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Why are my stats downscaled in a warzone? Is it possible to avoid this?


Skolops

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Whenever I check my stats in a warzone or arena, they are lower than if I check them in a regular level 80 area. For example, on one character I have 11,447 power and 16,643 mastery on the fleet, but in a warzone it drops to around 11,100 power and something under 16,315 mastery. I should have 8,530 Force Power between main and offhand. In a warzone, I only have 8,396.

From what I had read I thought that this was something that would happen - or at least was supposed to - if you entered a warzone with gear level about the 332 max rating. I was running a character in mostly 336 gear and saw the downscaling but this made sense to me. I wanted to try 332 gear to see what would happen, and somewhat to my surprise it downscaled that, too, The examples I gave above are based on all gear being 332 or below. 

So what exactly is going on? If there some "trick" to getting the system to give you the stats you're supposed to have? 

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8 minutes ago, Skolops said:

Whenever I check my stats in a warzone or arena, they are lower than if I check them in a regular level 80 area. For example, on one character I have 11,447 power and 16,643 mastery on the fleet, but in a warzone it drops to around 11,100 power and something under 16,315 mastery. I should have 8,530 Force Power between main and offhand. In a warzone, I only have 8,396.

From what I had read I thought that this was something that would happen - or at least was supposed to - if you entered a warzone with gear level about the 332 max rating. I was running a character in mostly 336 gear and saw the downscaling but this made sense to me. I wanted to try 332 gear to see what would happen, and somewhat to my surprise it downscaled that, too, The examples I gave above are based on all gear being 332 or below. 

So what exactly is going on? If there some "trick" to getting the system to give you the stats you're supposed to have? 

It might help to know what ALL your stats are. Please share what the stats are before you enter PvP & what they are after.

**You can use a PvP bolster terminal to check the PvP stats without actually entering PvP. These can be found on one of the ships attached to fleet & also in Rishi Strong Hold**

Also please include wether you are fully augmented. 

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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1 minute ago, TrixxieTriss said:

It might help to know what exact stats you are talking about. Please share what the stats are before you enter PvP & what they are after.

**You can use a PvP bolster terminal to check the PvP stats without actually entering PvP. These can be found on one of the ships attached to fleet & also in Rishi Strong Hold**

Also please include wether you are fully augmented. 

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking as I provided three very specific examples of stats in question in my post. On the character where these stats came from I have 11 augments. 

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1 minute ago, Skolops said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking as I provided three very specific examples of stats in question in my post. On the character where these stats came from I have 11 augments. 

What about alacrity, Accuracy & Crit. Have you checked those?

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10 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

What about alacrity, Accuracy & Crit. Have you checked those?

For what it's worth, the fleet terminal doesn't exist anymore. 

My stats are as follows:

Outside of a warzone - > Inside 

Mastery: 16,643 -> 16,315

Endurance: 19,790 -> 19,389

Power: 11:447 -> 11,073

Critical: 3,317 ->  3,270

Alacrity: 2,230 -> 2,195

Accuracy 0 in both cases

Melee Damage Primary: 8,173-9,130 drops to 7,984-8,926

Melee Bonus Damage 6,259 -> 6,100

Health:         385,983 -> 380,309

Armor Rating:           5,896 -> 5,859

Force Bonus Damage:   8,319 -> 8,128 

 

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Further research has found that, at least on the people I was able to inspect, it seems like blue augments are losing a lot of stats in the bolster, whereas purple ones are losing less and golds are actually gaining stats beyond what they should add up to. 

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6 minutes ago, Skolops said:

Further research has found that, at least on the people I was able to inspect, it seems like blue augments are losing a lot of stats in the bolster, whereas purple ones are losing less and golds are actually gaining stats beyond what they should add up to. 

If that’s the case. It sounds like there might be a bug in the coding somewhere. 

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1 hour ago, Skolops said:

For what it's worth, the fleet terminal doesn't exist anymore. 

My stats are as follows:

Outside of a warzone - > Inside 

Mastery: 16,643 -> 16,315

Endurance: 19,790 -> 19,389

Power: 11:447 -> 11,073

Critical: 3,317 ->  3,270

Alacrity: 2,230 -> 2,195

Accuracy 0 in both cases

Melee Damage Primary: 8,173-9,130 drops to 7,984-8,926

Melee Bonus Damage 6,259 -> 6,100

Health:         385,983 -> 380,309

Armor Rating:           5,896 -> 5,859

Force Bonus Damage:   8,319 -> 8,128 

 

Quick question, I’m assuming you’re using mods & not static shelled armour. So is it at all possible that you might have a 336+ mod mixed in with the 332 gear? 

