Please don't make alts useless by limiting CQ rewards to only 3 characters

[ralphieceaser]

If you go to the gym, and only do bench press, don't complain when people mention "chicken legs".

Not a great metaphor here, considering once again you are implying playing aka "bench press" a single character is the wrong, unhealthy and bad way to play the game while playing alts is the right, healthy and good way to play the game.

 

You keep going around thinking and telling others that your alt playstyle deserves more than people who play mains, that attitude is evidence by itself.

[MystyqeofXev]

Not a great metaphor here, considering once again you are implying playing aka "bench press" a single character is the wrong, unhealthy and bad way to play the game while playing alts is the right, healthy and good way to play the game.

 

You keep going around thinking and telling others that your alt playstyle deserves more than people who play mains, that attitude is evidence by itself.

 

Oh irony, thy blade has slain me!

 

I'm not "telling" you to do anything. YOU made the choice to focus on one character. YOU. The current paradigm allows for ANYONE to adopt that playstyle. Or not. However YOU (the ubiquitous you) understands the constraints of that system.

 

EDIT: If the new changes benefited crafters - well, anyone can do that. If the new changes benefited PvPers and ONLY PvPers, the {NICHE} group would wail like a five year old girl who couldn't attend her friend's sleepover.

 

However, PvP is a simple click of a button to join. The time constraints, the fixed hours, the finding of other LMI's is ameliorated to one degree or another.

 

NiM "raiders" aren't complaining because this benefits them, AT THE EXPENSE OF OTHERS. (Unlike, for example, crafting).

 

Small guilds WILL complain once these changes go live.

 

Casuals, who don't frequent these boards WILL complain - or quit. The second and third order effects of these changes will be drastic.

 

What EA is implementing is a shift that favors a very NICHE group. As has been well documented, in this thread and others, is that said shift is aimed at, and benefits, a very select group. Said shift is based on a false premise (many actually), and has been disproven (via sub count) numerous times over the past two decades.

Edited November 18, 2021 by MystyqeofXev
Forgot Something

[Spikanor]

i think if you reach the 600 marks of commendation that you still can compleet the conquest's on your other alts if there are also lvl 80

the only diffrend is that you not get any more marks of commendation since you have reach the limit all?

 

it maybe works the same as the guild commendations if you reach the limit from that your guild stills level up and so only thing is that you not get any more guild commendations since the limit has been reach.

[ralphieceaser]

Oh irony, thy blade has slain me!

 

I'm not "telling" you to do anything. YOU made the choice to focus on one character. YOU. The current paradigm allows for ANYONE to adopt that playstyle. Or not. However YOU (the ubiquitous you) understands the constraints of that system.

 

EDIT: If the new changes benefited crafters - well, anyone can do that. If the new changes benefited PvPers and ONLY PvPers, the {NICHE} group would wail like a five year old girl who couldn't attend her friend's sleepover.

You are very clearly telling me that my playstyle focus on mains is not deserving as many rewards as your alt focused playstyle.

 

My argument is not about any group targeting or anything like that, it is about fairness and balance.

If i grind 600k conquest points on one character I shouldnt be receiving just one conquest box while a person who plays 12 alts and gets 50k conquest on each gets 12 boxes.

 

That is simply wrong because it rewards one playstyle more than the other, therefore in order to balance you either give 12 boxes to the main or you limit how many boxes the alt person gets.

 

Bioware chose to go for the latter, not what I would have preferred but it is a step closer to fairness and balance compared to current system which overwhelmingly benefits alt playstyle.

Edited November 18, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[divinecynic]

You are very clearly telling me that my playstyle focus on mains is not deserving as many rewards as your alt focused playstyle.

 

My argument is not about any group targeting or anything like that, it is about fairness and balance.

If i grind 600k conquest points on one character I shouldnt be receiving just one conquest box while a person who plays 12 alts and gets 50k conquest on each gets 12 boxes.

