Veteran-Flashpoints "Black Talon/ Esseless"

[SteveTheCynic]

2 hours ago, DarthCasus said:

or re-enable the DvL toggle (please, give it back..) for flashpoints to auto-grant the points without initiating dialogue. 

How would that work for e.g. Black Talon or the Esseles where paths through the flashpoint change based on those decisions?  Would there be some sort of vote behind the scenes to account for me choosing light on the toggle and you choosing dark?

[DarthCasus]

5 minutes ago, SteveTheCynic said:

How would that work for e.g. Black Talon or the Esseles where paths through the flashpoint change based on those decisions?  Would there be some sort of vote behind the scenes to account for me choosing light on the toggle and you choosing dark?

A background vote based one 1 dialogue-like action doesn't sound bad at all since it could in theory be 1 prompt as opposed to a full on cutscene + dialogue read. Or why not randomize it? How many instances are there where decisions made by the players affect the flashpoint narrative/combat path anyhow? These two and Kaon are the only ones that come to mind immediately. Would be surprised to see a widespread disagreement with either option being implemented if they were.

[Sylvannai]

The following will certainly not please some (I don't either!) but so that it is understood how reluctantly Black Talon/Esseless is now run in the high-level character area and where this FP then leads in the Finder, I give it to "protocol".

Since nothing is happening in relation to "Black Talon"/Esseless, I'm not the only one who has decided that if a player is under level 23 in the found group, they don't agree to a run in the group window and prefer to wait a few minutes for players to arrive are, whose characters were played up at least a little bit about the story.

Of course, there is always a bad aftertaste. Basically, this leads to a kind of discrimination against low-level players. (all ! of my characters in the legacy have been played up by hand from level 1 to level 80 over the story, or part of it)

But since we like to run Vet-Fp so often, and Black Talon unfortunately appears again and again, this behavior has been forced on us by the game in the meantime. Unfortunately, newcomers who are not yet familiar with the game and are just happy to run with a group will be alienated. But I'm not the only one who ran out of patience to even attack this "I'm talking myself to death" (allusion to the many conversation sequences) - FP with our high-level characters.

Sometimes it happens that I still see it in time that the finder "Black Talon" has (repeatedly) knocked us out in the face and I then simply leave the actually already existing group and accept this 19 minutes and a few seconds blocking time.

Recently it happened again that we got Black Talon via the Finder with four players whose characters were level 80. We ran through the fp but then you realized, you can call it anger to have gotten this through the finder, as we then "raced" through this fp with our highly armored character. The conversation sequences alone always held us up, even if they were clicked away by everyone as quickly as possible.

There was one more incident, but it was rather amusing.

I listed myself through the finder and immediately got a group. (Fortunately, at least on the Imperial side, it is still possible to get a group quickly.
Only...it was Black Talon and there the Players were already standing at the conclusion console (Where you are asked if it goes to the fleet or to Dromund Kaas).
That was the fastest "Black Talon" run I've ever experienced ^^.
He was also counted towards the weekly mission.
In the end, it was more of an oversight on the part of the group to invite someone else, which was understandable

But what is added to Black Talon is that at the end after the final console there is always an "infinite loading bug".
Basically you're stuck in it and have to end the game on the desktop and start it again, so that you can get out of the bug. Something that has long been known about Black Talon and Esseless (Rep) but has never been fixed and probably never will be.

[khamseen_air]

I truly, with a passion, hate that they added these FPs to the GF list. Every single time they come up I want to log out and never come back. So far that seems to be the reaction I see from all other players (except new players) when this FP pops too. 

It would have been fine if they'd been in there in the past when we could unselect FPs and still make progress on the weekly but given that you're now required to have every single FP selected to get progress on the weekly it truly is a PITA. 

Either they should remove them or they should alter the weekly to either mimic earlier game versions or make it some sort of percentage needing to be selected to gain progress. 

[Caesar]

I hate Esselles with a passion. I will leave the FP every time when that pops. I will find more productive things to do while I am locked out. It can be done fast but only with a cooperative group and honestly you are not going to find much of that with PUGs. 

[fordpre]

Just remember a bit of patience with newbies goes a long way. I did black talon last night with a new guy. Two higher level players just said skip plz then rage quit when the guy didnt understand after the first couple of dialogs. A quick explanation before reinforcements arrived via requeue and all was good for the rest of the run. Its not newbies fault that they a) might way to see the content first time around(Although there is always story mode) b) might not understand the mechanics of how to skip cut scenes c) understand the etiquette for those of us that have done it hundreds or thousands of times.

