Stop comparing a game that just launched to a game thats been out for 7 years

[StarMagus]

SWTOR with all the WoW features at launch would mean this game could not have been released until 2015 or so. And by that time wow would have new features again. To add a feature in a game is a little bit more complex then just comming up with the idea. Gamecode needs to be writen, graphics created, databases designed and created, it all needs to be tested and way more. Strangely enough it takes Bioware more then 10minutes to create a LFG tool that is bug free, working cross realm, and is easy to understand, man they must suck! (SARCASM)

 

In the end i think SWTOR has a pretty damn solid launch with a good amount of features. It has multiple raids, battlegrounds, good amount of professions, solid storage and inventory system, less confusing stats system, more playstyle diversity per class, better stat customisation for gear and... no gah some people just cant see the whole picture.

 

There is more to making a game then just having cool ideas! Start to realize this.

 

When it comes to dev time and putting out new features and the like WoW is not the gold standard. Trion beats the pants off of Blizzard when it comes to adding new content. In 9months Rift has managed to copy and add more features then WoW had in 7 years. If Bioware would have taken 4 years to do what a much less funded company did in 9 months they should be ashamed of themselves.

Edited December 30, 2011 by StarMagus

[Skerry]

Ok. let's not compare it to WoW....lets compare it to a small indy company that made a MMO and released this year too.......

 

LFD....Rift has it.

RAIDs....Rift has them

PVP...Rift has actual world PVP with objectives.

UI customization....could drag my stuff all of the screen with Rift on day 1

 

Again, this is a small independant game developer who didnt have 100 million to develope a game or EA backing them....but they managed to do these things on day 1.

 

 

So you are right, it isnt fair to compare SWTOR to WOW....some would say it isnt fair to compare it to a small indy company that didnt have the fund or resources that Bioware did..and good thing too....cause BW would look amateurish.

 

LFD was added to Rift, it did not have it day one.

Raids - yes they have them, so does SWTOR.

PVP - Not all games put the same emphasis on PVP, PVP is not a staple, or a cornerstone of MMO's, it is a side game and one enjoyed by a much smaller population of people than the PVPers would like to think.

UI - Yes, RIFT UI Customization was there, SWTORs could have been but is not.

 

 

Give em time folks. No Single MMO was released feature rich and player perfect, NONE; and NONE ever will be.

[Lankybrit]

They're in the same genre being sold to mostly the same audience being sold at exactly the same time. As someone else said, TOR is competing with 7 year old WoW, not Vanilla WoW.

 

Let's just repeat this everyone. I don't know what the OP is on about. SWTOR is competing with current WoW. Hey my new Toyota Prius is way better than that 7 year old Honda. So what, it's competing with the current Honda.

 

Cheers.

[Ambrogino]

Blah blah blah...

Seriously..... The game is 10 days old (17 for some of us)

 

But its been in development for over 5 years and has spent $800 to do so. Which begs the question, what did you so with that investment?

 

Sure wow had 7 years to get it right, but wow built off what Trubine did with Asherons Call and Everquest at the time of launch, so they were perfecting technology already in place. Did the developers even go to any of the gaming conventions and think about the competition? Yes they did because they touted this game for years.

 

Personally, I'm amazed at the softball interviews the media is throwing at them for this game. Sure it will be polished over time but if this were any other product they'd stone to death with criticisms. But i guess its par for the course for EA. Look at the Madden franchise, hasn't updated their product for years and still gets fantastic reviews.

 

Basically its like buying a new mercedes and installing an 8-track player...

[Ghostfaced]

Seriously guys....Its ridiculous. Wow at launch doesnt even compare to SWTOR now... Give them some time....heres what most of you are crying about...

 

LFD tool...

It took wow until the end of Wrath to implement the LFD tool... Give Bioware some time

Personally i hope they NEVER add a LFD tool. It takes a lot away from the game. If you ask me they should add a feature that lets you look at people who are looking for groups and invite them but beyond that if you make it any easier it'll be bad.

 

endgame content...

last i checked i belive we have 3 raids? And while i didnt raid in vanilla wow im pretty sure it had 1....

Truth.

