What does the ideal endgame gearing system look like?

[Anysao]

7.0 came around and gearing was once more reworked. And, once more, it was critiqued heavily by the community.

Two years prior, 6.0 came around and gearing was also reworked- and critiqued heavily.

When 5.10 was released, a new gearing system was introduced and heavily critiqued…

And so on and so forth.

 

This seemingly endless phenomenon has got me wondering: what is, in the community’s opinion, the ideal gearing system? Maybe we can provide helpful feedback to prepare for the next gearing overhaul.

 

This is my own ideal gearing system, but I do admit I know relatively little about the balancing involved: what 6.0 got right was offering just a single gearing track, up to 306. I also thought the “horizontal progression,” focusing on earning Tacticals and Set Bonuses was a solid system. It was fast gearing with some solid goals to reach for after hitting the highest rating.

But there were also simply too many tiers of gear leading to 306. 7.0 gearing did that better: instead of 17 tiers of gear, we have about 6. Furthermore, Amplifiers were another degree of horizontal progression that wasn’t really worth keeping, so it’s for the best that went away.

I think that’s the gear system I’d like to see in the future: 6.0’s horizontal progression with just one gearing track, but 7.0’s fewer gear tiers.

 

 

I welcome discussion, let’s figure out what would work best.

[AwesomeTacoCat]

When 8.0 comes out in 2027 I’d like to see something more like 6.0. Gearing in 7.0 took too long and was absolutely tedious. Doing 8+ EV HMs per week and endless nefra runs is really not that fun. Sure, the 6.0 grind of MM Hammer Station on repeat wasn’t fun either, but at least it was super quick compared to 7.0. The only problem with 6.0 was the comical number of gear tiers and mass accumulation of gear to disassemble. But that was more of a slight annoyance than a real problem. Keeping the tier system simple like 7.0 but having the speed of 6.0 would be my ideal system.

 

With that said, game has way bigger problems than gearing right now (lack of class balance, operations not being properly scaled, etc) so I’d love those to be addressed first…

[Darev]

I want to see one currency (dropped via in game content as loot that goes right to your currency tab) to exchange at vendors on fleet for all level of gear.

That's about as simplistic as you can get.

The more difficult the content, the more of the currency you get.

The higher level gear you want to purchase, the more expensive it gets.

 

There should also be craftable equivalents. The top end being 1 tier down from the BIS level.

 

The vendors should have empty shells, and mods.

NO RNG on which version of the mod you get. You see it on the vendor, that's what you get. No guesswork or praying to the RNG gods.

 

It should also require the existing item as part of the purchase price.

You want a mod with a rating of 360, from a vendor, it costs x amount of the currency and the version of the mod with a rating of 358.

 

Only the "base" level gear doesn't have the previous version requirement.

[Damask_Rose]

I want to see one currency (dropped via in game content as loot that goes right to your currency tab) to exchange at vendors on fleet for all level of gear.

That's about as simplistic as you can get.

The more difficult the content, the more of the currency you get.

The higher level gear you want to purchase, the more expensive it gets.

 

There should also be craftable equivalents. The top end being 1 tier down from the BIS level.

 

The vendors should have empty shells, and mods.

NO RNG on which version of the mod you get. You see it on the vendor, that's what you get. No guesswork or praying to the RNG gods.

 

It should also require the existing item as part of the purchase price.

You want a mod with a rating of 360, from a vendor, it costs x amount of the currency and the version of the mod with a rating of 358.

 

Only the "base" level gear doesn't have the previous version requirement.

 

 

This works for me.

 

I liked and miss the non-combat amplifiers. It made looting more interesting, which is something 7.0 gearing severely lacks. Looting is just plain boring now! Too bad they didn't stick with Ossus looting where you could get other gear sets for cosmetics, and decorations. Toss in some rare mounts and pets and I call that perfect!

[ThanderSnB]

I would simplify the gearing system significantly, rebalance Tech Fragment rewards and costs, and speed up gearing alts.

 

1. Simplify Gearing System

 

Remove all gearing currencies except Tech Fragments and credits. Keep gear qualities but simplify to just one type of each. Make all gear qualities upgradeable to 330 (max) item level. Simplify the names so it's easy to understand. Names below are just for illustration. If they did this, they would probably need 4 new names to avoid confusion. Naming Convention here is the first word (Noble) indicates the quality and the second word (Decurion) indicates the expansion.

• Green - Noble Decurion
  
• Blue - Elite Decurion
  
• Purple - Supreme Decurion
  
• Gold - Master Decurion
  

 

2. Rebalance Tech Fragment rewards and costs to upgrade gear.

 

TF = Tech Fragments below

 

Costs to Upgrade Gear

• Legendary Implants - 6,000 TF to buy base item, then...
  
