Armor Set Sale Ended Early

[Wulfengrim]

We were told that the Armor Set Sale would run through December 27.

 

It is December 27, 12:45 EST, and the sale is over. Now I'm sitting on a pile of Cartel Coins I was going to spend during the sale & you've just devalued my entire savings.

[Phazonfreak]

It didn't end early, you were mistaken as far as the time is concerned. There was no mentioning of it running all through December 27th. We were told:

Are any anniversary sales happening?

 

Yes! Here's the breakdown:

 

From December 20, 2021 to January 3, 2022

• Seasonal items will be available
  
• 75% off all Collection Unlocks
  

From December 20, 2021 to December 27, 2021

• 50% off all Armor Sets
  
• 50% off Character Slots
  

From December 27, 2021 to January 3, 2022

• 50% off all Mounts and Stronghold Decorations
  

 

Meaning that the Character Slots and Armor sale ended today at the daily reset at 7:00 EST to change over to the Mounts and Stronghold Decorations sale. The end date of an event or sale always means the time of the daily reset and not some time later that day.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Wulfengrim]

According to the information you posted,

 

From December 20, 2021 to December 27, 2021

50% off all Armor Sets"

 

So, yes, that means the sale was announced to run through December 27, 2021. Nowhere in the civilized world does December 27 end at 0700.

 

Was I deceived intentionally? Or through sheer incompetence?

 

Either way, I find the lack of response from the Admins to be insulting.

[ForbiddenPlaces]

Don't feel badly. I was out of town away from a computer for a while and planned to make some purchases today. Regrettably, I fell for the same mind trick. Having re-read the announcement, the dates are pretty clear- I was just stuck in this "Everything ends at roll-over" mindset. Too bad the sale didn't last just a little longer. Hope you catch the next one, mate.

[ceryxp]

It is generally understood in this game that things start and end with the daily reset at 12:00 UTC. The armour sale ended at 12:00 UTC and the mount and decoration sale began at 12:00 UTC. Although, character slots are still discounted 50%.

 

Jackie's post states that the Collections unlock sale runs from 20 December to 3 January. Without a doubt the Collections unlock sale will end at 12:00 UTC on 3 January. Double XP runs to 4 January. It will shut off at 12:00 UTC on 4 January. Likewise, Life Day will end at 12:00 UTC on 11 January.

 

In this game, with few exceptions, things start and end at 12:00 UTC. One main exception is the daily flash sale, which runs one hour later (13:00 UTC) between the first Sunday in November and the second Sunday in March as that is standard time in the States. During Daylight Saving Time (March to November) the flash sale reset coincides with the daily reset.

[Phazonfreak]

So, yes, that means the sale was announced to run through December 27, 2021. Nowhere in the civilized world does December 27 end at 0700.

 

Was I deceived intentionally? Or through sheer incompetence?

 

Either way, I find the lack of response from the Admins to be insulting.

 

In the world of this game, which is played by different people in different time zones around the globe, a day does indeed end at 7:00AM EST (or 8:00AM EST depending on Daylight Saving) as the fixed time for the daily reset. You weren't deceived, you were simply mistaken and thus will not get a response from the devs. Take it as a learning experience or not.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[ShadowyKai]

Whenever an MMORPG says that something is going to last until a certain date, always assume that they mean "up to BUT NOT INCLUDING that date."

 

Even if the company gives you a specific time of day that the event is going to end, always assume it will end early (because it very often will, and without any warning), and get everything done ahead of the scheduled ending time.

 

I have had to learn and re-learn that more times than I care to think about through all of the online RPGs I've played.

 

It is frankly stupid, in my opinion. For most people, it is completely counterintuitive to think that "December 20 to December 27" means up to but not including December 27. But they're the ones who set the rules, so that's what we have to play by, whether we think it makes sense or not.

[SteveTheCynic]

In the world of this game, which is played by different people in different time zones around the globe, a day does indeed end at 7:00AM EST (or 8:00AM EST depending on Daylight Saving)

It's at a fixed time for sure, but that time is defined as noon GMT (more correctly, I suspect, UTC), which is at the times you cited.

 

And having it at noon GMT makes a *lot* more sense than 7am in some rebel colony.

[SteveTheCynic]

It is frankly stupid, in my opinion. For most people, it is completely counterintuitive to think that "December 20 to December 27" means up to but not including December 27. But they're the ones who set the rules, so that's what we have to play by, whether we think it makes sense or not.

But it includes *part*of* December 27, unless the player is in a really exotic timezone. It might not be a useful part, if the player is in the Americas, but ...

