1. There is nothing wrong with the economy; 2. To change it you must control the exchange rate

[StrikePrice]

1 hour ago, DWho said:

So what you are saying is that subs don't need credits (they can generate as many as they want from their free CCs as needed). Then we could lower the account cap on credits (to 5 or 10 billion) and move everything over that to an escrow account that you can draw out of by spending CCs (whatever the escrow unlock was in CCs to withdraw 10 billion which if not used up in 48 hours goes back to escrow). I like that idea, let's go with it. That will lower prices because you'll have to decide how many CCs that 50 billion credit item is worth to you.

 

I'm only being a little sarcastic. It could work to lower the number of "working" credits in the economy without taking any away from anyone. It should cut down on any single player's ability to buy out the entire stock of an item and listing it for a crazy price.

You don't need them to get anything in the game. Once you have a few hundred million, you can buy anything in the game that you want. The only thing you need more credits than that are for cosmetics and for things you don't want to bother crafting yourself.

You tell me ... what in game things are there to buy that would cost over 300,000,000 except for cosmetics?

Edited April 11, 2023 by StrikePrice

[DWho]

27 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

You don't need them to get anything in the game. Once you have a few hundred million, you can buy anything in the game that you want. The only thing you need more credits than that are for cosmetics and for things you don't want to bother crafting yourself.

You tell me ... what in game things are there to buy that would cost over 300,000,000 except for cosmetics?

I totally agree with you. No one needs more than 10 billion credits ever. So why not make it so the maximum they can have at any one time is 10 billion (or even lower) across their entire legacy (account). That makes all the high end cosmetics CC only purchases.

[xxSHOONYxx]

11 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

There is no inflation. The exchange rate of USD to CC has been constant forever. 

And that means.... what?

Because cc price has not changed there is no inflation? Well as a matter of fact CC has also devaluated, why pay 40 dollars for a hypercrate when i can even get one for 7-14 dollars? Why pay 30 dollars for a dataron when i can get one for 10 dollars? Because you see, there are so many credits that "people", if you want to call them that, just buy things from gtn and sell it for real money on some places. So everything on the CM has lost the value it has by a lot due to the excess of credits in the game

[Ozsum]

I'd want them to rip-off GW2's gem exchange so they can do a fluctuating amount of player-to-player CC to Credits exchange (they can even add a tax here so it removes some credits in the game).

[StrikePrice]

21 minutes ago, Ozsum said:

I'd want them to rip-off GW2's gem exchange so they can do a fluctuating amount of player-to-player CC to Credits exchange (they can even add a tax here so it removes some credits in the game).

This is the best solution. Don't hold your breath. 

[StrikePrice]

12 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

And that means.... what?

Because cc price has not changed there is no inflation? Well as a matter of fact CC has also devaluated, why pay 40 dollars for a hypercrate when i can even get one for 7-14 dollars? Why pay 30 dollars for a dataron when i can get one for 10 dollars? Because you see, there are so many credits that "people", if you want to call them that, just buy things from gtn and sell it for real money on some places. So everything on the CM has lost the value it has by a lot due to the excess of credits in the game

I saw a gold seller yesterday (the most common one) offering 1bn gold for $9.99. Exactly the price you can get buying things on the GTN. So, I'm not sure what you're talking about. 

[StrikePrice]

13 hours ago, DWho said:

I totally agree with you. No one needs more than 10 billion credits ever. So why not make it so the maximum they can have at any one time is 10 billion (or even lower) across their entire legacy (account). That makes all the high end cosmetics CC only purchases.

I'd rather see vanity items that cost 1, 2, 5, 10 billion. Some people love to just make money in MMOs. That's their fun. I wouldn't want to take that away from them. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

42 minutes ago, StrikePrice said:

I saw a gold seller yesterday (the most common one) offering 1bn gold for $9.99. Exactly the price you can get buying things on the GTN. So, I'm not sure what you're talking about. 

