Can we get free transfers off dead servers please?

[StrikePrice]

10 hours ago, Darkestmonty said:

They want free transfers. What's better than free transfers? A complete merge of servers. Not only will they take everything they own with them in a merge, they may even retain their name if they exceed the requirements over the other player that shares their name.

Free transfers only solves their issue, a merger solves all population issues, except for those people who care more about their character name than the health of the game and those people who think waiting 30 seconds for a mission item to respawn is game breaking... and those people who think their one and only instance with 59 players has less players than the busier server which has 179 players, 3 instances, one of which is full and two of which have less than 59 players each... but you know, math is a magical mystery.

I disagree. Free or inexpensive transfers are preferred to a merge because it allows people to chose. 

[TrixxieTriss]

10 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

Free or inexpensive transfers are preferred to a merge because it allows people to chose

It would also cost the dev team less time, resources & money to give players free or cheap transfers, than it would merging the servers. 

Time, resources & money they would be better spent adding new content or fixing bugs.

[DWho]

35 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That wasn’t what Strike was asking for or others. They specifically said free transfers off dead servers. There is no reason to offer cheap or free transfers off SF or DM

Why shouldn't they just be free or reduced fee transfers for everyone. I'm fine with people wanting to move off SS but I think the ones who want to move off SF should get the same opportunity. The definition of "dead" server seems to be the sticking point. I and a lot of people don't think SS is a dead server. When I am leveling characters, there are people all over the place. I looks and feels as busy as SF in many locations.

[StrikePrice]

6 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It would also cost the dev team less time, resources & money to give players free or cheap transfers, than it would merging the servers. 

Time, resources & money they would be better spent adding new content or fixing bugs.

This is a critical point to me. I always prefer "solutions" that are simple and already implemented. Change 1000cc to 100cc, make a forum post and be done with it. Mergers is a whole thing. You have to make announcements, you have to dry run, you have to test -- it's a major disruption to the game, the players and the dev team. I agree, I'd like them working on 7.4, not mergers at this time. 

[TrixxieTriss]

11 minutes ago, DWho said:

Why shouldn't they just be free or reduced fee transfers for everyone. I'm fine with people wanting to move off SS but I think the ones who want to move off SF should get the same opportunity. The definition of "dead" server seems to be the sticking point. I and a lot of people don't think SS is a dead server. When I am leveling characters, there are people all over the place. I looks and feels as busy as SF in many locations.

That’s a whole other discussion with other considerations. 

But the short answer is the dev team want to make money off transfers. So their only reason to even offer discounts is if group content on a server becomes difficult to achieve because there aren’t enough people queuing for it.

Edited July 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

32 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s a whole other discussion with other considerations. 

But the short answer is the dev team want to make money off transfers. So their only reason to even offer discounts is if group content on a server becomes difficult to achieve because there aren’t enough people queuing for it.

Well I guess that is acceptable. You're still trapping players on SF but at least you aren't forcing people to change servers that don't want to.

[TrixxieTriss]

43 minutes ago, DWho said:

Well I guess that is acceptable. You're still trapping players on SF but at least you aren't forcing people to change servers that don't want to.

Not sure how that’s trapping anyone 🤷🏻‍♀️ They are still able to pay to transfer, the same as they are now.

The difference is, there are people who can’t play group content on their server as it’s designed, all because of depleted player numbers, should be offered a way to do that without it costing them anything. 

We wouldn’t even be having this discussion if those people could readily play group content at anytime without long queue times. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

23 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Not sure how that’s trapping anyone 🤷🏻‍♀️ They are still able to pay to transfer, the same as they are now.

The difference is, there are people who can’t play group content on their server as it’s designed, all because of depleted player numbers, should be offered a way to do that without it costing them anything. 

We wouldn’t even be having this discussion if those people could readily play group content at anytime without long queue times. 

It's nowhere near as desolate as you are being led to believe.

