player owned GTN in strong holds and drops fleet gtn's ?

[darklordnigel]

Here we go all, is it time to stop fleet GTN and go to player owned GTN in strongholds to try and stop the crazy prices people spamming fleet and trade chat with, thus maybe routing out gold sellers inflating the market ?? please be nice in replies

[JediQuaker]

There is only one GTN (per server). The various GTN terminals - whether on the Fleet, a planet, or in a stronghold - access the same GTN.

[Chryptyk]

Unfortunately, a lot of off GTN trades is what is messing things up.  Until that can be stopped and people are forced to using the GTN again, inflation will just keep getting worse.

[xordevoreaux]

11 hours ago, Chryptyk said:

Unfortunately, a lot of off GTN trades is what is messing things up.  Until that can be stopped and people are forced to using the GTN again, inflation will just keep getting worse.

Doing that would require that trading between players be permanently eliminated for all circumstances, which among other things would screw up guilds who pay their members to do certain tasks, like reward them for reaching conquest. And I like helping out new players. If they're subscribed, it's nothing for me to hand them a couple mil to grease the wheels a bit.

Your suggestion is too big of a hammer for the problem.

Edited January 21, 2023 by xordevoreaux

[turbomagnus]

Perhaps instead of punishing people who do Player-to-Player trading, there's some way that using the GTN could be rewarded?

[DarthSpuds]

5 hours ago, turbomagnus said:

Perhaps instead of punishing people who do Player-to-Player trading, there's some way that using the GTN could be rewarded?

Some form of achievement perhaps?

For example, once you've done X number of GTN trades then the GTN % drops and you get more of your money?

 

Of course, the very simplest way to prevent Price Inflation is to limit the number of digits available when listing items on the GTN - if there's only 7 digits nothing can ever be more than 9,999,999 Credits.

 

All The Best

[SteveTheCynic]

1 hour ago, DarthSpuds said:

Of course, the very simplest way to prevent Price Inflation is to limit the number of digits available when listing items on the GTN - if there's only 7 digits nothing can ever be more than 9,999,999 Credits.

Taken by itself, that would just push *all* CM items and *all* top-tier augments off the GTN.  It would have to be accompanied by something that prevents trading player-to-player at that sort of level.

[DarthSpuds]

Just now, SteveTheCynic said:

Taken by itself, that would just push *all* CM items and *all* top-tier augments off the GTN.  It would have to be accompanied by something that prevents trading player-to-player at that sort of level.

Agreed.

But I see no real problem with that either. 

If Biware really wanted to protect the in-game economy to prevent new players from being totally priced out of the market for... ...well, anything really, then they would do it.

I know players who started the game, played a few hours decided to look on the GTN for crafting mats to power level some crew skills and decided that was it, the economy was so broken they not only couldn't compete in trading but could never hope to use the GTN to buy anything because literally everything was so over-priced.

 

The F2P Currency Cap also needs to go, given the in-game inflation over the years an F2P players has no hope of getting a foothold in GTN land.

If you want more players to stick around to pay for the game they need a better F2P "introductory experience" - the current one is awful.

It is almost like they are being punished for being F2P, rather than being rewarded if they become subscribers.

 

All The Best

 

 

[JediQuaker]

1 hour ago, DarthSpuds said:

I know players who started the game, played a few hours decided to look on the GTN for crafting mats to power level some crew skills and decided that was it, the economy was so broken they not only couldn't compete in trading but could never hope to use the GTN to buy anything because literally everything was so over-priced.

 

The F2P Currency Cap also needs to go, given the in-game inflation over the years an F2P players has no hope of getting a foothold in GTN land.

If you want more players to stick around to pay for the game they need a better F2P "introductory experience" - the current one is awful.

It is almost like they are being punished for being F2P, ...

I'm not surprised that some people would quit because 'mats are too expensive', but I'd suggest they weren't "real" MMO players then, anyway. After all, the 'basic' idea is for players to 'gather' materials while exploring, not to just 'buy' everything. They sound more like console gamers who just want to pwew-pwew. 🙂 Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it may not 'fit' well in an MMO. 🤔

There needs, of course, to be a balance between F2P and 'subscribe'. It's nice to have more 'players', but F2P contributes nothing to the 'cost' of providing SWTOR. At least 'preferred' players pay something.