You can go to any of the websites and check for yourself then 

[StrikePrice]

3 hours ago, xxSHOONYxx said:

You can go to any of the websites and check for yourself then 

Best I could find was $7/1bn. So you don't know what you're talking about. 

[xxSHOONYxx]

1 hour ago, StrikePrice said:

Best I could find was $7/1bn. So you don't know what you're talking about. 

Lmao, sure you checked. Or else you will see those prices for hypercrates master datacros and such are the ones i said

[StrikePrice]

Just now, xxSHOONYxx said:

Lmao, sure you checked. Or else you will see those prices for hypercrates master datacros and such are the ones i said

You don't know what you're talking about. Sorry.

[xxSHOONYxx]

2 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

You don't know what you're talking about. Sorry.

You are the one that has no idea what you are talking about. Either way, good luck living in aa made up fairytale

[Asheris]

On 4/10/2023 at 5:48 PM, StrikePrice said:

Completely wrong. 

You can get everything in the game you need without spending 1 penny. You're just lazy.

 

That's billionaire talk right there. 'Everyone can have money, but they choose not to because they are lazy.' 🙄 As it happens, it's a game. You know, something you play to have fun. It's not second work, I don't have to grind 8h/day to have a chance at fun because the devs chose to ignore problems with their product we already pay for.

22 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

I'd rather see vanity items that cost 1, 2, 5, 10 billion. Some people love to just make money in MMOs. That's their fun. I wouldn't want to take that away from them. 

 

Oh, so only in-game rich people can have fun? And accidentally it comes at the cost of poorer in-game people? Funny how fiction mimics life.

[Ardrossan]

1 hour ago, Asheris said:

That's billionaire talk right there. 'Everyone can have money, but they choose not to because they are lazy.' 🙄 As it happens, it's a game. You know, something you play to have fun. It's not second work, I don't have to grind 8h/day to have a chance at fun because the devs chose to ignore problems with their product we already pay for.

Oh, so only in-game rich people can have fun? And accidentally it comes at the cost of poorer in-game people? Funny how fiction mimics life.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to call you a communist for being critical of the rich/poor divide in this game  

The forum has always been rabidly conservative, and we see this through all the familiar tropes from real life: you're entitled, you're lazy, you just want free stuff, it's not the system it's the individual, you have a bad attitude, you just wanna complain, it's the younger generation of gamers etc etc. 

I think a lot of this comes from a deep cynicism. If you assume that nothing you say matters, then the devs can do basically anything and welp that's the new normal, we can't change it. And so when other players complain, to these people it's like "you're just being negative for no reason".

But you know if hundreds of gamers suddenly stopped playing and tweeted to the official old republic platform that they were cancelling their subs until bioware fixed the economy, I bet we'd find that oh yeah the devs actually do have some better ideas than taxing quick travel . But people have been conditioned to be skeptical of collective action like this, so it's easier to just do nothing, accept the situation and whine about lazy gamers instead.

[StrikePrice]

2 hours ago, Asheris said:

That's billionaire talk right there. 'Everyone can have money, but they choose not to because they are lazy.' 🙄 As it happens, it's a game. You know, something you play to have fun. It's not second work, I don't have to grind 8h/day to have a chance at fun because the devs chose to ignore problems with their product we already pay for.

Oh, so only in-game rich people can have fun? And accidentally it comes at the cost of poorer in-game people? Funny how fiction mimics life.

I don't want to grind in an MMO. You're playing the wrong type of game. If you don't want to grind in SWTOR, don't. You don't need anything above 324 gear to engage in 99% of the game. The only thing you can't do is Vet and MM operations. So give me a break with your BS. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by StrikePrice

[StrikePrice]

12 minutes ago, Ardrossan said:

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to call you a communist for being critical of the rich/poor divide in this game  

The forum has always been rabidly conservative, and we see this through all the familiar tropes from real life: you're entitled, you're lazy, you just want free stuff, it's not the system it's the individual, you have a bad attitude, you just wanna complain, it's the younger generation of gamers etc etc. 

