So no more Kai in 7.0?

[merovejec]

At the moment the only way to get the gear sets for the gear achievements is by either doing Dxun NiM over and over or, if you cannot raid you farm fragments and buy the Unique Items from Kai. Both methods take very long and the second one even longer than the first.

 

So in 7.0 the second option wont be available anymore? It is hell anyway, why even remove it? Devs already made it hard by fixing the resell time and then they take it away completely? How should a person complete these when he is not raiding?

[TrixxieTriss]

At the moment the only way to get the gear sets for the gear achievements is by either doing Dxun NiM over and over or, if you cannot raid you farm fragments and buy the Unique Items from Kai. Both methods take very long and the second one even longer than the first.

 

So in 7.0 the second option wont be available anymore? It is hell anyway, why even remove it? Devs already made it hard by fixing the resell time and then they take it away completely? How should a person complete these when he is not raiding?

 

How do you know he’s being taken away? I can’t find anything official or unofficial besides this post.

[Sareeph]

Actually, this thread does bring one thing forward that no one seems to have given much thought over. Gear acquisition. 3.x had one form of gearing system. 4.x had another form which some considered to be the best. 5.x a totally different system that caused much angst and anger. And then again in 6.x another gearing system not without it's own hiccup's. Literally half the games life has seen changes to gearing with each new X-pac. Maybe we could get a little insight in to what 7.x holds for us concerning this aspect of the player experience.

[BRKMSN]

Assuming the gear acquisition stays pretty much the same as it currently is, the new level cap will render the old gear useless. I'm not sure just how much change is coming with abilities / utilities / loadouts ... but the current BiS gear will surely be made obsolete by the redesign / rebalance of classes alone. So probably only the craftable sets will still be obtainable in the game.

 

In other words, if you want the achievements, you'd better get busy while you still have time. What will probably happen is people will gripe once the items can't be acquired from game content and they'll simply remove the points assigned to the achievements so people can still feel like they did everything (even though they'll always know they really didn't ... but hey, those who did can no longer be recognized for their hard work, so everybody is equal! We all win. We all pass. We all drive the same speeder. Life is grand! )

[TrixxieTriss]

I’m not sure it will make current BiS sets obsolete. But the stats will obviously need to be increased, so the new gearing regime might be about obtaining the armoring, mods and enhancements. While also having some newer sets thrown into the mix. That way new players will still be collecting the current gear shells. Remember a lot of the current BiS sets are still locked behind operations and people are still trying to get them from Kai Lotto rolls.

[BRKMSN]

I’m not sure it will make current BiS sets obsolete. But the stats will obviously need to be increased, so the new gearing regime might be about obtaining the armoring, mods and enhancements. While also having some newer sets thrown into the mix. That way new players will still be collecting the current gear shells. Remember a lot of the current BiS sets are still locked behind operations and people are still trying to get them from Kai Lotto rolls.

 

Well the current BiS gear requires level 75. The new end-gear will require level 80. I don't really see how they can roll out a level increase and keep allowing us to be "almost there" with our BiS sets from the beginning. Of course, I'm purely speculating. When you combine the challenge of keeping the old BiS shells "level relevant" with any new redesign of the combat system (where they have already stated they want to revamp abilities by combining some and removing some), some sets will lose what they were designed to do. Then we still don't know how the loadouts will work (do we need different sets for each or will they become more generic like the temp ability that allows you to spam 1 ability for a duration? IDK what all to expect yet.

Edited July 25, 2021 by BRKMSN

[TrixxieTriss]

Well the current BiS gear requires level 75. The new end-gear will require level 80. I don't really see how they can roll out a level increase and keep allowing us to be "almost there" with our BiS sets from the beginning. Of course, I'm purely speculating. When you combine the challenge of keeping the old BiS shells "level relevant" with any new redesign of the combat system (where they have already stated they want to revamp abilities by combining some and removing some), some sets will lose what they were designed to do. Then we still don't know how the loadouts will work (do we need different sets for each or will they become more generic like the temp ability that allows you to spam 1 ability for a duration? IDK what all to expect yet.

 

Yeah, it’s pure speculation on our behalf until we know more. But I could see players getting pretty upset if the current gear shells become irrelevant or lose too much BiS influence.

