Empire side: Why should I care about loose cannon Shae, or the non-Empire Alliance, & not partner with Malgus instead - Go Full Sith?

[BlackSilverFire]

Empire side:  Why should I care about loose cannon Shae Vizla, or the non-Empire Alliance, and not partner with Malgus instead?  

 

I can't say I care about Shae Vizla as a companion: her methods are crude & sloppy, lacking effectiveness.  She might as well be Tau, merc side.  Malgus, on the other hand, appeals to all that's good & interesting about playing an Empire toon.  He has vision that's spans across the galaxy, while not being so cookie cutter and much more calculating/ clever [not to mention he's much more likeable], like sparring Sa'har's life to find him later, immediately shedding h@cks off like Malora on Ossus, his mysterious relationship with Acina, & recognizing commonalities & irony between The Outlander and himself - way more intriguing dialog.  Overall, I'd take the kill or control Sith amulet option for Shae (for those who still want to use her to kill mobs), while taking the partners in Havoc & Expansion option for Malgus like a breath of fresh air.

 

I'll take conquer worlds throughout the galaxy and destroy republic with Malgus, over being so reactive to someone I'm much better off being with.

 

Can introduce a Plunder (Empire)/ Forage (Republic) system on planets.

 

I never play with pub companions on the Empire side, and the choice is nice for some as we've been pushed into a very much [Unwanted] alliance for many with pubs/ pub companions.  Overall, it is superfluous & hindering to playing a full-fledge Sith.

 

After I clicked:  Rejoin the Empire, I expected (albeit hopefully) that the Alliance would finally dissolve.  Instead of living as a full Sith/ Empire member, I'm still stuck in the Alliance with pubs who need to embrace the darkside/ Empire or get lost - it's hindering immersion & story growth.  Rejoin the Empire: should mean a radical shift back to Empire, like KoToR 1 did beautifully & masterfully at the end after choosing Darkside - the companions either rebelled against you to be slain, or accepted your full darkside ways [to be on the same as you] and became much more interestingly corrupted in dialog, appearance, & {actually compelling} manner, which added a lot of depth & immersion.

 

Instead, I'm still stuck in this Unwanted Alliance which is keeping me from making better moves with much better potential allies To be Hopeful, if I read into the latest text between Outlander and Malgus, the divide won't stay that way forever?

 

 

If a guy can dream, why not add in Sith armored Arcann as my Lt/ right hand (or Acina/ powered up Sa'har) and have a nostalgic KoToR II Triumvirate powerhouse across the galaxy?

Smarter choices.

(What immersion that'd be.)

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by BlackSilverFire

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Whether you should care about Shae Vizla, or the non-Empire Alliance, or Malgus is entirely up to you and your opinions on those things. There's no right or wrong answer there. It's just about how you feel.

Personally, I like Shae (I have a thing for Red heads), and having the Mandalorians as allies can be useful. Certainly better than having them as enemies at any rate. Though I wouldn't hesitate to kill them if they gave me a reason.

The Alliance is stupid as hell, I want nothing to do with it, I never did. I never wanted (and I still don't) to be a leader of any faction. I'm not a leader, I'm a soldier and I just want to serve the Sith Empire  The only time I want to be around Jedi and Pubs is when I'm killing them. They're my enemy.

I couldn't wait to get back to the Empire, and I jumped at the chance when the option to go back was given. I don't have problem bending the  knee to the rightful leader of the Sith Empire. I'm no Emperor, I'm fine with being the 'Darth Vader' of the story. It doesn't matter to me who I've killed, what heights I've risen to, that doesn't make me feel I deserve to be in charge of the Sith Empire. I don't want to be. I don't like sitting in big chairs and ordering other people to go out and have all the fun. I wanna do the fighting.

As far as Malgus is concerned, as far as I'm concerned, he is a traitor to the Sith Empire twice over, and I don't like people whom I've killed to keep popping up. I don't like him, he pisses me off, and I would love to take his head off my shoulders. I don't like being forced to keep him alive. He's of no use to me and he's my enemy, and Sith don't let there enemies live especially when they already have them at their mercy.

I don't need him to take conquer worlds throughout the galaxy and destroy republic, I'll do it without him. He can't be trusted to even serve the aims of the Sith Empire. He's a liability to the Sith Empire, which is why he needs to go.

2 hours ago, BlackSilverFire said:

If a guy can dream, why not add in Sith armored Arcann as my Lt/ right hand (or Acina/ powered up Sa'har) and have a nostalgic KoToR II Triumvirate powerhouse across the galaxy?

Smarter choices.

(What immersion that'd be.)

My thoughts on that are -

I killed Arcann as he was an enemy of the Sith Empire. You attack the Sith Empire, you die. Period.

Sith don't share power. As Lucas said, Sith/Darksiders are selfish and they are greedy. They only respect the strongest among them and they will kill each other until there is only one left to fill the top spot who is the undisputed master of the rest of them.

"There was never a war between the Jedi and the Sith Lords. The Sith lords were in control for a long time. And what happens when you have a world full of Sith Lords? They start killing each other to see who's going to be the top Sith Lord. They don't vote; they just kill. It's the medieval feudal system."

~ George Lucas Interview form Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan, 2020

..

