Stop comparing a game that just launched to a game thats been out for 7 years

[Majestic_Jazz]

You people that defend this game by saying "Compare it to WoW in vanilla" well I will do the same.............you used to always have groups forming for quests because you NEEDED help with that elite mob, you NEEDED help with quests, the reason WoW can pretty much be soloed now is because they dumbed it down for people that find this type of MMO acceptable! MMOs are NOT meant to be soloed they are meant to GROUP with people and do things TOGETHER!

 

So again I say............

 

WE WANT BETTER THAN WOW!

 

Who says that I don't group with people!

 

In fact, I have formed groups with people to complete each other's class quest! Besides grouping for Heroics on a planet, I would advertise myself that I am a Tank and that I am willing to group up with someone to help them out with their class quest or what not and you should see the flood of invites I get from people wanting me to team up with them.

 

So this "single player" or "non mmo" or "anti grouping" concept that you speak of, does not relate to me because I group A LOT in SWTOR outside of Heroics and Flashpoints and this is coming from a person who NEVER played MMOs before.

 

So if I can do why, why the hell can't you?

[Riotus]

No idea what bioanalasis is.

 

But:

 

Ever heard about programming? You can turn off drops from a mob in a game as a programmer so people won't farm it.

I won't laugh at you because you have just to less knowledge about how to make games.

 

its a crew skill. If you have bioanalasis you can kill a creature and collect mats from it.

 

Being able to properly farm from bioanalisis > having unneeded critters randomly walking around

 

No i dont have knowledge about making games, why would I? Do you think that because you have knowledge about one field makes you superior to all? because your smug attitude sure does suggest as such.

[Mudanie]

Who says that I don't group with people!

 

In fact, I have formed groups with people to complete each other's class quest! Besides grouping for Heroics on a planet, I would advertise myself that I am a Tank and that I am willing to group up with someone to help them out with their class quest or what not and you should see the flood of invites I get from people wanting me to team up with them.

 

So this "single player" or "non mmo" or "anti grouping" concept that you speak of, does not relate to me because I group A LOT in SWTOR outside of Heroics and Flashpoints and this is coming from a person who NEVER played MMOs before.

 

So if I can do why, why the hell can't you?

 

 

Congrats, you descriped a multiplayer game, not a MMO.

[Gunryu]

Who says that I don't group with people!

 

In fact, I have formed groups with people to complete each other's class quest! Besides grouping for Heroics on a planet, I would advertise myself that I am a Tank and that I am willing to group up with someone to help them out with their class quest or what not and you should see the flood of invites I get from people wanting me to team up with them.

 

So this "single player" or "non mmo" or "anti grouping" concept that you speak of, does not relate to me because I group A LOT in SWTOR outside of Heroics and Flashpoints and this is coming from a person who NEVER played MMOs before.

 

So if I can do why, why the hell can't you?

 

 

I'd love to answer you but you wouldn't like my answer and would come back with some lame *** "It just came out give it time" crap or something like that.

[Majestic_Jazz]

Congrats, you descriped a multiplayer game, not a MMO.

 

So describe an MMO to me then!

 

This is the point I am trying to make. People want to call this a non MMO but when asked to clarify why it isn't an MMO, they go mute!

[Gunryu]

So describe an MMO to me then!

 

This is the point I am trying to make. People want to call this a non MMO but when asked to clarify why it isn't an MMO, they go mute!

 

I already told you, all of the quests can be done with just your companion, there is no NEED to group with people and the world is linear!

[ShaggyShow]

MMOs are NOT meant to be soloed they are meant to GROUP with people and do things TOGETHER!

 

You cannot solo flashpoints (unless u are above the lvl), operations or battleground. So you do need to group up for content. Does not mean that ALL the content should be made for groups. MMO's try to balance on the thin line where they can give you a great solo experience but at the same time give you a great multiplayer experience. All depending on what mood you are in. Sofar i think SWTOR walks that thin line better then any other MMO out there.

 

Anyway right now i am questing with 2 friends, and we really enjoy the "co-op" feeling (that you usually only get in single player games with a minimal multiplayer function) of quests and beeing able to join in on eachothers class quests. Yet i also like it allot to just solo on a different character when 1 of them is not around.

[Majestic_Jazz]

I already told you, all of the quests can be done with just your companion, there is no NEED to group with people and the world is linear!

 

You CHOOSE not to group with people, that is your fault. I can complete story/world quest with just my companion, but I do not. Instead, I always find 1 or 2 people to group with to do my class and world quest with.

 

As for the world's being linear, that is only opinion and a subjective one at that because I have no problem with the worlds.

 

Maybe you were expecting Star Wars Galaxies or some "sandbox" type MMO and SWTOR is not that.

[Gunryu]

You cannot solo flashpoints (unless u are above the lvl), operations or battleground. So you do need to group up for content. Does not mean that ALL the content should be made for groups. MMO's try to balance on the thin line where they can give you a great solo experience but at the same time give you a great multiplayer experience. All depending on what mood you are in. Sofar i think SWTOR walks that thin line better then any other MMO out there.

