Games to play if 7.0 fails hard?

[TheVoyant]

I'm struggling to get through the initial story for Final Fantasy 14. I hope it gets better after that, because I've been occasionally frustrated. Not sure if I can persist, but we'll see. I hear people say it's a story-driven MMO, but I'm like, "What the [REDACTED] is everyone talking about?"

 

It is one of the most divisive results I've seen, a lot of players really enjoy it and will say "Its a great story n starts slow."

 

I stopped on the third expansion and was like "I hate everything about this world and hope all its citizens die." to the story. A lot of people think its the worst story. I've classified it as a renpy game with GCDs. (Their Macro/UI/Menus systems being built in though was a hardcore love and their crafting was dope.) Story made FF12 look like a friggin masterpiece. Worst FF story imo but again some people swear by it.

 

And an update Lost Ark has been amazing, has everything I wish SW:ToR had and then some.

[MystyqeofXev]

FF 14 started SOOOO slow. Lord.

 

EDIT: If GW2 had Dwarves, I would play that.

Edited November 8, 2021 by MystyqeofXev
Forgot Something

[turbomagnus]

FF 14 started SOOOO slow. Lord.

 

Honestly, as much as I love them, that's sort of a trademark of Final Fantasy games; slow starts, often with extended cutscenes interspersed with limited tutorial activity. I remember the first time I played FFXII, the opening cutscenes and tutorial sequence lasted about an hour, I suppose.

 

Still, it could be worse - No intentions of touching EVE Online again; that's a game that was honestly just too slow for me, takes forever to travel, forever to gather resources, forever to fight enemies, despite the claims otherwise it feels like you're constantly having to micromanage everything... I gave up on it after a few days because I just couldn't enjoy it.

[merovejec]

I will just play old games like NFS Underground and remastered old games. Maybe Diablo 2.

[ExarSun]

So ive been hearing good things about FF14 and prolly this is where I'll go. A question...to whoever plays it or have played it. Is the story somehow linked to raids....i hate story being gatekeeped behing group content. I have no patience for group content anymore, because of work, no longer a teenager.

[MystyqeofXev]

Master of Magic

 

MTGA

 

Killing Floor (Zombie shooter)

[SteveTheCynic]

So ive been hearing good things about FF14 and prolly this is where I'll go. A question...to whoever plays it or have played it. Is the story somehow linked to raids....i hate story being gatekeeped behing group content. I have no patience for group content anymore, because of work, no longer a teenager.

The basic "no expansions" story contains several instances of mandatory group content.

[Pirana]

So ive been hearing good things about FF14 and prolly this is where I'll go. A question...to whoever plays it or have played it. Is the story somehow linked to raids....i hate story being gatekeeped behing group content. I have no patience for group content anymore, because of work, no longer a teenager.

 

The entire MSQ, main story line is intertwined with dungeons and raids, there is no way around it unless you purchase story skips. This continues until the end of the game. Endwalker, their next expansion, which has been delayed, but on the horizon, I assume will continue this trend. The only way to progress your story and enter new expansions, without purchasing story skips is, you will have to defeat specific dungeons, which most are easy, and raids, with some raids being moderately difficult. The progression is mandatory unless you pay.

 

Notable, there is a 2.5 GCD, which is part of what makes the leveling process in that game borderline terrible, but it is lessened as you level and gain more abilities to weave in between the GCD, in addition to certain passives which can lower the GCD, if I remember right, to two seconds. FF14 overall has a lot to offer, but I would do some research on Youtube or other media outlets first before you dive into it. It's not for everyone.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Pirana

[ExarSun]

The entire MSQ, main story line is intertwined with dungeons and raids, there is no way around it unless you purchase story skips. This continues until the end of the game. Endwalker, their next expansion, which has been delayed, but on the horizon, I assume will continue this trend. The only way to progress your story and enter new expansions, without purchasing story skips is, you will have to defeat specific dungeons, which most are easy, and raids, with some raids being moderately difficult. The progression is mandatory unless you pay.

 

Notable, there is a 2.5 GCD, which is part of what makes the leveling process in that game borderline terrible, but it is lessened as you level and gain more abilities to weave in between the GCD, in addition to certain passives which can lower the GCD, if I remember right, to two seconds. FF14 overall has a lot to offer, but I would do some research on Youtube or other media outlets first before you dive into it. It's not for everyone.

