Win Trading - How to Fix it?

[errordataguy]

Hello,

My favorite game mode in SWTOR is PVP warzones. Most of the time when I queue for unranked warzones, I queue solo. Sometimes I queue with my fiancee when she's available.

 

I won't mention names, but unranked PVP is a hit or miss due to people manipulating the system. I always play hard and try my best, but I get discouraged when I see the same group of 4 people in the same group...I've seen the same group of people saying "you win" in chat before the warzone actually starts. They're talking on voice via discord, and logging into different characters to cheat the system to get their daily/weekly mission done across multiple characters across their account legacy.

 

If I'm stuck in a warzone where people are voice chatting "you win this one, I'll lose the next one" how is that fair to me, who is fairly playing and doesn't manipulate anything, just doing my best to do the objectives?

 

When I get stuck in a warzone with the aforementioned people, I win, if the win traders allow it. If I'm stuck with the same people next warzone, I notice they give no effort whatsoever and I lose.

 

My suggestion is to make PvP more balanced, maybe make it so only 2 people can queue in a group together for PvP. If 4 people at the same time are logging in together and saying "you win this round, I win next round" it takes the fun out of SWTOR PvP.

 

Thoughts/Suggestions? My initial thought is maybe SWTOR can develop an API with discord. Cheaters are never disciplined; the free to play cheaters do get banned, but the paid subscribers seem to be untouchable. I've also seen F2P users get banned for using macros, but subs using macros have no action taken whatsoever against them.

 

V/R

Red

[septru]

5 hours ago, errordataguy said:

I've seen the same group of people saying "you win" in chat before the warzone actually starts. They're talking on voice via discord,

If they're in discord, why would they say "you win" in chat? 

[ZUHFB]

38 minutes ago, septru said:

If they're in discord, why would they say "you win" in chat? 

Are you surprised? They are wintrading in regs, I could see this happen from a person that "complex"

[Whiskey_jak]

LOL. Nobody is wintrading in regs. This has to be a troll post.

[abhaxus]

10/10, will be on the lookout for more content from OP

[Alericus]

https://forums.swtor.com/topic/881858-how-to-report-cheating-and-win-trading 

 

justa email it in let BW decide...you cna track the players by name and see if they are suddenly off for a while..trust me it happens, the dingdongs are dumb enuf to post in whisper and guild chat, so stupid but funny too

[Prapcaster]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:40 AM, ZUHFB said:

Are you surprised? They are wintrading in regs, I could see this happen from a person that "complex"

I've seen people throw the term wintrading around a lot in regs lately. I think mainly by people who browse the forums then use it as a buzzword when they see people damage farming with friends. Could you expand on what you mean by wintrading in regs? Because there's really no rewards to be gained by genuinely wintrading in them. 

[Floplag]

There is no win trading in regs... more like win throwing with putting numbers over results. 

[-Garmonbozia]

And as dmg farmers go, honestly they pay to play the same as everyone else. If they'd rather go in and do dmg. they should be allowed to do that. Furthermore, if they're any good at it and if the other four are any good at objectives, this is typically an easy win. The problem comes when the other four expect to be carried by the good players who can do damage and can't manage anything on their own.

[Floplag]

4 hours ago, -Garmonbozia said:

And as dmg farmers go, honestly they pay to play the same as everyone else. If they'd rather go in and do dmg. they should be allowed to do that. Furthermore, if they're any good at it and if the other four are any good at objectives, this is typically an easy win. The problem comes when the other four expect to be carried by the good players who can do damage and can't manage anything on their own.

Heres the problem with this... if i went into ranked and didnt play to win, would you say the same?  I paid my money same as you so... shouldn that apply?
IF they are that good, shouldnt they be able to do both?

[YaddleTwo]

There is win trading in unranked although it doesn't happen a lot. However there are times when people just sit off to the side when they are clearly not afk or anything, and don't help the team they're on, usually they are complaining that 'they suck' or something along that lines, those are the idiots you need to watch for really imho

[ZUHFB]

3 hours ago, Floplag said:

Heres the problem with this... if i went into ranked and didnt play to win, would you say the same?  I paid my money same as you so... shouldn that apply?
IF they are that good, shouldnt they be able to do both?

