Something has to be done about rampant toxicity in Ranked

[NmLs]

I know this seems like a minor issue, but I think one of the main reasons new ranked players get discouraged and stop playing is the sheer amount of insults and harassment that goes on in ranked.

Anectodally speaking, I'd say in well over 50% of the matches, there is always someone verbally attacking someone else, be it over them being new, or because of their performance in a previous match, or simply because they're not playing the right spec. I've seen people get insulted over the fact they were queuing with assassins (the guy said "why are you queuing as sins into healer/tank games", to put it lightly).

I feel like, those people only behave this way, because they know they will remain unpunished no matter how atrocious their behavior is. I wish there was a better reporting system or some other kind of incentive for them to be polite. I also wish, they'd realize that politely teaching people how to play better is a more productive option than to try and ruin their mood with slurs.

What is your opinion on the issue? Is there a potential good way to punish toxicity and reward good behavior that the devs could implement?

[CheesyEZ]

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Anectodally speaking, I'd say in well over 50% of the matches, there is always someone verbally attacking someone else, be it over them being new, or because of their performance in a previous match, or simply because they're not playing the right spec. I've seen people get insulted over the fact they were queuing with assassins (the guy said "why are you queuing as sins into healer/tank games", to put it lightly).

anecdotally speaking, I'd say well over 50% of all reg WZs and arenas, there is always someone verbally attacking someone else or the entire team, be it over their use of dots, losing a match, breaking CC, or simply because they're playing a broken spec.

 

I haven't played ranked since I left the game in s11. I only know this b/c s11 rewards greeted me upon my return this spring. But I can tell you that regs on SF are far worse than ranked ever was in s1-11, between the maps being completely broken by current class abilities, class stacking, desync, and huge swathes of players simply ignoring the win condition of the various maps...and of course that try hard "I can't believe I'm losing. You guys are terrible. Delete your account!" whining. There was a jugg tank, full on tank gear, just sitting at nodes waiting for the other team to clear it so he could stall it with his slew of dcds, EDs, grit teeth, etc. and he's super serious about it. like...I got on his team and he'd just rrrrage whenever he was on the losing team. there was always someone or the whole team to be the focus of his ire. meanwhile, i'm looking at him and thinking..."dude. you spec'd yourself out to be literally the most annoying, try hard, junk tank you could be just to win a match in which half of any given team is even trying, and that half is mostly incompetent. you're tossing these try hard nades left and right (wut? not enough CC on a jugg tank?). and you're still raging." it's comical. I actually dotted up someone he wanted to CC just to enjoy the show in ops chat.

 

I'd say the biggest difference is that in regs, the players throwing a tantrum is actually funny. Like...if you don't see it as a 3-year old throwing a tantrum...iunno. It's all I see (but then, most of my friends have 3-year olds these days, so I guess I'm highly attuned to it?). The best part is watching some challenge accepted dude unleash an ocean of rage at everyone on his pug arena team b/c they don't respond the way you'd expect seasoned ranked players to against a trinity premade in a match that still managed to go 3 rounds. priceless!

Edited August 17, 2021 by CheesyEZ

[DavidAtkinson]

nothing can be done about toxicity in ranked.

 

it's something you have to deal with and swallow . If you are new and make mistakes, do your best to improve. I returned to ranked after a break from the game and I am playing every night on |DM and I haven't seen anything that is " too toxic" except the usual spits and some minor verbal stuff...

 

It was 20 times worse in previous seasons . Its fine now. at least from my point of view.

 

If you are decent and try and don't die in 1.5 seconds, no one is going to say anything .

[Enticy]

Toxicity in online games period will never die. The only practical solution is if the devs instituted a straight-up zero tolerance policy, i.e., banned on the first infraction. No second chances, no warnings, just bans as far as the eye can see. However, enforcing that will require more oversight on chat logs as well as sifting through the mountain of tickets submitted to CS, and those things aren’t going to happen.