Edited July 24, 2023 by DWho

[StrikePrice]

13 minutes ago, DWho said:

It's nowhere near as desolate as you are being led to believe.

Yes, it is. It's deserted. You must not play MMOs to not understand that.  For someone who plays mostly single player, I can see how you might think that. We're talking a couple hundred regular players at most. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by StrikePrice

[Eckrond]

8 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s not true because of distance & performance issues.

Follow the conversation first next time, the point being made was that megaservers are the ideal and precisely aren't here because of ping.

[Eckrond]

8 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I disagree.

You said all people who enjoy multi-player content in MMOs want a mega server.

That is objectively false.

Multi-player content is all that enjoy and I don't want a mega server and several other people said they didn't want it either.

Unless you can read minds, you don't get to speak for everyone else.

And again, you tried to argue your points first, which you failed at and then tried to backpedal as if it didn't matter.  Why should I believe you know what you're talking about when the only thing you've proven is otherwise?

No one cares if you disagree, your perspective is worthless at this point.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

It's nowhere near as desolate as you are being led to believe.

I’m sure it isn’t desolate during primetime. But that’s not the only time people play.

You have to remember it’s a global game with 24 hour cycles.

So you should “technically” be able to play any content 24/7 without having to wait too long in a queue for group content.

Wether that content is flash points, operations or PvP, waiting more than 10 mins is too long for most people. 

So depending on what the group content is & what time of day it is, will determine if your experiencing degraded population problems or just time of day issues.

Of course the game itself has population degradation across all the servers & even the busiest servers have longer queue times at the quietest part of the 24 hour cycle.

But take it from someone who plays at those quiet hours because I’m in APAC, you can really tell when it’s just a quiet period of the day & when queues aren’t popping because there aren’t enough people in the queue. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

48 minutes ago, Eckrond said:

Follow the conversation first next time, the point being made was that megaservers are the ideal and precisely aren't here because of ping.

What a pointless discussion talking about something that’s irrelevant to this game. We are talking about swtor.

Edited July 24, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

38 minutes ago, Eckrond said:

No one cares if you disagree, your perspective is worthless at this point.

I care. His perspective is just as valid as yours & I agree with more of what he’s said than yourself. I think you need to step back & realise other people have opinions too. That doesn’t mean their right, but that doesn’t mean their wrong either. And a discussion doesn’t mean you can’t change your opinion as you think about something more or hear other input. 

[DWho]

10 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Of course the game itself has population degradation across all the servers & even the busiest servers have longer queue times at the quietest part of the 24 hour cycle.

And that's the rub isn't it. Any server can feel busy or desolate depending on when you play. I have been on SF really late at night US time and it gets quite dead too (same is true for DM). There are enough people on SS to drive the queues most of the time, the question is why aren't they queuing? (in theory, a flashpoint pops with only 4 people in the queue and there's a lot more than that on SS even in slow times - PVP is a different matter but the not queuing there has a lot to do with Bioware's choices on how to "update" it and PVP seasons is less than inspiring).

I don't queue as often as I used to mainly because all of the group content has started to look the same (the increased toxicity on SF hasn't helped either in convincing me to queue GF), one operation runs pretty much the same as the others once you have memorized your rotation - it's all burn for most of them once you get a full set of FP armor (OPs armor is just icing on the cake). Same is true with FPs. Maybe that's part of the problem?

PVPers have left and there is nothing left to inspire people to do it. Bioware has stooped to offering bribes (aka PVP seasons) but that doesn't really go far in getting people to queue consistently. Guilds do a lot of their group content internally now as well, which cuts into GF queues. I'm in 2 active guilds on SS and there are nightly group activities going on but it's all organized internally and avoids GF until after the group is built.

[casirabit]

26 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I care. His perspective is just as valid as yours & I agree with more of what he’s said than yourself. I think you need to step back & realise other people have opinions too. That doesn’t mean their right, but that doesn’t mean their wrong either. And a discussion doesn’t mean you can’t change your opinion as you think about something more or hear other input. 

