Annihlation/watchmen in PvP

[BurningGrim]

You guys seriously need to take a hard look at the pvp stats out their for class's Because trying to use Anni/watchmen in warzones is just a disaster! 
yet meanwhile, Innovative ordinance, Madness, Hatred, pyro and lethality and Vengence are all just beating everything, now im aware half the argument is "ooh just swap to one of those class's you'll have more fun" 

but my argument here is why in the hell are EVERY other DoT spec in the game right now able to pump out so much dmg and win 1v1's yet annilation gets slapped fluff dmg. 

for example i can go on pyro, leth, hatred, madness or veng and absolutely devestate a Sorc healer. yet i go on a annilation mara/sent watchmen and for the life of me cant get that healer below 60% 
to allow for fairness i used to same gear across all DoT spec's and this was warzones. 

my argument and my issue here is Innovative ordinance, vengence and lethality all act the same. 
where as Hatred, madness and anni act the same. 

you do dmg, you get heals. 
great! so why is it a sin or sorc DoT's can out do annih's dmg, do it from range and survive longer... yet ANNIH is melee. my whole argument is shouldnt melee, be able to preform better in melee than range class's? 

Edited June 11, 2023 by BurningGrim

[SentinalMasterWW]

I mean I'm not the greatest Mara player but I've gone multiple matches without dying. In fact I've gone 67-4 with watchman on Voidstar. The spec is far from terrible, it's solid. 

I mean if you are struggling to kill a sorc healer are you using your interupt ability on them? It's really useful in PVP, I use interupt constantly in PVP to down players. A lot of the big healing abilities are casted so using interupt is key to downing healers. 

Are you also using Berserk? It crits DOT dmg and heals you for them. 

Even than using merciless slash on cool down can do some big boy DMG. 

I have basic 332 gear and the mara packages alongside the single Target tactical, and I can do solid with it. 

To me it just sounds like you need more practice with Anni. 

 

 

[krackcommando]

5 hours ago, BurningGrim said:

Innovative ordinance, Madness, Hatred, pyro and lethality and Vengence are all just beating everything,

lol wut? IO is better than Arsenal, but mentioning IO in the same breath as Madness and Lethality is laughable. putting any other spec in the same sentence with Madness and Lethality is laughable. and really dude...Pyro over AP?

fwiw: juggernauts are kind of plague on WZs and have been for a long time. nothing remotely as bad as Madness sorcs and Lethality ops (or op dps in general), but that's b/c every single spec of jugg is incredibly easy to play. and I believe dots will still tic ED? but again, they're just stupid easy to play. think of them like mercs (reflect you can get around, pseudo passive heal that you cannot really get around, and a dmg reduction shield with some perks). like merc, the dps specs are stupid easy to play. it's really just a rotation from leap to burst/spread. but they're the "awesome sauce" class of the "reg star," so to speak.

there are so few sin in the game at this point that know how to make hatred work without melting in 4 gcd that I have to imagine you just closed your eyes, spun a wheel, and it landed on hatred. but yes, if executed perfectly by someone who knows what he's doing, it's a spec that can steal your life bar out from under you. there's about 15 of those players in the entire game at this point. I wouldn't worry about it.

pyro. lul. if a PT goes pyro, I will thank him kindly. again, is this just a dot spec thing with you? or the aforementioned wheel?

vengeance. yeah. jugg dps.  I don't like them, but broken? lol. c'mmon man.

fwiw2: I don't know much about anni in this meta at all, but you have 2 other specs that ball out: learn to carnage (much like hatred) and you're a god. but there's a skill floor. fury, on the other hand, is the gods gift to melee burst. hella good deeps for arena or WZ. iunno. I think you're off your rocker.

