7.2 Changes Appreciation

[IIHawkerII]

Hey there, I'm an old hat player that's been around since SWTOR's Beta days - And I just wanted to offer my appreciation for the new PvP changes coming in 7.2. 

I've always thought the PvP season rewards were really cool and I've been back and forth for ages on the idea of getting in game and grinding for them (I used to play a fair bit of unranked) - But every single time I used to even think about jumping into ranked PvP, I'd be scared off by horror stories from other players about how terrible or pointless the experience would end up being. I'm really liking the look of this new system that breaks down the arbitrary barrier between ranked and unranked and normalizes that experience. Really pumped to get back into PvP again.

[JediMasterAlex]

10 hours ago, IIHawkerII said:

I've always thought the PvP season rewards were really cool and I've been back and forth for ages on the idea of getting in game and grinding for them (I used to play a fair bit of unranked) - But every single time I used to even think about jumping into ranked PvP, I'd be scared off by horror stories from other players about how terrible or pointless the experience would end up being. I'm really liking the look of this new system that breaks down the arbitrary barrier between ranked and unranked and normalizes that experience. Really pumped to get back into PvP again.

This is a shame, because those "horror stories" were almost all untrue, or at best lacking context. It was usually players entering ranked with bad gear, no concept of how to play their class and an unwillingness to listen to advice. They whined that the experience was too "toxic" while being wholly unprepared for ranked themselves.

But it's all a moot point now I suppose.

[Floplag]

1 hour ago, JediMasterAlex said:

This is a shame, because those "horror stories" were almost all untrue, or at best lacking context. It was usually players entering ranked with bad gear, no concept of how to play their class and an unwillingness to listen to advice. They whined that the experience was too "toxic" while being wholly unprepared for ranked themselves.

But it's all a moot point now I suppose.

Why does everyone pretend these things never happened?  Why is everyone else a liar?  Why is whatever happened always the other guys fault?  why are their stories always wrong but this narrative that it was always under geared under prepared players, as if that justifies treating like garbage, the only right one? 
This is part of the reason this is happening.

[JediMasterAlex]

18 minutes ago, Floplag said:

Why does everyone pretend these things never happened?  Why is everyone else a liar?  Why is whatever happened always the other guys fault?  why are their stories always wrong but this narrative that it was always under geared under prepared players, as if that justifies treating like garbage, the only right one? 
This is part of the reason this is happening.

I played as much solo ranked as anyone over the past few years (excluding this preseason). I saw the toxicity that was there, and I understand what fueled it. The fact is, if you came into ranked properly geared, at least somewhat knowing your class, and were willing to follow directions and listen to advice, you faced very little toxicity.

In some cases, I actually saw the full progression: people come in and ruin a series of ranked matches by getting globaled, arrogantly asserting that they pay a sub and know what they're doing, and then proceed to post on the forums with nonsense about ranked "toxicity." 

In other words, my opinion is based on direct observation, having played thousands of solo ranked matches. What is your opinion based on? Playing a literal handful of ranked matches and reading forum posts.

Also, you'll notice that this poster didn't actually play ranked. He was just scared off by the "horror stories," the vast majority of which were simply nonsense. That's why I tried to set the record straight as much as possible here over the years.

Finally, none of this has anything to do with them removing ranked. They didn't want to expend resources to moderate it, so given that they did the only logical thing they could do.

[TmoneyTime]

Each season that I played SR there was toxicity and various cheats. Saying it didn't happen isn't really true. The last season I played in was season 10 got to top 3 after about 30 games then started running into people that would slash stuck, afk etc. I've never really enjoyed the 4v4 format to begin with then on top of that all the random shenanigans.. Quiet frankly it was boring compared to 8v8 ranked. Never played again after that.

8v8 had problems as well, but not nearly as much as SR 4's.

Ranking wise 8v8s first 4v4 group second then solo 4's third.

Edited November 10, 2022 by TmoneyTime

[JediMasterAlex]

3 minutes ago, TmoneyTime said:

Each season that I played SR there was toxicity and various cheats. Saying it didn't happen isn't really true.

I never said it didn't happen. I said that when it did happen, it was usually because the person wasn't prepared for ranked in any way. Certainly not always. There were a handful of excessively toxic people, but that wasn't the norm.

There was also the vote kick era, where vote kick was abused heavily. That behavior was unacceptable, and I fought against it in every way that I could. But there is a massive difference between actually vote kicking someone and just telling them that they're bad and don't belong in ranked.

[septru]

1 hour ago, Floplag said:

Why is everyone else a liar?

Sometimes I wished we push back harder against people that cried about the "toxicity" in ranked PvP. 