/agreed.   I always find it funny there are those that want to tell someone their opinion doesn't matter, but wants to throw a hissy fit if someone tells them the same thing.

Edited July 24, 2023 by casirabit

[TrixxieTriss]

29 minutes ago, DWho said:

There are enough people on SS to drive the queues most of the time

How do you know that? 

[DWho]

16 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

How do you know that? 

well, there were 50 on the fleet and another 30 on Hoth when I was on a hour or so ago. That's 80 players total just those two places. Even really late at night (2-3 am server time) I don't recall seeing less than 12 on fleet. So there are enough just from a body count perspective, they just aren't queuing for group content (or are being very specific about which content they want to play). Obviously 12 isn't enough for PVP (and not every one logged on is going to want to play group content so you need more) but it should be good enough for GF if at least 25% of the people are interested and have all the FPs checked in GF (I am convinced the lower than expected pops on all servers are a result of apathy rather that the server population not being viable). That also doesn't take into account ignore lists though so the number of viable players could be lower.

It's not proof but based on the number of players on-line, there should be enough to pop the queues for some of the group content if their interest in group content is high enough. Looking to pug R4 is obviously not going to happen but I doubt it happens much if at all on SF either. I'm not saying your selection would be great on what pops through GF but there should be group content available based on the number of players on-line.

[OlBuzzard]

11 minutes ago, DWho said:

well, there were 50 on the fleet and another 30 on Hoth when I was on a hour or so ago. That's 80 players total just those two places. Even really late at night (2-3 am server time) I don't recall seeing less than 12 on fleet. So there are enough just from a body count perspective, they just aren't queuing for group content (or are being very specific about which content they want to play). Obviously 12 isn't enough for PVP (and not every one logged on is going to want to play group content so you need more) but it should be good enough for GF if at least 25% of the people are interested and have all the FPs checked in GF (I am convinced the lower than expected pops on all servers are a result of apathy rather that the server population not being viable). That also doesn't take into account ignore lists though so the number of viable players could be lower.

It's not proof but based on the number of players on-line, there should be enough to pop the queues for some of the group content if their interest in group content is high enough. Looking to pug R4 is obviously not going to happen but I doubt it happens much if at all on SF either. I'm not saying your selection would be great on what pops through GF but there should be group content available based on the number of players on-line.

Respectfully ..  even with 25 - 50 people in a particular place... IMO it's ALSO about having enough people in that general population/area that also happen to be going the same way you're going ... AND with the same goals ... AND perhaps (in some situations) whether or not some of them prefer to ride the space bar (and maybe you don't) ...  

I can only imagine what it's like to get a good group together in some of these areas.

Reduced costs for transfers would always be preferable to server mergers.  

Oddly enough ... I'm afraid that my own solution is somewhat different.  I would prefer to see more new stuff added to SWTOR (including better PvP stuff) where the servers would begin to repopulate again.  IMO anything else ... is more of sticking a small Band-Aid on a much larger more open wound. 

I'm sorry ...  I know this is probably not what many would prefer for me to post here ... but IMO it's still the truth (though not very pretty).

[OlBuzzard]

4 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

This is a critical point to me. I always prefer "solutions" that are simple and already implemented. Change 1000cc to 100cc, make a forum post and be done with it. Mergers is a whole thing. You have to make announcements, you have to dry run, you have to test -- it's a major disruption to the game, the players and the dev team. I agree, I'd like them working on 7.4, not mergers at this time. 

Absolutely my friend !!!  +10

[DWho]

1 minute ago, OlBuzzard said:

Respectfully ..  even with 25 - 50 people in a particular place... IMO it's ALSO about having enough people in that general population/area that also happen to be going the same way you're going

That is actually my point. There are still a lot of people playing but the number queuing for group content seems to have declined rather precipitously in the last year or so. It now takes a lot higher base population to get the same number of pops that you could get before. Why are people (particularly new players) not playing group content is the question Bioware/Broadsword needs to answer rather than punishing those who have moved on from it

[OlBuzzard]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

That is actually my point. There are still a lot of people playing but the number queuing for group content seems to have declined rather precipitously in the last year or so. It now takes a lot higher base population to get the same number of pops that you could get before. Why are people (particularly new players) not playing group content is the question Bioware/Broadsword needs to answer rather than punishing those who have moved on from it

Even with the attempts to "persuade" players to group up by gating rewards / equipment ... etc behind group only stuff?