 

Anyway right now i am questing with 2 friends, and we really enjoy the "co-op" feeling (that you usually only get in single player games with a minimal multiplayer function) of quests and beeing able to join in on eachothers class quests. Yet i also like it allot to just solo on a different character when 1 of them is not around.

 

While I hate to diss an ICP fan.............you really do not know how classic great MMOs operated before WoW took over and had a great MMO then turned it into a single player game where you CAN group with people but there is no need and more benefits to soloing.

[felemeria]

Dude... cmon. WoW is 7 years old and TOR lacks its features..

 

Its like if a car designer took some features from a 7 year old car, then left out others. You'd be asking "what the hell, this 7 year old car has more features than this brand new one"

 

Learn about Design cycles..

[BrigOrion]

Like it or not, Blizzard changed the playing field with the immense popularity of WoW. You can't enter the MMO market of today expecting to succeed if you are trying to play by the rules of ten years ago.

[Mudanie]

So describe an MMO to me then!

 

This is the point I am trying to make. People want to call this a non MMO but when asked to clarify why it isn't an MMO, they go mute!

 

 

Small group sizes

Small, contained world

Small range of classes/professions

Crafting is next to useless, requires no effort

I'm on a full server, seeing 15 people out in the world is not massive

Guild functionality is non existant

Sharding

No player interdependency

 

 

Those are things that this game is lacking that make a MMO.

[Thaderin]

But to be honest, those features which have become commonplace shouldn't just be left out of a game for apparently no reason.

[Gunryu]

You CHOOSE not to group with people, that is your fault. I can complete story/world quest with just my companion, but I do not. Instead, I always find 1 or 2 people to group with to do my class and world quest with.

 

As for the world's being linear, that is only opinion and a subjective one at that because I have no problem with the worlds.

 

Maybe you were expecting Star Wars Galaxies or some "sandbox" type MMO and SWTOR is not that.

 

 

Sandbox is what MAKES an MMO, linear is what makes a single player with certain but not important co-op abilities, it's about the WORLD and exploring and doing things and exploring with friends.

[arnaudlublink]

its a crew skill. If you have bioanalasis you can kill a creature and collect mats from it.

 

Being able to properly farm from bioanalisis > having unneeded critters randomly walking around

 

No i dont have knowledge about making games, why would I? Do you think that because you have knowledge about one field makes you superior to all? because your smug attitude sure does suggest as such.

 

You are defending them(game) by saying things which dosn't make any sence because you don't have enough knowledge. I give critic on these things because I know they could easily fix or put it in.

 

And there is not even 1 good reason in this world to turn off the Search function on a importand forum in 2011! + some functions on this forum dosn't work. There is not even a function to edit your name (atleasy I couldn't find it after searching for 15 minutes). To to many silly little mystakes for a game like this

[StarMagus]

I think the problem that people are noticing when they say this game doesn't feel like an MMO is that people are used to having one central hub that the game forces people to go to over and over. For example with Rift ((not going to use WoW because the second you compare the game to WoW the rage it causes in some fans vaporizes 100 kittens)) you have your main capitals that people go back to over and over and stay at when they aren't out questing. For training, for main vendors, for just about everything the main capital is where you tend to log out and log in every day.

 

I can stand in Meridian on any day and see lots of people walking by, but in SWTOR you just don't have that feeling because everything is so spread out and every planet you go to has all the stuff you need on it while you are there. This is both good ((it makes it so you have less time spent traveling)) and bad ((You see fewer people)). Not only that but last night there were 58 people on the planet I was on, and when I grouped up for a heroic we found out there were 2 instances of the planet. This was the 32-36 level planet, which has some space to it.. but 58 people were too many for 1 shard? Ouch.

[arnaudlublink]

Small group sizes

Small, contained world

Small range of classes/professions

Crafting is next to useless, requires no effort

I'm on a full server, seeing 15 people out in the world is not massive

Guild functionality is non existant

Sharding

No player interdependency

 

 

Those are things that this game is lacking that make a MMO.

 

You are kind, you could make that list way much longer.

[Majestic_Jazz]

it's about the WORLD and exploring and doing things and exploring with friends.

 

And I have been doing that in SWTOR......

 

Your points continue to be invalid.

[Eridanus]

Granted this is my opinion, but I think SWTOR compares relatively well with WoW today. The quality of WoW's product has gone down hill, and especially so with Cataclysm.

 

Also, WoW had no where near the content EQ1 had, but still managed to stick around long enough grab a huge chunk of the market. SWTOR will too, so I'm not worried that they "will fail in a month or two". Those comments are just silly, and I've heard other MMORPG developers mention that all it takes is approximately 200k subscriptions to keep a MMO going.

 

Another thing to consider is while they are both MMORPGs they are not the same genre. There are a lot of people that will play simply because it is science fiction/star wars over fantasy.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Eridanus

[Atrozious]

SW is not competing with WoW that was launched. SW is competing with the WoW as is today.