 

Maybe then unprepared players with no gear and a fresh valor 25 character, wouldn't be able to control the narrative. Because the same stuff happens in NiM raiding, and rp communities, and even regs. 

 

Here's a fact: The past year of preseason has seen more "new" players than any other season. And none of these new players cry about how "toxic" ranked was. Don't believe me? Click on the link in my signature for over 50 hours recordings of preseason PvP. 

[septru]

16 minutes ago, JediMasterAlex said:

There was also the vote kick era, where vote kick was abused heavily. That behavior was unacceptable, and I fought against it in every way that I could. But there is a massive difference between actually vote kicking someone and just telling them that they're bad and don't belong in ranked.

I was the first to admit that I abused vote kick. 

But 9 times out of 10, the people who eventually got vote kicked were asked repeatedly to get gear, practice in regs, and given advice on what to do better. And then they would come to these forums and spread lies about how ranked is a toxic cesspool.... If only I kept the screenshots of their replies when I tried to tell them "Hey friend you might want to save breaker for white bar."

Edited November 10, 2022 by septru

[Floplag]

1 hour ago, JediMasterAlex said:

I played as much solo ranked as anyone over the past few years (excluding this preseason). I saw the toxicity that was there, and I understand what fueled it. The fact is, if you came into ranked properly geared, at least somewhat knowing your class, and were willing to follow directions and listen to advice, you faced very little toxicity.

In some cases, I actually saw the full progression: people come in and ruin a series of ranked matches by getting globaled, arrogantly asserting that they pay a sub and know what they're doing, and then proceed to post on the forums with nonsense about ranked "toxicity." 

In other words, my opinion is based on direct observation, having played thousands of solo ranked matches. What is your opinion based on? Playing a literal handful of ranked matches and reading forum posts.

Also, you'll notice that this poster didn't actually play ranked. He was just scared off by the "horror stories," the vast majority of which were simply nonsense. That's why I tried to set the record straight as much as possible here over the years.

Finally, none of this has anything to do with them removing ranked. They didn't want to expend resources to moderate it, so given that they did the only logical thing they could do.

Exhibit 2... assuming ive played none to justify you being right. 
You have no idea what people have or have not done.   You assume without even considering or listening to them.
People have been telling you this for literally years, you keep denying it... this is WHY they dont want to put resources into it. 

[JediMasterAlex]

1 hour ago, Floplag said:

Exhibit 2... assuming ive played none to justify you being right. 
You have no idea what people have or have not done.   You assume without even considering or listening to them.
People have been telling you this for literally years, you keep denying it... this is WHY they dont want to put resources into it. 

I remember having this exact same conversation with you where you admitted that you only played a handful of ranked matches. Stop lying lol

I'm not "denying" anything. I'm telling you the truth based on what actually happened in solo ranked, because, you know, I actually played it, unlike you. It's all pretty straightforward.

And again, "this" has nothing whatsoever to do with why they don't put resources into it. They just don't care about competitive pvp or maintaining its integrity, mainly because not enough of the player base played it.

The reality is, people like you posting nonsense on the forums kept people like the OP of this thread from playing ranked, which is really shameful.

[TmoneyTime]

The biggest disappointment from the changes was the small part of me that thought just maybe we would see an actual revamp like new game mode que, pvp abilities or gear.

1v1 s

Solo Ranked 8's

2v2's

 

Something to spice things up. All we really got is a battle pass, new vendor and map. I guess from the PVP Revamp wording; I thought we were getting something different.

[illgot]

6 hours ago, JediMasterAlex said:

This is a shame, because those "horror stories" were almost all untrue, or at best lacking context. It was usually players entering ranked with bad gear, no concept of how to play their class and an unwillingness to listen to advice. They whined that the experience was too "toxic" while being wholly unprepared for ranked themselves.

But it's all a moot point now I suppose.

there are good players who are willing to help but there are a lot of children looking to blame everything on their group and will /stuck the moment they don't like something THEN blame their team mates for the loss.

Very few people are the prior and more people are like the latter.

With 8vs8 this will at least thin out all the children because one person being a child in a team of eight is going to have less of an impact than one person in a team of four.

The "oh well there is no toxicity unless you deserve it" is complete bull. Sorry but they paid their subscription, being toxic because they are new isn't deserved. Poorly geared, poorly skilled, or flat out lost players do not deserve to be abused because you think their subscription means less than yours. If you are toxic to anyone for any reason, you are the reason all these "unfounded toxicity stories" exist.

Edited November 10, 2022 by illgot

[septru]

15 minutes ago, illgot said:

there are good players who are willing to help but there are a lot of children looking to blame everything on their group and will /stuck the moment they don't like something THEN blame their team mates for the loss.

Very few people are the prior and more people are like the latter.

