Going forward, should SWTOR drop voice acted PlayerChars?

[cannibithobbal]

nope nope nope nope nope.  I would rather the story end right here right now and never have another update ever again than to stop having updates that are fully voice acted.  I would rather they limit themselves to only updating if/when/as much as they can afford to have voice acted.  As many people here have already said: they stop having the PCs voice acted, I stop playing this game.

I hated the Voss stuff in the last update that had an entire MAIN QUEST section with black bar voiceless PC.  Hated it.  HATED IT.  It was awful.  The rest of the update was fine, but that?  one of the worst laziest things they've ever released imho.  It's bad enough having side content where your character doesn't talk, but main line content?  awful.  completely takes me out of the story and makes me instantly not care about anything that's going on because it feels like I'm playing a different game and that the events I'm watching don't involve my character from swtor.

I do not like voiceless PC, do not want voiceless PC, especially not in an RPG.  I know some people do want that or are fine with that, but quite frankly those people can play a different game, there are LOADS of options for them.  There are fewer options for those of us who do want to play an MMO (or any RPG) that is fully voice acted, especially with so many different voice actor options and not just one male and one female.

And to respond to some comments I saw earlier in this thread: wanting my character voice acted is NOT about being lazy and not wanting to read.  It is about wanting my character to have a voice and feel more real and make the game more immersive.  I cannot personally connect with a character I play who has no voice.  I can play games where the PC does not speak but I will never connect with my character, my character in those games is simply a mindless avatar who does things.  Which is fine in, say, a Souls game or something where the point is "kill all the bosses, beat game".  But in an RPG I need to connect with my character, or I will not enjoy it. 

Finally, just throwing this out there: the voice actors (for PCs and NPCs alike) in swtor are FANTASTIC and play their characters to perfection ❤️, and I would rather the game end today than lose them and suddenly have all their amazing characters be silent images on a screen.

Edited August 10, 2023 by cannibithobbal

[OlBuzzard]

38 minutes ago, cannibithobbal said:

nope nope nope nope nope.  I would rather the story end right here right now and never have another update ever again than to stop having updates that are fully voice acted.  I would rather they limit themselves to only updating if/when/as much as they can afford to have voice acted.  As many people here have already said: they stop having the PCs voice acted, I stop playing this game.

I hated the Voss stuff in the last update that had an entire MAIN QUEST section with black bar voiceless PC.  Hated it.  HATED IT.  It was awful.  The rest of the update was fine, but that?  one of the worst laziest things they've ever released imho.  It's bad enough having side content where your character doesn't talk, but main line content?  awful.  completely takes me out of the story and makes me instantly not care about anything that's going on because it feels like I'm playing a different game and that the events I'm watching don't involve my character from swtor.

I do not like voiceless PC, do not want voiceless PC, especially not in an RPG.  I know some people do want that or are fine with that, but quite frankly those people can play a different game, there are LOADS of options for them.  There are fewer options for those of us who do want to play an MMO (or any RPG) that is fully voice acted, especially with so many different voice actor options and not just one male and one female.

And to respond to some comments I saw earlier in this thread: wanting my character voice acted is NOT about being lazy and not wanting to read.  It is about wanting my character to have a voice and feel more real and make the game more immersive.  I cannot personally connect with a character I play who has no voice.  I can play games where the PC does not speak but I will never connect with my character, my character in those games is simply a mindless avatar who does things.  Which is fine in, say, a Souls game or something where the point is "kill all the bosses, beat game".  But in an RPG I need to connect with my character, or I will not enjoy it. 

Finally, just throwing this out there: the voice actors (for PCs and NPCs alike) in swtor are FANTASTIC and play their characters to perfection ❤️, and I would rather the game end today than lose them and suddenly have all their amazing characters be silent images on a screen.

IMO it was one of the hallmark characteristics of SWTOR.  That is a large part of what makes this Star Wars ...  telling a story while providing content that flows with it.  One without the other ... story without content .. or content without the story ... is only 1/2 a game.

(Well said by the way).

[Spikanor]

and what about droping the trailers to save the voice acting in the game?

since we all know from the last expension it took then 2 full month's to make a 6.30 min trailer with diffrend language.

so is that then not a option i think nobody is going to miss then to have a trailer for each expension.