If not, then it might be the Augment situation you reported in the previous post causing the issue. I’m assuming you’re not using gold augments, but blue or purple ones? 

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Don't want to derail, but bolster isn't what's going on here.
Item level sync works mostly pretty well, anything above 332 will be brought down. 
Along with that crystals aren't giving stats still in PvP.

Anyway, this quote is something I have brought up a few times so far but is important for all 332 testing to hopefully make it easier for everyone who wants to compare stats and report /bug in the game if something is not working right.
 

Quote

Also for checking yourself, min-maxed stats available to PvP (outside of stimulated/entertainer's package in effect)
15,643 mastery without mastery stim nor mastery augments, this includes all BiS gear and all datacrons.
21,071 endurance assuming no endurance buff like an assassin. Of course not include endurance stim but includes augments.
The secondary stat pool will add up to 7,853 with an accuracy stim. 7,480 without accuracy stim.
Since we're capped at 332, this is pretty easy to test and see for yourself, for reference crystals do not work and rishi stronghold is a 1:1 place to pvp bolster. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Beyrahl said:

Don't want to derail, but bolster isn't what's going on here.
Item level sync works mostly pretty well, anything above 332 will be brought down. 
Along with that crystals aren't giving stats still in PvP.

Anyway, this quote is something I have brought up a few times so far but is important for all 332 testing to hopefully make it easier for everyone who wants to compare stats and report /bug in the game if something is not working right.
 

 

I appreciate the effort to reply, but in truth this is a very frustrating reply. You say that bolster is not what is going on here, so then if that is the case what is it?

Why am I losing hundreds of points in PvP bolstered areas like Warzones and Rishi?  You say that things above 332 are being brought down, but I am a lot more concerned about why I am being brought down AT 332, and when my iRating is in fact 330. 

To put it simply: I have 11,716 power on my gear right now. If I ignore the crystals, I have 11,634 - but in a PvP bolster area, I only have 11,304.  Why? All gear is 332 or lower.

I am going against people who have nearly 13,000 power when all of the power on their gear doesn't add up to that amount, and meanwhile I am at only around 11,000 in spite of having hundreds more than that on my gear - all of which is, to reiterate, at or below 332. 

I don't understand the section you quoted. I think it is missing context to make sense of it. Are you claiming that in a PvP area all of my stats should add up to those fixed values? If so this does not seem at all correct, because I have screenshots/videos of people's gear in warzones and their stats do not add up in these ways. If that isn't what is meant, then I'm not sure what is meant. 

Again, I do appreciate the contribution but I am frustrated because you're saying that bolster is not the problem here but not suggesting a reason that my stats are doing what they are doing.  (And not only mine - I have as noted taken careful looks at others in warzones and their stats are also not adding up right, even at 332).

Edited by Skolops
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53 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Quick question, I’m assuming you’re using mods & not static shelled armour. So is it at all possible that you might have a 336+ mod mixed in with the 332 gear? 

If not, then it might be the Augment situation you reported in the previous post causing the issue. I’m assuming you’re not using gold augments, but blue or purple ones? 

Every mod is 332. All augments are 276. Accessories are all less than 332.

Also, it occurred to me that stats which I d not have on any augments are decreasing as well, so it seems that augments don't necessarily explain the entire thing. 

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8 hours ago, Skolops said:

Every mod is 332. All augments are 276. Accessories are all less than 332.

Also, it occurred to me that stats which I d not have on any augments are decreasing as well, so it seems that augments don't necessarily explain the entire thing. 

No, it’s not the stats themselves, it’s probably the code that deals with the “grade” of augments that’s bugged. That’s why it’s affecting blue augments & not the gold augments. The gold augments seem to be working as they should & increasing the stats when applied. 
I wonder if you would still lose stats if you had all gear with no augments or augment slots equipped. I’m guessing you’d see no change in stats when you go into PvP. 

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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After a quick test myself I can confirm blue augments are not syncing correctly.
You're not losing that many stats but they aren't giving you full stats as they should. Purple augments don't have this issue nor do gold. 

 

3 hours ago, Skolops said:

but in truth this is a very frustrating reply. You say that bolster is not what is going on here, so then if that is the case what is it?

It's item-level sync. Bolster stops being useful way before hitting 300 item level, a few items had temporarily bypassed this and some still do. But in the majority of cases, it's not doing much of anything. Frustrating as it may be, I have tried my best to report most if not all gear issues, and the current state of what we have now is better than before as there were many different ways to squeeze min-max. I am just one player though.
 