 

Thank you, and also thanks to Steeve. Gone are my days when we raided for whole nights wiht 50 people old Lineage 2 Raids like Valakas, Zaken etc., or grouping for Nim Raids Here. I no longer have the time or the mindset to do this. I enjoy the other aspectss of MMO stil, but no longer grouping for serious content. I will have to think about FF14 then, i was almost on the edge to buy the game and all the expansions.

[Pirana]

Thank you, and also thanks to Steeve. Gone are my days when we raided for whole nights wiht 50 people old Lineage 2 Raids like Valakas, Zaken etc., or grouping for Nim Raids Here. I no longer have the time or the mindset to do this. I enjoy the other aspectss of MMO stil, but no longer grouping for serious content. I will have to think about FF14 then, i was almost on the edge to buy the game and all the expansions.

 

Steve nor I, certainly don't want to detour you from trying it out. What we have presented are, unfortunately the facts regarding the game. I put in over $250.00 (cosmetics and mounts, not mandatory at all) into the game over the course of three months, and even after that, I don't regret trying it out. It just wasn't the game for me.

 

If you're wanting to try it out, then go for it. The dungeons are mandatory during the leveling process, but not knowing mechanics really only start having real consequences once you get into Heavensward, their first expansion, but the early part of the game, is a piece of cake. The raids for the most part are similar while leveling. Once you get into HW, going in blindly could get you killed, same with the next two expansions, Stormblood and Shadowbringers. The end game raiding scene is no different than here, it's a smaller population that run NM here and their Ultimates are the same there. If you're curious about the game though, I would try it out. You may like it.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Pirana

[JediQuaker]

Btw, I recently tried FFIV, but it just didn't grab me. Try it out as F2P before spending any money.

 

But I'm not really concerned because I don't think that 7.0 is going to "fail hard".

Edited November 12, 2021 by JediQuaker

[TheVoyant]

So ive been hearing good things about FF14 and prolly this is where I'll go. A question...to whoever plays it or have played it. Is the story somehow linked to raids....i hate story being gatekeeped behing group content. I have no patience for group content anymore, because of work, no longer a teenager.

 

Yeah the first story is locked behind a miserable pair of 24 man raids. I enjoyed the gameplay up until that, even though the story was horrid and the quests are the worst I've had to suffer thru.

 

But their classes/combat/UI all great. Their PvP is well balanced. Unfortunately the game is boring AF storywise and its literally fetch a squirrel quests non-stop. Like watching an episode of your favorite TV show that doesn't move the overall plot at all. Though some people really like it, mostly former WoW players from what I've seen. I love FF but FF14 was the first one I quit bc of the story.

 

But yeah just those two 24 man raids and they were downright miserable.

[turbomagnus]

Yeah the first story is locked behind a miserable pair of 24 man raids. I enjoyed the gameplay up until that, even though the story was horrid and the quests are the worst I've had to suffer thru.

 

Ugh. That is bad. I know some people will immediately jump on the 'Massively MULTIPLAYER Online' part of MMO whenever someone says this, but I don't really like group content personally - especially forced group content and random groups.* Group content always seems like it either has to be scheduled among friends for when everyone can do it or a roll of the dice among a random group and hope it turns out half-way decent. More of the time, I prefer to just play solo so I can play at my own pace and schedule and have fun with it. Maybe it means I can't do the hardest content or get the best gear, but that's fine with me. It's bad enough that SWTOR has missions like "Shroud's Last Stand" that are group locked because four buttons have to be pressed, I can't... make that don't want to... imagine actually being locked out of most of a game because of group content...

 

Although, looking back, I can see the pattern develop; FFXIII had a storyline, then a sandbox that opened after beating the final boss... except as part of that, unlike previous FF games where you could max out your characters before facing the final boss, XIII locked out the last few grids of advancement until the sandbox opened... So I can almost see where that would evolve into XIV locking things behind group content...

 

 

*I blame World of Tanks for souring me on group play. IMHO, no matter how bad SWTOR or STO's players get at times, they can never be quite as toxic as WOT players seem to be... Not to say that most WOT players are toxic, but those that are color the game in my memories.

