Why are my stats downscaled in a warzone? Is it possible to avoid this?

[Beyrahl]

I have all datacrons and pretty much everything to test min-max. From gold/purple and 332 standpoints, they're working fine.  However, I didn't bother to fully use a complete set of purple but it should still work fine on per piece basis. 
I would be curious as to what specific pieces you actually have, like the names of the piece, blue purple green, etc. Should report those items. 
Along with that, it sounds like you're trying to gear with PvP? I would advise against that miserable experience, I only play this game for PvP and it's quite inefficient for gearing.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, Beyrahl said:

I have all datacrons and pretty much everything to test min-max. From gold/purple and 332 standpoints, they're working fine.  However, I didn't bother to fully use a complete set of purple but it should still work fine on per piece basis. 
I would be curious as to what specific pieces you actually have, like the names of the piece, blue purple green, etc. Should report those items. 
Along with that, it sounds like you're trying to gear with PvP? I would advise against that miserable experience, I only play this game for PvP and it's quite inefficient for gearing.

Slightly off topic, but did you mostly gear up through FP’s? Is RR spam still the fastest?

[Skolops]

3 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

I have all datacrons and pretty much everything to test min-max. From gold/purple and 332 standpoints, they're working fine.  However, I didn't bother to fully use a complete set of purple but it should still work fine on per piece basis. 
I would be curious as to what specific pieces you actually have, like the names of the piece, blue purple green, etc. Should report those items. 
Along with that, it sounds like you're trying to gear with PvP? I would advise against that miserable experience, I only play this game for PvP and it's quite inefficient for gearing.

I have geared through Hyde and Zeek using flashpoints and a lucky drop of a PvP item to get the purple 332s from Hyde and Zeek. I have gotten my relics and earpiece from PvP. 

I've made a video to showcase my gear and the things I have been describing. Please note that I make at least two mistakes here: misusing the term bolster at one point, and more importantly at one point I say that the DPS estimate the game gives is lower than it really is. I also stumble around for a minute or so in the middle when trying to demonstrate what unaugmented gear is doing because I forgot that I was on the fleet and I needed to go back to Rishi to show the phenomenon. Otherwise this should illustrate what's going on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJi3NllZO4

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Skolops

[Beyrahl]

10 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Slightly off topic, but did you mostly gear up through FP’s? Is RR spam still the fastest?

GSF mostly throughout all my many alts and conquest. I would throw in some FP specifically for the blue quest nowadays. 

 

 

8 hours ago, Skolops said:

I've made a video to showcase my gear and the things I have been describing. Please note that I make at least two mistakes here: misusing the term bolster at one point, and more importantly at one point I say that the DPS estimate the game gives is lower than it really is. I also stumble around for a minute or so in the middle when trying to demonstrate what unaugmented gear is doing because I forgot that I was on the fleet and I needed to go back to Rishi to show the phenomenon. Otherwise this should illustrate what's going on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJi3NllZO4

I left a comment on the video, but basically, when you remove pieces the remnants of the old bolster system start to kick in when it honestly should probably just get removed completely for max-level PvP. There were many ways to game the bolster mechanic and sort of always has, which is why we see it in such an abysmal state. The same thing happened with level-sync, which I am not innocent of this either, so I can briefly cover that. The way it used to work is that it'd go off of your pieces in your shell and base it on your overall gear score for said item. For example, squeezing better mods and enhancements while sacrificing armoring or lowering relics (as relics didn't scale up yet) or other methods of squeezing even more. 
So I imagine when you get 332 implants your stats will return to relatively normal, though the video is still handy for people curious about this topic. 
I want to express this here. Whenever you see something like this and for anyone else who comes to read these topics, please do /bug report it in-game they are trying to fix it and have fixed the majority of the issues regarding it, even if it doesn't seem like a very important thing. 

[Skolops]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:23 AM, Beyrahl said:

GSF mostly throughout all my many alts and conquest. I would throw in some FP specifically for the blue quest nowadays. 