[akdonkey]

NO! Why should they? With the new AI voice-generating apps, there is no need to. They own the Rights to their characters and likeness they could just generate any dialog they need from this point on.

[Stradlin]

8 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

and what about droping the trailers to save the voice acting in the game?

since we all know from the last expension it took then 2 full month's to make a 6.30 min trailer with diffrend language.

so is that then not a option i think nobody is going to miss then to have a trailer for each expension.

 

Those are extremely costly in ways beyond the VA. I think 1 mil/minute is some often repeated estimation of the cost of CGI similar in quality to what TOR has. 

Marketing when it comes to costliest of AAA games, movies can sometimes be like 1/3 of the budget of the whole thing..it is pretty crazy. And often,  it works great. That super expensive KOTFE trailer generated plenty of renewed interest to SWTOR way  back when. 

Even the latest trailer, disorder, farmed tons of clicks on youtube. Just that this time, it in no way translated to interest towards the game as a whole.

[Spikanor]

7 minutes ago, akdonkey said:

NO! Why should they? With the new AI voice-generating apps, there is no need to. They own the Rights to their characters and likeness they could just generate any dialog they need from this point on.

that the compleet reason why there are on a strike now.

4 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

Marketing when it comes to costliest of AAA games

i think you cant call swtor a triple A game at all in the first place since most triple A game's have more money to spent for development and fixing problems and also some of the triple A game's you can also ask questions if there are really still triple A game's in the first place also.

8 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

That super expensive KOTFE trailer generated plenty of renewed interest to SWTOR way  back when. 

that can be true and it was maybe worth back then but we al know how big of a fail it was with the 7.0 expension that it needs a delay from 2 month's for only a trailer from 6.30 min's so to delay a expension with 2 month's to make a 6.30 min trailer and piss off the communety hard with it ask more questions if its still worth it nowaday's.

[Goreshaga]

On 8/9/2023 at 11:49 AM, Stradlin said:

 

Its funny how differently people can feel about this. Some of my fav. RPG experiences been in a situation where everybody except PC are voice acted. DA:O comes to mind. PC is " mine", therefore it suitable PCs voice is only in players imagination. Imho fully voiced player char going through its fully voiced dialogue always ends up feeling bit more like the character of the voice actor and writer, not the player. NPCs on the other hand  aren't "mine", just..well, NPCs and companions,  who joined the PC. It suits that these are "other," different. They " belong" to the game, while PC "belongs" to the player.

Yeah.

For me, it's like for cannibithobbal, i just can't relate to my characters if they're the only characters in their whole game who don't speak. It's not an issue if nobody has a voice, it's a bit like reading a book, except there are images too, it's great if everybody talks as it's a bit like watching a movie or a series except i can participate in it by choosing how my character will react, and in this game, having a voiced PC really helped me shape my characters personalities, but if the PC is silent, i just can't relate, because they stand out in a bad way compared to all the NPCs by being the only lifeless character in the whole game.

I actually can't think of a single game where the PC is the only silent character that i ever finished.

This represents pretty well how having a silent PC with talking NPCs makes me feel about my character, like they're completely empty inside and the NPCs are just monologuing.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Goreshaga

[Stradlin]

35 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

 

i think you cant call swtor a triple A game at all in the first place since most triple A game's have more money to spent for development and fixing problems and also some of the triple A game's you can also ask questions if there are really still triple A game's in the first place also.

that can be true and it was maybe worth back then but we al know how big of a fail it was with the 7.0 expension that it needs a delay from 2 month's for only a trailer from 6.30 min's so to delay a expension with 2 month's to make a 6.30 min trailer and piss off the communety hard with it ask more questions if its still worth it nowaday's.

 

SWTOR was the most expensive game ever made til GTA V came along bit later. I think  being most expensive game ever is prolly  enough to pass an an AAA release.  

 

And yeah, one can never tell in advance if marketing works or not. KOTFE trailer was prolly a great investment, tons of bang for the buck. 7.0 trailer obv failed in whatever it tried to do and money would have been better spend actually making an actual expansion rather than releasing whatver the heck 7.0 was.

