AHSOKA!!

[JakRoanin]

15 minutes ago, Toraak said:

Wouldn't work. They have changed Ahsoka's personality from what it was in Clone Wars, and Rebels. I don't know if it was the writers who did it or the actress, but I'd have a hard time seeing the original voice actress changing the personality like this. Ahsoka just doesn't feel like the same character in the live action shows. It feels like a completely different person.

I don't understand these critiques about when a character is DECADES older than their introduction that suddenly they're not the same! Nobody is the same in their teens as they are in their 40's and 50's. Ahsoka is not a child with rose colored glasses anymore. Expecting her to be how she was in Clone Wars or Rebels is utterly absurd. Expecting Luke to be the same as he was at 23 at in his late 50's is even more Absurd. people are gonna hate if they want to hate, that's fine. But this is just advocating no character growth. 

[TonyTricicolo]

Interesting, Let's take Sabine for an example. She had her tumultuous teen progression in REBELS and it's if her character in Ahsoka reverted back to it.  She's older yet really didn't grow mentally. I can only surmise that this was done intentionally to make her relatable and introduce her to an audience that may have not watched REBELS.  Actors tend to make the characters they portray "theirs" by adding nuances that aren't sometimes associated with the original design. On the other hand, it's the actor's job to play the character they way it was written. Take Luke Skywalker in sequel trilogies. Mark Hamil was adamant on how he wanted Luke to stay consistent to what was known yet instead he portrayed it the way Rian Johnson wanted Luke to be. 

 

I personally don't think Rosario Dawson was a good pairing for Ahsoka. I have nothing against her and enjoyed her in plenty of movies like KIDS, He Got Game, Alexander, and DareDevil.  Sometimes actors mesh, sometimes they don't. I think they nailed a perfect match for Mon Mothma with Genevieve O'Reilly. Even more so better than the original actor.

Edited September 27, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[Balameb]

1 hour ago, TonyTricicolo said:

Interesting, Let's take Sabine for an example. She had her tumultuous teen progression in REBELS and it's if her character in Ahsoka reverted back to it.  She's older yet really didn't grow mentally. I can only surmise that this was done intentionally to make her relatable and introduce her to an audience that may have not watched REBELS.  Actors tend to make the characters they portray "theirs" by adding nuances that aren't sometimes associated with the original design. On the other hand, it's the actor's job to play the character they way it was written. Take Luke Skywalker in sequel trilogies. Mark Hamil was adamant on how he wanted Luke to stay consistent to what was known yet instead he portrayed it the way Rian Johnson wanted Luke to be. 

 

I personally don't think Rosario Dawson was a good pairing for Ahsoka. I have nothing against her and enjoyed her in plenty of movies like KIDS, He Got Game, Alexander, and DareDevil.  Sometimes actors mesh, sometimes they don't. I think they nailed a perfect match for Mon Mothma with Genevieve O'Reilly. Even more so better than the original actor.

IMO, the biggest problem is more the writing than Rosario not being a perfect match. Her introduction in Mandalorian was for me a lot better than what we are seeing here.

The whole master-aprentice with Sabine i think was not needed at all. I mean:  'A former Jedi joins forces with a Mandalorian to find a lost friend and avoid the return of a dangerous enemy', did the show needed more? They wanted to add too much complexity in the Sabine/Ahsoka relation and is not even properly written, i think there is an abuse of 'it is complicated' and silences and 'looks'.

And to make it worst, the poor writing is paired with bad 'staging'/'cut'/editing; Ahsoka's fights feels luckluster to me. I loved her fights in Clone Wars, Rebels, and the fight scene during mandalorian was decent enough; here feels like 'meh' at best.

On a plus side.

Spoiler

Besides not liking him refusing the lightsaber; at least Ezra did seemed like Ezra: older, maybe even a little mature as last episodes of rebels but keeping a slight goofines.

And while i'm not the biggest fan of 3PO i loved his cameo.