 

And WoW as it is today sucks. Even WoW at 6 months in was better than its Launch and Anything after BC. SWTOR will have a steady community of those looking for something thats not WoW, because if theres any game out there thats not WoW right now thats worth playing, its SWTOR. Anyone that knows anything about WoW would say its complete trash now, its boring, boring as all hell. People that have been around in WoW for a while are sick of it because they are used to the trash blizzard pumps out.

 

I would also like to add that.. IF SWTOR had EVERYTHING WoW does now, it would have taken them another 4-5 years at LEAST to release just like it took WoW to include these features. Its not as simple as Copy WoW's Feautures and throw em in the game just to shut up the WoW fascists. Give this game 6 months to a year of a steady playing community and i would bet money they will have most if not all the features WoW has, And than some...

[Gunryu]

And I have been doing that in SWTOR......

 

Your points continue to be invalid.

 

You have zero concept of an MMO, you said so yourself, saying my points are invalid when I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online is kind of pathetic, and by the way, other than graphics UO stomped the hell out of this game as well.

[Valadain]

Keep in mind the choice isn't to play WoW of 7 years ago against SWTOR of now, it's to play both games as they are NOW.

 

 

It would be like saying "Don't compare the feeling of having a new game with tons of mysteries and stories you haven't explored that you get from SWTOR now with WoW on your 5th character you are grinding to max level, pretend it was 7 years ago when WoW was shiny and new and you were still exploring the world with your first charcter!"

 

 

That said if a game made with modern tech can't compete with a *7* year old game, that's pretty shameful.

 

As a developer, I have to burst this myth. There is no "modern tech". The languages today offer very little improvement from the languages seven years ago.

 

Some things, certainly, are just ideas. Like don't make quest items take bag space. Easily implemented idea. Others, like opening up an entire planet for travel, populating mobs with AI, creating content, quest lines, new models, group queuing, and any number of other things take just as much time to implement now as they did for WoW over the course of 7 years.

 

The time not spent doing these things was time spent creating group instances where you are actually doing something, with purpose, and story line. As opposed to harassing some demons that seem to just be loitering in an underground volcano. Or smacking around some dragons that offer no real threat to the world as they are stuck in rooms with exits far to small to serve them.

 

Any development team has X number of hours they can complete before launch. Each of those hours is spent on something in the game. I for one, think they spent their hours very wisely for this game. Given more hours of the course of the next seven years, tons more things will be added. I hope they spend those hours wisely as well.

[StarMagus]

I've heard other MMORPG developers mention that all it takes is approximately 200k subscriptions to keep a MMO going.

 

 

If SWTOR has anyting close to 200K subscriptions after all the money put into it EA will **** a brick.

[arnaudlublink]

You have zero concept of an MMO, you said so yourself, saying my points are invalid when I have been playing MMOs since Ultima Online is kind of pathetic, and by the way, other than graphics UO stomped the hell out of this game as well.

 

True.

 

They should sell this game as a RTS single player 3D view based game.

[Gazzzenn]

Well then. Compare it to other software then. Mac OS and Linux of today are so much better than Windows 7 years ago. That's a stupid comparison, but one that some people are advocating in this thread.

 

It just doesn't work. SWTOR has to be compared with what's currently in the market, just like ever other freakin' product in the World!

 

Cheers.

 

i agree but none of the games come out with those features either, they are added in after, which is ok too.

 

windows 7 is by far microsofts best work, arguably and quite rightly the best os on the market, some like it some don't. honestly it's working as intended, i'm not a fan of apples os never have been while it looked pretty frankly that wasn't enough it lacked compatability and still does, linux is free and by golly it is good to use if you know your way around the command structure but if your new to linux it is painfull to use....just my opinion on that though...

 

were looking at a game which could have a 10 year life cycle and were asking for everything yesterday, if we give bioware enough freedom to just do it their way by that i mean the features then we could get features we need that work well with the game we have without making them the same as every other game on the market as well.

 

essentially all most here want is a little patiance and to allow the game to evolve down it's own path rather than the path laid down by other games, it's great that blizzard changed the face of mmo games for them but that may not be the route that is best for the industry as a whole, when you break down mmorpg to it's elements blizzard fall short on rpg by a collosal margin it's not small by any stretch but they did work the mmo aspect well, some and even myself think blizzard actually ruined the mmo aspect of their own game with lfd, while it did expand the mmo from one side it hindered another side the more social of sides of the genre.

 

lfd is great in concept and essentially in practice untill you add butt hurt players to the mix that think they deserve everything and the game revolves around them, which is when it all starts to go south, for me i had a relativly easy time using lfd in wow but there was on occasion groups i just had leave not for the abuse they gave me as i usually just sat quietly by and did my job but the abuse they often gave each other, i found it disgusting that the level of annonymity they had and lack of repercusion for their actions meant they could do what ever they wanted to whoever they felt like, once they learned they could do that they didn't stop.

 

but that alludes to the thinking that all groups will turn that way, they don't i had far more good experiences than bad, but the bad ones were bad enough for me to not use lfd very often i wen't months without going near it or thinking about, so it did not do what it was meant to but at the same time for others did as well, it has positives and negatives.