Fix Inflation PLEASE

[Darcmoon]

2 hours ago, denavin said:

Credit Syncs will only hurt players that do NOT have Hundreds of Millions to Billions of credits.

It makes it very hard to get ahead when everything costs Millions of credits more, than you have. When you can't afford to repair your gear or use the local taxi, then Credit Sync becomes the problem.

As a low level player I ran out of credits and did not have enough to pay the Taxi. I figured I'd go fight some mobs as I have done before. Well the mobs dropped NOTHING. I could not pay to get my gear repaired. Or pay for the shuttle off of Tython.

I had to take a level 80 character and send credits to low level character, just so I could continue to play the game.

I have not been able to buy ANYTHING off of the GTN for at least 3 to 4  years. I simply do not have the Hundreds of Millions to Billions of credits necessary to buy anything anymore. It's fortunate that I have played this game long enough to have been able to outfit my characters with enough collection gear that I no longer need to buy anything off of the stupidly over priced GTN.

 

My suggestion for Inflation Control is a little more radical...

 

• Simply put,
• No Player can have MORE that 100 million Credits.
• NOTHING can cost more than 50 million Credits.
• Thus the Permanent end to Inflation.
• The permanent end to Credit Sellers, and Credit Farmers.
• The permanent ability for players to be able to outfit their characters they way the want, instead of what they can afford.

 

Its not popular I know, but I don't care anymore.

IT WILL end Inflation PERMANENTLY.

Entitlement and Elitists rants....

To Follow....

I agree.  It would end inflation permanently.  Unfortunately I’m also positive it would only end it permanently because they would have enough people quit the game that they would have to shut it down. 

[Nee-Elder]

3 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

By that measure then none of the classes get do do what their ‘job’ is much if ever.   

After the stories are done, how often does the Agent do infiltration missions, how often do troopers go on military missions, etc?  

That is unfortunately one of the limitations we have to deal with while playing the game.  

Your first sentence isn't accurate, since BH's have a very particular/unique LORE-driven specialty that defines them (aka hunting bounty targets and especially player targets) which is obviously limited to a far greater extreme than the other 7 Classes.

As to your 2nd sentence,  i believe you are incorrect, since  Agents  "infiltrate"  (aka go stealth/cloak)  literally ALL THE TIME....and all across the game galaxy.  Even on Fleet!  Furthermore, Troopers go on "missions"  literally ALL THE TIME (ever heard of 'Heroics' ?  or 'Dailys' ?  or Ops? or FP's? . etc. etc. )

So, while i respect your reply, i don't think your counterpoint holds any water in this case.   And as to your 3rd sentence:  i've been dealing with it just fine since 2010/2011 beta , but that doesn't mean i have to give up the good fight (for more content) .

1 minute ago, Darcmoon said:

 Unfortunately I’m also positive it would only end it permanently because they would have enough people quit the game that they would have to shut it down. 

But umm, that is already happening (and gonna happen) anyway, no? 

[OlBuzzard]

Oddly enough as long as I've played this game there has always been enough credits available to keep me going.

** NO ...  I did not have BiS in anything up to and including all of 5.0

** I pretty much buy what I "want to" off of the GTN.

** I SELDOM purchase stuff off of the CM  (Although the last few months I have picked up a couple of weapons).  It's only been within the last 3 years that I made use of the "collections" part of the CM for items used on multiple characters (including crystals).

** I had fewer than 400 Mil on ALL total characters until approximately 3 years ago when I decided to do something about the situation.  I actually decided to buy / sell stuff on the GTN.  It was easy to earn enough to take care of stuff that I wanted.  

Please note the term WANTED.  I very seldom use(d) the GTN to supply stuff to play the game.  Augments and Mods have just about been the only two things I've really found the need to purchase from time to time.  Everything else has been provided in game through various aspects of playing the game.

Getting new players / accounts started??   It is also true that the first few chapters have poor drops / less credits and consequently make getting started out difficult.  That said, once started there are plenty of opportunities for growth in game.  This does, however, take more than just logging in and blindly running through the story.  This is true not only for SWTOR but other games (ie WoW) as well.  It should be noted that I'm familiar with both WoW and STO.  I have accounts in both games.  STO is very much active. and I have just a very modest amount of "Energy Credits" (nothing compared to this game).  I can also tell you that I still pretty much enjoy the game as I want to.