[ShaggyShow]

They're in the same genre being sold to mostly the same audience being sold at exactly the same time. As someone else said, TOR is competing with 7 year old WoW, not Vanilla WoW.

 

By that logic u will be playing wow for the next 50 years, because noway a new MMO can launch with the same amount of features. MMO's start with a base and grow from that. If one would try to develop a MMO with all the features of WoW today, the MMO would never be released cause the developer would be bankrupt pretty quick. At some point they will have to see some of the invested funds come back.

 

Enjoy Azeroth till the end of your MMO days.

[AirshipGirl]

Making excuses for Bioware to make up for SWTORS lack of features is not going to save or help this game. First impressions are everything. Your average gamer no longer has patience for games that are released incomplete. We've seen this countless times with many previous MMO's.

 

Bioware should have learned this from past releases to realize this. What I find incredibly amusing is that the honeymoon period for this game looks to be over and the game is not even 30 days old.

[Case_Wight]

Dude... cmon. WoW is 7 years old and TOR lacks its features..

 

Its like if a car designer took some features from a 7 year old car, then left out others. You'd be asking "what the hell, this 7 year old car has more features than this brand new one"

 

 

The car anaology again.

 

Is, was, and remains a foolish comparison.

 

First of all, cars != software.

 

Second, many of those WoW 'features' are addition by subtraction in SWTOR. I don't care for what WoW has become over the years, and I am quite pleased with SWTOR.

[AirshipGirl]

By that logic u will be playing wow for the next 50 years, because noway a new MMO can launch with the same amount of features. MMO's start with a base and grow from that. If one would try to develop a MMO with all the features of WoW today, the MMO would never be released cause the developer would be bankrupt pretty quick. At some point they will have to see some of the invested funds come back.

 

Enjoy Azeroth till the end of your MMO days.

 

Not true. All Bioware had to do was add a few other features that would alliviate some of hte griping we're seeing now. UI customization, better guild tools like banks, the ability to queue for your BG of choice instead of constantly getting Huttball - stupidest BG I have ever seen BTW). No you are wrong. They just needed to hit the main features...Buioware couldn't even do that!

[Ziegler]

PVP - Not all games put the same emphasis on PVP, PVP is not a staple, or a cornerstone of MMO's, it is a side game and one enjoyed by a much smaller population of people than the PVPers would like to think.

 

 

Give em time folks. No Single MMO was released feature rich and player perfect, NONE; and NONE ever will be.

 

I am thinking that if you look at the number of PVE and PVP servers... http://www.swtor.com/server-status

 

Your statement isnt exactly correct...

 

 

also....its...starWARS.....WARS....again just to be clear....WARS....it's not Starsmurfs or Star Kitty. ...it's StarWARS. Good guys vs bad guys.

[Case_Wight]

This argument is no longer valid. Bioware used WoW as their model to make their game. They said this countless times in numerous interviews. That means they had 7 years of of Blizzard refining their game to show Bioware makes a good MMO. There is no excuse for Bioware to have launched this game with so many missing "basic" features we find in many other MMO's, like custom UI's, guild banks, better character creation options, more responsive combat controls, random whether effects, night and day cycles, open worlds, and more than 100 people per shard! OMG it say there are 100 people in my shard and zone the Republic fleet and I see maybe 2 or 3 people at most. The whole station is basically dead except for the NPC's and they are all like cardboard cutouts, they do nothing and we cannot enteract with 80% of them...the cantinas are ghost towns.

 

Sorry, but Bioware screwed up...they didn't deliver an MMO, they gave us a co-op single player game.

 

 

And yet, BW has included individual instances, class storyline Qs, voice acting, a class system that isn't hopelessly unbalanced despite nearly a decade of effort to fix it, interesting companions, an improved crafting system.

 

And lightsabers.

 

If you don't like the game, don't let the out door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

 

SWTOR has many features that other games do not have.

[StarMagus]

Not true. All Bioware had to do was add a few other features that would alliviate some of hte griping we're seeing now. UI customization, better guild tools like banks, the ability to queue for your BG of choice instead of constantly getting Huttball - stupidest BG I have ever seen BTW). No you are wrong. They just needed to hit the main features...Buioware couldn't even do that!