Here is the thing, nobody farms damage in ranked. I can only do that in warzones because usually don't face sentient beings, so they don't attack me so I can play very aggressively and get away with anything. I cannot do that in ranked and the WZ players will never be able to punish me in ranked cuz they didn't learn it in the warzone and that is why playing objective actually makes people worse.

Nevermind there is an actual reward behind ranked and if you throw someones 1500 game they won't be happy. While winning a warzone... gives nothing? There is no reason to win a warzone, give me one and I'll still damage farm because that is how to win, but I don't want to get into that.

[Floplag]

10 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

Here is the thing, nobody farms damage in ranked. I can only do that in warzones because usually don't face sentient beings, so they don't attack me so I can play very aggressively and get away with anything. I cannot do that in ranked and the WZ players will never be able to punish me in ranked cuz they didn't learn it in the warzone and that is why playing objective actually makes people worse.

Nevermind there is an actual reward behind ranked and if you throw someones 1500 game they won't be happy. While winning a warzone... gives nothing? There is no reason to win a warzone, give me one and I'll still damage farm because that is how to win, but I don't want to get into that.

You miss the point or avoid it intentionally... 
I would not ruin a ranked match for anyone, although many do... and you complain about them vehemently... yet have no issue doing the same to others in their chosen content.  Explain that logically, what makes one bad, and the other not?  The fact that one has a different set of rewards doesnt explain that. 

[ZUHFB]

11 hours ago, Floplag said:

You miss the point or avoid it intentionally... 
I would not ruin a ranked match for anyone, although many do... and you complain about them vehemently... yet have no issue doing the same to others in their chosen content.  Explain that logically, what makes one bad, and the other not?  The fact that one has a different set of rewards doesnt explain that. 

I typed a text explaining it, but I figured I'll use the arguments of people do ruin ranked games.

You don't pay my sub I can do what I want. Flame me in regs, please, it adds to my fun. Kinda like seeing a coach potatoe screaming at football players earning 15x his salary and they are in better shape, I do find it more interesting and funny than the game itself, same goes for regs.

[Floplag]

11 hours ago, ZUHFB said:

I typed a text explaining it, but I figured I'll use the arguments of people do ruin ranked games.

You don't pay my sub I can do what I want. Flame me in regs, please, it adds to my fun. Kinda like seeing a coach potatoe screaming at football players earning 15x his salary and they are in better shape, I do find it more interesting and funny than the game itself, same goes for regs.

So you dont care if you ruin others, but if they do for you its an issue.  Got it.  
I hope you meet every thrower in the game. 
Peace

[ZUHFB]

There was a very long discussion about if farming damage is equal to playing objective, it probably is better than playing objective but I'm pretty sure you read that too so i don't really see the need to bring that back to life.

[Floplag]

1 hour ago, ZUHFB said:

There was a very long discussion about if farming damage is equal to playing objective, it probably is better than playing objective but I'm pretty sure you read that too so i don't really see the need to bring that back to life.

I have read many such posts, and they are all rationalization, not reality. 
There is no damage winning condition in regs / objective based maps, none, so the argument fails. 
Dont get me wrong, damage done in the furthering of those objectives, 100% valid, but when they involves being miles from any objectives or not watching doors etc... no, come on man your smarter than that. 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Floplag

[-Garmonbozia]

On 10/18/2022 at 6:54 PM, Floplag said:

Heres the problem with this... if i went into ranked and didnt play to win, would you say the same?  I paid my money same as you so... shouldn that apply?
IF they are that good, shouldnt they be able to do both?

There's no choice of playstyle in ranked as there are no objectives which renders your hypothetical question irrelevant. But play how you want.

[Shekshas]

5 hours ago, -Garmonbozia said:

There's no choice of playstyle in ranked as there are no objectives which renders your hypothetical question irrelevant. But play how you want.