Want to ??  I have intentionally not spelled out what I WANT TO whether in game stuff, developing Strongholds, purchasing equipment, armor ... etc.  for a reason.  I have over the years learned that if I don't control that aspect of my life, it will control and dominate it.  

Before I demand that others have their possessions taken from them by force, I believe that we need a more sound resolution focused on areas that allow exploitation (such as credit sellers)...  provide a more positive means of investing resources (perhaps even in game play).

There has always been and always will be those who know how to rack up huge amounts of various currencies available.  (I saw this even in an old Star Trek game: Starfleet Command Orion Pirates.  There were some players that played so much that they had accumulated "prestige points" to the point they could purchase ANY ship they wanted and IF they lost it ... replace said ship immediately.  It should be noted that to me back in those days that seemed totally insane.   (That was back in 2001).  I've since learned that there always will be that element in game.

There MUST be a better way to solve this.  I refuse to believe otherwise.  I also believe that it will take time to see this sorted out.  And (for whatever it is worth) ...  providing some outlet or means of spending those tons of credits might be one piece to that puzzle.

[Darcmoon]

2 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Your first sentence isn't accurate, since BH's have a very particular/unique LORE-driven specialty that defines them (aka hunting bounty targets and especially player targets) which is obviously limited to a far greater extreme than the other 7 Classes.

As to your 2nd sentence,  i believe you are incorrect, since  Agents  "infiltrate"  (aka go stealth/cloak)  literally ALL THE TIME....and all across the game galaxy.  Even on Fleet!  Furthermore, Troopers go on "missions"  literally ALL THE TIME (ever heard of 'Heroics' ?  or 'Dailys' ?  or Ops? or FP's? . etc. etc. )

So, while i respect your reply, i don't think your counterpoint holds any water in this case.   And as to your 3rd sentence:  i've been dealing with it just fine since 2010/2011 beta , but that doesn't mean i have to give up the good fight (for more content) .

But umm, that is already happening (and gonna happen) anyway, no? 

But the LORE doesn’t say anything about PLAYER targets.  It is all about hunting down others in the universe.  Sometimes even objects.  

As for your assertion that agents ‘infiltrate’, you are deliberately skewing my intentions.  If not deliberately, then I don’t know how you could come to that conclusion.  The same goes for troopers.  If they go on missions all the time then you have to say bounty hunters ‘hunt’ all the time also since they get ‘bounties’, even if they aren’t specifically labeled as that.   Those ‘bounties’ have them hunting for a person(s), item(s), or both. 
You may say my counterpoint doesn’t hold any water and that is your opinion, my opinion is that your response to my counterpoint didn’t hold any weight either. 

[eabevella]

You can *never* "take away" people's credits. That would destroy the game. End of story.

Bioware need to STOP credit sellers. If they don't do that, whatever "fix" we think of won't treat the disease.

Bioware need to either PUT A LIMIT to Trade (my proposal is 1 item + 1m credits) or TAX Trade (suggested by other people in this thread, which sounds better) so that traders can't do tax evasion through Trade. Tax % can be raised but it's not the point at this stage (should be secondary objective AFTER the actual fix).

PS: Just a funny thought. My country used to have huge inflation during WWII. The government fixed it by forcing a new currency post WWII with the exchange rate or 40,000 old : 1 new currency. It is much more difficult to launch a new currency in the real world (you'll have to have your new currency acknowledged globally. The government will have to back it up with actual gold etc.), but it may be done in game with some story back up.

For example, it's announced that the inflation destroyed the economy during the war against the Eternal Empire (which is already canon lol) and the Republic/Empire decided to fix it by launching the New Credit (do they even use the same Credit?). The currency players gain after the big patch will be the New Credits, and players can exchange their Old Credits through official or underground exchange kiosks (because there will be a lot to cover... sub vs f2p/pref, actual exchange rate, people who don't have enough credits to meet the minimum exchange rate etc.).

I think it's even more beautiful lore-wise because in Andor, we know that 80M Credits are A LOT, something that drove me crazy when I watched the show. It would be fun if the inflation during the Old Republic era is an actual thing that got fixed (I know SWTOR is technically EU but it's still amusing).