 

[Pirana]

Ugh. That is bad. I know some people will immediately jump on the 'Massively MULTIPLAYER Online' part of MMO whenever someone says this, but I don't really like group content personally - especially forced group content and random groups.

 

Look at it from this perspective. If you're playing this game, TOR, and you're going through your storyline, then you have to run a Flashpoint, then at some point, you have to run an Operation to progress, and unless you beat those, you cannot progress your own storyline, at all. At least with this game FP's and Ops are optional, in 14, dungeons and raids are not optional while leveling. Now imagine being a DPS in 14, those queues aren't any different there, DPS are still the most played.

 

Personally, there wasn't any one thing that ultimately made me walk away from that game, it was a number of things, a few notables:

 

*2.5 GCD while leveling, which made leveling the worst experience I've had in any game.

*Too much story, more than this game if you can believe that, and the bulk of it is not voiced over, unlike here.

*Forced dungeons and raids,

*Not alt friendly at all, you can't mail items or Gil (currency) to alts on your own account if you decide to create one. You can play every job (class) on one alt, but leveling those jobs are a grind. Palace of the Dead is your go-to for grinding jobs.

 

There are good things about the game too:

*Character customization is one of the best out there.

*Tab targeting.

*Glam system is good, once you understand it. (appearance)

*Combat is done extremely well.

*The world in spectacular looking.

*The threat the tanks have is second to none. You don't need taunts at all. They're there if you do need one though.

 

So, I always suggest to people, do some research on the game first, or run their FTP model, which is A Realm Reborn, essentially all the way up until their first expansion.

[MystyqeofXev]

*2.5 GCD while leveling, which made leveling the worst experience I've had in any game.

 

That is insane.

[casirabit]

SWG

 

https://swglegends.com/

[Pirana]

It does get better as you level, for instance, if you're playing a Lancer > Dragoon, a melee class, which I've linked below, your rotation doesn't start to really click until around level 40-50, which around that point, you start getting instant abilities that can be weaved in between the GCD abilities. At end game, it's not bad at all. Upon beginning the game though, the 2.5 GCD is universal for all classes.

 

https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Global_Cool_Down

Edited November 13, 2021 by Pirana

[Pirana]

SWG

 

https://swglegends.com/

 

I'd give you a 'like', but it doesn't exist here, but that's exactly what I started playing again. Dated game, but still a blast.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Pirana

[ExarSun]

Yeah i will probably go try SWG someplace then while waiting for the new open world rpg Star Wars game in the making.

[UmbralSpirit]

SWG

 

https://swglegends.com/

 

 

Ewww, an NGE server, gross.

[arunav]

I don't think it's going to die, but based on everything they've announced so far, my engagement will be significantly lower.

 

I don't either, but you can also ask the question who SWTOR might die for instead. The changes to combat AND gearing AND leveling at once may be too much for longtime players to accept.

 

There's been plenty of updates to SWTOR, both good and bad, single player and group, QoL improvements or design philosophy/direction changes, but no update has ever changed so much about the game all at once. We can't know from the outside, but it also seems like the same small team is making those unprecedented changes, which doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the short term.

 

I'll withhold judgement until 7.0 is launched, but right now the PTS feels like the end of the version of the game folks started with at 1.0.

 

I also think many of these changes might be in preparation of launching SWTOR on a non-PC platform for the first time. A recent character creation screenshot on Reddit certainly doesn't appear to be designed for a mouse and keyboard.

 

After 10 years, I won't lie by saying it isn't disappointing. But SWTOR hasn't been staying afloat by making quality game updates for years now, with the balance between game content and selling CCs shifting very significantly toward the latter in more recent years.

 

Onslaught and the Ossus update before it brought back some hope the game was going back to its pre-4.0 days, at least for non-Ops PVE content, but 7.0 appears to be going in another direction.

 

Again, we'll see what 7.x really ends up being. After launch, I think BW will be adapting and changing a lot in the first few months of 2022 based on feedback from live players and folks unsubscribing.

 

My likely plan, something I've never done in a previous expansion cycle, is to simply play the new story and unsubscribe. I would have liked to experience the new Operation in SM at least, but it won't be ready.