 

It’s best to just ignore it. Do your best, and try to enjoy the game. Turn off your chat if you have to. Most solo ranked teams don’t even communicate properly, anyway.

[juanmiranda]

I know this seems like a minor issue, but I think one of the main reasons new ranked players get discouraged and stop playing is the sheer amount of insults and harassment that goes on in ranked.

Anectodally speaking, I'd say in well over 50% of the matches, there is always someone verbally attacking someone else, be it over them being new, or because of their performance in a previous match, or simply because they're not playing the right spec. I've seen people get insulted over the fact they were queuing with assassins (the guy said "why are you queuing as sins into healer/tank games", to put it lightly).

I feel like, those people only behave this way, because they know they will remain unpunished no matter how atrocious their behavior is. I wish there was a better reporting system or some other kind of incentive for them to be polite. I also wish, they'd realize that politely teaching people how to play better is a more productive option than to try and ruin their mood with slurs.

What is your opinion on the issue? Is there a potential good way to punish toxicity and reward good behavior that the devs could implement?

 

Maybe it has something to do with the way devs implementing rating in a game with no balance or matchmaking whatsoever. Win 1 game get 12-17. Lose the next game because you had a new player running dps jugg with the "higher focus" tactical because he doesn't even know how to play jugg dps in regs then you lose 17+ and are in a worse spot then you were before. Keep that in mind that sometimes the queue takes over 10 minutes to pop then a game is 10-15 then you just spend almost 45 minutes in the same spot that you were when you logged in. Then you feel like logging out to play a good game. Either way you are just adding to the neverending pile of whiner threads about meanies on your computer screen. Its just text on a screen. Grow a thick skin and ignore it. It also makes me wonder how many of these people queuing up to get globaled have ever queued to actually practice ranked in the 13 offseasons because it still pops and there is much less b****ing going on win or lose. I can tell you its probably none. They queue up for a few matches during the season, get globaled then get told to go away then they head straight to the forums to complain.

[NmLs]

Maybe it has something to do with the way devs implementing rating in a game with no balance or matchmaking whatsoever. Win 1 game get 12-17. Lose the next game because you had a new player running dps jugg with the "higher focus" tactical because he doesn't even know how to play jugg dps in regs then you lose 17+ and are in a worse spot then you were before. Keep that in mind that sometimes the queue takes over 10 minutes to pop then a game is 10-15 then you just spend almost 45 minutes in the same spot that you were when you logged in. Then you feel like logging out to play a good game.

I agree with all of this. I think the current ranked system doesn't necessarily fit with the kind of game this is. It was designed for a more ambitious and polished project. I think it would help if ranked became a bit more relaxed and casual, in terms of how the system itself works. Some people are ready to jump out of the window for those precious numbers.

 

 

 

Must be shocking for generation snowflake to step out of their safe space into the real life., where players use harsh language without the right pronounce .

Funny how you just assume all of this about me. I am fairly sure I am older than you, or maybe the same age.

[septru]

If you are decent and try and don't die in 1.5 seconds, no one is going to say anything.

 

This is what I have seen on SF. Can't say the same for SS since I don't play there. Might help if we knew what server the OP was from.

[NmLs]

This is what I have seen on SF. Can't say the same for SS since I don't play there. Might help if we knew what server the OP was from.

I'm on Darth Malgus.

[juanmiranda]

I agree with all of this. I think the current ranked system doesn't necessarily fit with the kind of game this is. It was designed for a more ambitious and polished project. I think it would help if ranked became a bit more relaxed and casual, in terms of how the system itself works. Some people are ready to jump out of the window for those precious numbers.

 

 

 

Funny how you just assume all of this about me. I am fairly sure I am older than you, or maybe the same age.