3 hours ago, Skolops said:

brought down AT 332, and when my iRating is in fact 330. 

Item-level sync works per mod piece, not just the whole item unless it is an unmodded piece. So if anything is above 332 individually it'll be brought down. For example, trying to game the system by rocking 336 mods with 328 armoring. Any piece will bring it down if it's over 332. Though if there are some specific pieces not functioning right please do /bug report it in-game. The last thing we need is previous tiers of augments not functioning as gold augments are absurdly priced. 
 

3 hours ago, Skolops said:

To put it simply: I have 11,716 power on my gear right now. If I ignore the crystals, I have 11,634 - but in a PvP bolster area, I only have 11,304.  Why? All gear is 332 or lower.

I just can't tell through text, something, which you can find out yourself by testing isn't working right. Though around 12,637 with power stim is where you will see most at if min-maxed and not doing something weird. 
 

3 hours ago, Skolops said:

I don't understand the section you quoted. I think it is missing context to make sense of it. Are you claiming that in a PvP area all of my stats should add up to those fixed values? If so this does not seem at all correct, because I have screenshots/videos of people's gear in warzones and their stats do not add up in these ways. If that isn't what is meant, then I'm not sure what is meant. 

These topics come up quite a lot and it's something from those that I posted myself. I have posted on nearly every single one too. You can search the forums about the issue and find some useful info there too. There are a lot of factors that change stats but general stats there is what one would achieve. Examples of making it look different without looking into as to why are running mastery augments, running stimulated, buffed stats from entertainer's package (sometimes it persists out of combat until next combat), and of course buffs, etc.
 

3 hours ago, Skolops said:

If so this does not seem at all correct, because I have screenshots/videos of people's gear in warzones and their stats do not add up in these ways. If that isn't what is meant, then I'm not sure what is meant. 

Most if not all can either be explained or were fixed if old. Or simply miscalculated. With the new patch, I wouldn't be surprised if something new has come up so it's important people know what is/isn't possible so they can report it themselves. I say /bug in-game because it brings up a special report specifically for bugs like this. 
 

3 hours ago, Skolops said:

Again, I do appreciate the contribution but I am frustrated because you're saying that bolster is not the problem here but not suggesting a reason that my stats are doing what they are doing.  (And not only mine - I have as noted taken careful looks at others in warzones and their stats are also not adding up right, even at 332).

I did mention it, Item-Level Sync was designed to stop PvE players from having the best gear in PvP, though it's been struggling since its implementation. Bolster is not to blame because it's currently made so incredibly useless since 7.0. The only times bolster functions in any sort of useful way is in lowbies and mids. 
What's functionally bringing your stats down is item-level sync because that's what it is designed to do. It, however, seems to be not functioning right if everything on your end is right. 


If you want to provide info to allow others to help, or give more awareness to something that may not be working right taking screenshot comparisons of stats on the fleet without crystals then on rishi is a good start. Seeing your gear with detailed item tooltips turned on is also useful, but that's quite a lot of work. Also, whether you have all datacrons and companion buffs and what tier of stim you're using is also sort of important outside of just every single piece & item level.
Other than that I am certain you'll be able to isolate what part is not correctly functioning. 
 

Edited by Beyrahl
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4 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

After a quick test myself I can confirm blue augments are not syncing correctly.
You're not losing that many stats but they aren't giving you full stats as they should. Purple augments don't have this issue nor do gold. 

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I wouldn't say you're not losing many stats. 300 or 400 power is a lot, and 300 - 400 power plus 300-400 mastery is suddenly an enormous difference. 

Also, I don't think purples are working right, or gold. While I don't have these augments, I have carefully looked at and added up the numbers for people with purples and gold augments. The people with purple augments I looked at also lost stats, just to a lesser degree. For example, one person with purple augments I took photos of should have 12,448 power if you add up all his gear - but he had 12,188 in the warzone. 

Quote

Item-level sync works per mod piece, not just the whole item unless it is an unmodded piece. So if anything is above 332 individually it'll be brought down. For example, trying to game the system by rocking 336 mods with 328 armoring. Any piece will bring it down if it's over 332. Though if there are some specific pieces not functioning right please do /bug report it in-game. The last thing we need is previous tiers of augments not functioning as gold augments are absurdly priced. 