I couldn't stand KOTOR with all that 'grey jedi' crap. Totally not in keeping with Lucas's vision (but, to be fair, neither is this game). That stuff broke immersion for me. I was grateful this game wasn't just KOTOR 3. Had it been, I wouldn't have even tried the game, let alone played it for over 10 years. But, I'm a stikler for Lucas's vision. Not everyone is. I can accept some of the differences over here as they're not quite as glaring and as MMOs go, this is all there is and I need my fix!

But, if you liked the KOTOR series, you liked it. There's no accounting for taste. We might have a different take on some of these things, but, If that works for you, more power to you. Besides, that's what head-canon is for. To try and make things seem closer to what you would like them to be. Ultimately, It's about having fun and that's what game are for.

We should be able to express our opinions, even wherein they may differ, so we can see how other people who are sharing the same experience as we are see things. As long as it's respectful, differences in opinion are fine.

I enjoyed reading your take on things and how you felt about them.

I'm totally with you on the Alliance stuff. 😉

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[eabevella]

Because it is a MMO whether we like it or not, for good or bad. 

The story team can't have many diversities of a main story line like a single player RPG because they have to make the main story more or less fit all the players sharing a world.

If it's up to me, I'll say f the Republic and Empire and go independent on Odessen but oh well...

[SteveTheCynic]

6 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

"There was never a war between the Jedi and the Sith Lords. The Sith lords were in control for a long time. And what happens when you have a world full of Sith Lords? They start killing each other to see who's going to be the top Sith Lord. They don't vote; they just kill. It's the medieval feudal system."

~ George Lucas Interview form Star Wars Archives 1999-2005 by Paul Duncan, 2020

Ol' George didn't know much about the feudal system, I guess.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Ol' George didn't know much about the feudal system, I guess.

I just go with what the man says.

 

5 hours ago, eabevella said:

If it's up to me, I'll say f the Republic and Empire and go independent on Odessen but oh well...

Yeah, I know some peeps think too much Rep vs. Imp is not to their liking.

It's too bad they didn't have enough resources to make a story line for those that liked the Alliance and the whole being independent faction thingy.

That would have been ideal, make everyone happy that way.

Some peeps I think saw it as downgrade. Going from being the leader of The Alliance back to being answerable to the leader of the Empire or the Republic.

Making the player Ruler of the universe kinda paints you into a corner, cuz really, where do you go from there?

It's really hard to justify Emperor's going on commando missions. 😋

I think that's why they named in 'The Alliance' because most strategic alliances are temporary. I think that was their way of trying to let players know not to get too comfortable with the arrangement.

Plus you had idiots like me who were chafing at the bit to get back to Imp vs. Pub.

Edited June 25, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[eabevella]

48 minutes ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

I just go with what the man says.

 

Yeah, I know some peeps think too much Rep vs. Imp is not to their liking.

It's too bad they didn't have enough resources to make a story line for those that liked the Alliance and the whole being independent faction thingy.

That would have been ideal, make everyone happy that way.

Some peeps I think saw it as downgrade. Going from being the leader of The Alliance back to being answerable to the leader of the Empire or the Republic.

Making the player Ruler of the universe kinda paints you into a corner, cuz really, where do you go from there?

It's really hard to justify Emperor's going on commando missions. 😋

I think that's why they named in 'The Alliance' because most strategic alliances are temporary. I think that was their way of trying to let players know not to get too comfortable with the arrangement.

Plus you had idiots like me who were chafing at the bit to get back to Imp vs. Pub.

I won't mind going back to the Republic/Empire if there is actual progress.

My Sith become Emperor/Empress or actual head of the Dark Council.

Agent takes over/set up a new Interference that counters the Sith.

BH takes over the Mandalore seat.

My Jedi become the Grand Master of the Order.

Trooper becomes Supreme Commander.

Smuggler picks up their old Pirate King/Republic's biggest privateer.

Or be an independent planet/government head tackles things regarding the Unknown Region.

You know, things that's new story-wise. But back to my earlier reply, since it's a MMO, none of this is possible so we're back to the old Empire vs Republic thing with less charismatic NPCs and ~0 class specific flavor.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Yeah, the lack of class specific story additions makes the immersion factor hard to deal with at times. It seems to be a bone to pick with many players (myself included).

It's sought of like having to eat spaghetti without any sauce. 🤨

[BlackSilverFire]

  

On 6/25/2023 at 6:37 AM, eabevella said:

I won't mind going back to the Republic/Empire if there is actual progress.

My Sith become Emperor/Empress or actual head of the Dark Council.

Agent takes over/set up a new Interference that counters the Sith.

BH takes over the Mandalore seat.

My Jedi become the Grand Master of the Order.

Trooper becomes Supreme Commander.

Smuggler picks up their old Pirate King/Republic's biggest privateer.

Or be an independent planet/government head tackles things regarding the Unknown Region.

You know, things that's new story-wise. But back to my earlier reply, since it's a MMO, none of this is possible so we're back to the old Empire vs Republic thing with less charismatic NPCs and ~0 class specific flavor.

+1 to such a sensible Class Progression system.  I don't like Shae; the BH taking over as Mandalore would be great.  Satele Shan really isn't an active Grand Master; ye, better off with progressing toons into those^ areas, makes a lot of sense and looks fun & sustainable.  