[Phazonfreak]

It is frankly stupid, in my opinion. For most people, it is completely counterintuitive to think that "December 20 to December 27" means up to but not including December 27. But they're the ones who set the rules, so that's what we have to play by, whether we think it makes sense or not.

 

The op claimed that the devs ended the event early either to deceive him or due to incompetence. This is a severe case of solipsism and speaks more to the incompetence of the op rather than the devs. They did nothing wrong or suddenly changed something along the way, the op simply didn't take into account that there are different time zones on this planet and not everyone and everything follows his personal idea of what the start and end time of the "civilized world" is supposed to be.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Wulfengrim]

Don't feel badly. I was out of town away from a computer for a while and planned to make some purchases today. Regrettably, I fell for the same mind trick. Having re-read the announcement, the dates are pretty clear- I was just stuck in this "Everything ends at roll-over" mindset. Too bad the sale didn't last just a little longer. Hope you catch the next one, mate.

 

That was the other thing I thought was dumb: Why have a week-long sale that runs from Monday through Sunday when the standard game week for SWTOR is from Tuesday through Monday? Couldn't they see that was going to cause confusion? How does this confusion benefit anyone?

 

What purpose does this scheduling serve?

[Wulfengrim]

It is frankly stupid, in my opinion. For most people, it is completely counterintuitive to think that "December 20 to December 27" means up to but not including December 27.

 

Agreed.

 

And it serves no purpose. If the sale or event runs into the morning hours of the next day (as with some other MMOs), no one is going to complain. But it the customers think the sale or event is going to run through Monday evening (since evening is when most casual players play) & discover too late that the it ended Monday morning, all you've done is to disappoint & confuse your customers.

 

The first rule of high-trust sales is "Underpromise & overdeliver." We are seeing the exact opposite of that wise policy.

[JattaGin]

I came online on 27.12. during the early afternoon with the intention to spend a couple of thousand cartel coins on armor sets. Unfortunately, the sale was already over. Instead, I spent zero cartel coins.

 

The question is, whom did this hurt more? Me, who didn't buy cartel coins or BW, who didn't sell cartel coins?

 

If I read a date without a specific time, I automatically assume it includes the whole day. If it doesn't, I expect the deadline to include the time. That's also how I handle my own deadlines at work. I always include the time. In BW's case, all they needed to add was "until daily reset".

[Wulfengrim]

I came online on 27.12. during the early afternoon with the intention to spend a couple of thousand cartel coins on armor sets. Unfortunately, the sale was already over. Instead, I spent zero cartel coins.

 

The question is, whom did this hurt more? Me, who didn't buy cartel coins or BW, who didn't sell cartel coins?

 

Exactly.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Wulfengrim
Duplicate

[Phazonfreak]

If I read a date without a specific time, I automatically assume it includes the whole day. If it doesn't, I expect the deadline to include the time. That's also how I handle my own deadlines at work. I always include the time. In BW's case, all they needed to add was "until daily reset".

 

So let me get this straight. According to your signature, you have been around since the Beta for this game 10 years ago and were subbed pretty much the entire time. Yet you still never learned during all those years that events and sales end at the daily reset time instead of your personal idea of when the day is supposed to end?

 

So to use your work analogy, you have been a loyal customer to a company that regularly invited you to their company brunches that always end at noon. The people responsible for the brunch don't even include the time anymore in the announcements, because it always ends at the same time. After 10 years of doing it this way you come too late to one of the brunches and the buffett is all but eaten. The next day you contact the person that organized this brunch and complain that the buffett was empty and you didn't know that the brunch wasn't supposed to run all through the evening. That person will probably tell you that company brunches always end at noon and that he/she is surprised that you didn't know that after partaking in them for the last 10 years.

 

Now I understand that it would be much better if BioWare always included the exact start and end times when they announce events and sales just to be sure and to avoid any confusion for new players. And I do know that they have the unfortunate ability to be very vague when it comes to communicating time frames, as seen by the murky end date for the PTS challenge as "early January". But I am genuinely shocked that they apparently have to do this for veterans as well who should know about the daily reset time by now.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Wulfengrim]

Now I understand that it would be much better if BioWare always included the exact start and end times when they announce events and sales just to be sure and to avoid any confusion for new players.

 

Thank you for this acknowledgement.

[Phazonfreak]

Thank you for this acknowledgement.

 

Sure thing. And I hope that you can acknowledge that the devs didn't deceive anyone and ended the sale early due to incompetence.

[Wulfengrim]

Sure thing. And I hope that you can acknowledge that the devs didn't deceive anyone and ended the sale early due to incompetence.