 

In any case, I have no idea what other game to play. This has been my primary video game for a very long time. I spend the rest of my time outside of the office recording music in what's turned into a decent home studio. It's in some ways a much better use of time, certainly more satisfying personally, so I'll probably work on music more.

 

GSF is enjoyable in SWTOR, and I might give Squadrons a try at some point. If there's a quality MMO out there for someone a bit older that can no longer put up with joining a formal raiding group but doesn't mind doing some group content occasionally (something SWTOR was great for before 7.0's gearing system was announced), I'd maybe try that out.

 

But playing and recording more music is probably a better use of time, for my particular circumstances.

 

My suggestion? Pick up an instrument!

Edited November 16, 2021 by arunav

[ralphieceaser]

tried FFXIV (does a lot of things better, initial story is not one of them)

 

I would honestly say FF14 has the deeper and more interesting story than any mmorpg out there, might have something to do with Japanese games focusing on a lot more deep subjects compared to the average western game.

The first xpac is the typical world building stuff so it is definitely quite boring, only gets interesting near the end, after that story improves with heavensward onwards and with shadowbringers honestly being the best story I ve ever seen in quite a while in video games.

 

Characters are really deep and interesting, usually the enemies though since your companions are the typical goody 2 shoes and they really have made some characters very compelling and interesting even within one expansion.

 

My main issues with ff14 was mainly the complete lack of utility, dcds and control when it came to dps, you might have a ton of buttons but all of them are simply part of a long rotation, it is far too railroaded, even dungeons are boring tank and spank, everything was designed and controlled by the devs so you dont have the freedom to approach a situation in different ways like in swtor

Edited November 17, 2021 by ralphieceaser

[Dareel]

It'll be a long read, but could have some useful info inside.

 

This July-August we (me and a few friends) where looking for a MMO to go full-in into. Life changes, there is no more time or dedication to play Eve Online or Elite Dangerous the way we would want to play these games. WoW was out of the picture years ago, way too many hopes was spend on that game, from expansion to expansion more and more Hamsterwheels BS, less and less fun game-play. ESO and GW2 weren't something enjoyable for me (controls, responsiveness, lack of classes I would really wanted to play, more like classes in them were not fun to play for me, etc). Albion Online after Eve Online is just no. BDO and other less popular MMOs became not an option not long after launch of each of them. Going back to something really old like Ultima Online, Anarchy Online, OSRS doesn't look like fun since most of nostalgia already evaporated.

 

We are almost exclusively MMO players for the last 15-20 years, going for Single-player or Coop games wasn't something any of us would like to do. We have Chess for that with occasional Among Us, that's enough.

 

One thing tho - I don't like F2P games, subscription and B2P are my thing, because money is something with a possibility to earn more if I overspend, time is something I can't get back, it's better to spend it on something good. My friends share this point of view, so all F2P MMOs weren't considered, with exception of Lost Arc and couple of Private Servers below.

 

The options left were:

- SWG Emu / Legends (just a good game + Star Wars)

- Return of Reckoning (good game, decent PvP, Warhammer Online private server)

- SWTOR (Star Wars + some nostalgia from playing beta/launch..., Good story, lots of missed content over the years, decent PvP, some chances for OK WPvP)

- FFXIV (Some of us played it for a short time here and there, some nostalgia for FF games, great game-play systems, great story after initial slug)

 

We'd started with SWG Legends. Great game, was very interesting to get into especially since we'd missed it when it was live. But it was impossible for me to play it for long - controls were killing me. We tried different settings and mods combinations, nothing really worked to make it enjoyable, and so it was off.

 

Next was Warhammer. Decent game, decent PvP, but way too edgy in style and classes, very poor FX (even for it's time), not very enjoyable to press those buttons. It was perceived better when it was live, today - wasn't anybody's cup of tea.

 

We were left with FFXIV or SWTOR.

 

All of us were OK with initial slug through ARR, we knew that slow GCD combat is only at the start and then it's quite fast with off-GCD weaving in between. Plus responsiveness and fluidity is top notch so it's enjoyable to press those buttons. Game-play systems are very good. Nothing like Hamsterwheels "Do your chores that we told you to do and repeat as much as we tell you to" of WoW. Game itself and Devs almost scream - play it for fun. How story sometimes delves into quite deep subjects was very interesting.

