier servers have multiple instances open with less people.

My stance remains that players names are less important than the games overall health and peoples ability to find group content. Server merges are inevitable unless Trixxie links us the new cross server, cross trade, and cross grouping information she says is obviously coming from the AWS.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[OlBuzzard]

4 minutes ago, Darkestmonty said:

and this is the only valid loss to a server merge. People will have to rename their characters.

Every other excuse is a irrelevant.

The Erotic Role Play community on SF won't be destroyed by SS players making fun of them. We already do that on SF when you start using Gen Chat to moan or ask for lap dances.

Elite PvPers from SS don't exist. They are the same PvPers as found on SF as found on DM as found on TH as found on LV. No server has super elite PvPers.

Players won't miss the empty character slots on servers they don't play.

Players pushes over their character limit on a merge will still have access to all their characters. Smart players can use this to their advantage and fill all character slots before a merge.

Players who want to avoid all other players can still do so on a busier server. Actually they can avoid players even more since busier servers have multiple instances open with less people.

My stance is still, players names are not more important than the games overall health. Server merges are inevitable unless Trixxie links us the new cross server, cross trade, and cross grouping information she says is coming.

No Thank You!  The individuals posting in this thread are not irrelevant.  Facts are not irrelevant.  Pushing everyone into one server creates more problems than it solves for most (and only satisfies the desires of a handful of people).  

The only thing that seems to be consistently lacking in relevance is the insistent demand for a major course of action that satisfies only a handful of people while creating difficulties for a much larger audience.

[Darkestmonty]

32 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

No Thank You!  The individuals posting in this thread are not irrelevant.  Facts are not irrelevant.  Pushing everyone into one server creates more problems than it solves for most (and only satisfies the desires of a handful of people).  

The only thing that seems to be consistently lacking in relevance is the insistent demand for a major course of action that satisfies only a handful of people while creating difficulties for a much larger audience.

If individual concerns were more important than the over all health of this game we would still have 209 servers and the game would have been shut down 10 years ago. Individual concerns are never going to be more important that keeping this game healthy and active.

Unless new cross server tech is introduced, merges are inevitable as the population wanes every year.

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty

[Spikanor]

9 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

While I agree with you about the fact that 7.0 gave us a pitiful amount of new story for an expansion

it was also the most hate expension there was since nobody was happy about it and there was only hate about it.

and not forget the 1 week before it has to be release there told there are delaying it with 2 month's so to make things more worse for a lot off people that have buy sub only for that to screw then more up.

the reasons the population from game's become low is always the developers fault since there make the wrong choose always what the communety not wane have at all and not like.

or there screw it big time also like the delay with the 7.0 expension 1 week before launch telling its going to be delay with extra 2 month's only since there need to make a trailer.

[DarthAlastor]

Ok so lets say they do merge the servers into one big NA server. Then that server crashes for an indeterminate amount of time. You think that's good for the overall health of the game? Not everyone plays on all servers

[Darkestmonty]

9 minutes ago, DarthAlastor said:

Ok so lets say they do merge the servers into one big NA server. Then that server crashes for an indeterminate amount of time. You think that's good for the overall health of the game? Not everyone plays on all servers

Lets say servers stay as they are and the server you play crashes. You think this will benefit anyone but players who play on multiple servers? Not everyone plays on multiple servers.

That and the fact that servers only stay down for a few hours at most. I can't recall a time when servers have been down for 10+ hours at a time.

What's stopping you from playing Darth Malgus, Tulak Hord, or Leviathan if there was a single NA server?

Edited July 26, 2023 by Darkestmonty