 

If this was a real competitive PVP game maybe I would consider jumping out of window but its not. Its a joke of a game and a joke of what it used to be. Imagine finishing a season with over 100 wins and not even getting bronze. Well that is how this current systems works. I went to go take a piss the other night and missed a pop/got a 15 minute lockout and lost over 20 rating lol...Yeah I know ur not supposed to leave while in queue but I was in queue for over 10 minutes so I figured I could go pee. The entire system needs to change tbh I don't really care if it does or not there is a few MMOs coming soon(ish) that I am going to swap this one out for because overall the game has just gotten boring. Regs is boring because you can't leave maps anymore that you don't want to play like poopball or poopergate or you are forced to take lockout then log out and go play a good game instead. Ranked only pops for a little while sometimes not at all then you are forced to then log out and go play a good game instead.

[CheesyEZ]

Imagine finishing a season with over 100 wins and not even getting bronze.

imagine queuing solo into a team game and getting upset when you have to carry (a) teammate(s).

 

solos are frustrating. but if you are not able to get bronze, it's most definitely not because you are unlucky and constantly saddled with the worst players. in fact, the better you are, the more often you find yourself saddled with the worst players. ask caprica about that life (lul). and yet he still pulls 1700, 1800, 1900, 2k rating...in solos...on a slinger. sorry bub, but if you cannot pull down bronze in solos, that's a you thing.

 

maybe you are on a dead server? however, it's the small servers where most of the crooked numbers appear on the leader boards. try DM or SF, but there's zero chance you could play (let alone win) over 100 games and be below bronze by accident.

 

I'm sure JMA would be happy to explain to you how while the system is very far from perfect, the ratings do generally reflect skill in one's ability to carry. although, in my experience, bronze is a de facto participation trophy. (that's what makes bronze flagging in regs so funny; although I'm opposed to their existence at all in that format). so iunno what you're doing.

 

100% agree that this game is not to be taken seriously. balance is bad (as in BW's attempts or lack thereof). the engine alone makes this game impossible to take seriously. Detora posted something about this a few months ago. He's a much better player than I, if that matters to you.

edit: found the post (gawd, I'm bored)...

??? Serious pvpers don't play SWTOR; regs have nothing to do with it. That isn't to say there aren't good players that continue to play (ofc there are), but this game is far too simplistic in class design, CC and interrupt mechanics, awful arena maps, etc... to be competitive. Not to mention the terrible game performance. It's designed for casual players. And that's cool; enjoy it for what it is.

 

I symphathize with your problems with reg map loops (that is really frustrating). not that the maps are really playable or the teams are properly balanced anyway (hard to do with so much class stacking and borked abilities).

 

losing rating because you went afk and didn't take yourself out of the queue is more funny than anything else. if you took it seriously, then you wouldn't have afk'd while in queue. and if you don't take it seriously, then why does it bother you? you've kinda put yourself in a box there.

 

bronze is the ultimate participation trophy. you basically get bronze by playing your first 10 matches.

Edited August 18, 2021 by CheesyEZ

[Gorekann]

The only thing I can say about this is:

https://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=984359

 

Read specifically this part:

"Reporting

 

As a member of the Fair Play Alliance, EA is committed to providing a safe space to play where all are welcome. As part of this, toxicity and harassment actions that the Customer Service team apply to folks violating the Terms of Service are being escalated to more severe actioning."

 

I quoted this to show you how Bioware lies to us everyday. This was on September...and everything is worse than ever: Toxicity, wintrade, cheat...Chris recognized, for example, on the theorycrafters discord that galactic seasons did not include ranked because the wintrade that was happening. And also, videos of a speedhackers that he saw, as well. And guess what, even when that has been happening for, at least, 6 months, NOTHING has been done.

Its hilarious that they said to us that breaking the ToS is being scalated to more severe actioning, and literally they are doing NOTHING.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Gorekann

[Templock]

Too bad there's no way to handpick your teammates. I guess there's no demand for that sort of thing.

[JediMasterAlex]

imagine queuing solo into a team game and getting upset when you have to carry (a) teammate(s).

 

Correct. Even some ranked veterans still haven't internalized this basic concept. Hence all the vote kick abuse a few seasons ago.