 

On 6/25/2023 at 9:12 AM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, the lack of class specific story additions makes the immersion factor hard to deal with at times. It seems to be a bone to pick with many players (myself included).

It's sought of like having to eat spaghetti without any sauce. 🤨

+1 Well put, exactly.  Perhaps, ^eabevella's proposal is a good countermeasure towards steps in the right direction (looks like a pretty good solution).  At this point, even just seeing little things like Arcann in new Sith/ Jedi style armors would go a long way (as many of us think of the Eternal Empire as ancient history).

[TahliahCOH]

Yeah, not a Shae fan. But we have what we have, and it's dumb. I'll just be happy when they fix Blood Hunt so that Shae is not commenting on being "Torch" while poking out her arm . . .. and nothing happens. There is no fire animation at all.

Shae doesn't fit in with any of my toons, including the bounty hunters. I just wish she would go away.

[OlBuzzard]

A few thoughts:

** Shae:  I'm not sure what has changed ... but something did!  When we first met her she was a force to be reckoned with and anything but foolish.  She wasn't a loose cannon filled with blind vengeance recklessly engaged in tactics that can only end up in disaster.  Perhaps this is just the writers way of preparing the audience for yet another character exodus.  (Some will welcome it ... others will not.)

** Malgus ...[/facepalm]  one of these days dead people will be ... well  ... you know ... DEAD!  Who pasted his butt back together anyhow?  Just like Disneys decision to mysteriously regenerate the emperor (and poorly done at that time I might add).  As far as his involvement with the empire ... IIRC he tried to take it all for himself.  That should have left more than a few people glad to see his exodus (within the Empire let alone in the Republic).  I still think that the whole resurrection out of the dust just leaves too many unanswered questions to buy it entirely.  (Just my opinion).
** Third party story??  The entire matter of the Alliance can be debated indefinitely.  I personally don't have a problem with it AS LONG AS ..  we are given the ability to transition into a position of working for that alliance without necessarily being at the top of the food chain.  A JK (for example) might be looking for a way to rebuild the order without necessarily returning to Republic.  If you look at the different story lines it seems as though there are Jedi temples scattered throughout the galaxy.  Sooo why not one on Odessen?  IN other words once Vitiate has been defeated there really shouldn't be the necessity for that character to feel obligated to hold THAT kind of authority.  IMO this sort of transition could easily be utilized for all of the different class stories.
I also see the 3rd party view point as independent planets / systems that are frequently caught up the on-going battle for control of the galaxy.  Some people just want to enjoy their freedom without a Sith (or their forces) there to watch over them (like big brother).
** Return to the class stories ... IMO there has to be some sort of acknowledgment of those initial classes.  So many people here have posted excellent discussions on this .. so I won't bore anyone to tears extending my particular dissertation any more than it already has on this subject.
** I might also add that if anyone particular race or group spends so much of their time killing each other off (as does the Sith) ... the one flaw in the resurrection of Malgus is WHO (in any position of real power) would want him alive?  (Yeah ... I'm gonna catch it over this one!)
** The Mandalorians ... frankly ... Shae is fine IF (and ONLY if) the writers return her to the person we knew a long time ago!  If not .. then someone (a Mandalorian) will step in and take over as Mandalor.  Who knows ... maybe even Jekiah could step in for a while?  There is still a lot of turbulent history for the Mandos in the next 1000+ years.  IMO this is more of a writers issue than anything else.  Just depends on how they want to tell the story.
** One thing is for certain .. pushing the game to a one size fits all response definitely took away a lot more than it added.  Sure it save the company a lot of money ... but in the end it cost them a lot more than they gained!

EVEN if things picked up where we are now ... and moved forward (even if the alliance were left intact) the characters we have developed over the years could easily decide to "Do what they do best" ...  
** A smuggler will always need a place to call home (if you catch my drift)
** A Sith who is returning to take over the Empire might just need an extra hand to feel the pulse of the galaxy without being noticed.  
** A JK might could always use a place that is as in tune with the force as it is on Odessen.

IMO .. it just depends on how the writers what to run with it.  

BTW...  some of us would want to keep an eye on that Sith too!

😉

[recalcitrantIre]

On 6/25/2023 at 5:41 PM, eabevella said:

The story team can't have many diversities of a main story line like a single player RPG because they have to make the main story more or less fit all the players sharing a world.

disregarding the fact that they've introduced several mutually exclusive story options and have made zero effort to reconcile any of them into a globally fitting "core narrative"

maybe at some point in the future if the game does go completely belly-up, they'll decide a singular core "canon" out of the multiplicity of possibilities but until then, the story is just going to keep splintering further

On 6/25/2023 at 10:44 PM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, I know some peeps think too much Rep vs. Imp is not to their liking.

not sure how anyone can sincerely say this game has too much republic vs empire content

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 hour ago, OlBuzzard said:

A JK (for example) might be looking for a way to rebuild the order without necessarily returning to Republic.  If you look at the different story lines it seems as though there are Jedi temples scattered throughout the galaxy.  Sooo why not one on Odessen? 

Just a little nitpick here, if you don't mind (and as always, with respect).

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."

Even if we say a generation is 30 years, that's 30,000 years they served the Republic. The game takes place in the Old Republic.

They're called 'Knights' for a reason. Knights serve the realm.