• Upgrade Item Level (including Legendary Implants) - Increase item level by +2 on an item. Requirements: An item at item level 318 or higher. Cost: 1,000 TF and 100,000 credits per +2 upgrade (Total 6,000 TF for one item 318 to 330).
  
• Upgrade Quality - Upgrade the quality of an item to the next highest (e.g. Green -> Blue). Requirements: An item at max item level 330. Cost: 2,000 TF and 200,000 credits per increased quality (Green, Blue, Purple, Gold).
  
• Switching Tertiary Stats - Change a tertiary stat on an item to another one (e.g. Critical -> Accuracy). Requirements: An item at item level 318 or higher. Cost: 500-5,000 TF (based on item quality)
  
  • Green - 500 TF and 50,000 credits
    
  • Blue - 1,000 TF and 100,000 credits
    
  • Purple - 2,500 TF and 250,000 credits
    
  • Gold - 5,000 TF and 500,000 credits
    

 

Tech Fragment Rewards

Break all endgame activities into four categories (Solo, Easy, Medium, and Hard) and reward accordingly. These labels wouldn't be in the game, just here for the sake of understanding.

 

• Solo - Gear Quality: Green for all of these
  
  • Heroics - 120 TF each. Change Heroic weeklies back to dailies and make them available every day. Daily Heroics: 120 TF per planet (but no gear crates)
    
  • Story Flashpoints - 200 TF total per run. Add 1 Weekly for 200 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    
  • Story Chapters - 200 TF. Add 1 Weekly for 200 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    
  • Veteran Chapters - 300 TF. Add 1 Weekly for 300 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    
  • Master Chapters - 400 TF. Add 1 Weekly for 400 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    

  [*]Easy - Veteran Flashpoints, Unranked Warzones, Galactic Starfighter, Story Operations and Story Uprisings. Gear Quality: Blue. Base Reward: 600 TF per run. 3 Weeklies: 600 TF and 1 Blue gear upgrade each. Unranked Warzones and GSF give a gear crate that contains 3-5 random Blue items to compensate for not having boss drops.

  [*]Medium - Master Flashpoints, Solo Ranked Warzones, Veteran Operations, Veteran Uprisings. Gear Quality: Purple. Base Reward: 2,000 TF per run. 3 Weeklies: 2,000 TF each and 1 Purple gear upgrade each. Solo Ranked Warzones give a gear crate that contains 3-5 random Purple items to compensate for not having boss drops.

  [*]Hard - Master Operations, Master Uprisings, Group Ranked Warzones. Gear Quality: Gold. Base Reward: 6,000 TF per run. 3 Weeklies: 6,000 TF and 1 Gold gear upgrade each. Group Ranked Warzones give a gear crate that contains 3-5 random Gold items to compensate for not having boss drops.

  [*]Deconstructing Gear

  • Green quality - 10 TF each Green item deconstructed
    
  • Blue quality - 25 TF each
    
  • Purple quality - 50 TF each
    
  • Gold quality - 100 TF each
    

 

So not counting Weeklies, it takes 1 run of Hard content to upgrade an item to 330, 3 runs of Medium content to upgrade an item to 330, 10 runs of Easy content to upgrade an item to 330, and 50 heroics to upgrade an item to 330 (other Solo activities vary).

 

3. Speed Up Gearing Alts

 

To do this add three Global Perks to the Legacy system.

• Improved Decurion Gearing I - Requirements: One character in the legacy with max item level 330. Cost: 10,000,000 credits. Effect: Increase Tech Fragment rewards and cap by 50% (1.5x rewards multiplier, New Cap: 16,500).
  
• Improved Decurion Gearing II - Requirements: Two characters in the legacy with max item level 330. Cost: 15,000,000 credits. Effect: Increase Tech fragment rewards and cap by 100% (2x rewards multiplier, New Cap: 22,000).
  
• Improved Decurion Gearing III - Requirements: Three characters in the legacy with max item level 330. Cost: 25,000,000 credits. Effect: Increase Tech Fragment rewards and cap by 200% (4x rewards multiplier, New Cap: 44,000).
  

 

With this balancing and the legacy unlocks, it would take the average player about 4 weeks to gear their first character, 3 weeks to gear their second character, 2 weeks to gear their third character, and 1 week to gear each remaining alt. Things could be balanced to be slower or faster. I think it could be 8 weeks for the first character and still be fine (reduced to 6, 4, and 2 weeks with the global perks).