 

I'm sure JMA would be happy to explain to you how while the system is very far from perfect, the ratings do generally reflect skill in one's ability to carry. although, in my experience, bronze is a de facto participation trophy. (that's what makes bronze flagging in regs so funny; although I'm opposed to their existence at all in that format). so iunno what you're doing.

 

There are players that try their best and still end up below bronze. It's usually because they played quite badly to start the season and end up at say 1000, and even if they improve a lot over the course of a season, they don't necessarily improve enough to climb 250 elo. Also, some people like playing off meta specs and aren't very good at them, etc. But generally yes, if you have any idea what you're doing on a given class, you should probably get bronze.

 

100% agree that this game is not to be taken seriously. balance is bad (as in BW's attempts or lack thereof). the engine alone makes this game impossible to take seriously. Detora posted something about this a few months ago. He's a much better player than I, if that matters to you.

edit: found the post (gawd, I'm bored)...

 

It's all relative. Obviously this game is a joke compared to games with much larger populations and much more active developer support, not to mention e-sports leagues, etc.

 

But, within the context of this game, solo ranked is essentially all there is. Group ranked has had only a handful of teams that compete by appointment for the last few seasons. While the level of play in those matches is certainly much higher than the average solo ranked match, the game mode itself is still as dead as a doornail.

 

For all its flaws, solo ranked is still fun and competitive most of the time. The matchmaking can be improved upon, and Bioware absolutely needs to start banning wintraders again. But for the most part, solo ranked is the same as it has always been, and always will be.

[NmLs]

There are players that try their best and still end up below bronze. It's usually because they played quite badly to start the season and end up at say 1000, and even if they improve a lot over the course of a season, they don't necessarily improve enough to climb 250 elo. Also, some people like playing off meta specs and aren't very good at them, etc. But generally yes, if you have any idea what you're doing on a given class, you should probably get bronze.

I can confirm this. I hadn't played much ranked for a while before starting out in this season and my first 10 games were abysmal. After that, I finally got everything together and figured out again how to be useful, so now I'm sitting at a basically 50% winrate on 1100 rating, never dropping, but never climbing either, after about 300 matches.

Then I made another character of the same exact class, with the same exact utilities and everything, and passed the gear onto it, and made it to bronze after around 40 matches. That character is also sitting at a 50% winrate now, but in bronze, at around 1230.

I think, those very first matches you do on a character matter way too much.

[CheesyEZ]

It's not a bad idea at all dip your foot into ranked with a throwaway character, and then once you've learned the ropes, roll a new character of the same class and spec. I know I've done that. But if we're being realistic here, why would you expect your first foray into ranked to get a reward?

 

I've never breathed the air of 1500+ rating at least not since the days of PT pyro spec. So I live in the range of 1200 to 1500. In that range going at a 50% ratio wins to losses does nothing whatsoever to gain rating. I wouldn't gain rating if I were 1000 at 50% wins and I wouldn't gain rating at 1450 if I were at 50% wins. 50% is, at best treading water. At least if you're swimming in the waters of 1200 to 1500.

 

In my experience, again it's been a couple of seasons, if you win at the ratio of two to one then you're easily going to earn bronze no matter how low your ELO is coming out of the first 10 games. If you win at 3:1 I guarantee you will find yourself in Gold by the end of the season if you have played enough to earn 100 wins.

[NmLs]

It's not a bad idea at all dip your foot into ranked with a throwaway character, and then once you've learned the ropes, roll a new character of the same class and spec. I know I've done that. But if we're being realistic here, why would you expect your first foray into ranked to get a reward?

Thing is, I don't really care about the rating. I just like the challenge that ranked provides, I like getting better at the game, and I like the rewards. Of course, it would be nice if I got silver or higher, but that's not my priority.

[WizardGR]

Toxicity is everywhere.

 

Every time you see it, think it as a full time job. People are getting paid to act and speak like that.

Who is paying them or why, this is another mystery for another time.

But think, what people do for living. So every time you see it, someone is doing his job.