I'm not a fan of this 'Jedi not serving the Republic' notion that some people like to go to. And I'm not trying to force anyone into a way of thinking. People can have whatever head-canon they want.

It's one of the reasons why I was so against the whole Eternal whateverthehell story line. It didn't make much sense for certain classes at all.

Jedi Knights and Republic Troopers, they serve the Republic? That's what they are, they're jobs.

Sith and Operatives not serving the Sith Empire?

Now, if you wanna say, an ex-Jedi or an ex-Sith or a former Republic trooper or an ex-Operative. Okay, that's fine.

But this post  is really just about the Jedi, and the Jedi Order serves the Republic.

Yeah, the game isn't, nor has it ever been part of the Canon. Fair point. So, they don't have to adhere to every little thing. But something as core and fundamental as a New Hope was, which when it came out was just called "Star Wars", things expressly established in the movies and The Clone Wars series, what George Lucas has expressly stated as historical in them, I think that should be respected.

As far as the location of certain Temples? Yeah, sure, you can have them where you want.

And again, people can head-canon whatever they want.

Rant over. 🤪

 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

25 minutes ago, recalcitrantIre said:

not sure how anyone can sincerely say this game has too much republic vs empire content

I do agree with you. Was just more of a general comment.

As far as I'm concerned, you can never have too much Republic vs. Empire. I always want that.

Edited June 27, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[DreadtechSavant]

Well, personally I would not side with Malgus, but I know what you mean

Saboteur story line.

Inquisitor, When can I openly support the Republic

Jonas not yet you're doing to much damage from inside the Empire.

Inquisitor. Either I openly support the republic, or I openly support the Empire. (supporting nether would of been nice as well)

Jonas you can not do that.

Inquisitor Watch me, goodbye.

This is probnerbly how it would have gone, not the saboteur storyline we are getting. 

 

 

Joining Malgus maybe should have been a option, but running 3 story outcomes is just a bridge to far as it must be difficult to do the two we are getting now, considering just how much variation there can be just within those two. For staff running a game/story with limited support from its parent company (EA) it's was never going to get the choice/option to please everyone. 

[OlBuzzard]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:01 PM, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Just a little nitpick here, if you don't mind (and as always, with respect).

"For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire."

Even if we say a generation is 30 years, that's 30,000 years they served the Republic. The game takes place in the Old Republic.

They're called 'Knights' for a reason. Knights serve the realm.

I'm not a fan of this 'Jedi not serving the Republic' notion that some people like to go to. And I'm not trying to force anyone into a way of thinking. People can have whatever head-canon they want.

It's one of the reasons why I was so against the whole Eternal whateverthehell story line. It didn't make much sense for certain classes at all.

Jedi Knights and Republic Troopers, they serve the Republic? That's what they are, they're jobs.

Sith and Operatives not serving the Sith Empire?

Now, if you wanna say, an ex-Jedi or an ex-Sith or a former Republic trooper or an ex-Operative. Okay, that's fine.

But this post  is really just about the Jedi, and the Jedi Order serves the Republic.

Yeah, the game isn't, nor has it ever been part of the Canon. Fair point. So, they don't have to adhere to every little thing. But something as core and fundamental as a New Hope was, which when it came out was just called "Star Wars", things expressly established in the movies and The Clone Wars series, what George Lucas has expressly stated as historical in them, I think that should be respected.

As far as the location of certain Temples? Yeah, sure, you can have them where you want.

And again, people can head-canon whatever they want.

Rant over. 🤪

 

You need to seriously look past the nitpicky and look at a larger picture.  After the Eternal Empire ravished the entire galaxy there were few places to even consider setting up places for the Jedi to start over.  

If you are wanting to rebuild anything ...  you must fist ensure that the foundation is adequately reinforced.  This doesn't take away from the purpose of the order ... it simply helps to give it a place to start until it is ready to stand on its own again.

IMO there was a major difference between blurring all of the story lines together (without question to save money) .. AND both the Republic and the Empire both facing extinction from another more powerful group of force infused egomaniacs  (nothing more than Sith on steroids) whose family was just as twisted and evil as that of Darth Vader / Palpatine.  

If you only focus on either the Republic or even the Sith ... and forget how that impacts everyday people then the message in the story is totally worthless.  I don't care who wrote it!  I also strongly believe that is why some of the other Star Wars stories are gaining popularity (much to the chagrin of a handful of extremist viewers).  People what to see stories like this with a more positive message.  Sure there is often a lot of tragedy in war.  I would personally never forget that.  My own family can testify to that based on very real and personal experiences.  It should also be noted that a lot of people are getting sick of the same old stuff ... "How to kill a Jedi" or "Yet another version of the Skywalker Family Feud".  Why?  Because it sounds like a stuck record!

Yes Star Wars is about the Republic and the Empire .. the Jedi and the Sith.  But if you overlook one of the most important aspects of the story .. the people and HOW those conflicts affect them then you have missed perhaps what many see as one of the most important pieces to the entire story.

The Jedi should always be looking after the Republic.  The Jedi always look to others as allies (if they are smart they will continue to do so too).  The Republic is made of up people (Not just maps and star charts).  

Any how ... probably more than most want to read this evening.  I've been up since 2 AM on a fishing trip ( a good one I might add).  I'll probably just stick around for a bit longer ..