With 8vs8 this will at least thin out all the children because one person being a child in a team of eight is going to have less of an impact than one person in a team of four.

You literally makes no sense, mathematically or logically. Honestly I wouldn't care if it wasn't that garbage like was the resasoning for BioWare's ridiculous decisions. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by septru

[illgot]

3 minutes ago, septru said:

You literally makes no sense, mathematically or logically. Honestly I wouldn't care if it wasn't that garbage like this resulted in BioWare's ridiculous decisions. 

logic.

One bad player throwing a tantrum in a 4v4 and /stucking before the game starts or refusing to play has a greater effect on the outcome than one person in a 8v8.

Mathmatically.

1/4th is greater than 1/8th.

This is based on what I read that 8v8 are coming back in ranked.

Edited November 10, 2022 by illgot

[Crystal_Mind]

4 minutes ago, illgot said:

This is based on what I read that 8v8 are coming back in ranked.

You read wrong. There will be no more ranked. It's just an 8v8 regs warzone queue and a 4v4 regs arena queue.

[septru]

1 minute ago, illgot said:

logic.

One bad player throwing a tantrum in a 4v4 and /stucking before the game starts or refusing to play has a greater effect on the outcome than one person in a 8v8.

Mathmatically.

1/4th is more than 1/8th.

This is based on what I read that 8v8 are coming back in ranked.

1) ranked 8v8s are not coming back. ranked 8v8s are gone. ranked 4v4s are gone. skill based competition is gone with it. 

 

2) If there's 1 thrower in a group of 4 (1/4), then that number doubles, there will be 2 throwers in a group of 8 (1/4). The ratio of throwers does not change. It is still 1/4. 

[illgot]

1 minute ago, Crystal_Mind said:

You read wrong. There will be no more ranked. It's just an 8v8 regs warzone queue and a 4v4 regs arena queue.

oh well that's crap. I thought I read that they were just opening up ranked PvP for 4v4 and 8v8 like the earlier days.

[illgot]

3 minutes ago, septru said:

1) ranked 8v8s are not coming back. ranked 8v8s are gone. ranked 4v4s are gone. skill based competition is gone with it. 

 

2) If there's 1 thrower in a group of 4 (1/4), then that number doubles, there will be 2 throwers in a group of 8 (1/4). The ratio of throwers does not change. It is still 1/4. 

no I must have misread something in gen chat. People were talking about 7.2 bringing back 8v8 ranked. Getting rid of ranked completely is bad.

[Prapcaster]

16 minutes ago, illgot said:

no I must have misread something in gen chat. People were talking about 7.2 bringing back 8v8 ranked. Getting rid of ranked completely is bad.

Nope. They're just straight up removing all forms of ranked and giving us a pvp version of galactic seasons. People who think that they're gonna be able to earn ranked rewards are severely misimformed. 

[septru]

31 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

People who think that they're gonna be able to earn ranked rewards are severely misimformed. 

PTS is up. Ranked rewards are available at a new vender with new season currency. 

 

Which means you can literally get the same ranked rewards by losing all your games. 

[Prapcaster]

28 minutes ago, septru said:

PTS is up. Ranked rewards are available at a new vender with new season currency. 

 

Which means you can literally get the same ranked rewards by losing all your games. 

What I mean is that they're not actually "Ranked" pvp rewards. People are excited because they think they're gonna get the same type of rewards as people that have done 4's but they're not. The rewards are gonna be awful.

[imthespamman]

23 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

What I mean is that they're not actually "Ranked" pvp rewards. People are excited because they think they're gonna get the same type of rewards as people that have done 4's but they're not. The rewards are gonna be awful.

They actually will be able to. On the pts you can buy everything that's on Girrada rn for the new pvp season tokens.

[TyrFoge]

8 minutes ago, imthespamman said:

They actually will be able to. On the pts you can buy everything that's on Girrada rn for the new pvp season tokens.

But that's just the PTS. Don't you think the items in that vendor will change? I can't imagine them repurposing the vendors (which they will) and adding the new items without removing the old ones.

[Prapcaster]

17 minutes ago, imthespamman said:

They actually will be able to. On the pts you can buy everything that's on Girrada rn for the new pvp season tokens.

Yeah to be fair to them for once they probably just haven't added the new rewards yet. With ranked seasons they never to be knowlege put the new rewards on the pts.

[Bullyabass]

Warzone player I know queued ranked for a few hours recently.

An hour of fun with people out to enjoy the game then the usual suspects started queuing. Thirty minutes of "look at the regstars die lolz!!!!!" then thirty minutes of the rankers /stucking and giggling about "oh my dog needed out, sorry I had to stuck"

So they stopped qing and the q died 

Reap what you sow