Edited January 21, 2023 by JediQuaker

[DarthSpuds]

20 minutes ago, JediQuaker said:

I'm not surprised that some people would quit because 'mats are too expensive', but I'd suggest they weren't "real" MMO players then, anyway. After all, the 'basic' idea is for players to 'gather' materials while exploring, not to just 'buy' everything. They sound more like console gamers who just want to pwew-pwew. 🙂 Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it may not 'fit' well in an MMO. 🤔

There needs, of course, to be a balance between F2P and 'subscribe'. It's nice to have more 'players', but F2P contributes nothing to the 'cost' of providing SWTOR. At least 'preferred' players pay something.

The problem in this, and most other MMORPGs, is that if you gather your crafting mats as you go along you are never normally able to craft gear that is an improvement on the Quest Drops.

For Crafting to be useful you need to be crafting better gear than you can pick up, and that means not relying on "gathered Mats" for crafting.

Also, Crafting in SWTOR has been all but abandoned by the Devs since release - it has always felt overly complicated, lacklustre, and by-and-large (with one or to notable exceptions) next to useless.

I mean look at the new planet, been through there at least a dozen times, on 4 different toons, all with different crafting and gathering skills - is there a single Craft-Mat node anywhere on that planet?  Because if there is I haven't seen it.  They just don't care about Crafting.

Why waste effort on that when they can put Dev time and resources in the GS-x and give us more ways to repeat old content we were bored of half a decade ago.

 

All The Best

[OlBuzzard]

2 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

Taken by itself, that would just push *all* CM items and *all* top-tier augments off the GTN.  It would have to be accompanied by something that prevents trading player-to-player at that sort of level.

YUP!  Pretty much! 

And I would also add that regardless of what new cap they (the dev team) set the GTN at ... IMO player to player trading REALLY should become a taxable transaction.  AND perhaps with a 2% increase of taxation over the normal GTN rate as a deterrent of sorts to help discourage player to player transactions designed to circumvent the Trade Network.  I would suggest anything over 100K in said transactions to be eligible for this new tax.  Personal transfers (character to character) would be exempt.  

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

17 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

YUP!  Pretty much! 

And I would also add that regardless of what new cap they (the dev team) set the GTN at ... IMO player to player trading REALLY should become a taxable transaction.  AND perhaps with a 2% increase of taxation over the normal GTN rate as a deterrent of sorts to help discourage player to player transactions designed to circumvent the Trade Network.  I would suggest anything over 100K in said transactions to be eligible for this new tax.  Personal transfers (character to character) would be exempt.  

Yeah, that seems like a good idea. Maybe they could give a sliding tax. So anything below a certain amount would only get taxed (over the normal GTN rate) 2%, anything in a higher cred category 1 Bill - 2 bill i.e. would have a higher tax bracket like 3%, 2-4 bill 4%,  4-10 bill 5%, 10-20 bill 8%, 20-50 bill 10%, etc.

You could play around with the numbers some, was just as an example.

[Darcmoon]

32 minutes ago, OlBuzzard said:

YUP!  Pretty much! 

And I would also add that regardless of what new cap they (the dev team) set the GTN at ... IMO player to player trading REALLY should become a taxable transaction.  AND perhaps with a 2% increase of taxation over the normal GTN rate as a deterrent of sorts to help discourage player to player transactions designed to circumvent the Trade Network.  I would suggest anything over 100K in said transactions to be eligible for this new tax.  Personal transfers (character to character) would be exempt.  

I think that would just make the issue with people using cartel packs and/or other items as currency in place of credits worse. And making items not tradable between people is, IMO, a stupid idea.  I’ve given the rakgoul vaccine to others or had one of the common bronze mounts and given it to a newbie on one of the early planets.  

[OlBuzzard]

2 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

I think that would just make the issue with people using cartel packs and/or other items as currency in place of credits worse. And making items not tradable between people is, IMO, a stupid idea.  I’ve given the rakgoul vaccine to others or had one of the common bronze mounts and given it to a newbie on one of the early planets.  

Stupid??  Hardly!!

Not the one you want?   Probably the case.

Trading entire packs or CM items instead of credits ...  probably needs to be worked out.  But at least we have a starting point to deal with circumventing the credit sink of the GTN especially where such a large scale of credits is being passed.

Every idea has a beginning.  Most need work!  This one is no exception!!

Edited January 21, 2023 by OlBuzzard

[TrixxieTriss]

11 hours ago, OlBuzzard said:

YUP!  Pretty much! 

And I would also add that regardless of what new cap they (the dev team) set the GTN at ... IMO player to player trading REALLY should become a taxable transaction.  AND perhaps with a 2% increase of taxation over the normal GTN rate as a deterrent of sorts to help discourage player to player transactions designed to circumvent the Trade Network.  I would suggest anything over 100K in said transactions to be eligible for this new tax.  Personal transfers (character to character) would be exempt.  