 

 

[eabevella]

10 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

You need to seriously look past the nitpicky and look at a larger picture.  After the Eternal Empire ravished the entire galaxy there were few places to even consider setting up places for the Jedi to start over.  

If you are wanting to rebuild anything ...  you must fist ensure that the foundation is adequately reinforced.  This doesn't take away from the purpose of the order ... it simply helps to give it a place to start until it is ready to stand on its own again.

IMO there was a major difference between blurring all of the story lines together (without question to save money) .. AND both the Republic and the Empire both facing extinction from another more powerful group of force infused egomaniacs  (nothing more than Sith on steroids) whose family was just as twisted and evil as that of Darth Vader / Palpatine.  

If you only focus on either the Republic or even the Sith ... and forget how that impacts everyday people then the message in the story is totally worthless.  I don't care who wrote it!  I also strongly believe that is why some of the other Star Wars stories are gaining popularity (much to the chagrin of a handful of extremist viewers).  People what to see stories like this with a more positive message.  Sure there is often a lot of tragedy in war.  I would personally never forget that.  My own family can testify to that based on very real and personal experiences.  It should also be noted that a lot of people are getting sick of the same old stuff ... "How to kill a Jedi" or "Yet another version of the Skywalker Family Feud".  Why?  Because it sounds like a stuck record!

Yes Star Wars is about the Republic and the Empire .. the Jedi and the Sith.  But if you overlook one of the most important aspects of the story .. the people and HOW those conflicts affect them then you have missed perhaps what many see as one of the most important pieces to the entire story.

The Jedi should always be looking after the Republic.  The Jedi always look to others as allies (if they are smart they will continue to do so too).  The Republic is made of up people (Not just maps and star charts).  

Any how ... probably more than most want to read this evening.  I've been up since 2 AM on a fishing trip ( a good one I might add).  I'll probably just stick around for a bit longer ..

Star Wars need new stories and new perspective.

Eternal Empire itself is an interesting concept, what made a lot of people (me included) not liking it is because the narrow image of their Outlander and Alliance doesn't fit anyone other than a LS JK (really, it couldn't be more clear which class/alignment is the template of the story), when there could be a lot more fitting in the KOTxx era.

They never really wrote how exactly Jedi/Sith Imp/Pub worked together. The Alliance just... worked. Not to mention that 3 of 4 of the Alliance specialists are Republic aligned and Sana-Rae and Voss are "neutral" but closer to the Republic in terms of how they treat things/people. We don't face any difficulty helping/forcing arch enemies working together, which is another big let down.

Then, it's back to the same old Imp vs Pub without the flavor of our character's background. The two sides are not even in the same timeline anymore.

It's like we eat in an Italy restaurant, it had meat ball, a small selection of pasta vs pizza. Than it served only pizza margherita and carbonara. Than it served pizza with... pineapple. Then it went back to pizza margherita and carbonara but one frozen the other out of can. And the menu asked whether you want a slice of American cheese on top of their pizza/carbonara but put it on anyway even you said no.

Can't blame people from feeling disappointed.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

54 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

You need to seriously look past the nitpicky and look at a larger picture.  After the Eternal Empire ravished the entire galaxy there were few places to even consider setting up places for the Jedi to start over.  

If you are wanting to rebuild anything ...  you must fist ensure that the foundation is adequately reinforced.  This doesn't take away from the purpose of the order ... it simply helps to give it a place to start until it is ready to stand on its own again.

IMO there was a major difference between blurring all of the story lines together (without question to save money) .. AND both the Republic and the Empire both facing extinction from another more powerful group of force infused egomaniacs  (nothing more than Sith on steroids) whose family was just as twisted and evil as that of Darth Vader / Palpatine.  

If you only focus on either the Republic or even the Sith ... and forget how that impacts everyday people then the message in the story is totally worthless.  I don't care who wrote it!  I also strongly believe that is why some of the other Star Wars stories are gaining popularity (much to the chagrin of a handful of extremist viewers).  People what to see stories like this with a more positive message.  Sure there is often a lot of tragedy in war.  I would personally never forget that.  My own family can testify to that based on very real and personal experiences.  It should also be noted that a lot of people are getting sick of the same old stuff ... "How to kill a Jedi" or "Yet another version of the Skywalker Family Feud".  Why?  Because it sounds like a stuck record!

Yes Star Wars is about the Republic and the Empire .. the Jedi and the Sith.  But if you overlook one of the most important aspects of the story .. the people and HOW those conflicts affect them then you have missed perhaps what many see as one of the most important pieces to the entire story.

The Jedi should always be looking after the Republic.  The Jedi always look to others as allies (if they are smart they will continue to do so too).  The Republic is made of up people (Not just maps and star charts).  

Any how ... probably more than most want to read this evening.  I've been up since 2 AM on a fishing trip ( a good one I might add).  I'll probably just stick around for a bit longer ..

 

 

Yeah, I agree with all of that. No issues there.

It just seemed like it was being said that the Jedi Order should be separate from the Republic is all.

They can set up shop where ever they want. Certainly they need to be on the Capital planet, but they can have temples anywhere. And if it's not safe to be on the capital planet at all, than they could just have like one emissary from the Order there in hiding to act as a go between.