 

[Jazulfi]

18 minutes ago, Balameb said:

IMO, the biggest problem is more the writing than Rosario not being a perfect match. Her introduction in Mandalorian was for me a lot better than what we are seeing here.

The whole master-aprentice with Sabine i think was not needed at all. I mean:  'A former Jedi joins forces with a Mandalorian to find a lost friend and avoid the return of a dangerous enemy', did the show needed more? They wanted to add too much complexity in the Sabine/Ahsoka relation and is not even properly written, i think there is an abuse of 'it is complicated' and silences and 'looks'.

And to make it worst, the poor writing is paired with bad 'staging'/'cut'/editing; Ahsoka's fights feels luckluster to me. I loved her fights in Clone Wars, Rebels, and the fight scene during mandalorian was decent enough; here feels like 'meh' at best.

On a plus side.

  Hide contents

Besides not liking him refusing the lightsaber; at least Ezra did seemed like Ezra: older, maybe even a little mature as last episodes of rebels but keeping a slight goofines.

And while i'm not the biggest fan of 3PO i loved his cameo.

 

Agree with all of this. Dawson is great and I had high hopes after her cameo in Mandalorian, but this series doesn't do the character or her acting any justice at all. I'm completely with you on the silences, standing around and 'looking'. I also can't quite believe they've gone for the 'Scary Blonde Eastern European Girl' trope too and I feel so sorry for that actress. She has nothing to do other than stand around looking a bit barmy, and be a foil so Sabine gets to fight 'someone her own size' I'll be utterly unsurprised if they have them pulling each other's hair at some point.
 

Spoiler

The Dathomir witches are incredibly underwhelming as well. Not scary or interesting at all Such a shame. But agree about Ezra, thought he did a good job for the all-of-5-seconds he was in it.   However, I'd like to have a stern talking to the people who decided hermit crabs in suits were a good idea. FFS.

Having said all this, I've not seen Ep 7, and Ep 6 at least piqued my interest a little.

[Balameb]

1 minute ago, Jazulfi said:

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The Dathomir witches are incredibly underwhelming as well. Not scary or interesting at all Such a shame. But agree about Ezra, thought he did a good job for the all-of-5-seconds he was in it.   However, I'd like to have a stern talking to the people who decided hermit crabs in suits were a good idea. FFS.

 

Spoiler

           I was talking about ep7, he gets more time in it 😁

And i fully agree on the hermit crabs. Bad idea indeed. Knowing Ezra talents to bond with all kind of species, even agressive/deadly ones, they could have thought something better that could had explained how Thrawn could not hunt him down.           

 

[Jazulfi]

1 minute ago, Balameb said:

  Hide contents

           I was talking about ep7, he gets more time in it 😁

   

 

Oh I wasn't being sarky or anything!! I meant it. For his brief appearance, I thought he was good. I got good vibes.

[TonyTricicolo]

2 hours ago, Balameb said:

Spoiler

The Dathomir witches are incredibly underwhelming

 

Spoiler

I find, with the exception of Huyang, all the characters to be incredibly underwhelming. lol

 

Edited for CHOPPER because he didn't disappoint.

Edited for my boy Hayden because he did do his role justice!

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[Balameb]

2 hours ago, TonyTricicolo said:

  Hide contents

I find, with the exception of Huyang, all the characters to be incredibly underwhelming. lol

 

Edited for CHOPPER because he didn't disappoint.

Edited for my boy Hayden because he did do his role justice!

 

Spoiler

On the subject of Hayden i have two notes one + and one -

The bit i don't like is like was pointed earlier in this thread, he is getting older; and the special effects department has not done the best of the jobs. I think they could have done a lot better with current tech, more so considering we see mostly force ghosts ands holograms of anakin. So not Haydens fault.

On the plus side. His voice is way better than the movies, has indeed matured and i think it suits the role a lot more.