 

I thought about adding a fourth unlock to buy gear solely with credits. While this would speed things up for alt gearing, it would allow players to pay real money for in-game power. Even though it would only be for alts, it would hurt the game's reputation within the game industry even more than it already is. Also, many existing players would be disgusted by it.

Edited June 12, 2022 by ThanderSnB

[HypSpec]

I would simplify the gearing system significantly, rebalance Tech Fragment rewards and costs, and speed up gearing alts.

 

1. Simplify Gearing System

 

Remove all gearing currencies except Tech Fragments and credits. Keep gear qualities but simplify to just one type of each. Make all gear qualities upgradeable to 330 (max) item level. Simplify the names so it's easy to understand. Names below are just for illustration. If they did this, they would probably need 4 new names to avoid confusion. Naming Convention here is the first word (Noble) indicates the quality and the second word (Decurion) indicates the expansion.

• Green - Noble Decurion
  
• Blue - Elite Decurion
  
• Purple - Supreme Decurion
  
• Gold - Master Decurion
  

 

2. Rebalance Tech Fragment rewards and costs to upgrade gear.

 

TF = Tech Fragments below

 

Costs to Upgrade Gear

• Legendary Implants - 6,000 TF to buy base item, then...
  
• Upgrade Item Level (including Legendary Implants) - Increase item level by +2 on an item. Requirements: An item at item level 318 or higher. Cost: 1,000 TF and 100,000 credits per +2 upgrade (Total 6,000 TF for one item 318 to 330).
  
• Upgrade Quality - Upgrade the quality of an item to the next highest (e.g. Green -> Blue). Requirements: An item at max item level 330. Cost: 2,000 TF and 200,000 credits per increased quality (Green, Blue, Purple, Gold).
  
• Switching Tertiary Stats - Change a tertiary stat on an item to another one (e.g. Critical -> Accuracy). Requirements: An item at item level 318 or higher. Cost: 500-5,000 TF (based on item quality)
  
  • Green - 500 TF and 50,000 credits
    
  • Blue - 1,000 TF and 100,000 credits
    
  • Purple - 2,500 TF and 250,000 credits
    
  • Gold - 5,000 TF and 500,000 credits
    

 

Tech Fragment Rewards

Break all endgame activities into four categories (Solo, Easy, Medium, and Hard) and reward accordingly. These labels wouldn't be in the game, just here for the sake of understanding.

 

• Solo - Gear Quality: Green for all of these
  
  • Heroics - 120 TF each. Change Heroic weeklies back to dailies and make them available every day. Daily Heroics: 120 TF per planet (but no gear crates)
    
  • Story Flashpoints - 200 TF total per run. Add 1 Weekly for 200 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    
  • Story Chapters - 200 TF. Add 1 Weekly for 200 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    
  • Veteran Chapters - 300 TF. Add 1 Weekly for 300 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    
  • Master Chapters - 400 TF. Add 1 Weekly for 400 TF and 1 Green gear upgrade.
    

  [*]Easy - Veteran Flashpoints, Unranked Warzones, Galactic Starfighter, Story Operations and Story Uprisings. Gear Quality: Blue. Base Reward: 600 TF per run. 3 Weeklies: 600 TF and 1 Blue gear upgrade each. Unranked Warzones and GSF give a gear crate that contains 3-5 random Blue items to compensate for not having boss drops.

  [*]Medium - Master Flashpoints, Solo Ranked Warzones, Veteran Operations, Veteran Uprisings. Gear Quality: Purple. Base Reward: 2,000 TF per run. 3 Weeklies: 2,000 TF each and 1 Purple gear upgrade each. Solo Ranked Warzones give a gear crate that contains 3-5 random Purple items to compensate for not having boss drops.

  [*]Hard - Master Operations, Master Uprisings, Group Ranked Warzones. Gear Quality: Gold. Base Reward: 6,000 TF per run. 3 Weeklies: 6,000 TF and 1 Gold gear upgrade each. Group Ranked Warzones give a gear crate that contains 3-5 random Gold items to compensate for not having boss drops.

  [*]Deconstructing Gear

  • Green quality - 10 TF each Green item deconstructed
    
  • Blue quality - 25 TF each
    
  • Purple quality - 50 TF each
    
  • Gold quality - 100 TF each
    

 

So not counting Weeklies, it takes 1 run of Hard content to upgrade an item to 330, 3 runs of Medium content to upgrade an item to 330, 10 runs of Easy content to upgrade an item to 330, and 50 heroics to upgrade an item to 330 (other Solo activities vary).

 

3. Speed Up Gearing Alts

 

To do this add three Global Perks to the Legacy system.