While I personally like it to be Empire vs. Republic, if they wanted to take a break from that for a while, ummm, okay, that's fine I guess, but it shouldn't stay that way forever.

Whether or not a story is good or bad, that's totally subjective. Even plot concepts are subjective. Some people will like them, some people won't. You're never gonna please everyone. They can write stories on any number of subjects and it doesn't always have to be typical ones.

I just can't abide things that contradict canonical standards that Lucas set down. It doesn't have to be about his stuff, but I'm not cool with any writer saying he was wrong about Star Wars.

Otherwise things can just become something totally different to what he created and than it wouldn't be Star Wars at all in my opinion.

I didn't like the Eternal whateverthehell storyline (although it was excellently done in form), and yeah, to a large extent that was because we couldn't even be in the Empire or the Republic at all, but I didn't leave the game over it, I bided my time confident that it wouldn't be a permanent state of affairs. Had they said it was going to be permanent, I definitely would have quit the game over it.

And if they ever said something Lucas set down was not true, I would definitely leave the game over it.

Other writers have the right to tell whatever other stories they want, even if I don't like them, but they don't have the right to say Lucas was wrong about Star Wars. I don't care who owns Star Wars. No one has that right as far as I am concerned.

And just for the record, I'm not saying or implying you are saying that. I don't think you are saying that, and from your response here, I wonder if perhaps I took your previous post out of context or misunderstood it,  and if I did, I apologize.

And listen, even if you were fine with totally contradicting Lucas and changing things, at worst it would just be something we disagreed on. I know some people don't care about that and would be fine with that and they have the right to hold that opinion. It just wouldn't be one I would agree with or would tolerate from the producer of such a story and continue to give them my money.

Knowing that Lucas wrote his own Sequel Trilogy that Disney bought and lead him to believe they may do, but choose not to, kicked him to the curb after they had him on board as an advisor for the Sequel Trilogy after a few months very early on, for me that means they are contradicting what Lucas says happens after Return of the Jedi in the Sequels so I didn't go to the movies to watch the Disney Sequels, I wouldn't give them my money for them. I waited until I could stream them for free and watch online. Which I'm glad I did because I don't like spending money on things that make me sick and want to puke.

There are plenty of people who are fine with the Sequels, don't care that Lucas wrote his own Sequels that Disney bought but didn't use his story line (although they did use some stuff from it.), and even like the Disney Sequels. And that's their right. I gainsay no one who feels that way. I just don't agree with their opinion is all.

People can like whatever they want.

Edited June 28, 2023 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[OlBuzzard]

4 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Star Wars need new stories and new perspective.

Eternal Empire itself is an interesting concept, what made a lot of people (me included) not liking it is because the narrow image of their Outlander and Alliance doesn't fit anyone other than a LS JK (really, it couldn't be more clear which class/alignment is the template of the story), when there could be a lot more fitting in the KOTxx era.

They never really wrote how exactly Jedi/Sith Imp/Pub worked together. The Alliance just... worked. Not to mention that 3 of 4 of the Alliance specialists are Republic aligned and Sana-Rae and Voss are "neutral" but closer to the Republic in terms of how they treat things/people. We don't face any difficulty helping/forcing arch enemies working together, which is another big let down.

Then, it's back to the same old Imp vs Pub without the flavor of our character's background. The two sides are not even in the same timeline anymore.

It's like we eat in an Italy restaurant, it had meat ball, a small selection of pasta vs pizza. Than it served only pizza margherita and carbonara. Than it served pizza with... pineapple. Then it went back to pizza margherita and carbonara but one frozen the other out of can. And the menu asked whether you want a slice of American cheese on top of their pizza/carbonara but put it on anyway even you said no.

Can't blame people from feeling disappointed.

IMO one of the single biggest (and most disruptive) aspects of the entire KotFE / ET matter from just the story standpoint was smashing all 8 stories into one.  There again .. so much was swept aside.  Companions?  Relationships?  One size fits all ... And I hope you like playing the part of a character with some serious issues overlaid with a twisted version of the force (on steroids).  In short the KotFE / ET idea of an outside force hammering the Republic AND the Sith was a good one (initially) ... but it also left behind the idea of it's connection to the Star Wars universe.  It was one thing for the Empire and the Republic to be made subjugated to Vitiate and his family (at least for a time) ... but removing the overall SW saga was probably a mistake.

I DO get it about the entire KotFE / ET story line.  I really do!  But at the end of the day what happened to the core of SWTOR?   IMO it was fractured.  It is true that we've seen a slight return to the ideals of some of the game ... but there again it seems to be slipping away.  

SWTOR NEEDS the class stories! 

To tie this in with the OP ...  Stop and think about it.  Shae has turned into someone whom I barely recognize.  Had she came across the way she is now I might have chosen to simply walk away (assuming we actually had that option).   As for the alliance .. I like it ... but not as a substituted story in place of the Republic.  Now that Zakul has been dealt with the alliance should either support the Empire or the Republic.  It's just that simple.  

BTW...  I can especially understand how that someone who is playing the role of a totally badxxx Sith just chomping at the bit waiting for the opportunity to get rid of Malgus!  And for that matter in some cases Shae (as well as Heta) will be on the hit list of any self-respecting Sith.  If I were that kind of a Sith ...I'd be playing the two ends toward the middle and be waiting for the right moment to finish off anyone left still alive after the conflict  (Aka ... The Last Rat Standing).   But that's just me!