 

Actually Huttball is a great idea in concept. If you are constantly getting it, it's because you rolled on a faction that outnumbers the other side in PvP. The choice isn't Huttball or something else.. but Huttball or waiting.. and waiting.. and waiting.

 

I have characters on both sides of my server.

 

My empire character? Always in Huttball.. agianst other empire characters.

 

My republic characters? I haven't gotten huttball once.

 

Hutball the battleground may be flawed, but the idea is a solid one.

[ShaggyShow]

When it comes to dev time and putting out new features and the like WoW is not the gold standard. Trion beats the pants off of Blizzard when it comes to adding new content. In 9months Rift has managed to copy and add more features then WoW had in 7 years. If Bioware would have taken 4 years to do what a much less funded company did in 9 months they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

I rather have the current way of story telling, voices, cutscenes at the start then a LFD tool or gmail system. I rather have the option to walk through the first dungeon in the game in different routes by makin different conversation choices then to always follow the same route. The game has had 1 bugfix patch and u expect it to be on the same level as wow? In many aspects this game beats WoW aswell.

[Wazooty]

By that logic u will be playing wow for the next 50 years, because noway a new MMO can launch with the same amount of features. MMO's start with a base and grow from that. If one would try to develop a MMO with all the features of WoW today, the MMO would never be released cause the developer would be bankrupt pretty quick. At some point they will have to see some of the invested funds come back.

 

Enjoy Azeroth till the end of your MMO days.

 

That logic is the truth, and your post is just silly.

 

SWTOR is competing with current day wow, not 7 year old wow.

 

It's that simple. That is an undeniable FACT.

[mbernert]

I want to start off by saying that I enjoy playing this game. But this game, and any others, are competing directly with others of their genre, right NOW.

 

Think about it. People compare games because they are trying to decide which one to play. Great, this game is better than wow 7 years ago? But this isn't 7 years ago now is it.

 

Come on guys, think before you post.

[Wazooty]

And yet, BW has included individual instances, class storyline Qs, voice acting, a class system that isn't hopelessly unbalanced despite nearly a decade of effort to fix it, interesting companions, an improved crafting system.

 

And lightsabers.

 

If you don't like the game, don't let the out door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

 

SWTOR has many features that other games do not have.

 

All they have added is a storyline with voice acting.

 

That alone wont sustain a game.

 

They may as well have made it single player if that's the case.

[Lankybrit]

The car anaology again.

 

Is, was, and remains a foolish comparison.

 

First of all, cars != software.

 

Second, many of those WoW 'features' are addition by subtraction in SWTOR. I don't care for what WoW has become over the years, and I am quite pleased with SWTOR.

 

Why is a car analogy bad? Car companies come out with models, and upgrade those models over the years.

 

OK, here's another one for you.

 

MAC OS X is so much better than 7 years ago Windows. See, a software example. But Mac OS is not competing with Windows 7 years ago, it's competing with current Windows.

 

BTW: I believe SWTOR stands up very well in comparison to WoW as it is now.

 

Cheers.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Lankybrit

[Wazooty]

If SWTOR shouldn't have to complete on the same level as current day wow, as some of you seem to think, it shoudn't cost as much either.

[dreadpirateandy]

Not true. All Bioware had to do was add a few other features that would alliviate some of hte griping we're seeing now. UI customization, better guild tools like banks, the ability to queue for your BG of choice instead of constantly getting Huttball - stupidest BG I have ever seen BTW). No you are wrong. They just needed to hit the main features...Buioware couldn't even do that!

 

Add a few other features? No matter what they add, there will always be people like you throwing a temper tantrum because they didn't add more. They can't win in the face of such stupidity, but in the real world they did a pretty damn good job.

 

Oh, also, you obviously just want to play WoW. So go play WoW. Stop complaining that SWTOR isn't WoW.

Edited December 30, 2011 by dreadpirateandy

[Bobbyrab]

Making excuses for Bioware to make up for SWTORS lack of features is not going to save or help this game. First impressions are everything. Your average gamer no longer has patience for games that are released incomplete. We've seen this countless times with many previous MMO's.