Edited June 12, 2023 by krackcommando

[Beyrahl]

Doing good in a match doesn't quite change the fact the spec isn't really good at anything when it comes to PvP.
Its damage is completely reliant on uptime with basically no burst, not ideal for PvP in general but it can easily be better if they wanted it to be. When making a direct comparison for annihilation to other dot specs everything can hit harder, have an easier time with uptime, and generally have a better damage profile. 
A lot of annihilation damage is slash with the rupture tactical refreshing it, leaving it pretty prone to falling behind simply due to uptime issues. But I did recommend multiple times before having the vicious throw implant also give an auto critical to annihilate after dual saber throw, this would give it some much-needed burst. They could even add it in as a passive overall if they wanted to, annihilate used to hurt now it rarely even crits. It'd also give some nuance to the spec of making good use of the Dual saber throw and resetting it. 
But that's not even the main issue with annihilation and why its damage profile just isn't great for PvP. Let's say you run into a lethality operative, they already have -30% DoT DR so you're immediately already losing damage passively, then you want to apply dots/rend which can be purged by Evasion instantly and you'd often run into annihilate after applying dots which will just get evaded. terrible, so much so you just don't really hit them because of it as annihilation. There are many instances where people can just purge, get away, and or otherwise be immune to your only real damage window. 

Annihilation felt really good when annihilate still hit for something, it felt even better when rupture on its own was just good, it felt best imo when force rends weren't a thing, it's such a short dot with only 2 chances to spread if played perfectly; which I challenge you to actually get spreads on annihilation, it's going to be more of a dps loss most of the time attempting to do so. The identity of being a dot spec is so much so in question for the spec because of the heavy reliance on rupture tactical and slash spam for sustain and its alternatives are so much weaker. At the end of the day, anything can work in regs and everyone experience's vary, but I think everyone can agree Annihilation just doesn't compare to its peers nor does it compare to what it used to be either. 

Wishlist.
Daulsaber throw proc auto critical for annihilate.
Deadly saber spreadable by DST / Sweeping slash.
Smash / Rend fused into a new smash.
Ravage given some love, made better and or more important to use as its terrible as is.
Force scream? If you wanna prune this was fine to take, still there though. Some importance would be nice and help it's rotational identity outside of spamming slash.
Rupture tactical including Sweeping slash as refresh, if it's to remain this could easily allow it to do way more AoE like its peers.
0meter leap, really just want the animation back. There's like no negatives to this. 

[BurningGrim]

On 6/12/2023 at 2:24 AM, krackcommando said:

lol wut? IO is better than Arsenal, but mentioning IO in the same breath as Madness and Lethality is laughable. putting any other spec in the same sentence with Madness and Lethality is laughable. and really dude...Pyro over AP?

fwiw: juggernauts are kind of plague on WZs and have been for a long time. nothing remotely as bad as Madness sorcs and Lethality ops (or op dps in general), but that's b/c every single spec of jugg is incredibly easy to play. and I believe dots will still tic ED? but again, they're just stupid easy to play. think of them like mercs (reflect you can get around, pseudo passive heal that you cannot really get around, and a dmg reduction shield with some perks). like merc, the dps specs are stupid easy to play. it's really just a rotation from leap to burst/spread. but they're the "awesome sauce" class of the "reg star," so to speak.

there are so few sin in the game at this point that know how to make hatred work without melting in 4 gcd that I have to imagine you just closed your eyes, spun a wheel, and it landed on hatred. but yes, if executed perfectly by someone who knows what he's doing, it's a spec that can steal your life bar out from under you. there's about 15 of those players in the entire game at this point. I wouldn't worry about it.

pyro. lul. if a PT goes pyro, I will thank him kindly. again, is this just a dot spec thing with you? or the aforementioned wheel?

vengeance. yeah. jugg dps.  I don't like them, but broken? lol. c'mmon man.

fwiw2: I don't know much about anni in this meta at all, but you have 2 other specs that ball out: learn to carnage (much like hatred) and you're a god. but there's a skill floor. fury, on the other hand, is the gods gift to melee burst. hella good deeps for arena or WZ. iunno. I think you're off your rocker.

did you just not read any of what i said? im not debating which of the ones above are better, its clear as day. But all of them operate better than Anni/watchmen. so you just wasted your time making that post. 