[eabevella]

29 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

IMO one of the single biggest (and most disruptive) aspects of the entire KotFE / ET matter from just the story standpoint was smashing all 8 stories into one.  There again .. so much was swept aside.  Companions?  Relationships?  One size fits all ... And I hope you like playing the part of a character with some serious issues overlaid with a twisted version of the force (on steroids).  In short the KotFE / ET idea of an outside force hammering the Republic AND the Sith was a good one (initially) ... but it also left behind the idea of it's connection to the Star Wars universe.  It was one thing for the Empire and the Republic to be made subjugated to Vitiate and his family (at least for a time) ... but removing the overall SW saga was probably a mistake.

I DO get it about the entire KotFE / ET story line.  I really do!  But at the end of the day what happened to the core of SWTOR?   IMO it was fractured.  It is true that we've seen a slight return to the ideals of some of the game ... but there again it seems to be slipping away.  

SWTOR NEEDS the class stories! 

To tie this in with the OP ...  Stop and think about it.  Shae has turned into someone whom I barely recognize.  Had she came across the way she is now I might have chosen to simply walk away (assuming we actually had that option).   As for the alliance .. I like it ... but not as a substituted story in place of the Republic.  Now that Zakul has been dealt with the alliance should either support the Empire or the Republic.  It's just that simple.  

BTW...  I can especially understand how that someone who is playing the role of a totally badxxx Sith just chomping at the bit waiting for the opportunity to get rid of Malgus!  And for that matter in some cases Shae (as well as Heta) will be on the hit list of any self-respecting Sith.  If I were that kind of a Sith ...I'd be playing the two ends toward the middle and be waiting for the right moment to finish off anyone left still alive after the conflict  (Aka ... The Last Rat Standing).   But that's just me!

Agree.

It's like the first line of Romance of the Three Kingdoms: the power bases allied and divided in time, this is the way. Very bad translation, but yeah, the idea of the Empire and Republic are forced to work together is cool, but the story should go somewhere new after a while. But the problem is the story and characters goes nowhere. Our characters become less than we used to be at the end of their class stories. We are but an empty shell of a Force/Tech user doing meaningless tasks in an empty shell of an Empire/Republic.

The Empire and the Republic aren't even fighting the same war - the post 6.0 Empire and Republic are in parallel universes, and the further away the two parallel universes go, the less possibilities of the story makes sense - because they only write 1 story and swap faction names, not even 2 actual alternative stories. This format makes sure nothing meaningful can happen: the Republic can't make a killing blow to the Empire and vice versa. We won't see the Empire declining and going out in a bang nor the Republic slowly marching to victory because the developers are afraid of writing a good story that take the players somewhere (and of course to save budget). They will keep doing non-consequential things until the game shut down and we won't even get a proper ending.

PS: none of my characters will tolerate a space Karen demanding to see the manager because she's not on the VIP list.

[Sarova]

On 6/25/2023 at 1:12 AM, BlackSilverFire said:

Empire side:  Why should I care about loose cannon Shae Vizla, or the non-Empire Alliance, and not partner with Malgus instead?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope this is an option for a dark-side Sith, especially given the conversation between my force character and Malgus in the latest story.  This story option, however, would not make sense for non-force users, which was the major problem with KotFE/KotET (non-force users should have had Lana play a bigger role in their version of the story as the only other non-killable main character companion force user in the alliance.  If they allow Sith characters to align with Malgus, a separate story option for non-force characters should be added akin to class stories.  

[OlBuzzard]

9 hours ago, eabevella said:

Agree.

It's like the first line of Romance of the Three Kingdoms: the power bases allied and divided in time, this is the way. Very bad translation, but yeah, the idea of the Empire and Republic are forced to work together is cool, but the story should go somewhere new after a while. But the problem is the story and characters goes nowhere. Our characters become less than we used to be at the end of their class stories. We are but an empty shell of a Force/Tech user doing meaningless tasks in an empty shell of an Empire/Republic.

The Empire and the Republic aren't even fighting the same war - the post 6.0 Empire and Republic are in parallel universes, and the further away the two parallel universes go, the less possibilities of the story makes sense - because they only write 1 story and swap faction names, not even 2 actual alternative stories. This format makes sure nothing meaningful can happen: the Republic can't make a killing blow to the Empire and vice versa. We won't see the Empire declining and going out in a bang nor the Republic slowly marching to victory because the developers are afraid of writing a good story that take the players somewhere (and of course to save budget). They will keep doing non-consequential things until the game shut down and we won't even get a proper ending.

PS: none of my characters will tolerate a space Karen demanding to see the manager because she's not on the VIP list.

YUP!

BTW... that is what primarily lead me to come to the Bob Newhart conclusion for the closing episode!

ALSO:  for many of us we also have Lana being a lot more benevolent (like she use to be when we first met her).  IMO why is it that we only see things deteriorate to the dark side?  Turning to the LS only seems to happen if someone is dead (or dying).  The idea of turning from the dark side which is frequently portrayed as evil (as it should be) ...  to the light side is seldom seen as positive?  Kind of odd really.  I would personally see Lana making that choice to turn to the LS (that seems to follow closer to her reaching out to Theron).  I know ...I get it!  Make everyone dark side and the universe is a better place!  NO!  Just simply NO!