 

Of course. I can acknowledge that the Devs didn't intentionally deceive anyone and instead ended the sale early due to incompetence (in the form of poor communication).

[Wulfengrim]

It is generally understood in this game that things start and end with the daily reset at 12:00 UTC.

 

I notice that you used a passive construction: “It is generally understood…”

 

Good writers generally avoid passive constructions where possible because passive constructions tend to be vague regarding agency & responsibility.

 

So, in this case, a good editor would probably want you to say something like “The Devs & Admins make very clear on every occasion…”

 

But that’s not really true, so instead a good editor might settle for “As experienced players have learned through multiple misunderstandings & disappointments…”

 

Yes, that seems like a much clearer statement of the situation.

[Wulfengrim]

In the world of this game, which is played by different people in different time zones around the globe, a day does indeed end at 7:00AM EST (or 8:00AM EST depending on Daylight Saving) as the fixed time for the daily reset.

 

I have played other MMOs with players from around the globe. As an insomniac, I have teamed with & formed in-game friendships with players from Hawai'i & Australia, as well as servicemen in Guam.

 

In those games, as I recall, events that were scheduled to run "until 27 December" (for example) ran through 27 December & into the next morning's reset. I don't recall having this confusion in any other MMO, no matter how worldwide the player-base.

[ceryxp]

I notice that you used a passive construction: “It is generally understood…”

 

Good writers generally avoid passive constructions where possible because passive constructions tend to be vague regarding agency & responsibility.

 

So, in this case, a good editor would probably want you to say something like “The Devs & Admins make very clear on every occasion…”

 

But that’s not really true, so instead a good editor might settle for “As experienced players have learned through multiple misunderstandings & disappointments…”

 

Yes, that seems like a much clearer statement of the situation.

 

Okay, if you want to play the semantics game...

 

Pirate Incursion

December 14th - December 21st, 2021 (BEGINS AND ENDS AT 12:00PM GMT)

 

Life Day

December 14th, 2021 - January 11th, 2022 (BEGINS AND ENDS AT 12:00PM GMT)

 

Ten Year Anniversary

December 14th, 2021 - January, 2023 (BEGINS AND ENDS AT 12:00PM GMT)

 

Double Rewards Event

December 20th, 2021 - January 4th, 2022 (BEGINS AND ENDS AT 12:00PM GMT)

 

Bounty Contract Week

December 28th, 2021 - January 4th, 2022 (BEGINS AND ENDS AT 12:00PM GMT)

https://www.swtor.com/info/in-game-events

 

I retract my statement. It is not generally understood, it should be understood by anyone who has been playing this game for over a year that in almost all cases things (events, sales, etc.), with very few exceptions, start and end at 12:00 UTC. If you have not figured that out by now then you have not been paying attention.

[Wulfengrim]

It's at a fixed time for sure, but that time is defined as noon GMT (more correctly, I suspect, UTC), which is at the times you cited.

 

Ending a sale at noon makes about as much sense as ending brunch at 0945. Can you imagine if I walked into Macy's for their Labor Day sale only to find out the sale ended at noon?

 

And having it at noon GMT makes a *lot* more sense than 7am in some rebel colony.

 

The subtext here seems to be that you favor anything that screws over the Americans. Bias noted.

[Wulfengrim]

But it includes *part*of* December 27, unless the player is in a really exotic timezone.

It might not be a useful part, if the player is in the Americas, but ...

 

And what purpose does this practice serve?

 

From a customer-service perspective, how does it make sense to advertise a weeklong sale as "December 20 to December 27" when it only includes a small portion of December 27, ending long before most casual begin playing?

[Phazonfreak]

I have played other MMOs with players from around the globe. As an insomniac, I have teamed with & formed in-game friendships with players from Hawai'i & Australia, as well as servicemen in Guam.

 

In those games, as I recall, events that were scheduled to run "until 27 December" (for example) ran through 27 December & into the next morning's reset. I don't recall having this confusion in any other MMO, no matter how worldwide the player-base.

 

I don't recall having this confusion in any other MMO either, SWTOR included, because I always make sure to check the daily reset timer or ask the community beforehand so that I don't encounter the things you have experienced. Even if the developers behind the game are not considerate enough to post an exact end time.

 

The subtext here seems to be that you favor anything that screws over the Americans. Bias noted.

 

It is absolutely hilarious that you are now calling out the supposed bias of other posters when it was you who started this whole ethnocentric "civilized world" nonsense.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Phazonfreak

[Wulfengrim]

...the developers behind the game are not considerate enough to post an exact end time.

 

And that is the problem.