 

That is simply wrong because it rewards one playstyle more than the other, therefore in order to balance you either give 12 boxes to the main or you limit how many boxes the alt person gets.

 

Bioware chose to go for the latter, not what I would have preferred but it is a step closer to fairness and balance compared to current system which overwhelmingly benefits alt playstyle.

 

Let me be clear. I am telling you that a single character should not get as much rewards as running alts. This is how the game has always been setup. You cannot get all the story without playing multiple characters. So if you run only one trooper should you get the agent storyline as well? You cannot do all the flashpoints or planetary quest on one character. You need at least one per faction for that. Simply put Swtor has always been set up to reward alt play on all levels. With lockouts, having alts is even useful for Ops, especially with gear being legacy bound now. In the new content, one character cannot be be both a loyalist and saboteur.

 

Many quests either can only be run once, once a day, or one a week. Playing more alts let's you get the rewards more. Playing alts on more than one server gets you more cartel coins.

Yes Swtor in some ways favors alt playstyle. It always has and likely always will. Bioware is not going to change that because it would hurt cartel sales if nothing else. Further alts played means less cosmetics bought.

 

Conquest should not be unique in this.

 

Also, when casual and conquest players are complaining about the changes coming up it is because something is being lost. What you are arguing for is things changing so your way of play is more rewarding. It's the same thing that the raiders are doing. Further, for the most part casuals are only asking for access to the same rewards as others or the rewards they are already getting not be taken away from them.

 

Thirdly is actually a nonsense complaint. Everything the legacies can get out completing conquest more times you can get by focusing on a solo character. You might have to buy some of it, but if you push you can earn as much, if not more credits to make up the difference. The boxes aren't giving you that much. The crafting mats aren't that pricey. Run Ops and you will get more gear and mats. Run flashpoints and you will as well. That's why you don't need to reward over achieving in conquest points on a single toon. However there is a point to getting a ton of conquest points on a single toon even now, the planetary leaderboards which some guilds are all about.

 

The limits they are pretty on earning gear aren't just going to heavy alt players but most other ways of playing the game.

 

Ultimately, the issue is that this change to conquest, like so much else is 7.0 is going to drive people away. There is not enough story coming to keep them around. Enough people go and stop spending money and the game shuts down. That's the issue.

Edited November 18, 2021 by divinecynic

[Jeweledleah]

*Meanwhile here casually at 600k/50k not even 2 days since the weekly reset stuck with only 1 box of conquest rewards*

Dont use terms like time, work and money as if they are only relevant for people who play alts and everybody else's time, work and money is irrelevant cuz they choose to play on a main.

 

Why do you get 20 boxes right now, when I get one even though I do a lot of content.

 

dude. your arguments were bad in a previous thread and they are STILL bad. (so I guess I can still post for a bit, till forums log me out)

 

in order to "casually" get those 600k in 2 days, YOU HAD TO HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THOSE 2 days, morning to night. of you "casually" play THAT much on your onw character, guess what???? YOU WILL END UP WITH THE SAME 600k.

 

those boxes of gear we get today? we need them to gear the characters we are playing. why the hell do you need 20 boxes if you are only playing a single character? I need them cause I'm playing 20 (I'm not actualy, but its the number you keep using, so lets go with it) I have to gear as many characters as I get boxes so in the end it evens out and comes down to INDIVIDUAL TIME INVESTMENT. someone who plays more - gets more stuff, regardless of whether they play on one character or 20. your idea of fairness is laughable, because you think that getting fewer rewards for more invested game time is fair.

 

come. ON.

[Eli_Porter]

in order to "casually" get those 600k in 2 days, YOU HAD TO HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR THE ENTIRETY OF THOSE 2 days, morning to night. of you "casually" play THAT much on your onw character, guess what???? YOU WILL END UP WITH THE SAME 600k.

