Please walk me through how PvP will be less toxic in 7.2?

[Prapcaster]

1 hour ago, Samcuu said:

Ya know u make a good point. It wasn't just the removal of 8 v 8 that killed pvp guilds, the removal of the pvp gear also contributed. I'm willing to meet you half way and say it was a confluence of events. 

However the rest of what u said is anecdotal, and my viewpoint is as well. I just remember all of the guilds we used to battle it out in 8 v 8 ranked with died when 4 v 4s replaced it. And tbh I played season 2 religiously, and then got busy with life and didn't have the time required to play ranked. I just know that my hardcore pvp friends quit when wpvp and 8 v 8s were killed off. I know some ppl stuck around but imo the pvp community took a huge hit because pvp guilds died and it became a solo thing. 

Fair enough. It doesn't really matter if we agree but it's a terrifying thought that the devs can just remove content from the game because they're sick of monitoring it.

[Samcuu]

5 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

Fair enough. It doesn't really matter if we agree but it's a terrifying thought that the devs can just remove content from the game because they're sick of monitoring it.

I think they don't have the resources to do it properly. I hope it's not because they are sick of it. Feels like overall they are trying to streamline all their systems so they can maintain it with less of a budget. 

[Prapcaster]

Just now, Samcuu said:

I think they don't have the resources to do it properly. I hope it's not because they are sick of it. Feels like overall they are trying to streamline all their systems so they can maintain it with less of a budget. 

If that is the reason maybe they should be honest about it and not give the BS excuse that they're trying to fix toxicity when we all know the most toxic area of the game is the raiding community who gatekeep who is allowed into it. Don't sell us this lie that the players are at fault.

[Bullyabass]

On 11/9/2022 at 8:37 PM, Blakinik said:

You are throwing hardcore PvPers with casual players and the net result will be a bunch of Toxic try hards yelling at people who don't give a crap.  This is a recipe for disaster.

That's exactly how it is right now though I have no idea why you think arena players who never set foot in a warzone without a meme premade are "hardcore".

Taking away ranked is a good start but you're right, they'll need to do more to get the toxic players to finally leave. Removing leaderboards and making the ranked rewards available through pvp seasons should help as well though.

[davensuitelife]

5 hours ago, Prapcaster said:

That's false. Both new world and wow are the most played mmo's in history and they're mainly played for their competetive pvp. I get you had bad experiences in ranked most likely for an issue you won't admit here but you wanting people out of the game for it is more toxic then anything anyone ever said to you. It isn't a tiny fraction of the game dude. If you look at the biggest twitch streamers outside of swtorista who just just dailies all of them do ranked. Look at smokie1313. He gets almost 70 viewers per stream when he's doing ranked.

Wow 70 whole viewers... I like ranked I like arenas but when you have to post on chat for people to que or organize group ranked it's not that big sorry to burst your bubble. And ranked is toxic as hell not inviting to new players or people just getting started in the scene. 

And I said MMOs aren't popping up like new ones. This game has never supported cross server so it never had a true ranked to begin with. 

[davensuitelife]

7 hours ago, Faltun said:

I dont care about rewards, all of them ugly as ****. I didnt even mentioned them in the post, so you re talking non sense. Try to think, they are removing ranked and they add dedicated 4v4 q. Many more 4v4 will be played. They will have to balance even more around 4v4. My post was about making the game easy and dumb and removing the need of skill and thinking planning from the game and reducing the gap between bad and good players. And yeah they re killing the game, use google, check the current population and compare it to 6.0....

BTW please show me the data, the fact about ranked population is the lowest in the game. in the leaderboard i see that ppl played quite many matches.

Go play your class stories, for that you dont need to use your brain and need 0 skill, it fits your capabilities.

Butt hurt much! If it were so popular it wouldn't be removed you 🤡! That's data enough right there you see people played many matches yea it's the same people. If you need a rank to measure you little epeen go play WoW oh wait you probably suck and stick to star wars because class balance is a joke probably an operative lmao. 

[Prapcaster]

13 minutes ago, Bullyabass said:

That's exactly how it is right now though I have no idea why you think arena players who never set foot in a warzone without a meme premade are "hardcore".

Taking away ranked is a good start but you're right, they'll need to do more to get the toxic players to finally leave. Removing leaderboards and making the ranked rewards available through pvp seasons should help as well though.

idk man I play both regs and ranked daily by myself and know a ton of other ranked players that do. If you think forcing people out of the game is a healthy option you've got a couple social issues going on.

[Prapcaster]

1 minute ago, davensuitelife said:

Butt hurt much! If it were so popular it wouldn't be removed you 🤡! That's data enough right there you see people played many matches yea it's the same people. If you need a rank to measure you little epeen go play WoW oh wait you probably suck and stick to star wars because class balance is a joke probably an operative lmao. 