 

And Chopper is awesome. Is the astromec companion i would love to have in swtor.

 

[JakRoanin]

15 hours ago, TonyTricicolo said:

Interesting, Let's take Sabine for an example. She had her tumultuous teen progression in REBELS and it's if her character in Ahsoka reverted back to it.  She's older yet really didn't grow mentally. I can only surmise that this was done intentionally to make her relatable and introduce her to an audience that may have not watched REBELS.  Actors tend to make the characters they portray "theirs" by adding nuances that aren't sometimes associated with the original design. On the other hand, it's the actor's job to play the character they way it was written. Take Luke Skywalker in sequel trilogies. Mark Hamil was adamant on how he wanted Luke to stay consistent to what was known yet instead he portrayed it the way Rian Johnson wanted Luke to be. 

 

I personally don't think Rosario Dawson was a good pairing for Ahsoka. I have nothing against her and enjoyed her in plenty of movies like KIDS, He Got Game, Alexander, and DareDevil.  Sometimes actors mesh, sometimes they don't. I think they nailed a perfect match for Mon Mothma with Genevieve O'Reilly. Even more so better than the original actor.

1. I love Mr. Hamilton and his gripe was that Luke lost hope, not that he wasn't 23 TFA managed to make Leia at a different stage in life with more scars without wiping her hope.

2. Ahsoka isn't a writer's room show like Friends 1 man the creator of these characters wrote them so people can not like it, but that doesn't make it bad.

3. Sabine's regression is character growth by definition!

[TonyTricicolo]

C'mon Jak, you can't tell me there's not something off. It's a combination of plot points, actor castings and their deliverance, choreography, and the overall pacing of the show.  Perhaps my opinion will change after I watch the season in its entirety.  

Edited October 4, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[JakRoanin]

I haven't watched it yet, waiting to BINGE. However, even if I hate it, (which I won't because Hayden Christensen) I will still say Mr. Filloni did exactly the right thing with the characters HE created. I LOATH Mace Windu, I LOATH him, but GL created him and exclusively wrote him in the movies therefore, everything about him in the movies was "right"!

[Whykara]

3 hours ago, JakRoanin said:

I will still say Mr. Filloni did exactly the right thing with the characters HE created.

Dave Filoni is not God. He can do wrong. And if you subscribe to the death-of-the-author theory, his opinion on his characters is as valid as mine or yours.

Not to mention what implications your statement has for criticism as a whole, if the author is always right.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Whykara

[JakRoanin]

I never said he was God, but he created Ahsoka he is her God. And yes, criticism is perfectly acceptable. I think I've made my feelings on GL's writing and theories quite clear. To me, he has done many awful things. 

1. Attachment = Borderline Personality Disorder

2. Losing the person you love to madness = giving up on life even when you have twins to live for

3.  One action determines your entire fate.

4. Han didn't shoot first.

And Mr. Filloni has also done things that I'm not keen on. I'm not a fan of the Mortis Triad, (too much IMO) but to say wrong is not an objective fact. I don't like it because is a proper opinion. 99% of criticism is subjective because ART IS SUBJECTIVE!

[TonyTricicolo]

George Lucas came up with the cringy dialogue for Anakin in AOTC. I wish I can unsee the Padme love scenes because to this day I have to remind myself every time I watch the scene is that no one talks like that! lol BUT he also took the time to coach Hayden on how exactly he wanted to him to portray teen Anakin. That intemperance, that angst, that compressed rage was all Hayden. He got a lot of hate for being that EMO teen and hardly gets credit for doing his great performance.  So George Lucas was lousy at dialog but excellent at directing. Hayden is underrated and I'm glad they are using him now in Ahsoka.

 

[Jazulfi]

Respectfully, if you get paid The Big Bucks to write high profile TV/Film scripts, the viewers aren't required to act like doting parents, clapping and cooing when we're handed sticky drawings in crayon. Ahsoka's problems come from poor scripting and BAD storytelling. This isn't about character choices I don't like, this is about the narrative feeling thin, rushed and cheap. The series also *looks* cheap and horrible.