 

I regularly get 2 million on the first day on one character, and while I do play a lot on the first day it's from the afternoon to the night, with a small 30 minute break. I get one conquest reward out of that 2 million while someone getting 1/4th of my points spread across 10 characters would get 10 conquest rewards. I'm not gonna get into whether that's fair or not as I'm fairly neutral on the topic, but please try to understand his point of view instead of being rude about it. Some people may not want to feel coerced to play loads of alts just so they can gear their main optimally. Though thanks to conquest gear being the lowest quality as far as stat distribution, you won't be able to do that with conquest rewards anyway in 7.0 even with commendations uncapped.

 

Those boxes of gear we get today? we need them to gear the characters we are playing. why the hell do you need 20 boxes if you are only playing a single character? I need them cause I'm playing 20 (I'm not actualy, but its the number you keep using, so lets go with it) I have to gear as many characters as I get boxes so in the end it evens out and comes down to INDIVIDUAL TIME INVESTMENT. someone who plays more - gets more stuff, regardless of whether they play on one character or 20. your idea of fairness is laughable, because you think that getting fewer rewards for more invested game time is fair.

 

come. ON.

 

First off you don't currently need that to gear alts to 306 due to the renown system and legacy bound moddable gear. And as far as 7.0 rewards go, while there are no more Resource Matrix rewards, I believe you'll still get Flagship Encryptions as well as Tech Fragments to buy legendary gear/tacticals/RPM's. We don't know how alt gearing will work due to not knowing how Loadouts will work or how other objectives reward gear, so it's a lot of speculation as to how much this 3 character cap for commendations actually matters.

 

Bottom line is don't be rude about it, everyone is getting the wrong end of the stick except for NiM raiders so the less we argue amongst ourselves the better.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Eli_Porter

[casirabit]

if all you do with your alts is use them for conquest then they are useless regardless. That isn't what they are meant for though that is just one thing they can do. You are meant to enjoy your alts, play a different playstyle, fill a group looking for a different role, enjoy a different story, do extra crafting.. etc etc.. Alts where a thing before conquest, they will be a thing after.

 

There is that word "useless" You believe that if a person does conquest that they are not enjoying conquest. I have 14 characters and they are all level 75. I am not going to do crafting as that is useless. I enjoy running through various dailies (I don't do heroics normally) but I like doing the weeklies and therefore am enjoying playing my alts, my way. I do not group up unless the guild members are there. I will not group up with PUGS, had my fill of PUGS at launch. All my characters have a different playstyle as each of them have a different way to play. So to me they are not useless because I am also doing conquest, but then again I am trying to get the encryptions for both guilds. So let not start saying because a person plays a certain way, through conquest, that their alts are useless. You may think that but some don't.

[MystyqeofXev]

There is that word "useless" You believe that if a person does conquest that they are not enjoying conquest. I have 14 characters and they are all level 75. I am not going to do crafting as that is useless. (1) I enjoy running through various dailies (I don't do heroics normally) but I like doing the weeklies and therefore am enjoying playing my alts, my way. I do not group up unless the guild members are there. I will not group up with PUGS, had my fill of PUGS at launch. (2) All my characters have a different playstyle as each of them have a different way to play. So to me they are not useless because I am also doing conquest, but then again I am trying to get the encryptions for both guilds. So let not start saying because a person plays a certain way, through conquest, that their alts are useless. You may think that but some don't.

 

(1) Ooof. Kick me in the nuggets why don't ya? Crafting is how I generate a lot of income

 

(2) I find that by putting certain people on 'ignore', that cuts down on: in-group idiocy, bad play, or other traits I don't want to deal with during my playtime. Since you have played since launch, I assume your 'ignore' list is full. (THAT would be a nice credit sink I tell ya. (Increase ignore 'capacity')

[Aghasett]

You don't invest a player as deeply into numerous characters as this game lends itself to doing and then one day have most of those characters ineligible for rewards. It's a sucker punch. It's not tolerable to be paying for a service that decides to so radically kneecap everything that's come before it.