 

 

I left a comment on the video, but basically, when you remove pieces the remnants of the old bolster system start to kick in when it honestly should probably just get removed completely for max-level PvP. There were many ways to game the bolster mechanic and sort of always has, which is why we see it in such an abysmal state. The same thing happened with level-sync, which I am not innocent of this either, so I can briefly cover that. The way it used to work is that it'd go off of your pieces in your shell and base it on your overall gear score for said item. For example, squeezing better mods and enhancements while sacrificing armoring or lowering relics (as relics didn't scale up yet) or other methods of squeezing even more. 
So I imagine when you get 332 implants your stats will return to relatively normal, though the video is still handy for people curious about this topic. 
I want to express this here. Whenever you see something like this and for anyone else who comes to read these topics, please do /bug report it in-game they are trying to fix it and have fixed the majority of the issues regarding it, even if it doesn't seem like a very important thing. 

I was going to test this tonight as I had 11,000 tech fragments to upgrade both implants to 332. I already have it unlocked that they should cost 2500, and the cost SAYS 2500 on the vendor, but somehow I upgraded the first one twice (from 328 to 332) and I realized after that it took the full 6500 from me the first time. 

[Syrlex]

I do not understand why the OP is using 336 blue armour/mods and 332 purple enhancements. Why not just blue 332 everything? Or for that matter, 336 bue armour/mods and 336 purple enhancements?

Is the mix of 336 and 332 making the mess for you, OP? Just asking.

[Skolops]

2 minutes ago, Syrlex said:

I do not understand why the OP is using 336 blue armour/mods and 332 purple enhancements. Why not just blue 332 everything? Or for that matter, 336 bue armour/mods and 336 purple enhancements?

Is the mix of 336 and 332 making the mess for you, OP? Just asking.

I have, as I've explained above and in the video, tested every configuration possible to me, including going all 332s, to see what is happening and if the problem is alleviated or caused by any particular configuration. From what I can tell, having tested every combination either on my own character or inspecting other people's characters (to check things like gold augments which I do not have) the downscaling happens no matter what tier of gear you have on as long as you are not wearing gold augments. It happens with no augments equipped, and with blues, and with purples. You lose more with blues than with purples, but you lose it nonetheless.

The reason I have 336 armorings/mods and 332 enhancements is because of the gear I have available to me that gives the best in warzone stats. Although 332 is supposed to be the best in a warzone, the system is clearly not working because as many players have tested, higher tier PvE gear is still providing a small state boost over 332s. For example, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue3KPctBHa4

I'd put in purple 336 enhancements if I had them, but I don't. I have blue 336s from Hyde and Zeek and farming flashpoints, as well as purple 332s from using a PvP piece for Hyde and Zeek. For whatever reason, the configuration I am using is leaving me with better in warzone stats than if I swap in the blue 336 enhancements. I don't know exactly why this is. It may just be the better stat distribution on artifact vs. prototype gear. Maybe the system IS downscaling based on rating, just not correctly, and it just works out that the tradeoff between the downscale and the stat values is in a sweet spot for B336/B336/P332 vs. B336/B336/B336 or B332/B332/P332. I've also noticed that what is happening with the weird scaling is mainly affecting primary and secondary stats, while tertiary stats are behaving more correctly, so perhaps using the best possible 332 pieces on the tertiary stats pieces - the enhancements - is giving the best results.

Either way, short of a lot more PvE farming to get purple 336s my best option right now is what I'm doing. 

[Skolops]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:23 AM, Beyrahl said:

GSF mostly throughout all my many alts and conquest. I would throw in some FP specifically for the blue quest nowadays. 

 

 

I left a comment on the video, but basically, when you remove pieces the remnants of the old bolster system start to kick in when it honestly should probably just get removed completely for max-level PvP. There were many ways to game the bolster mechanic and sort of always has, which is why we see it in such an abysmal state. The same thing happened with level-sync, which I am not innocent of this either, so I can briefly cover that. The way it used to work is that it'd go off of your pieces in your shell and base it on your overall gear score for said item. For example, squeezing better mods and enhancements while sacrificing armoring or lowering relics (as relics didn't scale up yet) or other methods of squeezing even more. 
So I imagine when you get 332 implants your stats will return to relatively normal, though the video is still handy for people curious about this topic. 
I want to express this here. Whenever you see something like this and for anyone else who comes to read these topics, please do /bug report it in-game they are trying to fix it and have fixed the majority of the issues regarding it, even if it doesn't seem like a very important thing. 

I was able to get the 332 implants now and no change. 

[Beyrahl]

15 hours ago, Skolops said:

I was able to get the 332 implants now and no change. 

Hopefully, I am not reading this wrong, you're saying your stats haven't changed or that there is no change in its functioning? 
Anyway, I went through the trouble to showcase this.
332 + Purple augments, 334 implants on fleet.