If Bioware stop credit sellers/farmers, this could be a semi-reboot of the market without taking credits away from players. But I also know this is too huge a project to be actually implemented by Bioware lmao

[Nee-Elder]

41 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

You may say my counterpoint doesn’t hold any water and that is your opinion.  My opinion is that your response to my counterpoint didn’t hold any weight either. 

 ^ The best representation of humans in 2022 ^

And round & round we go....to nowhere.

[Darcmoon]

27 minutes ago, eabevella said:

You can *never* "take away" people's credits. That would destroy the game. End of story.

Bioware need to STOP credit sellers. If they don't do that, whatever "fix" we think of won't treat the disease.

Bioware need to either PUT A LIMIT to Trade (my proposal is 1 item + 1m credits) or TAX Trade (suggested by other people in this thread, which sounds better) so that traders can't do tax evasion through Trade. Tax % can be raised but it's not the point at this stage (should be secondary objective AFTER the actual fix).

PS: Just a funny thought. My country used to have huge inflation during WWII. The government fixed it by forcing a new currency post WWII with the exchange rate or 40,000 old : 1 new currency. It is much more difficult to launch a new currency in the real world (you'll have to have your new currency acknowledged globally. The government will have to back it up with actual gold etc.), but it may be done in game with some story back up.

For example, it's announced that the inflation destroyed the economy during the war against the Eternal Empire (which is already canon lol) and the Republic/Empire decided to fix it by launching the New Credit (do they even use the same Credit?). The currency players gain after the big patch will be the New Credits, and players can exchange their Old Credits through official or underground exchange kiosks (because there will be a lot to cover... sub vs f2p/pref, actual exchange rate, people who don't have enough credits to meet the minimum exchange rate etc.).

I think it's even more beautiful lore-wise because in Andor, we know that 80M Credits are A LOT, something that drove me crazy when I watched the show. It would be fun if the inflation during the Old Republic era is an actual thing that got fixed (I know SWTOR is technically EU but it's still amusing).

If Bioware stop credit sellers/farmers, this could be a semi-reboot of the market without taking credits away from players. But I also know this is too huge a project to be actually implemented by Bioware lmao

Doing a credit exchange from the current credits to a new credit type is effectively taking peoples credits.  It may not be as big an uproar but I’d say the majority would still count it as taking/stealing credits.  

[eabevella]

12 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

Doing a credit exchange from the current credits to a new credit type is effectively taking peoples credits.  It may not be as big an uproar but I’d say the majority would still count it as taking/stealing credits.  

You can't please everyone, people WILL complain when the end result is less zero-s in their bank, but currency exchange isn't the same as "taking a few zero-s away" as a few people here have suggested. You implement a new system and force people to scale down the number they use.

In order to fix a big problem, you often have to make many people angry, which is why Bioware would rather let it rot.

Plus if credit sellers/farmers aren't banned, the inflation will come back day 1 the new system is launched. As I said, if they don't fix that, whatever methods we mentioned here are meaningless regardless of their pros and cons.

[Darcmoon]

13 minutes ago, eabevella said:

You can't please everyone, people WILL complain when the end result is less zero-s in their bank, but currency exchange isn't the same as "taking a few zero-s away" as a few people here have suggested. You implement a new system and force people to scale down the number they use.

In order to fix a big problem, you often have to make many people angry, which is why Bioware would rather let it rot.

Plus if credit sellers/farmers aren't banned, the inflation will come back day 1 the new system is launched. As I said, if they don't fix that, whatever methods we mentioned here are meaningless regardless of their pros and cons.

It is still close enough to it that a lot of people would call it taking/stealing their credits.   I personally think it would cause a number of people to quit the game for good.  Additionally, if the did the conversion but left the vendor prices the same in new credits as the current ones (IE. 500 credits (new or current) for item x) then there is no difference between the conversion and just taking the credits.  Even then, people are going to loose some credits in the conversion because they will have some of the current ones left over that aren’t enough to buy the new credit. 