[SaerethDL]

There is that word "useless" You believe that if a person does conquest that they are not enjoying conquest. I have 14 characters and they are all level 75. I am not going to do crafting as that is useless. I enjoy running through various dailies (I don't do heroics normally) but I like doing the weeklies and therefore am enjoying playing my alts, my way. I do not group up unless the guild members are there. I will not group up with PUGS, had my fill of PUGS at launch. All my characters have a different playstyle as each of them have a different way to play. So to me they are not useless because I am also doing conquest, but then again I am trying to get the encryptions for both guilds. So let not start saying because a person plays a certain way, through conquest, that their alts are useless. You may think that but some don't.

 

ugh i was referring to the op when they used the word, they said their alts will be useless without conquest. That is not true. They are not useless without conquest.

[TrixxieTriss]

(2) I find that by putting certain people on 'ignore', that cuts down on: in-group idiocy, bad play, or other traits I don't want to deal with during my playtime. Since you have played since launch, I assume your 'ignore' list is full. (THAT would be a nice credit sink I tell ya. (Increase ignore 'capacity')

 

Sorry, but that would be a terrible credit sink. Bioware would just increase the numbers as QOL. Making you pay to avoid toxicity would be very bad optics for EA who is trying to appear less toxic than say, Blizzard.

[Akevv]

64 billion credits sounds like a ‘lot’, until you also admit that most vets of the game walk around with multiple billions, and perhaps a guild or two of their own. These things are all relative. Further, it’s not exactly a secret that the two biggest sources of credits are:

 

1) The Cartel Market

2) Credit sellers

 

Y’all are -still- messing around with conquest, and it’s virtually a -drop- in the bucket regarding inflation versus the latest Darth Malgus bobble you’re selling on the Cartel Market for $25 (each cartel coin, buying at $100 level, is worth $.006).

 

If EA is worried about inflation, look in the mirror.

[TrixxieTriss]

64 billion credits sounds like a ‘lot’, until you also admit that most vets of the game walk around with multiple billions, and perhaps a guild or two of their own. These things are all relative. Further, it’s not exactly a secret that the two biggest sources of credits are:

 

1) The Cartel Market

2) Credit sellers

 

Y’all are -still- messing around with conquest, and it’s virtually a -drop- in the bucket regarding inflation versus the latest Darth Malgus bobble you’re selling on the Cartel Market for $25 (each cartel coin, buying at $100 level, is worth $.006).

 

If EA is worried about inflation, look in the mirror.

 

/Sigh

 

It doesn’t seem to matter how many times someone explains this, people still don’t realise that the Cartel Market, the GTN or even credit sellers, don’t “make” the credits out of thin air.

 

Players need to generate (make) the credits first by playing the content or gaining rewards or selling items at a vendor. All the Cartel market, GTN or credit sellers do is help move those credits from one group of players to another, they don’t make them.

 

It doesn’t really matter how much Bioware list stuff on the CM because that doesn’t drive inflation. Most of those items on the CM have been that price for 4+ years. The only way you have hyperinflation is when there is too much currency in the game and it’s triggered by lack of supply or extra high demand.

 

TO SUM UP:

CM, GTN or Credit sellers can’t make credits and they can’t cause inflation without the games economy already having too many credits.

Yes you can obtain credits personally by buying and selling CM items on the GTN or worse, from credit sellers. But you aren’t making credits. You are obtaining them from of other players who’ve already made them from playing content or obtained them from other players who played content.

Edited November 19, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[ceryxp]

64 billion credits sounds like a ‘lot’, until you also admit that most vets of the game walk around with multiple billions, and perhaps a guild or two of their own. These things are all relative. Further, it’s not exactly a secret that the two biggest sources of credits are:

 

1) The Cartel Market

2) Credit sellers

 

Y’all are -still- messing around with conquest, and it’s virtually a -drop- in the bucket regarding inflation versus the latest Darth Malgus bobble you’re selling on the Cartel Market for $25 (each cartel coin, buying at $100 level, is worth $.006).

 

If EA is worried about inflation, look in the mirror.