 

If you can not ignore them, chat with them. At the end of the char, some people will get paid.

You need a skill to do that. Not everyone can do that. (as all jobs)

[CheesyEZ]

Thing is, I don't really care about the rating. I just like the challenge that ranked provides, I like getting better at the game, and I like the rewards. Of course, it would be nice if I got silver or higher, but that's not my priority.

 

aye. but I was responding the the turn in the conversation from toxicity to what it takes to get the various ranks. the first 10 have always counted too strongly. I don't think anyone disagrees on that.

 

in truth, the first 10 should just be used to place you in every later match but the actual ranked ELO assigned from them shouldn't count at all. it should literally just be used for placement on teams in matches 11+ (like the "hidden ELO" in regs).

 

that said, winning 50% of the time is pretty much the definition of treading water in any sport, and will, in fact, see you fall further down the standings in most (regardless of the ELO makeup of yours and the opponents' teams). I imagine it might slowly increase your rating if you're in the 600-800 range, but players that low are usually in way over their head or troll toons anyway (like someone who only joins a WZ or GSF for the GS participation reward).

[septru]

I can confirm this. I hadn't played much ranked for a while before starting out in this season and my first 10 games were abysmal. After that, I finally got everything together and figured out again how to be useful, so now I'm sitting at a basically 50% winrate on 1100 rating, never dropping, but never climbing either, after about 300 matches.

Then I made another character of the same exact class, with the same exact utilities and everything, and passed the gear onto it, and made it to bronze after around 40 matches. That character is also sitting at a 50% winrate now, but in bronze, at around 1230.

I think, those very first matches you do on a character matter way too much.

 

If this is your first season in ranked, don't spend too much time looking at your rating. Que as much as you can to just learn the meta, game mode, strategies, communication, matchmaking.. etc. Most players don't get higher than silver their first season, so don't worry too much about the rating. Also look to experiment with other classes.

 

If you have just been playing one class, start practicing on a completely different one. This will help you learn how other people play their classes in solo ranked and help you take advantage of other classes weaknesses and strengths.

 

After your first season, you will start having a much easier time climbing. I suggest if you are serious about rating, to try to climb at the beginning or first couple months of the season. Grinding rating in the middle of the season is extremely challenging for a variety of reasons, highlighted by the fact that there are just less players in que.

[DavidAtkinson]

aye. but I was responding the the turn in the conversation from toxicity to what it takes to get the various ranks. the first 10 have always counted too strongly. I don't think anyone disagrees on that.

 

in truth, the first 10 should just be used to place you in every later match but the actual ranked ELO assigned from them shouldn't count at all. it should literally just be used for placement on teams in matches 11+ (like the "hidden ELO" in regs).

 

that said, winning 50% of the time is pretty much the definition of treading water in any sport, and will, in fact, see you fall further down the standings in most (regardless of the ELO makeup of yours and the opponents' teams). I imagine it might slowly increase your rating if you're in the 600-800 range, but players that low are usually in way over their head or troll toons anyway (like someone who only joins a WZ or GSF for the GS participation reward).

 

Since ranked is more or less the same since season 1, I doubt we will see any change to it.... I always find threads about ranked problems totally pointless because : they can't stop people cheating, wintrading, they can't stop toxicity , they won't fix class stacking, they won't change the ELO system ever because it's easier and cheaper to have it like this, they won't change the importance of first 10 games , in short, they won't do anything. ONLY minor changes .

 

It is always the same people that get the top spots and top rewards every season . So I don't know why the rest are unable to do so, despite trying . Regardless , it's fun , sometimes thrilling and is the only viable form of PVP this game can offer. Regs is just a joke ... you know that when have 10 solo kills after a match. It's not fun to play with people like that. You'd rather get globalled in ranked.

[TrixxieTriss]

Since ranked is more or less the same since season 1, I doubt we will see any change to it.... I always find threads about ranked problems totally pointless because : they can't stop people cheating, wintrading, they can't stop toxicity , they won't fix class stacking, they won't change the ELO system ever because it's easier and cheaper to have it like this, they won't change the importance of first 10 games , in short, they won't do anything. ONLY minor changes .