[eabevella]

15 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

It is still close enough to it that a lot of people would call it taking/stealing their credits.   I personally think it would cause a number of people to quit the game for good.  Additionally, if the did the conversion but left the vendor prices the same in new credits as the current ones (IE. 500 credits (new or current) for item x) then there is no difference between the conversion and just taking the credits.  Even then, people are going to loose some credits in the conversion because they will have some of the current ones left over that aren’t enough to buy the new credit. 

Yes, they have to cover a lot of grounds if they want to do a big change like that, and no way everyone will be happy, and no way any transitional system is perfect, which is why I don't think Bioware will every try something remotely drastic, meaning there won't be any meaningful fix to the inflation.

For any big "fix", you need something solid that can keep players around despite the inconvenience, which should be quality solo stories and raids that upgrade in a steady, firm pace for this game. But we all know that Bioware doesn't do that in years.

[illgot]

3 hours ago, Darcmoon said:

Doing a credit exchange from the current credits to a new credit type is effectively taking peoples credits.  It may not be as big an uproar but I’d say the majority would still count it as taking/stealing credits.  

This could work if the current currency remains active. Current credits are bonze credits. Next are silver credits. Silver credits are worth 1,000,000 bronze credits. Next are gold credits worth 1,000,000 silver, then platinum credits worth 1,000,000 gold credits.

Players would need the ability to exchange credits back and forth and currency checks need to be added so players aren't accidentally posting or buying items using the wrong currency.

The current credit limits can remain if needed as long as bioware rolls over excess credits past the limit to the next currency level.

Edited October 18, 2022 by illgot

[Darcmoon]

16 minutes ago, illgot said:

This could work if the current currency remains active. Current credits are bonze credits. Next are silver credits. Silver credits are worth 1,000,000 bronze credits. Next are gold credits worth 1,000,000 silver, then platinum credits worth 1,000,000 gold credits.

Players would need the ability to exchange credits back and forth and currency checks need to be added so players aren't accidentally posting or buying items using the wrong currency.

The current credit limits can remain if needed as long as bioware rolls over excess credits past the limit to the next currency level.

That could work but IMO if that is what they wanted to do, it would have been better to do it from the beginning.  Bronze, silver, gold, plat as a monetary system shouldn’t be that high going from one to the other.  Additionally, using that system wouldn’t actually do anything about inflation since it would only make it look like things were cheaper on the surface.  Rewards would still be in bronze credits so the problem of getting, say, 10 plat credits to buy something is the same as it is now with just the one level of credits. 

[illgot]

23 minutes ago, Darcmoon said:

That could work but IMO if that is what they wanted to do, it would have been better to do it from the beginning.  Bronze, silver, gold, plat as a monetary system shouldn’t be that high going from one to the other.  Additionally, using that system wouldn’t actually do anything about inflation since it would only make it look like things were cheaper on the surface.  Rewards would still be in bronze credits so the problem of getting, say, 10 plat credits to buy something is the same as it is now with just the one level of credits. 

it wouldn't fix inflation but it would make inflation less dire with our 104 billion legacy credit cap.

At the moment we are hitting a point where credits will become worthless in about a year because everyone is going to hit the legacy cap. If you can't hold anymore credits and they are easy to obtain, they are ultimately worthless.

Edited October 18, 2022 by illgot

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, illgot said:

credits will become worthless in about a year because everyone is going to hit the legacy cap.

Will the game even last that long though?  (serious question btw)

Also:  i think  "everyone" is overstating it a bit lol ....but ...i'm very curious to know if BioWare would ever consider revealing their internal metrics to tell us  how many currently active players have OVER:

• 100 million credits
• 1 billion credits
• 25 billion credits
• 50+ billion credits

[ZUHFB]

2 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Will the game even last that long though?  (serious question btw)

Also:  i think  "everyone" is overstating it a bit lol ....but ...i'm very curious to know if BioWare would ever consider revealing their internal metrics to tell us  how many currently active players have OVER:

• 100 million credits
• 1 billion credits
• 25 billion credits
• 50+ billion credits

It doesn't say much though, people with 50b+ have large amounts of it in items just so their credits don't devalue with this inflation, owning 50b+ is just wasting credits.

[DreadtechSavant]

9 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

 ^ The best representation of humans in 2022 ^

And round & round we go....to nowhere.