KOTFE trailer had such a strong script. It is a very good, tight shortstory of its own really.  I mean, one could easily scratch the  audiovisual element all together and  translate the tale of daddy  issue twins into a very good 10-20 page short story. Story works great even if you don't know a thing about SWTOR or Star Wars.  Very few trailers stand on their own feet as well as it did.

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Stradlin

[Stradlin]

 

1 hour ago, akdonkey said:

NO! Why should they? With the new AI voice-generating apps, there is no need to. They own the Rights to their characters and likeness they could just generate any dialog they need from this point on.

 

Fear of AI is a huge reason behind the current strikes in the first place. Actors, even writers worry of AI for same reason somebody who used to make a living by assembling cars in Detroid was worried when seeing a robot doing the same job.

 

In general,even  modders  with access to good AI can already do incredible things with artificial voice acting, There is a Skyrim mod able to generate decent fully VA'd dialogue on the fly. AI-acted NPCs imitating the original voice actors are literally responding to words player speaks out to his mic. It is wild...

....And also something extremely immoral and illegal, if you ask from human actors. You can be sure you'll never hear a voice acted AI female trooper that sounds just like Jennifer Hale, for example. There's like a phonebook's worth of red text on various contracts preventing this.

It would totally be TOR's salvation in like..5 years from now? But I bet it won't be doable due to PR disaster fears/legal issues.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Stradlin

[Spikanor]

3 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

SWTOR was the most expensive game ever made til GTA V came along bit later. I think  being most expensive game ever is prolly  enough to pass an an AAA release.

but if SWTOR is a triple A game then why is it failing this hard with release good contant and fixing bugs since other triple A game's are doing much better with then SWTOR since there are still ton's of bugs in this game and 1 expension update each year is also not worth in my eye's the triple A status at all.

7 minutes ago, Stradlin said:

And yeah, one can never tell in advance if marketing works or not. KOTFE trailer was prolly a great investment, tons of bang for the buck. 7.0 trailer obv failed in whatever it tried to do and money would have been better spend actually making an actual expansion rather than whatver the heck 7.0 was.

you know that the contant it got with the trailer was also big and a lot so thats why the trailer has do it job also by releasing a lot of story contant for it.

and most of all with the KOTFE trailer there not tell first we going to delay the expension with 2 month's 1 week before the release day and tell later on that the reason of the delay was because we have no trailer yet so yea no wonder it has not do its job good and that it also get a 1 hour story line contant was maybe also more the reason why it has fail big time with the 7.0 trailer since the contant from it was all a big fail from the start.

so with or without the trailer it was going to fail for sure so why waste more money and time to something what is all going to fail from the start since if the contant is really worse then a trailer is only making things more worse then doing good.

[dinowoman]

4 hours ago, Spikanor said:

4 hours ago, Spikanor said:

you know that the contant it got with the trailer was also big and a lot so thats why the trailer has do it job also by releasing a lot of story contant for it.

1 hour story line contant was maybe also more the reason why it has fail big time with the 7.0 trailer since the contant from it was all a big fail from the start.

You are looking at the KotFE story, from the sound of it, as someone who has come to it after it was complete. It's a long story, but it was released one chapter at a time, and some of the chapters had some quite major bugs. I'm pretty sure the current story will also turn out to be pretty long when it's complete - there's quite a lot of it already. And, like KotFE, it's also being released a little at a time (though I admit the gaps between them are longer). I've no idea whether the trailer has brought in many new players this time, but there are plenty of old ones who come back for new expansions and I imagine a good trailer helps to entice them.

But to return to the original topic of this thread, this game wouldn't be anywhere near as immersive without full voice-acting (I was hooked the first time my first character opened his mouth), but using AI for voices, even if some kind of contract could be worked out with the actors, is a pretty dangerous thing to get into, given what can be achieved illegally with AI, even by amateurs.

 

[Spikanor]

46 minutes ago, dinowoman said:

 

i think you have mess up something with the quote since its not looking good at all.

46 minutes ago, dinowoman said:

and some of the chapters had some quite major bugs.

some of then still have bugs and are not been fix at all when there have been report to then so thats notting new at all if there got bugs since some of the chapters still got then.