 

That is incorrect. The Cartel Market does not generate credits. The selling of CM items on the GTN only transfers credits from player to player, along with removing some via the GTN tax. All of the credits that credit sellers sell were generated by the game; whether that be through exploits, lock box farming, or some other means they were generated by the game.

 

Inflation in this game comes from two primary sources: BW's infinite credit generator that continuously pumps more credits into the game, and their inability to put in place, whilst also removing, viable credit sinks.

 

Printing money does not inherently cause inflation, but printing more and more year over year without means to direct those funds does cause inflation. The more credits BW puts into the game the lower the purchasing power of the credit will become over time as players accumulate more and more credits. Couple this with a lack of repeatable credit sinks, which is how credits are removed from circulation, and inflation is bound to run rampant. BW could do something about inflation, but the reality is that it is not in their best interest to do anything about inflation.

 

The Cartel Market runs on the principle of artificial scarcity. By moving items in and out they induce impulse buying, but that artificial scarcity also contributes to inflation, and the more something costs on the GTN, the more out of reach it becomes to the masses, the more likely one is to purchase Cartel Coins and buy it from the Market. And, since items move in and out, people are encouraged to buy immediately and not wait for a sale as their desired item could disappear at any time.

 

You are correct that BW is to blame for the inflation, but not for the reasons that you think.

[MystyqeofXev]

Trixxie, I did the math. A player who has 36 alts, each of whom reaches 50k CQ, sells EVERYTHING (at market prices) , generates 46 million a week. Do that for 7 weeks and you can afford a GTN Revan's mask.

 

Do it for 40 weeks, and you can buy a Tulak Horde LS.

[Toraak]

Trixxie, I did the math. A player who has 36 alts, each of whom reaches 50k CQ, sells EVERYTHING (at market prices) , generates 46 million a week. Do that for 7 weeks and you can afford a GTN Revan's mask.

 

Do it for 40 weeks, and you can buy a Tulak Horde LS.

 

No they do not make that much. Each character creates 250k from the credit chips (if they are also in a large guild on all characrers). This means the credit chips 36x250,000=9,000,000. Now if you sell off the items in those crates your not going to come anywhere close to creating an additional 37 million credits in 1 week.

 

The solid resource matrixes do not create credits into the economy, they only ship them from one character to another, so any credits you get from those won't count in that total.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Toraak

[TrixxieTriss]

Trixxie, I did the math. A player who has 36 alts, each of whom reaches 50k CQ, sells EVERYTHING (at market prices) , generates 46 million a week. Do that for 7 weeks and you can afford a GTN Revan's mask.

 

Do it for 40 weeks, and you can buy a Tulak Horde LS.

 

Yeah, you’re playing the content and generating the credits. Which was my point in my previous post. Someone has to first generate the credits into the game. When too many credits are generated without enough effective credit sinks, they start to lose their value for some people. Especially if you’re able to play the GTN successfully and move a bunch of those credits from other players to yourself.

 

Sadly, these changes aren’t going to fix the inflation by themselves because the credits are already in the game. All it’s going to do is limit new or returning players from accruing credits in a similar manner to what you’ve described. Those of us who already have a bunch of credits won’t even feel the effects of this credit Nerf to conquest.

 

The only way Bioware can fairly and effectively combat inflation is to add cosmetic or QOL credits sinks as well as making changes to the GTN tax system. If Bioware has no plans to do this, then the Nerfs to conquest will have zero impact for most current players. It will only affect new, returning or currently poor players in 7.0.

 

Which means inflation will continue and new players will be priced out of the market unless they are willing to spend real money on the CM to sell stuff on the GTN. Which might be Bioware’s goal here. They probably don’t care about inflation as long as they make more money from the CM.

[TrixxieTriss]

No they do not make that much. Each character creates 250k from the credit chips (if they are also in a large guild on all characrers). This means the credit chips 36x250,000=9,000,000. Now if you sell off the items in those crates your not going to come anywhere close to creating an additional 37 million credits in 1 week.