on the other hand did you read it and immediately take it personally?  
IO operates like Anni. you pop bezerk/supercharge gas you get big DoT dmg. but whilst thats off, or not up you get borderline useless dmg. 
this is the issue at hand. your swapping "burst" for fluff DoT DMG. 
its very easy to get kills in games like Voidstar with dot specs, you apply dots. spread dots let em tick. its why dots can get like 40-50kills on certain match types. but you throw Any of those specs mentioned into 1v1, they will come out on top 9/10 where as Anni, just gets fisted. 
Its got very little to no burst, its DoT's are useless with no Bezerk, its 3% crit heals on dmg is useless, coz you'll heal for 300-800 per tick then with bezerk 1000-4000. yet every class hits you for 20-120k crits. not to mention its a very squishy class and its MELEE so your not escaping. 

yes i will say it does have the BEST Defensive abilities in the game but now you have to choose so its sorta left feeling empty. i whole heartedly believe Anni needs a rework because it does, its burst is meh, its DoT Is pretty meh. and its survivability.. is quite poor. not as poor as shadow's/sins but its not far above. 
and im not saying re-work everything.. but make it more viable for 80 pvp content.

 

and another thing, why are you talking about burst specs? Anni isnt a burst spec and i didnt compare anni to any burst specs... so sounds like your off your rocker? 

Also, it honestly sounds like you havent played any DoT Spec in the last 2 years. Pyro at the moment is VERY GOOD. HATRED is also very good from a dmg perspective yes, they are not META. but they can HOLD THEIR OWN..... I challenge you to sit down learn and play hatred, or Pyro. because they are very good right now. ESPECIALLY PYRO. with the right set up you can get a 80k CRIT with 1 ability and all your dots do like 30k over time with the exception of scorch that does 40k over 30 seconds. and its spammable.... with a range of like 10m

Edited June 14, 2023 by BurningGrim

[krackcommando]

53 minutes ago, BurningGrim said:

did you just not read any of what i said? im not debating which of the ones above are better, its clear as day. But all of them operate better than Anni/watchmen. so you just wasted your time making that post. 

I did not dispute your claims about anni. I was clear that I don't play it nor have I in years.

I took issue with the specific line that was quoted. I do play IO, and I play with and against everything. And I play the game a lot.

On 6/11/2023 at 4:03 PM, BurningGrim said:

You guys seriously need to take a hard look at the pvp stats out their for class's Because trying to use Anni/watchmen in warzones is just a disaster! 
yet meanwhile, Innovative ordinance, Madness, Hatred, pyro and lethality and Vengence are all just beating everything, now im aware half the argument is "ooh just swap to one of those class's you'll have more fun" 

^this, right here, is what I responded to. it's pure hyperbole. "beating everything." not "beating anni" (the only dot spec you didn't mention), but "beating everything." IO isn't beating everything. Pyro isn't beating everything. Pyro isn't even the most dangerous dps in it's own "class." Vengeance? eh. sort of. in so far as the current population is watered down (regs), Veng is able to run wild. Hatred? eh. only in the hands of a select few. otherwise, see comment on Vengeance but to a lesser extent. now Madness and Lethality. that, you can rightfully apply "beating everything." honestly, man. I don't know how this is even a debate. anni is the arse of dot specs. sure. any bozo can parse numbers with a dot spec in WZs where nobody focuses them (except anni?). sure. as is the case with the burst specs.

these facts have nothing to do with your larger point that anni is garbage in relation to other dot specs.

Edited June 14, 2023 by krackcommando

[Eastiano]

Hmm, I out dps all those specs on my anni Mara, not to mention like 4-5k passive hps lol 😂 

[StrikePrice]

Not every spec needs to be equally viable in every situation. Annih is best in many circumstances including operations. It's worst in PvP. That happens. Play a spec that's appropriate to the game mode you're playing. 

[Beyrahl]

Having more variety is a plus for longevity.