Best post ever.

[superweasell]

On 10/13/2022 at 10:31 AM, Char_Ell said:

I understand the sentiment but your proposed solutions to lower the game economy's inflation rate would have other not-so-positive consequences.  There is no easy solution to the inflation problem that would not have negative repercussions.  I think the adage "pick your poison" appropriately describes what BioWare faces with SWTOR's game economy.  There are negative outcomes for staying the course and there are negative outcomes for making changes.

How would Cartel Market sales revenue be impacted by such a change?  I can't imagine it would be positive and I'm pretty sure BioWare would not want to take a hit on Cartel Market revenue.

One player is in an ops group and doesn't have a stim.  Another player has an extra stim to provide but can't trade with the other player because player-to-player trades are no longer allowed.

Just a couple of things I thought of off the top of my head.

So then, what if (and this would take a lot of work on the Company's part) every item had an in-game Credit Purchase cost?  Cartel Market items bought with in-game credits would be listed higher than the cost to buy from the Cartel Market.  So Cartel Market purchase would be more economical.  But this would put an in-game credit ceiling on all items.  Players could still sell items for just a bit less than their in-game credit purchase price  (or more if they could find people silly enough to spend their in-game credits), so that option to make credits is still viable.

Just an idea that probably needs some work.  But its a thought.

[septru]

4 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Also:  i think  "everyone" is overstating it a bit lol .

I don't think so. I actually think in about a year the average (casual) player will have reached the credit cap. Remember, inflation is an exponentially growing issue. Which means, as inflation grows, the rate of inflation grows too. 

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

It doesn't say much though, people with 50b+ have large amounts of it in items just so their credits don't devalue with this inflation,

Fair point, and i'm probably guilty of this myself tbqh  lol  i been "hording"  rare/old items since 2012

17 minutes ago, septru said:

I don't think so. I actually think in about a year the average (casual) player will have reached the credit cap. Remember, inflation is an exponentially growing issue. Which means, as inflation grows, the rate of inflation grows too. 

Also a fair point ^ , however i still think---just like in RL---only a mere fraction of people are truly "rich" (monetarily speaking of course  ) .

[akdonkey]

About the only way they could control the economy here is if they sold All cartel items for ingame credits to regulate prices. We all know that will not happen.

[Char_Ell]

3 hours ago, superweasell said:

So then, what if (and this would take a lot of work on the Company's part) every item had an in-game Credit Purchase cost?  Cartel Market items bought with in-game credits would be listed higher than the cost to buy from the Cartel Market.  So Cartel Market purchase would be more economical.  But this would put an in-game credit ceiling on all items.  Players could still sell items for just a bit less than their in-game credit purchase price  (or more if they could find people silly enough to spend their in-game credits), so that option to make credits is still viable.

Just an idea that probably needs some work.  But its a thought.

I'm not sure I understand exactly how your proposed solution would work.  Maybe if you gave a specific example of a Cartel Market item and what its price cap would be it would make it clearer for me.

In all honesty I'm more interested in what causes the inflation as BioWare are the ones that would have to implement any attempts to lower the in-game economy's inflation rate, not players, and only they know what possible solutions are feasible for them and which really are not.  BioWare has yet to engage this controversial topic and I don't expect they will.  I feel it's tough to come up with effective solutions if the cause of the problem is not clearly understood.

[fordpre]

12 hours ago, eabevella said:

You can *never* "take away" people's credits. That would destroy the game. End of story.

Bioware need to STOP credit sellers. If they don't do that, whatever "fix" we think of won't treat the disease.

Bioware need to either PUT A LIMIT to Trade (my proposal is 1 item + 1m credits) or TAX Trade (suggested by other people in this thread, which sounds better) so that traders can't do tax evasion through Trade. Tax % can be raised but it's not the point at this stage (should be secondary objective AFTER the actual fix).

PS: Just a funny thought. My country used to have huge inflation during WWII. The government fixed it by forcing a new currency post WWII with the exchange rate or 40,000 old : 1 new currency. It is much more difficult to launch a new currency in the real world (you'll have to have your new currency acknowledged globally. The government will have to back it up with actual gold etc.), but it may be done in game with some story back up.