[Aries_cz]

Whenever I get Esseless or BT, I simply ask "everyone okay with skipping?", most people are usually fine with it.

Simply asking instead of throwing a hissy fit or ragequitting works wonders.

 

Though I do tend to leave when I get it three times in a row, because it is simply boring to do the same thing over and over

[Nee-Elder]

13 hours ago, fordpre said:

Just remember a bit of patience with newbies goes a long way. I did black talon last night with a new guy. Two higher level players just said skip plz then rage quit when the guy didnt understand after the first couple of dialogs. A quick explanation before reinforcements arrived via requeue and all was good for the rest of the run. Its not newbies fault that they a) might way to see the content first time around(Although there is always story mode) b) might not understand the mechanics of how to skip cut scenes c) understand the etiquette for those of us that have done it hundreds or thousands of times.

QFE ^ ...

2 minutes ago, Aries_cz said:

Whenever I get Esseless or BT, I simply ask "everyone okay with skipping?", most people are usually fine with it.

Simply asking instead of throwing a hissy fit or ragequitting works wonders.

Bingo ^

It's so nice to see 2 posts by 2 positive gamers who actually seem rational, reasonable, & refreshing.

I'm going to enjoy re-reading your replies for another moment, before heading back into SWTOR and seeing Fleet genchat.

[JediQuaker]

Funny thing - if I get Esseles and people aren't skipping, I get bored and start to watch Youtube (or whatever) on my second monitor. This sometimes means that I end up being the one not paying attention and not pressing spacebar! 😅

Edited January 7, 2023 by JediQuaker

[bluehufsa]

20 hours ago, Aries_cz said:

Whenever I get Esseless or BT, I simply ask "everyone okay with skipping?", most people are usually fine with it.

Simply asking instead of throwing a hissy fit or ragequitting works wonders.

 

Though I do tend to leave when I get it three times in a row, because it is simply boring to do the same thing over and over

I tried that, but one person from group ( and from my guild) was Spanish and he didn't understood anything from the dialogue, i had to call him on Discord and explain in Spanish that Captain Orzik disobeyed a direct order from Grand Moff Kilran and we have to decide if he dies or not.

Meanwhile, the other two guys got angry and left. LOL.

[Aries_cz]

1 hour ago, bluehufsa said:

I tried that, but one person from group ( and from my guild) was Spanish and he didn't understood anything from the dialogue, i had to call him on Discord and explain in Spanish that Captain Orzik disobeyed a direct order from Grand Moff Kilran and we have to decide if he dies or not.

Meanwhile, the other two guys got angry and left. LOL.

I assume he understands "some" English/French/German (otherwise, how the heck does he play?), but got lost in the full conversation?

Because if he does not understand the dialogue at all, why would it matter to him what option to pick? Just mash random buttons or go by the LS/DS indicators

[eabevella]

Remove Black Talon/Essels from group finder and put KDY back - like how they were before!

[bluehufsa]

22 hours ago, Aries_cz said:

I assume he understands "some" English/French/German (otherwise, how the heck does he play?), but got lost in the full conversation?

Because if he does not understand the dialogue at all, why would it matter to him what option to pick? Just mash random buttons or go by the LS/DS indicators

Yes, he speaks German and Italian and understands some English, but often gets lost in full conversation. He transfered from the German server for his girlfriend and tries hard to not scr*w up, but sometimes things don't go as planned.

[SteveTheCynic]

5 hours ago, bluehufsa said:

Yes, he speaks German and Italian and understands some English, but often gets lost in full conversation. He transfered from the German server for his girlfriend and tries hard to not scr*w up, but sometimes things don't go as planned.

If he understands German well enough to follow the stories in German, he should just set the game to German.  (No, it doesn't require that the language of the game matches the language of the server.)

EDIT: I play on The Leviathan (FR server) with the game set to English.

Edited January 9, 2023 by SteveTheCynic

[Aries_cz]

Agreed with Steve, if your friend speaks German better than English, he can play the game completely in German (including voices, I do not think you can mix and match audio and text versions).

It will not limit him in any way, he can still play with all your other friends who play the game in English, on English server, etc. Just might cause some miscommunications should he refer to something using its German name (mechanic, attack, item if not shift-clicking, etc)

Edited January 9, 2023 by Aries_cz

[DawnAskham]

Oh look, another dumb change.