The projection coming from you is actually quite comical. You come across as the typical fleet troll who never actually does pvp.

[davensuitelife]

3 hours ago, Samcuu said:

Ya know u make a good point. It wasn't just the removal of 8 v 8 that killed pvp guilds, the removal of the pvp gear also contributed. I'm willing to meet you half way and say it was a confluence of events. 

However the rest of what u said is anecdotal, and my viewpoint is as well. I just remember all of the guilds we used to battle it out in 8 v 8 ranked with died when 4 v 4s replaced it. And tbh I played season 2 religiously, and then got busy with life and didn't have the time required to play ranked. I just know that my hardcore pvp friends quit when wpvp and 8 v 8s were killed off. I know some ppl stuck around but imo the pvp community took a huge hit because pvp guilds died and it became a solo thing. 

I played 8v8 all the time and yes pvp guilds dying hurt the scene badly. Only having a solo ranked q imo was never going to be substantial. 

[davensuitelife]

1 minute ago, Prapcaster said:

The projection coming from you is actually quite comical. You come across as the typical fleet troll who never actually does pvp.

I play pvp all the time was actually sitting top 5 sorc last season when my uncle got sick and I started to take care of him, missed a ton of time. I love pvp and I want what's best for it having ranked basically only a solo que active was never a reason to keep it around 

 

Did I come across as an ass yup just like the poster did before me. All in all I think putting more people in the playlist and add incentives to play will help. 

[davensuitelife]

13 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

idk man I play both regs and ranked daily by myself and know a ton of other ranked players that do. If you think forcing people out of the game is a healthy option you've got a couple social issues going on.

How is it forcing anyone out of the game. You like 4s only do 4s the only thing that goes away is a rating! 

[Prapcaster]

5 minutes ago, davensuitelife said:

How is it forcing anyone out of the game. You like 4s only do 4s the only thing that goes away is a rating! 

The reason it forces people out because the rating system made people want to perform better and kept a more or less seperate queue. Not a great reason to wanna play better but it is what it is. Now 4's queues will be shareed with people that are most likely gonna afk for the rewards.

[davensuitelife]

5 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

The reason it forces people out because the rating system made people want to perform better and kept a more or less seperate queue. Not a great reason to wanna play better but it is what it is. Now 4's queues will be shareed with people that are most likely gonna afk for the rewards.

We'll have to wait and see. I'm an optimist hoping for the best. 

[Samcuu]

1 hour ago, Prapcaster said:

The reason it forces people out because the rating system made people want to perform better and kept a more or less seperate queue. Not a great reason to wanna play better but it is what it is. Now 4's queues will be shareed with people that are most likely gonna afk for the rewards.

Idk man there's always gonna be players who will actually afk for rewards. However the warzone weekly is long and arduous if ur not trying, and it's not fun at all to git rekt. That should be enough incentive to learn to play ur class better for most ppl. 

Imo the average skill level of players started diminishing when pvp guilds died. I for example was brand new to trinity style mmos when the game launched. I wasn't a good player. My friends who were wow vets taught me how to keybind my abilities, basics of rotations and dcds, pushed me to get a 12 button mouse ect,  That was all done within a guild dedicated to pvp. I wasn't the only person who was taught how to play either. Best way to improve the skill level of players is to revitalize pvp guilds somehow. Ranked never did that. 7.2 might be better in that aspect. 

[Prapcaster]

24 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Idk man there's always gonna be players who will actually afk for rewards. However the warzone weekly is long and arduous if ur not trying, and it's not fun at all to git rekt. That should be enough incentive to learn to play ur class better for most ppl. 

Imo the average skill level of players started diminishing when pvp guilds died. I for example was brand new to trinity style mmos when the game launched. I wasn't a good player. My friends who were wow vets taught me how to keybind my abilities, basics of rotations and dcds, pushed me to get a 12 button mouse ect,  That was all done within a guild dedicated to pvp. I wasn't the only person who was taught how to play either. Best way to improve the skill level of players is to revitalize pvp guilds somehow. Ranked never did that. 7.2 might be better in that aspect. 

I agree the weekly needed some work and this milestone tracker would be a breath of fresh air. But again. Why are they deleting an entire game mode for this? This all seems like very abrupt and emotion based decision instead of an actual road map. 

[septru]

33 minutes ago, Samcuu said:

Best way to improve the skill level of players is to revitalize pvp guilds somehow. Ranked never did that. 7.2 might be better in that aspect.

@SamcuuYou seem like you're genuinely trying to be open minded to the changes, and I understand why. 