The difference between 332 and 334 implants are a total of.

• 48 Mastery - Affected by a 5% buff making it 50 total.
• 58 Endurance - Affected by a 5% buff making it 60 total.
• 36 Power
• 22 Secondary - Depends on what implants you use, secondary as in crit, alacrity, defense rating, and so on. 

The same gear with 334 implants in bolstered area.

For reference, I run mastery stim no matter what because it's easier than constant stim changes depending on gear swaps. 2x 100ks vs a few mills a stim, oof. 
As you can see everything adds up perfectly. You lose no stats and generally the math for what you'd get from a purple set with all datacrons is this.
(Assuming no mastery augments, since scaling does get affected by a 5% buff per augment btw.)

• 15,920 Mastery - Mastery stim no mastery augments.
• 20,674 Endurance - Assuming not assassin as they have extra endurance passive increase.
• 12,259 Power - Again this is with mastery stim.
• 7,172 Secondary - This is without accuracy stim of course, with accuracy stim these numbers change. This is all secondary added up.

It is to be noted tank does get 2 more power than everyone else in this same gear for some reason. Also, I will showcase the same stats with an accuracy stim just to have everything in one spot. Again this is purple augments 332, with all datacrons.

• 15,643 Mastery - Accuracy stim, no mastery augments.
• 20,674 Endurance - Assuming not assassin as they have extra endurance passive increase.
• 12,150 Power - Accuracy stim.
• 7,545 Secondary - Accuracy stim nets accuracy and critical therefore you get more secondary versus mastery.

If you're using all 332 (not blue enhancements) and purple augments these are the stats you should be seeing in PvP and should be relatively easy for you to check for yourself to conclude if there's a piece not working, please do /bug report it in the game with all the specifics you can.

Blue augments are still bugged and are worth it over nothing, but you are losing some stats when you should not.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I will cover 332 + Gold augments since having this all in one post is pretty helpful for future posts and or helpful for those curious about the differences.
Starting with accuracy stim since I still have it active. (Just wanted some separation from the above for clarity's sake.)

• 15,643 Mastery - Accuracy Stim, no mastery augments. 
• 21,071 Endurance - Assuming not assassin as they have extra endurance passive increase.
• 12,528 Power - Accuracy stim.
• 7,853 Secondary - Accuracy stim nets accuracy and critical therefore you get more secondary versus mastery.

The difference between purple augments and gold augments with accuracy stim end up being.

• 397 Endurance - Not assassin.
• 378 Power - This is the same regardless unless you compare mastery to accuracy stim.
• 308 Secondary - Usually the main reason you will want gold augments, though the overall raw increase is nice too.

 

332 + Gold augments on mastery stim, this is what I often run and what I have listed elsewhere quite a few times.

• 15,920 Mastery - Mastery stim, no mastery augments.
• 21,071 Endurance - Assuming not assassin as they have extra endurance passive increase.
• 12,637 Power - Mastery stim.
• 7,480 Secondary - Mastery stim.

Differences from 332 + purple augments to gold with mastery stim.

• 397 Endurance - Not assassin.
• 378 Power - This is the same regardless unless you compare mastery to accuracy stim.
• 308 Secondary - Also the same still, unless you compare mastery to accuracy. 

The reason why I bring up not assassin for the endurance category is that they have another passive further increasing their endurance by 3% called assassin's training. 
For all 5% buffs, it's not difficult to math this out but to give an example datacron mastery does not scale with this buff. Only items and stims do.

For those pieces that are in question of scaling correctly - which there are a lot of. Are prototype (blue grade) and I think some cases premium (green grade) if you have some of those they might be the culprit of inconsistent stats. All of this is done with the max level, as bolster and level sync work differently and actually do funky things in lower brackets. 
Hopefully this helps and lays it out easily to compare stats and isolate the issue to report it. 

[Skolops]

4 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Hopefully, I am not reading this wrong, you're saying your stats haven't changed or that there is no change in its functioning? 
Anyway, I went through the trouble to showcase this.
332 + Purple augments, 334 implants on fleet.

The difference between 332 and 334 implants are a total of.

• 48 Mastery - Affected by a 5% buff making it 50 total.
• 58 Endurance - Affected by a 5% buff making it 60 total.
• 36 Power
• 22 Secondary - Depends on what implants you use, secondary as in crit, alacrity, defense rating, and so on. 

The same gear with 334 implants in bolstered area.