This quote gave me an aneurysm, but is  examplary in highlighting the problems the game's pvp community has had for years and unironically got us to the point that made BW remove ranked as a whole. It highlights perfectly that forum warriors and regstars have absolutey no idea what ranked seems to be about on a most fundamental level.

 

How in the mother of everything that is unholy can you say that ranked has "No choice of playsytle" ????

If i had to guess, a total lack of experience and or interest whatsoever.

What makes competitive PvP in Tor so wonderful is that its an art, your goal is to beat the enemy team while exercising pressure in ideally perfectly set up coordinated attacks, while denying the enemy team the same kill oportunities by supporting your teammembers and helping them out. 

 

To reach that goal you need to make choices in a timeframe measured in Global Cooldowns GCD's.

What players call skill is how effectively you're at maximizing the amount of GCD'S to your advantage as to get the desired outcome namly landing a kill which gets you closer to winning the game. 

maximizing the amount of GCD's to your and your teams advantage is called effective micromanagement. 

Effective micromanagement is decided by:
 

Game knowledge 

good awarness of your surroundings 

Good positioning

Being aware of CC 

Being aware of trinkets

Effective Dcd/OCD (defensive CD / Offensive CD ) trades

how fast you're at analyzing and effectively implement these choices (uptime).

In no particular order ( feel free to add stuff if i forgot something)

 

These are called "degrees of freedom", which are decided by how good you're at making "CHOICES".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Shekshas

[Nee-Elder]

4 hours ago, Shekshas said:

These are called "degrees of freedom", which are decided by how good you're at making "CHOICES".

i think what you're trying to say is  that Ranked (at the highest serious level) is about making very subtle split-second micro-decisions ?

But , and i could be wrong, i don't think the  -Garmonbozia  person was referring to that type of "choice" .

4 hours ago, Shekshas said:

How in the mother of everything that is unholy can you say that ranked has "No choice of playsytle" ???

What i think they meant (and again, i could  be wrong)  is sort of what i was asking in this other thread ,  about how  at least to many players it  seems  like there's only:

• ONE  "viable"  combat spec/style
• ONE  preset "perfect"  rotation to use
• ONE  equippable tactical that isn't  "useless"
• ONE  combo of 4 players that has a "chance"
• ONE  strategy within each Arena that's actually "smart"

Therefore  it just doesn't  feel  like very much "freedom" to players like me (who actually enjoy the competition, even if we don't obsess about the leaderboard ) .

[Floplag]

11 hours ago, -Garmonbozia said:

There's no choice of playstyle in ranked as there are no objectives which renders your hypothetical question irrelevant. But play how you want.

The "style" has nothing to do with it.  Deathmatch, capture the flag, control points... they all have certain winning conditions, things you must do to win the match. 
This is so simple, you play to win, whatever that means, or you dont.
If someone does that in ranked, people lose their minds.. but the same people that do so are fine with it in regs and doing it to other people. 
 

[Shekshas]

53 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i think what you're trying to say is  that Ranked (at the highest serious level) is about making very subtle split-second micro-decisions ?

Correct ! the very important takeaway is that everybody can get there and its only a matter of practice.

Success is repetition. But you got to put in the work & time

period.

 

54 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

What i think they meant (and again, i could  be wrong)  is sort of what i was asking in this other thread ,  about how  at least to many players it  seems  like there's only:

• ONE  "viable"  combat spec/style
• ONE  preset "perfect"  rotation to use
• ONE  equippable tactical that isn't  "useless"
• ONE  combo of 4 players that has a "chance"
• ONE  strategy within each Arena that's actually "smart"

Therefore  it just doesn't  feel  like very much "freedom" to players like me (who actually enjoy the competition, even if we don't obsess about the leaderboard ) .

Thank you for bringing this up because it seems indeed that we've been talking about two different aspects of PvP and in the brother sense about PvP in MMORPG's in general.
What i was reffering too is the behaviour a player needs to get accustomed too   in order to be successful in a Deathmatch environment.

 

The aspect you're reffering too are the tools the game as an environment puts at your disposal that allow you to perform in such a way that the probability of winning a deathmatch is not decided by other, outside, factors than your personal performance itself .