They didn't have to tell THIS story this way, but they didn't even have to tell this particular story. 'Clone Wars' is a phenomenal example of great storytelling and character building (inc some characters who were not in a good state after the prequels), a huge feat given how furious the fanbase were at the time, and importantly, how we all knew the inevetible outcome. Yet we still loved it and still watched it through to it's end. I *still* shed a tear at those final episodes.

So I don't feel inclined to give Filoni a generous slap on the back for a mediocre-to-poor story, when I have Clone Wars show how it *can* be done, and yes, I feel he's gone a bit GL. They wanted a quick linking story as a lead up for the next films, which is the end game, and I have a horrible sinking feeling about it being the prequels all over again. There's a very 'shifting units marketing vibe' about it all.*

Poor Ahsoka Tano.

*P.S. Jar Jar wasn't the problem, it was the unneccessary creation of Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul.
 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Jazulfi

[JakRoanin]

I totally respect your opinion, I respect everyone's opinion, as long as whoever it is doesn't cling to it as fact. But since Mr. Filloni finished his writing before the writers strike or its resolution, any big bucks he's made this season was producing not writing.

[ReKabNad]

Season Finalé is NOW STREAMING, so what are you waiting for?  GO.  WATCH.  AND ENJOY!!!!

And now, here's my Guaranteed Spoiler-Free Review:

WOW! 11/10!!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👍👍

Now then, Hollywood, let's get that Actor's Strike resolved so work can commence on new episodes of The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, and if we're really lucky, The Book of Boba Fett! 

I have spoken. 

[TonyTricicolo]

Overall, I give the season a D-

Spoiler

Epi 1- 5/10 not good, not bad but an even baseline score to judge the rest on

Epi 2- 4/10 Some awkward moments.

Epi 3- 2/10 Put me to sleep.

Epi 4- 6/10 slightly better than the first because of a few highlights

Epi 5- 7/10 solid good episode

Epi 6- 6/10 a step down due to some anticlimactic moments

Epi 7- 8/10 very good, but not great due to a couple of "huh?" questionables

Epi 8- 9/10 great but not perfect. 

 

5+4+2+6+7+6+8+9=47    47/8=5.875=~5.9   Let's round up to 6, so 6/10=60% or a D- for a cumulative score.

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by TonyTricicolo

[Toraak]

1 hour ago, TonyTricicolo said:

Overall, I give the season a D-

  Reveal hidden contents

Epi 1- 5/10 not good, not bad but an even baseline score to judge the rest on

Epi 2- 4/10 Some awkward moments.

Epi 3- 2/10 Put me to sleep.

Epi 4- 6/10 slightly better than the first because of a few highlights

Epi 5- 7/10 solid good episode

Epi 6- 6/10 a step down due to some anticlimactic moments

Epi 7- 8/10 very good, but not great due to a couple of "huh?" questionables

Epi 8- 9/10 great but not perfect. 

 

5+4+2+6+7+6+8+9=47    47/8=5.875=~5.9   Let's round up to 6, so 6/10=60% or a D- for a cumulative score.

 

I agree with this to be honest, except I'd grade the last 2 episodes differently.

 

Episode 7: 6/10

Episode 8: 7/10  

[Balameb]

Well, for last episode ups and downs:

Ups:

Spoiler

Fights: Much better editing and lots of them.

Characters: They all felt more like i think they should (for me). Both Sabine and Ahsoka felt better and particularly Thrawn. Even the few seconds of Hera felt more in line. I know that in series with rotating directors acting is not always that much influenced by them, but i think this time it did, so i will give points to Rick Famuyiwa for this.

Downs:

Spoiler

It is mostly one issue for me: The end and setup for season 2 and watever comes next.