For reference, I run mastery stim no matter what because it's easier than constant stim changes depending on gear swaps. 2x 100ks vs a few mills a stim, oof. 
As you can see everything adds up perfectly. You lose no stats and generally the math for what you'd get from a purple set with all datacrons is this.
(Assuming no mastery augments, since scaling does get affected by a 5% buff per augment btw.)

• 15,920 Mastery - Mastery stim no mastery augments.
• 20,674 Endurance - Assuming not assassin as they have extra endurance passive increase.
• 12,259 Power - Again this is with mastery stim.
• 7,172 Secondary - This is without accuracy stim of course, with accuracy stim these numbers change. This is all secondary added up.

It is to be noted tank does get 2 more power than everyone else in this same gear for some reason. Also, I will showcase the same stats with an accuracy stim just to have everything in one spot. Again this is purple augments 332, with all datacrons.

• 15,643 Mastery - Accuracy stim, no mastery augments.
• 20,674 Endurance - Assuming not assassin as they have extra endurance passive increase.
• 12,150 Power - Accuracy stim.
• 7,545 Secondary - Accuracy stim nets accuracy and critical therefore you get more secondary versus mastery.

If you're using all 332 (not blue enhancements) and purple augments these are the stats you should be seeing in PvP and should be relatively easy for you to check for yourself to conclude if there's a piece not working, please do /bug report it in the game with all the specifics you can.

Blue augments are still bugged and are worth it over nothing, but you are losing some stats when you should not.

I appreciate the effort. 

Here are my all 332 numbers on fleet vs. Rishi 

As you can see, Mastery and Endurance match, but power is off by around 80. I think something similar happened with your stuff. 

Here are the differences if I put the 336 armoring and mods in.

The difference between the full set of 336 and 332 mods/armorings is 432 Mastery/454 w/ buff, 360 Endurance/378 w/ buff, 171 Power.

In 336 mods/armoring in the synced area, my Mastery is off by the correct amount to downlevel the 336s, but the mastery loses 480, not 378, and the power loses 376 power, not 171.

I come away happier with the way it's working then I was before, as it is very close, though the power is about 80 points lower, which is not insignificant. At the same time, there are two other problems that seem to be present:

1) it seems the 336s are downscaled more than they should be

2) It seems that the system doesn't work right if you don't have a full set of 332 gear with the purple mods. While you are "in the middle" of gearing it is taking too many of your stats. 
 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Skolops

[Beyrahl]

Crystals don't work and account for 82 stat points. So if you're forgetting that, that can explain it.

[Skolops]

14 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Crystals don't work and account for 82 stat points. So if you're forgetting that, that can explain it.

You're right; I'd forgotten about that when I did this round of tests. I think the power lines up correctly then when you have full 100% 332 - but not when you have any pieces greater or less or, as you've noted a few times, with the 276 implants. 

[TrixxieTriss]

15 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Crystals don't work and account for 82 stat points. So if you're forgetting that, that can explain it.

Has BioWare acknowledged that crystals not working is a bug or have they done it on purpose? 

[Beyrahl]

11 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Has BioWare acknowledged that crystals not working is a bug or have they done it on purpose? 

When bolster somewhat worked, though not completely, crystals and augments had some issues in general. I don't know what they did to bolster but basically, you could hit a million health and thousands of stats due to a bug. They disabled crystals and augments as a fix, but bolster's never been the same.  Even if this hadn't happened bolster already had a lot of issues. I do hope it gets fixed soon but I think a whole new system would be better or just making it easier to get max stats in PvP. Multiple billions right now for augments is just so disappointing. I do hope the next tier of augments is easy to get. 

[Syrlex]

People use only Master crystals, right (for DPS and healers)?

[Sappharan]

On 4/11/2023 at 9:43 AM, Beyrahl said:

Multiple billions right now for augments is just so disappointing. I do hope the next tier of augments is easy to get. 

Yeah, I have old purples from my old 6.0 gear.  I will be ****** if I am paying billions or hundreds of millions to optimize.  Good enough for government work.  It's like with my bike...I was never going to ride at a professional level, so I did not worry about after market stuff save for flush-mount signals which, obviously, have nothing to do with performance.  I just ride to have fun.  Same with the gear.  I slapped the old augments in and play.

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, Syrlex said:

People use only Master crystals, right (for DPS and healers)?

Crystals don't add any stats in pvp right now they are broken.