This seems reasonable to me. Only I would still put a cap on how many credits at a time could be traded & limit on how many times a day. 
Sure, people would still find ways to circumvent any limits, but for the majority, they would work because it any work around would be too time consuming.

[TrixxieTriss]

11 hours ago, WayOfTheWarriorx said:

Yeah, that seems like a good idea. Maybe they could give a sliding tax. So anything below a certain amount would only get taxed (over the normal GTN rate) 2%, anything in a higher cred category 1 Bill - 2 bill i.e. would have a higher tax bracket like 3%, 2-4 bill 4%,  4-10 bill 5%, 10-20 bill 8%, 20-50 bill 10%, etc.

You could play around with the numbers some, was just as an example.

This sounds like an idea I proposed 18-24 months ago based on GTN listed prices. The more expensive something is listed, the higher the tax.

I think a sliding tax based on the type of item is also a good idea. That way crafted items or mats don’t necessarily become over taxed as well.

This allows new players a chance to sell stuff on the GTN & start to build a bank without being over taxed. 
 

 

Edited January 22, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[eabevella]

Just limit the number of items that could be Trade and either limit the credit allowed in Trade and/or give it a flat 8% tax like the GTN,

And raise the GTN cap to whatever cap BW can make (4B for now).

The point is to make selling stuffs through Trade same/inferior than the GTN that people are forced back to the GTN.

While you can still give a vaccine or stim when someone needs it, give a deco you don't want from the operation drop to someone who wants it, give credits to newbies/guildmates etc.

Creating a super complicated tax system like in real life will only create unnecessary problems BW doesn't need.

[TrixxieTriss]

48 minutes ago, eabevella said:

Just limit the number of items that could be Trade and either limit the credit allowed in Trade and/or give it a flat 8% tax like the GTN,

And raise the GTN cap to whatever cap BW can make (4B for now).

The point is to make selling stuffs through Trade same/inferior than the GTN that people are forced back to the GTN.

While you can still give a vaccine or stim when someone needs it, give a deco you don't want from the operation drop to someone who wants it, give credits to newbies/guildmates etc.

Creating a super complicated tax system like in real life will only create unnecessary problems BW doesn't need.

What ever they decide. They need to do something. This ostrich policy they have with inflation has finally caught up to them. They really can’t delay taking some sort action any longer or it will start to eat into their real money CM operations. If I had to guess, I would say it already is 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Darthmoriquendi]

15 hours ago, DarthSpuds said:

Agreed.

But I see no real problem with that either. 

If Biware really wanted to protect the in-game economy to prevent new players from being totally priced out of the market for... ...well, anything really, then they would do it.

I know players who started the game, played a few hours decided to look on the GTN for crafting mats to power level some crew skills and decided that was it, the economy was so broken they not only couldn't compete in trading but could never hope to use the GTN to buy anything because literally everything was so over-priced.

 

The F2P Currency Cap also needs to go, given the in-game inflation over the years an F2P players has no hope of getting a foothold in GTN land.

If you want more players to stick around to pay for the game they need a better F2P "introductory experience" - the current one is awful.

It is almost like they are being punished for being F2P, rather than being rewarded if they become subscribers.

 

All The Best

 

 

Agree that the economy is in a bad state, but brand new players quitting because they can't immediately power level their crafting skills? They are not supposed to be able to afford that even if the economy wasn't broken.

What is with people and the I have to have it now thing? An mmo takes time, patience and yes, work. And over time they will scquire more money. Imagine this type of player having to grind at launch and do everything for themselves. 

 

[eabevella]

4 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

What ever they decide. They need to do something. This ostrich policy they have with inflation has finally caught up to them. They really can’t delay taking some sort action any longer or it will start to eat into their real money CM operations. If I had to guess, I would say it already is 🤷🏻‍♀️

Agree.

The hypercrate actually dropped from 12B to 10B.

Used to be you can get roughly the same amount of credits from a hypercrate but now it's almost certain a net lose unless you are very lucky. So why waste credits?

People stop buying is not a good sign.

[DarthSpuds]

9 hours ago, Darthmoriquendi said:

Agree that the economy is in a bad state, but brand new players quitting because they can't immediately power level their crafting skills? They are not supposed to be able to afford that even if the economy wasn't broken.

What is with people and the I have to have it now thing? An mmo takes time, patience and yes, work. And over time they will scquire more money. Imagine this type of player having to grind at launch and do everything for themselves. 