I was trying to figure out why a group of all higher levels got BT, and why I got BT / Esseles several times since returning.

Good to know Bioware is "on it" for regressing the game - are the weekly mission / random FP rewards even worth bothering with anymore unless one needs conquest points?

[khamseen_air]

18 hours ago, DawnAskham said:

Oh look, another dumb change.

I was trying to figure out why a group of all higher levels got BT, and why I got BT / Esseles several times since returning.

Good to know Bioware is "on it" for regressing the game - are the weekly mission / random FP rewards even worth bothering with anymore unless one needs conquest points?

Since I completed the latest season stuff I haven't bothered with doing any FPs. It's a shame because I actually enjoy doing them, but I got so fed up of getting BT or Ess that it just wasn't worth it any more. 

[StrikePrice]

On 11/28/2022 at 4:40 AM, DeannaVoyager said:

My personal solution to fix the problem: 

When you get a pop for vet fps, check the levels of the players. If there are people below lvl 50 in the suggested group, decline. Wait a moment before q'ing again. If the previous group pops again, put that lowbie on ignore until you get a new group for something else. You may still get BT or Esseles with higher level group, but the chances are lower, and higher level players usually skip the convos too. 

 

 

Yes, this is my solution too. But it's too bad because when everyone does this, you get 3 80's and a 13 in the queue. Then, nobody want's to group with the lower level toons. If they removed the risk of BT or Essles, then people would be more willing to group with lower level players. I think that would be good for the community. 

[JediQuaker]

19 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Yes, this is my solution too. But it's too bad because when everyone does this, you get 3 80's and a 13 in the queue. Then, nobody want's to group with the lower level toons. If they removed the risk of BT or Essles, then people would be more willing to group with lower level players. I think that would be good for the community. 

Often times the 'low level' character is a new alt of an experienced player and is actually better than some ill-equipped 'high-level' doing their first FP (and not using their spacebar). 

The problem with Esseles is not low-level players - it's those dam cutscenes that people don't spacebar. I think a good solution might be to enable the group leader to skip cutscenes.

Edited March 4, 2023 by JediQuaker

[JediQuaker]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:17 AM, khamseen_air said:

Since I completed the latest season stuff I haven't bothered with doing any FPs. It's a shame because I actually enjoy doing them, but I got so fed up of getting BT or Ess that it just wasn't worth it any more. 

That seems kind of silly when you can just de-select BT/Esseles from the GF list. I realize you won't get the bonus and it wouldn't count toward the weekly, but it's still better than not doing the FPs at all (if you truly do enjoy doing them).

[StrikePrice]

3 hours ago, JediQuaker said:

Often times the 'low level' character is a new alt of an experienced player and is actually better than some ill-equipped 'high-level' doing their first FP (and not using their spacebar). 

The problem with Esseles is not low-level players - it's those dam cutscenes that people don't spacebar. I think a good solution might be to enable the group leader to skip cutscenes.

Exactly my point! It's not the player, it's the FP choice. I would take it one step past group leader skip. I would make Vet & MM one-skip-all-skip. 

[SteveTheCynic]

3 hours ago, StrikePrice said:

Exactly my point! It's not the player, it's the FP choice. I would take it one step past group leader skip. I would make Vet & MM one-skip-all-skip. 

That would be a severe bummer for someone playing e.g. Hammer Station or Athiss for the first time, where there isn't a Story mode.  ("Yeah, I wanted to see the story, but someone else skipped so I couldn't see the story.  How do I get to see the story?")

[JediQuaker]

14 hours ago, SteveTheCynic said:

That would be a severe bummer for someone playing e.g. Hammer Station or Athiss for the first time, where there isn't a Story mode.  ("Yeah, I wanted to see the story, but someone else skipped so I couldn't see the story.  How do I get to see the story?")

You lead the group. 😏

[Darcmoon]

15 minutes ago, JediQuaker said:

You lead the group. 😏

When doing random FP with the group finder is there a way to ensure you become lead?

[Char_Ell]

1 hour ago, Darcmoon said:

When doing random FP with the group finder is there a way to ensure you become lead?

As far as I can tell the game selects the character with the highest level as the group leader.  If there is more than 1 character with the same highest level (e.g. 2-4 level 80 characters) I'm not sure how the game selects which one becomes the group leader.