I think a lot of this comes from a deep cynicism. If you assume that nothing you say matters, then the devs can do basically anything and welp that's the new normal, we can't change it. And so when other players complain, to these people it's like "you're just being negative for no reason".

But you know if hundreds of gamers suddenly stopped playing and tweeted to the official old republic platform that they were cancelling their subs until bioware fixed the economy, I bet we'd find that oh yeah the devs actually do have some better ideas than taxing quick travel . But people have been conditioned to be skeptical of collective action like this, so it's easier to just do nothing, accept the situation and whine about lazy gamers instead.

No, the reason people don't do that is because there is nothing wrong with the economy. 

Laugh all you want. Your argument proves my point. Thank you.

Edited April 12, 2023 by StrikePrice

[Ardrossan]

Just now, StrikePrice said:

No, the reason people don't do that is because there is nothing wrong with the economy. 

I'm sure if you just keep repeating that same line over and over again you'll magically convince all the naysayers.

[StrikePrice]

Just now, Ardrossan said:

I'm sure if you just keep repeating that same line over and over again you'll magically convince all the naysayers.

I don't care that the naysayers think. I care that BW understands that the economy is fine.  And judging by the changes they have made, they do. 

[Ardrossan]

Just now, StrikePrice said:

I don't care that the naysayers think. I care that BW understands that the economy is fine.  And judging by the changes they have made, they do. 

Yes you don't care, that's why you started this thread and have been rabidly responding to comments. 

It's like a little game we play where whoever doesn't care the most wins. Do you also not care that bioware probably hasn't read your thread and doesn't require your simping? If you really didn't care and love the status quo so much, you would just do nothing, like everyone else who plays this game but don't bother coming to the forum to say "everything is fine!"  

[remylion]

4 hours ago, Asheris said:

That's billionaire talk right there. 'Everyone can have money, but they choose not to because they are lazy.' 🙄 As it happens, it's a game. You know, something you play to have fun. It's not second work, I don't have to grind 8h/day to have a chance at fun because the devs chose to ignore problems with their product we already pay for.

Oh, so only in-game rich people can have fun? And accidentally it comes at the cost of poorer in-game people? Funny how fiction mimics life.

I went on a raid and told everyone to kill the boss and let me have the loot while I sat at the entrance. They kicked me out!! They said I needed to "participate" in the boss kill to earn the gear! Greedy geared players have more gear than they need not wanting to share the loot!

It's not second work, I don't have to grind 8h/day to have a chance at fun because the devs chose to ignore problems with their product we already pay for.

Oh, so only in-game geared people can have fun? And accidentally it comes at the cost of lesser geared in-game people? Funny how fiction mimics life.

You have to participate in the player economy to afford anything in the player economy.

Do you gather resources and sell them to players? Do you check out the auction house and find items you can resell for more? Do you play end game and sell your RPMs and OEMs for credits? Or do you sit on fleet begging people to give you platinum sets because "it's not fair I have to grind to afford things in an MMO!"

Edited April 12, 2023 by remylion

[DWho]

8 minutes ago, remylion said:

You have to participate in the player economy to afford anything in the player economy.

The economy is broken because 5 years ago, you could afford just about anything from the CM (in credits) just by gathering credits while playing the game (no need to flip items, sell high grade mats, or anything like that just completing missions was enough). Now you are "forced" to "participate" in the credit seller economy to get even something minor. Your example of the raiders dropping you isn't even remotely the same.

How much of your 5 billion (or is that off by a factor of 10 like your "I left the starter planet with 90,000 credits post") was gained by completing missions and playing the game versus the amount gained from selling things in an out of control economy (my guess would be <5%). If the economy wasn't broken, you wouldn't have acquired anywhere near that many credits. You benefited from a broken economy and are using that to justify why its okay to have to "participate" in a broken economy in order to get something from it.