All of my individual mods are 332 blue armoring/mods or 332 purple enhancements. My implants are both 330 golds. My Earpiece is 324 blue. My Relics are a 328 purple and a 330 purple. All augments are, as noted, 276. Nothing is higher than 332, so level sync.

Also, to be extra clear and reiterate, I'm losing all stats, including those which are not on my augments. Right now, this character has all versatile augments. I have also tried it with critical augments and the same thing happens. However, I am losing alacrity in a warzone. I previously noticed this because at an earlier point in my gearing I had closer to the threshold, though still over - BUT in the warzone I still had a 1.5 s cooldown because it took away a few points and brought me lower. I also lose critical even when not wearing any augments with critical on them. 

In other words, if the level sync is messing up with the augments, it's doing something weird and taking away other stats, too. 
 

I've also experimented by going to Rishi and taking off all my gear and trying it one piece at a time and have found that I am losing stat points per individual gear piece. Even wearing only one item you have less stats then you're supposed to. 

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The person in purple augments was in 336 gear, so it may have been syncing that down correctly. I was in the process of crafting a set of purples. I'll try to finish that today and test them to see if it's working right. 

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I've tested the purple 74 augments and am still losing a lot of stats. 
 

Remember: every armor/mod is a blue 332 from Hyde and Zeek or a purple 332 enhancement from them. Implants are legendary 326s, blue 324 implant, and a 328 and 330 Thyrsian relic.  

On Rishi -> On Fleet

Mastery 16,802 -> 17,019
Endurance 20,045 -> 20,301
Power 11,697 -> 11,933
Critical 3,270 -> 3,317
Alacrity 2,195 -> 2,230

In doing this experiment, I noticed something else going on, too. Because I only have 13 purple augments right now I had taken an augment out of my earpiece altogether to avoid a blue 276 in there throwing things off. After seeing that the stats were still going down in the PvP area I decided to try taking it off and leaving that slot empty. This should have cost me 980 mastery, 1338 endurance, 729 power, and 521 critical. However it actually reduced stats by 1,828 mastery, 2,394 endurance, 1,252 power, 716 critical, AND 152 Alacrity, even though I have no alacrity on that piece. 

I also have a purple 326 PvP accuracy earpiece. Adding that SHOULD increase stats by 1,059 mastery, 1,250 endurance, 532 accuracy, and 810 power, but equipping it actually provides 1,911 mastery, 2,302 endurance, 1,333 power, and 521 critical, as well as the correct 532 accuracy. 

Doing some quick math, this seems to suggest that just for equipping that slot I am getting 523 power in both cases (the blue and the purple) in addition to the stats that are supposed to be on the piece. The other stats don't match up perfectly, but they're very close. The mastery is increasing by the listed value on the piece PLUS 848 for blue or 852 for purple. The endurance grows by an additional 1,056 for blue or 1,052 for purple. Crit increases by an extra 195 (blue) or 521 (purple), which is pretty different until you realize that the purple augment does not have crit on it at all and that 521 it gains is exactly the same as the 521 that is on the blue tier of the crit version of the earpiece. Alacrity increases by the same excess of 152 in both cases. 

So something is going on with the level syncing not only for augments, but for everything. The purple augments are not preventing me from losing stats in the warzone, though I lose about a third less. Pieces with NO augments are also adding for more to my stats than they're supposed to.
 

 

Edited by Skolops
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More data:

I tried replacing my 332 mods/armorings with 336 ones to see what would happen. Everything is lower than on fleet, but otherwise it's not consistent whether this is an improvement on the 332 pieces or not. 

Mastery in WZ is now identical to what it was SUPPOSED to be with the 332 pieces - 17,019, though it's lower than what it is on fleet  (17,473) with the 336 pieces. 

Power is 11,728 - greater than with the 332 pieces, less than fleet with 336 (12,104).

Endurance is 20,081 - greater than 332, less than fleet 336 (20,679).

Critical and Alacrity are LESS than with 332, at 3,230 and 2165, respectively.

I then tried replacing my 332 purple enhancements with 336 blues. Mastery remained unchanged. Endurance increased by a lot. Power decreased by about 100 points. Critical and Alacrity increased BUT power is naturally lower and endurance naturally higher on the 336 blues than the 332 purples, so this may not be because of the sync but because of the basic stat levels on the gear. 

Something else that is weird: if I swap back and forth between a purple 332 and a blue 336 enhancement in one of my pieces, the game's "DPS estimate" is higher with the blue 336 (25,499) than with the purple 332 (24,494) BUT every stat is equal or higher with the purple in there: mastery and crit are identical, while power and alacrity are HIGHER with the purple 332 even though it's calculation says more damage with the 336.