 

The solid resource matrixes do not create credits into the economy, they only ship them from one character to another, so any credits you get from those won't count in that total.

 

You’re forgetting the renown crates and drops you get from just doing activities linked to conquest. Ie, flashpoints drop a hell of a lot of stuff to sell or deconstruct for tech frags. Even doing heroics gives you a bunch of crap to sell at vendors.

When you add all of that together with the conquest rewards, you could theoretically make as much as they are saying.

 

But that’s really the worst way to obtain credits from conquest (you’ll notice I said obtain, not make). The best way to maximise your credit obtaining potential is to deconstruct everything possible and convert them to tech frags. Then convert the tech frags into OEMs/RPMs to sell on the GTN for 30-50 million each.

 

Before I stopped playing recently, I was easily able to obtain 200+ million a week from just selling those on the GTN.

Edited November 19, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[MystyqeofXev]

 

 

The only way Bioware can fairly and effectively combat inflation is to add cosmetic or QOL credits sinks as well as making changes to the GTN tax system. I

 

.

 

I have made BOTH these recommendations.

 

1) Why do you get your deposit back?

 

1a) While the sales tax can be a bit onerous, it is manageable.

 

2) How fast would money dry up if "old" Cartel Packs / Hypercrates were available on a vendor, for credits ONLY?

[TrixxieTriss]

I have made BOTH these recommendations.

 

1) Why do you get your deposit back?

 

1a) While the sales tax can be a bit onerous, it is manageable.

 

2) How fast would money dry up if "old" Cartel Packs / Hypercrates were available on a vendor, for credits ONLY?

 

1. You should get your deposit back otherwise people would stop listing. They would just circumvent the GTN and sell in chat.

 

1a. Having a sliding tax that scaled based on listed price would take large amounts of credits from the game from the players that can afford it the most, while having the least impact on players who can’t.

 

2. Most of us with lots of credits have been playing for many years, so we already have a lot of the old pack items. That being said, it would be help a little bit, but they should also be available on the CM for people willing to pay real money if they don’t have the credits in the game.

 

The more cosmetic credit sinks the better. A one size fits all credit sink won’t work and won’t target the highest credits.

Edited November 19, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[MystyqeofXev]

 

The more cosmetic credit sinks the better. A one size fits all credit sink won’t work and won’t target the highest credits.

 

I would buy the Revan's mask (and other items) from the vendor in the Bazaar. For far more than they are listed. Buy I haven't been playing long enough to amass the "Cartel Certificates".

 

Now, if I could BUY Cartel Certificates, then that's another story. But I have to wait for Galactic Seasons (?), or the Cantina event.

[TrixxieTriss]

I would buy the Revan's mask (and other items) from the vendor in the Bazaar. For far more than they are listed. Buy I haven't been playing long enough to amass the "Cartel Certificates".

 

Now, if I could BUY Cartel Certificates, then that's another story. But I have to wait for Galactic Seasons (?), or the Cantina event.

 

Yeah, they need to find away to get rid of certificates or a way to buy them for credits in the game. Those vendors go to waste because there aren’t any reliable sources to get certificates on a regular basis.

[Xhuuyaa]

Y...because there aren’t any reliable sources to get certificates....

 

Have such reliable sources ever existed? I don't think so.

 

Whats bothering me more is that BW encouraged people for years to make alts and now they are going to punish those who have done it.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Xhuuyaa

[TrixxieTriss]

Have such reliable sources ever existet? I don't think so.

 

Whats bothering me more is that BW encouraged people for years to make alts and now they are going to punish those who have done it.

 

They were originally designed for CM boxes. When they removed them from those, they became much harder to get. For awhile we could get them from our own strong hold slot machine decorations. Then they nerfed those too.

At this point they should really remove them / convert them to something more obtainable playing content or at least let people buy them via credits. They would actually be a good credit sink of sorts.

Edited November 19, 2021 by TrixxieTriss