Hmmm  ... There's got to be a message in there somewhere!!

[Toraak]

Just now, DWho said:

That is actually my point. There are still a lot of people playing but the number queuing for group content seems to have declined rather precipitously in the last year or so. It now takes a lot higher base population to get the same number of pops that you could get before. Why are people (particularly new players) not playing group content is the question Bioware/Broadsword needs to answer rather than punishing those who have moved on from it

This kind of goes alone with my opinion of my playtime on SS. While the server is far from dead, most of the group content is either being done within guilds (which I have seen personally) or most of the population on SS is far more of a solo pllaystyle. 

 

SS has plenty of people on it, however it just isn't pug friendly for stuff like GSF or GF FP's or pickup Ops group. Does this means it needs a merger? NO. Does this mean that BW should do a cheaper Transfer so people can move legacies over to SF? possibly, but those cheaper transfers should go both ways, so if people on SF want to move to SS they have the right to do so.

 

I could argue however that those that want to move to SF from SS only need to transfer 1 character regardless. Once the legacy is moved over there should be no problems leveling the rest of the characters you need, since leveling in this game is incredibly fast. So all those CC's we get from Galactic Season's could easily have been for your FREE Transfer of the 1 character (with all you need to transfer for gear credits, mats etc in cargo hold (non legacy hold).

[DWho]

Just now, OlBuzzard said:

Even with the attempts to "persuade" players to group up by gating rewards / equipment ... etc behind group only stuff?

Hmmm  ... There's got to be a message in there somewhere!!

I think GF toxicity has something to do with it too. When the first experience of a new player in group content is unpleasant, that is what is remembered. When GF first came out I remember using it to queue flashpoints and the first question asked was "who hasn't done this before" and then they would go through the mechanics and other matters before rolling in. Now, if your lucky you get a "go watch YouTube before you come back" or just a straight up kick. I'm sure I have pissed of some group players by dropping from the group after they kick someone I consider to not have deserved it (especially if they are being rude)

PVP is kind of the same. You used to have players chat with you about what you could have done better and how to handle the situation if it comes up again at the end of the match (overall pleasant follow-up experience). Now its a lot of cursing and name calling and other rude behavior. The group community has lost it's friendly nature as completing things as fast as possible became the norm (aka farming rewards).

This probably isn't the place to have a discussion about what is wrong with group play, but it is a discussion that needs to be had somewhere. It is a lot more unpleasant to participate in random group play than it used to be.

[Toraak]

Just now, DWho said:

I think GF toxicity has something to do with it too. When the first experience of a new player in group content is unpleasant, that is what is remembered. When GF first came out I remember using it to queue flashpoints and the first question asked was "who hasn't done this before" and then they would go through the mechanics and other matters before rolling in. Now, if your lucky you get a "go watch YouTube before you come back" or just a straight up kick. I'm sure I have pissed of some group players by dropping from the group after they kick someone I consider to not have deserved it (especially if they are being rude)

PVP is kind of the same. You used to have players chat with you about what you could have done better and how to handle the situation if it comes up again at the end of the match (overall pleasant follow-up experience). Now its a lot of cursing and name calling and other rude behavior. The group community has lost it's friendly nature as completing things as fast as possible became the norm (aka farming rewards).

This probably isn't the place to have a discussion about what is wrong with group play, but it is a discussion that needs to be had somewhere. It is a lot more unpleasant to participate in random group play than it used to be.

This also true unfortunately. It's also why I quit WoW the last time permanently. GF was nothing but toxic players.