Not that Thrawn actually 'won', i was expecting that; but leaving Ahsoka and Sabine in that galaxy? I mean, next season we will have wasted episodes of them finding how to return. Sure, they can pull an off season tie in, like mandalorian between 2 and 3; but for now it will still be a down point for me.

I know this galaxy will become more important in this new set of stories, including planned Jedi origins movie. But i still don't like it. SW did not needed a new galaxy. Much less when we are talking about ONE planet in an entire 'new' galaxy, just feels pointless.

Not writers or producers fault, but related to the ending and galaxy subject:

It looks like Baylan Skoll character was meant for more into that story. I don't know how i will feel with a different actor taking over the role 

Overall last two episodes were a step up. But not as much as to save the bads from past episodes tho. They still need to step up a lot more for watever comes next.

[Toraak]

My biggest issue is they never should have added the Nightsisters to this show. By Thrawn having access to the powers of the Nightsisters all these years Ezra would have been hunted down and executed within months of getting to that galaxy.

 

Between the powers of the Nightsisters and Thrawns prowess in strategy Ezra would not have survived, especially without a lightsaber.

 

If it was only Thrawns troops you could make a case for Ezra evading them all these years, but not with the magic the nightsisters have.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Toraak

[Jdast]

I wanted to refrain from commenting until I had a chance to watch the entire season, which I completed last night. My overall impression is that the show was -- okay with some moments of being pretty good, but nothing spectacular. My main issue with the show was twofold:

1) The pacing. I understand you want to have some build-up to the storyline but it took way too long. Several of the episodes, notably at the beginning could have been condensed, which would have been easy to do if...

2) They didn't have so many long, drawn-out scenes of Ahsoka tilting her head and staring off into the stars with a pensive look on her face. By the end of episode 2 we got the point that she's the stoic, contemplative former Jedi who still struggles with her past (i.e. relationship with Anakin) but recognizes there is a bigger threat to the galaxy.

But we don't really get to the external threat until the last two episodes, which were decent. Moreover, unless you were familiar with the animated series, you would have no particular reason to think that Grand Admiral Thrawn was such a big deal. 

Dasty

[Jazulfi]

I'm sort of gobsmacked, and not in a good way...

 

Spoiler

It's like this episode was written during a boozy afternoon with mates. "The Jedi, The Witch and Warlord"? An Argonath? A Mt Doom? Are you kidding? In jokes and some elbow nudges to your fanbase - what lazy garbage. This stuff is forgiveable and/or amusing if everything else is top notch quality. It's insultingly terrible as a replacement for that.

They took 8 episodes to basically do b*gg*r all, and left us with a lame collection of 'cliffhangers' which I don't have interest in because they are so insubstantial. This whole series is the worst tissue-thin money spinner. That poor blonde girl - really? She got to raise her light-saber at some bandits. And poor old Ray - what a terrible end to his career.

On the upside - Eman Esfandi is great as older Ezra, and I'd like to see more of him. There's nothing wrong with Natasha Lui Bordizzo as Sabine either, she grew on me, and I still have hope for Dawson, who is still great as a somber adult Ahsoka. All good bits of casting, but eff me they were poorly written for and misused.

So my verdict overall - A Disappointing Pile of Pants  F- [See Me]

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Jazulfi

[Whykara]

1 hour ago, Balameb said:

SW did not needed a new galaxy. Much less when we are talking about ONE planet in an entire 'new' galaxy, just feels pointless.

This is why I don't even bother watching. It's so pointless. There are enough unknown regions in the SW galaxy they could have stranded. And introducing a completely new galaxy just so the droid can say "the line" feels so cheap.

[DWho]

1 hour ago, Jdast said:

But we don't really get to the external threat until the last two episodes, which were decent. Moreover, unless you were familiar with the animated series, you would have no particular reason to think that Grand Admiral Thrawn was such a big deal. 

Or read the Heir to the Empire trilogy by Timothy Zahn