• Improved Decurion Gearing I - Requirements: One character in the legacy with max item level 330. Cost: 10,000,000 credits. Effect: Increase Tech Fragment rewards and cap by 50% (1.5x rewards multiplier, New Cap: 16,500).
  
• Improved Decurion Gearing II - Requirements: Two characters in the legacy with max item level 330. Cost: 15,000,000 credits. Effect: Increase Tech fragment rewards and cap by 100% (2x rewards multiplier, New Cap: 22,000).
  
• Improved Decurion Gearing III - Requirements: Three characters in the legacy with max item level 330. Cost: 25,000,000 credits. Effect: Increase Tech Fragment rewards and cap by 200% (4x rewards multiplier, New Cap: 44,000).
  

 

With this balancing and the legacy unlocks, it would take the average player about 4 weeks to gear their first character, 3 weeks to gear their second character, 2 weeks to gear their third character, and 1 week to gear each remaining alt. Things could be balanced to be slower or faster. I think it could be 8 weeks for the first character and still be fine (reduced to 6, 4, and 2 weeks with the global perks).

 

I thought about adding a fourth unlock to buy gear solely with credits. While this would speed things up for alt gearing, it would allow players to pay real money for in-game power. Even though it would only be for alts, it would hurt the game's reputation within the game industry even more than it already is. Also, many existing players would be disgusted by it.

 

While I need to think through it some more, my first sense is that I could get behind this. It greatly simplifies the overall process and puts more behind effort = gearing speed and level vs. being tied to the grade of content. There will be the eternal question of whether top tiers should be locked behind more difficult content, but if you are open to striking a balance between 6.0 and 7.0, this is a well thought-out approach. It allows players to focus on content they enjoy, minimizes RNG and provides better control over stat optimization.

[xordevoreaux]

What does the ideal endgame gearing system look like?

 

That depends.

 

Roleplayer: I don't care.

Altaholic: Something that I can complete in a couple of sittings in front of the computer.

Casual: Just give me a tier that I can grind to so I feel like I accomplished something without it feeling like a job.

Moderate ops player: Nothing too grindy, it's not like I'm going for uberness, but I know I must put my time in.

Serious ops player: I'll put up with some of the grind, but not for insane amounts of time.

PvP Uber Archlord: GIVE ME THE GRIND! I MUST BE UBER! I NEED 2 MORE POINTS IN ACCURACY NOW!

Edited June 13, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[TmoneyTime]

4.0 Gearing Enough said

 

Was the best Gering system to date.

 

2.0 Gearing and all its RNG is better then what we have now though.

 

 

The biggest problem with SWTOR Development is they constantly change things to change things. For instance 7.0 we didn't need new levels or gear or UI or Combat Styles. We needed Content, Story, OPS, PVP, Events, ETC.

Everyone was generally happy with the game balance in 6.0. We could have used some minor tweaks, but leaving the game alone and adding content would have been better, far better.

 

Rewards don't have to be gear, When I was NIM raiding we cared more about color crystals and mounts then gear.

Make cool rewards for PVP, OPS, Achievement Rewards, ETC.

I dont know why were are so, stuck in 2000 where we have to have new gear, ability changes, etc.

 

I swear any MMO could have such a huge player base if they just used common sense. Considering how little that goes around

Edited June 13, 2022 by TmoneyTime

[TmoneyTime]

That depends.

PvP Uber Archlord: GIVE ME THE GRIND! I MUST BE UBER! I NEED 2 MORE POINTS IN ACCURACY NOW!

 

PVPERS dont care about gear at all. We just want it balanced across the board. (By that I don't mean same stats for same classes, that doesn't work due to how the specs are designed.)

 

PVP Gear can be free but only work in PVP zones fine with us.

[Anysao]

Well what with another gearing rework, I think this topic should receive some new attention.

[Ardrossan]

No gear at endgame. Maybe no gear period. Reformat crafting professions to craft only non-combat items like dyes, mounts, decorations, armor shells, weapon shells, etc. Gear is a habit that we've been stuck into thinking is important.

 

One of the biggest changes in this game was I think 4.0 when they removed gear from companions. Had you suggested on the forum before then that comps don't need gear, they would have laughed at you. They would have --and did-- have all kinds of suggestions for improving the companion gear grind slightly, but not removing it altogether. That was seen as dumbing the game down among the hardcore elites. I have never seen anyone complain about it since they got rid of it, though I'm sure there's probably a diehard minority somewhere out there.

 

The thread indicates the same problem BW has certainly noticed: everyone has a different idea what "good gearing" looks like, and the ideas, in general, are not significantly better than BW just doing it on their own. They're just slight variations on what's already been done. Except removing gear from the endgame equation completely.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ardrossan