When making a similar application to Malgus and the Empire ... (to keep things consistent) ... the Republic is not his only problem.  There would be key players from the Empire wanting to deal with him as well!  From a mystery novel standpoint of view this could take some really interesting twists and turns:  kind of like the old slight-of-hand shell trick trying to figure out what (or who) is really behind the story.  I'm not so sure that there will be that sort of conclusion to what we have now.  The possibilities are definitely there.  And from the standpoint of a Sith ..  I'm not so sure just how much patience would be actually exercised.  Sitting on my hands the entire time might not be the approach I'd use!  If the Mandalorians weren't interested in my offer ...  I might just set a trap for the whole bunch and be done with it !  ( for example).  While I might toy with the idea of what Malgus is up to ... TOYING with him would definitely be my approach. In other words, I'd LET HIM think that his evil little plan was working as planned ... set a trap ... THEN spring the trap!  (BTW ..the Empire setting traps does fit the SW genre).

Parallel universe ... probably a means of developing a story where neither side is offended.  There is a LOT of people that would be outraged if the Empire lost ... AGAIN ( Please see the conclusion of two sets of trilogies) 

[TahliahCOH]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:00 PM, OlBuzzard said:

BTW...  some of us would want to keep an eye on that Sith too!

She's up to no good.

[TahliahCOH]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:00 PM, OlBuzzard said:

** Shae:  I'm not sure what has changed ... but something did!  When we first met her she was a force to be reckoned with and anything but foolish.  She wasn't a loose cannon filled with blind vengeance recklessly engaged in tactics that can only end up in disaster.  Perhaps this is just the writers way of preparing the audience for yet another character exodus.  (Some will welcome it ... others will not.)

Yes, it's disappointing that they turned her into . . . this. She wasn't really supposed to be part of the ongoing story I don't think (didn't they retire her as a comp at some point), but I think the devs mistook player enthusiasm for her damage as a comp for interest in her becoming a wild-eyed lunatic with no regard for her own people, only for her vendetta. Ugh.

[eabevella]

2 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

YUP!

BTW... that is what primarily lead me to come to the Bob Newhart conclusion for the closing episode!

ALSO:  for many of us we also have Lana being a lot more benevolent (like she use to be when we first met her).  IMO why is it that we only see things deteriorate to the dark side?  Turning to the LS only seems to happen if someone is dead (or dying).  The idea of turning from the dark side which is frequently portrayed as evil (as it should be) ...  to the light side is seldom seen as positive?  Kind of odd really.  I would personally see Lana making that choice to turn to the LS (that seems to follow closer to her reaching out to Theron).  I know ...I get it!  Make everyone dark side and the universe is a better place!  NO!  Just simply NO!

When making a similar application to Malgus and the Empire ... (to keep things consistent) ... the Republic is not his only problem.  There would be key players from the Empire wanting to deal with him as well!  From a mystery novel standpoint of view this could take some really interesting twists and turns:  kind of like the old slight-of-hand shell trick trying to figure out what (or who) is really behind the story.  I'm not so sure that there will be that sort of conclusion to what we have now.  The possibilities are definitely there.  And from the standpoint of a Sith ..  I'm not so sure just how much patience would be actually exercised.  Sitting on my hands the entire time might not be the approach I'd use!  If the Mandalorians weren't interested in my offer ...  I might just set a trap for the whole bunch and be done with it !  ( for example).  While I might toy with the idea of what Malgus is up to ... TOYING with him would definitely be my approach. In other words, I'd LET HIM think that his evil little plan was working as planned ... set a trap ... THEN spring the trap!  (BTW ..the Empire setting traps does fit the SW genre).

Parallel universe ... probably a means of developing a story where neither side is offended.  There is a LOT of people that would be outraged if the Empire lost ... AGAIN ( Please see the conclusion of two sets of trilogies) 

I wish we can affect Lana/Theron like the KOTOR2 system where you can turn your companions according to your alignment and influence (well Jessa has LS/DS but it's an one time choice thing and both are cringe examples of both extreme and lack depth). Both of them have the potential of being turned and that would be very interesting if the developers spend more time on developing at least the core two companions.

At this point I just hope Malgus won't turn out to be the opposite of nut-job Revan and wants to turn everyone into Jedi/Sith. I don't particularly like him (back stab me once, forever my enemy) but I hope he can regain his dignity in his possibly last fight. It's strange for a Sith toon to tolerate Malgus just sitting there, most Sith will just start zapping. They can always re-install the brain-washing implants. It's even strange for a former Cipher Agent since they are supposed to be trained in the art of torture (and I hate how they made my agent looked like an amateur in the interrogation scene).

Well, the Empire will lose eventually. But with good writing, characters, and stories, the losing side could have the most memorable moments.

[LanceDefender]

End this annoying mando arc already. Kill Shae, Heta, Chain leaders, make Jekiah new Mandalore and make Dar'Manda allies to alliance who made a deal with Bask on Ruhnuk.
I don't cara at all about mandos.
I care about Malgus stuff.
And yes, I want to join Malgus as well. Last update made a hint of possibility about it? Or again, they just tease it only to not make it happen. Which is their standard way of action.