 

46 minutes ago, dinowoman said:

I've no idea whether the trailer has brought in many new players this time, but there are plenty of old ones who come back for new expansions and I imagine a good trailer helps to entice them.

a trailer can bring new players to the game but then most the contant also be good.

and what a lot of us have see with the 7.0 expension is that there have make a big mess from it and only have make it more worse with the trailer from it since it has only piss off the people only more and the trust level only has become worse since then.

if there tell 1 week before the release of the expension there delay it with 2 month's and after 2 month's when people are all pisst off for the wrong move there have done there only have make it worse since there told there was no trailer yet so the 2 month's delay it got was not to fix the contant but only for a stupid 6.30 min trailer when the contant was also crap with 1 hour of new story line.

you know a lot off people got hype up for the new expension but there have destroy it not one time but two time's with the same expension.

since today we have never hear from the developers that there have make a big mistake with it so thats something what also count if you mess a big time like what there done there are not telling from it was stupid from us to do it this way and explane the reason why there choose to make a big mess from it since the launch of 7.0 was the worst of the worst there have ever done.

 

46 minutes ago, dinowoman said:

even if some kind of contract could be worked out with the actors, is a pretty dangerous thing to get into, given what can be achieved illegally with AI, even by amateurs.

so far i know its only in 1 country happing with the strike in a lot of other country's like the EU there are not on a strike at all so if the strike there are doing in the US is going to do something good for then or only make things worse for then who knows but one thing is for sure is that company's always find a way to keep things going on by using other actors that are not on strike or voice actors so to understand it easy there get replace by other one's.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Spikanor

[OlBuzzard]

The simple fact is that if the VA / story telling ... related items are removed from SWTOR yet another group of players will be pushed away ... again!

I honestly don't think that SWTOR can really afford to lose any more players / subscribers.  Granted .. the CM is the real cash cow ...  but that will only go so far if we see another exodus!  The fewer people who play this game ... the less likely there will be people to visit the CM.  

I'm guessing that maintenance mode may be the end result after all!  Let's face it.  Gutting the story / content and rehashing just the old stuff that we've seen for several years now?  There's just not a whole lot left to do!

[Stradlin]

18 hours ago, Goreshaga said:

 

This represents pretty well how having a silent PC with talking NPCs makes me feel about my character, like they're completely empty inside and the NPCs are just monologuing.

Omg this was so great:D Huge DA:O vibes! Actally made me wanna install it, heh. Some of Viva la dirt league stuff has ridiculously good writing, production values and acting. That old grizzled war leaders delivers like pushing for an Oscar.

 

In general, I guess larger cRPG crowd is perfectly fine with mute PCs. Baldur's Gate 3 seems like the most successful (in terms of sales, user score, review score)  rpg in a very, very long time.PC there  is as  mute as it gets! 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Stradlin

[Goreshaga]

1 hour ago, Stradlin said:

Omg this was so great:D Huge DA:O vibes! Actally made me wanna install it, heh. Some of Viva la dirt league stuff has ridiculously good writing, production values and acting. That old grizzled war leaders delivers like pushing for an Oscar.

 

In general, I guess larger cRPG crowd is perfectly fine with mute PCs. Baldur's Gate 3 seems like the most successful (in terms of sales, user score, review score)  rpg in a very, very long time.PC there  is as  mute as it gets! 

 

 

 

Yeah really like their stuff, especially the Epic NPC Man skits.

To be fair the guy has been in a few things, including as Óin in The Hobbit trilogy, and KOTOR 2 apparently, so he's a fairly experienced actor. But yeah he went all in for this role.

 

I guess it's not an issue to some people, it may also not be an issue for others if the PC never talked, but here i guess for some, the fact the PC always taked is part of the enjoyement and removing that would kill a lot of it.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Goreshaga

[RebelJedaii]

Nope. The voice acting and cut scenes made SWTOR stand out from other games that you had to read all the quests.  I think they went a bit OVERBOARD with the cut scenes in KOTET and KOTFE (as in, sometimes it felt like more cut scene than actual playing) but if I wanted the black bar treatment I'd just play KOTOR or KOTOR 2. 

[MaximusRex]

No.