 

It is always the same people that get the top spots and top rewards every season . So I don't know why the rest are unable to do so, despite trying . Regardless , it's fun , sometimes thrilling and is the only viable form of PVP this game can offer. Regs is just a joke ... you know that when have 10 solo kills after a match. It's not fun to play with people like that. You'd rather get globalled in ranked.

 

That’s a bit of a cop out excuse to say they can’t stop xyz. Why let them off the hook with this?

 

Of course they can stop it if they want to put the time, money and effort into it. Which they don’t.

 

A better way to put it is BioWare don’t care enough to stop it or they would.

[DavidAtkinson]

That’s a bit of a cop out excuse to say they can’t stop xyz. Why let them off the hook with this?

 

Of course they can stop it if they want to put the time, money and effort into it. Which they don’t.

 

A better way to put it is BioWare don’t care enough to stop it or they would.

 

I doubt you as a developer would spend resources on policing your own game... That's what I meant. They have limited budget as it is , I think , so they'd rather focus on aspects of the game that lots of players play. And we all know that is not ranked.

 

The " they don't care" part is probably right , but if ranked made them more $$$$, they would absolutely, totally focus on it more. And not just ranked. PVP in general.

[TrixxieTriss]

I doubt you as a developer would spend resources on policing your own game... That's what I meant. They have limited budget as it is , I think , so they'd rather focus on aspects of the game that lots of players play. And we all know that is not ranked.

 

The " they don't care" part is probably right , but if ranked made them more $$$$, they would absolutely, totally focus on it more. And not just ranked. PVP in general.

 

I recently read an industry article that also said that sort of notion was a cop out too. Of course they used WoWs community toxicity as an example compared to FFXIV which has very little community toxicity. But the same things FFXIV did to foster a good community could have been done here.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2021-08-12-ffxiv-shows-a-toxic-community-isnt-an-inevitability-opinion

Have a read. You might find it interesting

Edited August 22, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Gorekann]

I doubt you as a developer would spend resources on policing your own game... That's what I meant. They have limited budget as it is , I think , so they'd rather focus on aspects of the game that lots of players play. And we all know that is not ranked.

 

The " they don't care" part is probably right , but if ranked made them more $$$$, they would absolutely, totally focus on it more. And not just ranked. PVP in general.

 

I would be like "cool" with what you think, except that If thats why they dont ban wintraders/cheaters, just remove the mode. Although, I think specially the "cheating" aspect of this game could be in regs as well, and they wouldnt care anyway. Like I said before in this topic, a known speedhacker is around, even when the devs watched his videos. And the person is around, playing ranked like nothing is happening, and also regs.

I personally think that is more the people they lose cause the lack of actions and attention than the small group of cheaters/wintraders that have been around forever, buying new accounts, coming back to the game and doing exactly the same for what they were banned.

 

In the end, is bad publicity for the company to tolerate this behavior and not "policing" their own terms of service.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Gorekann

[TrixxieTriss]

I would be like "cool" with what you think, except that If thats why they dont ban wintraders/cheaters, just remove the mode. Although, I think specially the "cheating" aspect of this game could be in regs as well, and they wouldnt care anyway. Like I said before in this topic, a known speedhacker is around, even when the devs watched his videos. And the person is around, playing ranked like nothing is happening, and also regs.

I personally think that is more the people they lose cause the lack of actions and attention than the small group of cheaters/wintraders that have been around forever, buying new accounts, coming back to the game and doing exactly the same for what they were banned.

 

In the end, is bad publicity for the company to tolerate this behavior and not "policing" their own terms of service.

 

Yeah, I’ve seen the recent speed hack videos too. Have you seen the guys who are floor and wall hacking. There’s a video of one of them even doing it in a pve flash point last week.

Edited August 22, 2021 by TrixxieTriss