 

 

It'll help if you read my follow-up post here as to reasons why they may want a head start on crafting: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927302-player-owned-gtn-in-strong-holds-and-drops-fleet-gtns/#comment-9739512

 

It is not about "having it all now!" - it is about "having useful crafting, rather than useless crafting" - and if you level up crafting as you go along it is ALWAYS useless because it is always lagging behind your quest drops.

 

All The Best

[Darcmoon]

3 hours ago, DarthSpuds said:

 

It'll help if you read my follow-up post here as to reasons why they may want a head start on crafting: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927302-player-owned-gtn-in-strong-holds-and-drops-fleet-gtns/#comment-9739512

 

It is not about "having it all now!" - it is about "having useful crafting, rather than useless crafting" - and if you level up crafting as you go along it is ALWAYS useless because it is always lagging behind your quest drops.

 

All The Best

That lag is due to the changes in leveling speed since the game started.   But even at the beginning the price for mats was stupid because people needed them. I remember looking a few times I was shoot a few items and thinking they weren’t with that much or I couldn’t afford them.  And I know this can’t be the only game that has been out for awhile that has the same issue. Anyone starting an established MMO should expect inflation of some kind and that ‘crafting’ mats and even armor pieces will probably be out of their price range until after they don’t need it anymore. 

[OlBuzzard]

3 hours ago, DarthSpuds said:

 

It'll help if you read my follow-up post here as to reasons why they may want a head start on crafting: https://forums.swtor.com/topic/927302-player-owned-gtn-in-strong-holds-and-drops-fleet-gtns/#comment-9739512

 

It is not about "having it all now!" - it is about "having useful crafting, rather than useless crafting" - and if you level up crafting as you go along it is ALWAYS useless because it is always lagging behind your quest drops.

 

All The Best

Crafting has needed a LOT of love for a LONG time now!  Buying selling mats is a thing on just about every MMO game out there!  Heck ... on WoW YEARS ago I figured out how to make extra GC in order to pick up those hard to get patterns for crafting.  And .. (it should be noted) that crafting in WoW hasn't been worth a whole lot for some time there either!  (Not sure why.  I just know that I quit trying to make anything there too!  WHY?  Because most of the newer patterns flatly stunk BIG TIME !!! (Why waste my time on stuff like that).   And frankly aside from dyes and a couple of augments there's not a whole lot out there for crafters to do here on SWTOR! 

Could it be that one of the problems that someone inside the team is afraid that crafting items might compete with the CM?

Out of curiosity... what are some of the best items that could be crafted???  Here's a list of items that typically MIGHT make a list (if it were not for competing with the CM.)
** Armor items:  for companions / Jedi / Sith / troopers / smugglers etc
** Specialty weapons ( all classes )
** Unique deco items themed for different planets (perhaps reflecting different stages of the game such as the Mandalorians for example).
** Mounts such as jet packs / speeder bikes / pod racers smaller hover craft

This is obviously not intended to be a comprehensive list ... merely a sample.  I still have to wonder exactly why crafting took such a hard nosedive.  It seemed to be doing so well for a while.

[DreadtechSavant]

I be the first in line to freely admit I HATE FLEET TRADING. However that is beside the point, players who trade have as much right to do so. Personally wish they would just use the trade channel but understand why they don't. Fleet trading has nothing to do with GTN on fleet or not, as clearly these players are not using the GTN, as such your request is pointless for the reason you have given OP.

Another player mention getting something for using the GTN instead of trading. Not sure how this would work and the option you gave really would not have an impact. At present time the tax on GTN sales seem far more of a punishment for using it then it is as a credit sink. Which only encourages trading.

The reasons given so far about the need for in-game trading....as much as I hate to agree, yes this is a valid reason not to get rid of it. Unless BW can come up with a very reasonable compromise, but this needs to be done by them not as a demand from us.

[TrixxieTriss]

On 1/22/2023 at 5:31 PM, Darthmoriquendi said:

Agree that the economy is in a bad state, but brand new players quitting because they can't immediately power level their crafting skills? They are not supposed to be able to afford that even if the economy wasn't broken.

What is with people and the I have to have it now thing? An mmo takes time, patience and yes, work. And over time they will scquire more money. Imagine this type of player having to grind at launch and do everything for themselves. 

 

Agreed, I’m wondering how brand new players in any game, regardless of the age of the game, expect to have enough currency to buy up crafting mats to level it up? Are they buying credits & then realising they still can’t afford the mats?