[remylion]

6 minutes ago, DWho said:

The economy is broken because 5 years ago, you could afford just about anything from the CM (in credits) just by gathering credits while playing the game (no need to flip items, sell high grade mats, or anything like that just completing missions was enough). Now you are "forced" to "participate" in the credit seller economy to get even something minor. Your example of the raiders dropping you isn't even remotely the same.

How much of your 5 billion (or is that off by a factor of 10 like your "I left the starter planet with 90,000 credits post") was gained by completing missions and playing the game versus the amount gained from selling things in an out of control economy (my guess would be <5%). If the economy wasn't broken, you wouldn't have acquired anywhere near that many credits. You benefited from a broken economy and are using that to justify why its okay to have to "participate" in a broken economy in order to get something from it.

I wish I was around 5 years ago when everyone could afford hypercrates off the auction house by completing daily Heroics and not participating in the player economy by selling gathered resources to players or selling gear they find to players.

That sounds great, play Heroics for a week, maybe two and buy a hypercrate off the GTN.

[StrikePrice]

32 minutes ago, DWho said:

The economy is broken because 5 years ago, you could afford just about anything from the CM (in credits) just by gathering credits while playing the game (no need to flip items, sell high grade mats, or anything like that just completing missions was enough). Now you are "forced" to "participate" in the credit seller economy to get even something minor. Your example of the raiders dropping you isn't even remotely the same.

How much of your 5 billion (or is that off by a factor of 10 like your "I left the starter planet with 90,000 credits post") was gained by completing missions and playing the game versus the amount gained from selling things in an out of control economy (my guess would be <5%). If the economy wasn't broken, you wouldn't have acquired anywhere near that many credits. You benefited from a broken economy and are using that to justify why its okay to have to "participate" in a broken economy in order to get something from it.

This is possibly the worst retcon I've ever read.

[DWho]

7 minutes ago, remylion said:

I wish I was around 5 years ago when everyone could afford hypercrates off the auction house by completing daily Heroics and not participating in the player economy by selling gathered resources to players or selling gear they find to players.

That sounds great, play Heroics for a week, maybe two and buy a hypercrate off the GTN.

It took a bit more than that and you know it so I'll assume that is sarcasm, the missions rewarded a lot less than they do now and there were more players in the game so the credits were spread around much more (fewer people had enough credits to buy out the entire supply of anything much less CM items). Bioware made a couple of mistakes that put the economy in the position it is in now and all the credit sinks in the world won't change that. The only really effective credit sink was the GTN tax (which at the time really did pull out almost as many credits as went into the economy). It was once off GTN trades took off that the economy went wild. Each off-GTN trade avoided the best credit removal tool in the game.

1) Too many credit rewards for Conquest Objectives. This dumped a ton of credits into the economy at a time when there was really nothing to spend it on except CM items on the GTN (which drove their prices through the roof)

2) Allowing max level players to get max level rewards regardless of the planet they were on. You got basically the same rewards for doing a mission on Coruscant as you did on Corellia if you were max level. Again pumped massive amounts of credits into the game.

3) Allowing off-GTN trades for credits. This bypassed the best credit removal tool in the game (and it still is even though it is much less effective with all the off-GTN trades going on).

4) Allowing credit sellers to operate freely for so long. Over time people leave the game and their "credits" go with them but with credit sellers, they could sell those credits and get real world money and the credits didn't leave the game (during the greatest efflux of players from the game, the economy was more or less stable even though rewards were increasing because credits were passively leaving the game). Credit sellers are becoming a new problem because some people (and guilds) have accumulated enough credits to hit the in game caps and instead of losing them, they are selling them to credit sellers that pump them back into the game further increasing the supply of credits.

People talk all the time about the credit sinks Bioware removed (like training, etc) but these were all small potatoes compared to the GTN tax. Much like the QT tax, they made no real difference in keeping the economy under control.

[DWho]

Just now, StrikePrice said:

This is possibly the worst retcon I've ever read.

Really, how so?