For example, it's announced that the inflation destroyed the economy during the war against the Eternal Empire (which is already canon lol) and the Republic/Empire decided to fix it by launching the New Credit (do they even use the same Credit?). The currency players gain after the big patch will be the New Credits, and players can exchange their Old Credits through official or underground exchange kiosks (because there will be a lot to cover... sub vs f2p/pref, actual exchange rate, people who don't have enough credits to meet the minimum exchange rate etc.).

I think it's even more beautiful lore-wise because in Andor, we know that 80M Credits are A LOT, something that drove me crazy when I watched the show. It would be fun if the inflation during the Old Republic era is an actual thing that got fixed (I know SWTOR is technically EU but it's still amusing).

If Bioware stop credit sellers/farmers, this could be a semi-reboot of the market without taking credits away from players. But I also know this is too huge a project to be actually implemented by Bioware lmao

I like the idea of a graduated sales tax, the higher the trade the more tax you pay. Although it would only work if you disabled direct player trades and COD.

 

[OlBuzzard]

15 minutes ago, Char_Ell said:

....

In all honesty I'm more interested in what causes the inflation as BioWare are the ones that would have to implement any attempts to lower the in-game economy's inflation rate, not players, and only they know what possible solutions are feasible for them and which really are not.  BioWare has yet to engage this controversial topic and I don't expect they will.  I feel it's tough to come up with effective solutions if the cause of the problem is not clearly understood.

Agreed 100% !!  Right dead on!

(additionally)

** Yes, a solution of some sort is probably needed.

** Credit sellers without question is a serious contributor.  This hurts everyone either directly (or indirectly) whether we see / understand it (or not). 

** The solution really needs to strike at the cause (not penalize everyone in the process).  Otherwise, it will not be long, and we WILL be right back where we started from. (Not good!!) 

** If there is any part of the "sales" of merchandise that is not currently monitored I would guess that this is stuff sold outside of the GTN.  While I'm not calling for this to be discontinued, perhaps a good question might be should those transactions be taxed? (Particularly for items priced / sold for over 100 mil). 

Lastly:  IMO these discussions are good!  Kudos for the overall trying to help each other get to the bottom of this.  We might disagree ...  but IMO it is imperative that we keep trying!!

[OlBuzzard]

8 hours ago, illgot said:

it wouldn't fix inflation but it would make inflation less dire with our 104 billion legacy credit cap.

At the moment we are hitting a point where credits will become worthless in about a year because everyone is going to hit the legacy cap. If you can't hold anymore credits and they are easy to obtain, they are ultimately worthless.

Just curious (not in a critical way)..  BUT what happens when some of those credits simply become .. well .. useless??  

** Stuff we want is more readily available in game (earned via drops or other methods).

** CM stuff is easier to get ??

(Hmmm  let me explain that a bit) ...  Sometimes items like "Security Cameras", "Emergency Response Droids", "Gatekeepers", Aquariums are found only in larger bundles.  Purchasing these off the GTN individually can also be a bit insane...  Soooo  What happens when those are repackaged from time to time at a really good discount???   Just asking.

** Crafting stuff takes a more active place in the grander scheme of things again!  Some of that stuff use to be pretty good.  Now it seems like it's kind of lost.  Perhaps even a separate market for "Crafted Items"?  Again ...  just a thought (and probably not that great).

IMO these would be steps to make stuff that players want more accessible without necessarily turning to the GTN as the means to get everything else that doesn't "drop" in game.

Edited October 18, 2022 by OlBuzzard

[Curennos]

Returning player here. This is the primary thing that's been killing my interest in the game. I'm primarily a casual/RPer - aka the only war I fight is fashion wars. I remember when I started playing around 2018, I think, and I managed to outfit my character for 20m. Now a frickn slightly fancy belt can cost more than that. Some items I won't even know are options unless I pay attention to trade chat (which may be a fair requirement) or join a Discord server for trades because the auction house only goes up to 1b in price (which is ridiculous) and anything worth beyond that just won't be listed. I see folks trying to buy titles for 40 BILLION and there are STILL credit sellers in chat offering 1b = 1$.

 

It's mind boggling how this was allowed to spiral out of control for years on end.