 

Bioware should have learned this from past releases to realize this. What I find incredibly amusing is that the honeymoon period for this game looks to be over and the game is not even 30 days old.

 

Several good points here. Say what you will about self-entitlement or instant gratification, but speaking from a business perspective, one cannot rest on a business model of well, i hope they're patient with us...

 

It just doesn't work. Like the Walgreens commercials: in a perfect world... but the world isn't perfect.

 

A note on content: you'll never get the "perfect balance." As another said, there are features in current WoW that people don't like. One gamer says, this is a MUST for every MMO. Another says, no, that would break the game completely. BW put their resources to story elements. Some people like that (such as myself) and others didn't.

 

Another comment on the quoted post: I would argue that the honeymoon period is still going for TOR, but even then many of my guildies aren't expressing the excitement I've seen them use for other games. Doubt they'll continue more than a few months.

[StarMagus]

I rather have the current way of story telling, voices, cutscenes at the start then a LFD tool or gmail system. I rather have the option to walk through the first dungeon in the game in different routes by makin different conversation choices then to always follow the same route. The game has had 1 bugfix patch and u expect it to be on the same level as wow? In many aspects this game beats WoW aswell.

 

 

 

Which is a perfectly valid arguement.

 

"I like the direction of this game as it is, not the way you want it to be and Bioware seems to agree with me."

 

Nothing wrong with that, in fact I agree with idea behind it. However that's far different then saying...

 

"Pretend that you could actually play release day WoW somehow in 2011/2012, well SWTOR is better then that!"

 

That arguement is stupid because it requires a time machine.

Edited December 30, 2011 by StarMagus

[StarMagus]

All they have added is a storyline with voice acting.

 

That alone wont sustain a game.

 

They may as well have made it single player if that's the case.

 

I'm not sure how you missed the fact that almost all of Bioware hype for the game before it launched focused on the Story, Voice Acting and Plot. Not the MMOness of the game or how it had great MMO features. They knew what the game was going for even if people who were fans didn't.

[dreadpirateandy]

Several good points here. Say what you will about self-entitlement or instant gratification, but speaking from a business perspective, one cannot rest on a business model of well, i hope they're patient with us...

 

It just doesn't work. Like the Walgreens commercials: in a perfect world... but the world isn't perfect.

 

A note on content: you'll never get the "perfect balance." As another said, there are features in current WoW that people don't like. One gamer says, this is a MUST for every MMO. Another says, no, that would break the game completely. BW put their resources to story elements. Some people like that (such as myself) and others didn't.

 

Another comment on the quoted post: I would argue that the honeymoon period is still going for TOR, but even then many of my guildies aren't expressing the excitement I've seen them use for other games. Doubt they'll continue more than a few months.

 

You also can't rest on a business model of having x more years of development to make all of the features found in every other MMO and then risk having all of the kids throwing temper tantrums that your game is just a reskinned WoW.

 

What's more damaging? Putting out a game on time, or putting out a reskinned, bloated WoW 4 years late?

[warkat]

Whats funny is not even RIFT got bashed as nearly 1/10 of what SWTOR is getting atm thats how you know the game sucks PvE is bugged/all boss's enrage so bring good dps and you win, nightmare has already been cleared by 50's in blues, and the PvP lol 1 look at the forums is nothing but how much PvP is wargames and sucks and there no is no world PvP.l..which = fail at least WoW had sick world PvP at launch.

[ShaggyShow]

That logic is the truth, and your post is just silly.

 

SWTOR is competing with current day wow, not 7 year old wow.

 

It's that simple. That is an undeniable FACT.

 

It is, i totally agree with it. But lets say bioware had exactly all the same functions as wow. Then you all would be screaming "this is a wow clone, just in the star wars setting".

 

Right now this game does some things totally different and better. Which is refreshing, new and most of all fun! In wow level 1 horde and 1 alliance to max and u have seen it pretty much all. Sofar this game has allot of solo gameplay replay value, more then wow. Multiplayer content is easy and quick to add. Solo gameplay replay value is hard to achieve. U do not like swtor now? unsubscribe and come back in a year...