E.G Meta / gear vs Skill / general player behaviour. 

Important takeaway and a recurring topic that likes to be brought up in Forum discussions, one is dependant of the other.

It's A natural consequence of the type of game we're playing (MMORPG), as such grinding and preparing is and should be the only way to partake in the highest form of competitive content (Ranked PVP / NiM Operations ). 

As such players who outright refuse to do so are chastised, and rightfully so the moment they set foot into solo ranked .

What people on forums make you want to believe more often than not is that everybody but the player in question is toxic and rated players gatekeep solo ranked.

What people that are new are surprised about is the lack of respect ranked players seem to have, why not flip the coin on its head ?

How is it respectful to join a gamemode underprepared when its 100% avoidable ?

You get to perform optimally (player performance) if the character you're playing with is optimally prepared ( Gear/Datacrons/tactical/Class Buffs).

 

To get to your actual point, yes META and FOTM Classes are real and as such picking a fotm class over an underperforming class is going to give you an easier time achieving whatever goal you set for yourself. 

An important distinction has to be made, no matter the class if put into the right hands will perform better than any FOTM Class in the wrong hands.

As obvious as it sounds it goes to show that at the end of the day what matters is too pick what you enjoy playing the way you want to play it.

Is there an optimal way to play and behave at any given moment, obviously but if i've learned anything over the years in my time as a ranked player is that individual creative imput is more important than Class Balance could ever be.

 

 

 

 

[-Garmonbozia]

10 hours ago, Floplag said:

The "style" has nothing to do with it.  Deathmatch, capture the flag, control points... they all have certain winning conditions, things you must do to win the match. 
This is so simple, you play to win, whatever that means, or you dont.
If someone does that in ranked, people lose their minds.. but the same people that do so are fine with it in regs and doing it to other people. 
 

lol. Sounds like you take your regs pretty seriously. Regardless, for others, style and options do affect choice. For people who are geared, which takes most 1-2 weeks one time, there's absolutely no benefit to 'winning' regs. For people who aren't-- and let's face it, we've all been there, so what if it takes a little longer to get a handful of weeklies? 

[-Garmonbozia]

17 hours ago, Shekshas said:

This quote gave me an aneurysm, but is  examplary in highlighting the problems the game's pvp community has had for years and unironically got us to the point that made BW remove ranked as a whole. It highlights perfectly that forum warriors and regstars have absolutey no idea what ranked seems to be about on a most fundamental level.

 

How in the mother of everything that is unholy can you say that ranked has "No choice of playsytle" ????

If i had to guess, a total lack of experience and or interest whatsoever.

What makes competitive PvP in Tor so wonderful is that its an art, your goal is to beat the enemy team while exercising pressure in ideally perfectly set up coordinated attacks, while denying the enemy team the same kill oportunities by supporting your teammembers and helping them out. 

 

To reach that goal you need to make choices in a timeframe measured in Global Cooldowns GCD's.

What players call skill is how effectively you're at maximizing the amount of GCD'S to your advantage as to get the desired outcome namly landing a kill which gets you closer to winning the game. 

maximizing the amount of GCD's to your and your teams advantage is called effective micromanagement. 

Effective micromanagement is decided by:
 

Game knowledge 

good awarness of your surroundings 

Good positioning

Being aware of CC 

Being aware of trinkets

Effective Dcd/OCD (defensive CD / Offensive CD ) trades

how fast you're at analyzing and effectively implement these choices (uptime).

In no particular order ( feel free to add stuff if i forgot something)

 

These are called "degrees of freedom", which are decided by how good you're at making "CHOICES".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you should probably re-read the comment I was responding to, as no one was discussing class/spec playstyles or strategies to take down a team in ranked. He was complaining about people not doing objectives, basically, in regs.

[Shekshas]

9 hours ago, -Garmonbozia said:

I think you should probably re-read the comment I was responding to, as no one was discussing class/spec playstyles or strategies to take down a team in ranked. He was complaining about people not doing objectives, basically, in regs.

Fair enough, thank you for clearing that up ❤️