 

But none of the changes will bring pvp guilds. You're kidding yourself if you think they will. If anything, 7.2 removes the last incentive for players to actually try to improve. You can literally AFK and progress through PvP Seasons because many of the missions are just "Complete X warzone." 

 

Moreover, BioWare doesn't have to kill competition or ranked pvp to make pvp in general more friendly to casuals. 
 

There are a lot of trolls on these forums that want to burn ranked to the ground because their bother's dog's friend's cousin told them ranked was toxic. But I don't know how you or any reasonable personal can defend 7.2 knowing full well that it will kill what is left of the PvP community. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by septru

[Faltun]

7 hours ago, davensuitelife said:

Butt hurt much! If it were so popular it wouldn't be removed you 🤡! That's data enough right there you see people played many matches yea it's the same people. If you need a rank to measure you little epeen go play WoW oh wait you probably suck and stick to star wars because class balance is a joke probably an operative lmao. 

yeah... sniper for 11 years. yeah population charts not lying, many more players played that time, like i said google it if you know how to do that.... im interested in star wars universe... and why would i play wow which has an even easier gameplay and a really dumb combat system, its a game for you....  Well i guess i shouldnt argue with a player under 100 iq....

[Llacertus]

I don't see why people keep bring up this argument that ranked is super toxic. When I que solos, it's very rare that I see anyone getting flamed. I see way more toxicity on fleet chat and in general unranked warzones than in solo ranked. People only feel toxicity in ranked more because in 4v4's there's more pressure on the player to perform well. Its understandable to feel this way, but it stops being acceptable when people run to the forums claiming all ranked is toxic because of 1 bad experience. The vast majority of all ranked players are generally chill people.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Llacertus

[Shekshas]

8 hours ago, septru said:

There are a lot of trolls on these forums that want to burn ranked to the ground because their bother's dog's friend's cousin told them ranked was toxic. But I don't know how you or any reasonable personal can defend 7.2 knowing full well that it will kill what is left of the PvP community. 

Preach my friend, truer words have never been spoken.

[TmoneyTime]

I think the changes are actually going in a good direction. Everyone is over reacting a little bit.

The only thing they need to do is have a leaderboard/ladder system for 4vs and 8s that can be opted into. If that was added no one would be complaining. Assuming matchmaking works correctly for groups.

 

Adding a leaderboard for both ques fixes the issues and makes 7.2 pvp changes good actually. Just think about the current changes with a leaderboard system that resets every 90 days. It would bring way more people into pvp and Bioware really wouldn't have to manage it. 

 

What they want to get away from is the dev time put into ranked for such a small player base with rewards, titles, etc. It doesn't make financial sense for them to invest in it. If they just had a simple leaderboard that reset every so often it would be fine. That would take all of about 4 hours to make and never have to be touched again.

Edited November 11, 2022 by TmoneyTime

[septru]

26 minutes ago, TmoneyTime said:

I think the changes are actually going in a good direction. Everyone is over reacting a little bit.

 

At first, I would have agreed with you. But there are more and more details that are just the icing on the cake. 

1. Removal of pvp flags that players played hundreds of hours of earn. 
2. The fact that several of the pvp daily/weekly objectives can be completed without ever winning a single game. 
3. The lack of meaningful matchmaking. 
4. The removal of the scoreboards at the end of the game. 

But I think the real concern is that competition is literally the most important part of PvP.  PvP can't function without competition, there's literally 0 reasons for anyone ever to improve. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by septru

[Nee-Elder]

11 minutes ago, septru said:

3. The lack of meaningful matchmaking. 

Can you elaborate on that ^  please  @septru ?

i didn't see anything about it  here:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/925871-72-pvp-feedback  ...and  for some reason BioWare hasn't uploaded the  7.2 LiveStream  onto their YouTube page yet.

[septru]

6 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

Can you elaborate on that ^  please  @septru ?

i didn't see anything about it  here:  https://forums.swtor.com/topic/925871-72-pvp-feedback  ...and  for some reason BioWare hasn't uploaded the  7.2 LiveStream  onto their YouTube page yet.

The current MMR system in regs does not balance teams based on premades, and barely balances the skill of players. It only balances the numbers of tanks and healers on both teams. 

 

Which means, among other things, you will probably see 4 man premades against 4 solo players in an arena que. 

Edited November 11, 2022 by septru

[Samcuu]

42 minutes ago, septru said:

The removal of the scoreboards at the end of the game. 

Okay never mind I'm on ur side now my dood. That's unacceptable, and can't happen. 

[septru]

1 minute ago, Samcuu said:

Okay never mind I'm on ur side now my dood. That's unacceptable, and can't happen. 

The saddest part is the scoreboards were how I got into my first pvp guild and met most of my friends. 

 

I still remember messaging people in 2.0 "wow you're really good. nice healing! want to PvP together?"