 

But. Over the top FX and lack of any even semi-decent PvP was a huge turn off. Mimimi of majority of the game needed some time to get used to.

 

Off we go to SWTOR.

 

Being SW fans, with hype from shows/series, with a smidge of nostalgia from beta/launch times - we immediately felt like home. Something that looked like tons of content to play through, leveling was way too fast, but at max level it became clear that we can play the game anyway that we wanted to and still progress with power of our characters - it was a blast! We were running FPs, OPs, PvP, playing Space Barbie & Space Homes decorator. Fun!

 

Then some of us became weary with the amount of bugs, to the point of - "I don't want to pay for a product that throws minimum 1 bug at me every 15 minutes, no matter what I do, even sorting on GTN can't work reliably and I have to re-click different options, some of the bugs I remember from launch, it's frustrating to say the least". And it got really bad when a few Market items were purchased with money, without prior research for bugs (because who would think that something you buy for extra money to get extra fun could bring extra bugs instead). Then research into bugs situation happened, results were not good - almost all guides for different things in SWTOR have a section with bugs, almost all bugs never get fixed even for Market items, etc. If developer has little to none quality control for it's main money maker system in game it usually doesn't mean anything good for the future.

 

Divide happened. After first examples of how abilities pruning was going to be in 7.0 it became clear that it won't even be the way WoW did it. In WoW with pruning players got options of how to set up a spec that it plays differently. Each spec could have 2-3 quite different single target rotations, 1-2 AoE, and from that there were many options for PvP. So while players lost a lot they also got something. Still remember how good it was to play my Arcane Mage in MoP, golden age of arcane. In what SWTOR is doing in 7.0 - some abilities removed, some put in one or the other options, no customization added, still exactly the same 1 rotation.

 

One by one my friends left. I was having lots of fun with freedom to play the game how I wanted to play every time I logged in - this way of playing was still fun enough to not bother too much with bugs fiesta and microtransactions galore. Plus there was a shred of hope for better changes since it was only a start of PTS and things could've changed for the better (WoW development hopes & letdowns flashbacks intensify).

 

My friends went to FFXIV, we were waiting for New World and I was trying to get them back to SWTOR with stories how cool something was, how great was that WPvP event I was in, etc, while fighting off jokes like "How many bugs were today? Did you pay extra for some of them? How's game future looking...".

 

Then mix of thing happened. New World went as expected, fun for 20-30 levels, then not good enough as PvP and very bad as PvE. Maybe check back on it in a year. I finally got my friends to consider going back to SWTOR, because fun and... Star Wars, but itemization and curated content were revealed. Everybody instantly new that Hamsterwheels found their way to SWTOR. Some time later it became clear that this game-design approach is here to stay, and with this any desire to login evaporated.

 

I stopped playing SWTOR, everything even somewhat useful was donated to the guild, sub is still running only because I wanted to take part in 10 year celebration and spend all CCs, but chances of that happening going slimmer by the day.

 

We all playing FFXIV. Decided that out of all it is the game to invest our time in. Endwalker expansion looks even better. No Hamsterwheels is a huge plus, and in first patch there will be a big update and changes for PvP that look very promising. Lost Arc could be interesting, as a PvP MMO it's good. Point and click to control a ship is one thing, but with a character I prefer direct control - maybe as a side game from time to time, nothing more.

 

So with this, I recommend to do a research and make a list of MMOs that have even a chance to be interesting for you, since we are all different with different tastes and likes, and once you have it - go through that list to have your own understanding of what you think/like/don't about any of them. Yes, it would require some time investment, but it'll also give you data from your own experience and show what each game has to offer for you.

 

If you was able to associate with anything in this rant - I hope it was helpful in some way.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Dareel

[Spikanor]

if 7.0 fails hard still after 2 month's delay's.

then i go think play more on the xbox and play more halo infinite and some switch game's.

and there is also the option to play some old retro game's on my pc like C&C Generals Zero Hour

[xordevoreaux]

Same things I play now when I'm not feeling Star-warsy. Sims 4 and Skyrim. Bejeweled 3 when I want to vegetate.