Edited by Skolops
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13 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

 

Item-level sync works per mod piece, not just the whole item unless it is an unmodded piece. So if anything is above 332 individually it'll be brought down. For example, trying to game the system by rocking 336 mods with 328 armoring. Any piece will bring it down if it's over 332. Though if there are some specific pieces not functioning right please do /bug report it in-game. The last thing we need is previous tiers of augments not functioning as gold augments are absurdly priced. 
 

 

I'm with you about the price of the gold augments. There's currently this insurmountable advantage because of this. I just played with a person who was geared in all 336 blue mods (336 purple enhancements) with gold augments. I'm in what you'd think would be considered pretty strong gear for PvP: purple augments, 336 blues 332 purple enhancements. This person was the same class, same spec, and their stats are so far and away beyond mine that it's no competition. They had 3,000 more mastery. Three thousand. They had around 800 more power. Their crit was similar. I realize there are lots of factors potentially at play including luck, but this person hit a death field for 10,000 more than my biggest hit. That's crazy. 

There's just no way to compete with that and the problem is that it's not just a more advanced stage in gear progression - it's something that's unattainable for most.  

Edited by Skolops
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7 minutes ago, Skolops said:

I'm with you about the price of the gold augments. There's currently this insurmountable advantage because of this. I just played with a person who was geared in all 336 blue mods (336 purple enhancements) with gold augments. I'm in what you'd think would be considered pretty strong gear for PvP: purple augments, 336 blues 332 purple enhancements. This person was the same class, same spec, and their stats are so far and away beyond mine that it's no competition. They had 3,000 more mastery. Three thousand. They had around 800 more power. Their crit was similar.

There's just no way to compete with that and the problem is that it's not just a more advanced stage in gear progression - it's something that's unattainable for most. 

Without testing this myself, I can only theorise on the evidence you’ve provided. It would seem from reading everything that the new gear lvl sync system & part of the old bolster may be active at the same time 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I remember BioWare did something to the old bolster to do with Augments a few years ago. It seems like that old code may not have been removed entirely or it’s been reactivated by accident in 7.2.1. 

Have you tried testing all the gear equipped with no augments in it at all? I know the old bolster system use to bolster to blue augment lvl if you had no augment slots equiped. 

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3 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Without testing this myself, I can only theorise on the evidence you’ve provided. It would seem from reading everything that the new gear lvl sync system & part of the old bolster may be active at the same time 🤷🏻‍♀️.

I remember BioWare did something to the old bolster to do with Augments a few years ago. It seems like that old code may not have been removed entirely or it’s been reactivated by accident in 7.2.1. 

Have you tried testing all the gear equipped with no augments in it at all? I know the old bolster system use to bolster to blue augment lvl if you had no augment slots equiped. 

Do I need gear with not slots at all, or just slots unfilled?

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2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Try without the slots filled. I think that should be enough. 

 

With no augments in slots, I get:

9,856 power (should be 10,123),

15,545 mastery (should be 13,673)

18,125 endurance (should be 16,726)

3,230 crit (should be 3,317)

2,165 alacrity (should be 2,230)

 

The system appears to be bolstering mastery and endurance and down-syncing everything else - at least in the no-augments case. 

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2 hours ago, Skolops said:

 

With no augments in slots, I get:

9,856 power (should be 10,123),

15,545 mastery (should be 13,673)

18,125 endurance (should be 16,726)

3,230 crit (should be 3,317)

2,165 alacrity (should be 2,230)

 

The system appears to be bolstering mastery and endurance and down-syncing everything else - at least in the no-augments case. 

The old bolster did indeed boost mastery & endurance if you had no Augments equiped. So it looks like it is still active in some way, even though BioWare said bolster has been replaced with the lvl sync system. 

Edit:

I’m assuming the items you tried this on were all 332 or lower?
If those items are below 332, my understanding is you technically shouldn’t be losing any stats to lvl sync, like power, crit, alacrity, accuracy, etc, if you have no augments equiped that would take your over gear lvl 332.
I’m not sure why you would be having lvl sync applied to them 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

This definitely looks like 2 different gear bugs conflicting.
The first being the Augments & the second having lvl sync applied to gear that it shouldn’t.

Can I suggest you write this all up in the forum bug section with your methodology & numbers to support your testing. Hopefully you can get BioWare to acknowledge it & explain what’s happening & fix it.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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