 

I’m still wondering where Mero got his initial post info from. He hasn’t bothered to answer.

Edited July 25, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Stellalunacat]

Yeah, it’s pure speculation on our behalf until we know more. But I could see players getting pretty upset if the current gear shells become irrelevant or lose too much BiS influence.

 

I’m still wondering where Mero got his initial post info from. He hasn’t bothered to answer.

 

That's how it usually goes though. New level cap and you pretty much can trash your old bis gear.

Everyone has to start grinding for gear again.

The old 258 set bonus gear, that used to be bis is pretty much useless now. They left it in game but you can't use it at max level, it even drops from fp now. lol

 

What they gonna do with gear in 7.0 is pure speculation at this point, but they probably want us to grind again in some way.

[Sareeph]

Yeah, it’s pure speculation on our behalf until we know more. But I could see players getting pretty upset if the current gear shells become irrelevant or lose too much BiS influence.

 

I’m still wondering where Mero got his initial post info from. He hasn’t bothered to answer.

 

Then again, this is what happened in the past. They introduced new shells with the same set bonus as a previous iteration and gave them a different visual.

 

** Stella beat me to it I see.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Sareeph

[phalczen]

Given that some of the Jedi Knight sets and tacticals were invalidated by the first "high-level" look at the Guardian combat style, I don't know what to expect. The best I can hope for is that the general structure stays the same, even if we have to grind for new iRating (which I completely expect)) and new horizontal progression as well.

 

Spoils of War was a pretty good system overall, even though the last few Dxun-specific sets can be challenging to obtain just from random Kai Zykken items. I know there are problems with the system, but Spoils of War was definitely an iterative improvement on the best parts of Galactic Command. For example, I love getting crates for doing stuff I regularly do, so the renown system overall as a general reward just for doing stuff, plus specific crates from other highlighted things, was a good move. Unassembled components becoming tech fragments and being even more plentiful, especially from deconstruction, was a great thing. Spoils of War having a loot drop system sensitive to current item rating level as well as what you already own was a big improvement that we've never had in our loot system.

 

I guess if I have to give up my current set boni/tacticals and tech fragment stash, but I get to keep the Spoils of War system, basically working the same and only improved upon, then I could live with that.

[TrixxieTriss]

Then again, this is what happened in the past. They introduced new shells with the same set bonus as a previous iteration and gave them a different visual.

 

** Stella beat me to it I see.

 

In the past the shells were directly linked to the internal Armoring piece that had the set bonus. Not the actual shells themselves which were “decorative” when empty.

These new shells have the bonus abilities directly linked to them regardless of lvl. So all you really need to grind is the new internals up to lvl 80. They don’t need to add new set bonus gear like they used to. That was the whole idea around horizontal gearing.

Edited July 25, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[arunav]

With how different class abilities will be, at least based on the most recent PTS, it's not likely a lot of the best set bonuses will still actually work.

 

On the other hand, designing new set bonuses probably isn't a simple, quick task either. Otherwise, I'd assume BW would have released a greater variety in past expansions before 6.0.

 

My best guess is these types of details are still being worked out. It doesn't seem like BW has come to final conclusions on what the new-old abilities will even be for each of the current in-game specs. Set bonuses would be designed around those final ability selections.

 

Perhaps there won't even be set bonuses! After all, that requires reading what a set bonus does, understanding what a set bonus is, and counting to 4 and 6.

Edited July 25, 2021 by arunav

[Sareeph]

In the past the shells were directly linked to the internal Armoring piece that had the set bonus. Not the actual shells themselves which were “decorative” when empty.

These new shells have the bonus abilities directly linked to them regardless of lvl. So all you really need to grind is the new internals up to lvl 80. They don’t need to add new set bonus gear like they used to. That was the whole idea around horizontal gearing.

 

They dropped set bonus on armoring's when we went past Rakatta. They brought it back with that 252/258 iteration which upset people.

[TrixxieTriss]

They dropped set bonus on armoring's when we went past Rakatta. They brought it back with that 252/258 iteration which upset people.

 

Mainly because they locked the whole internals to slots and you couldn’t min max properly

[phalczen]

In the past the shells were directly linked to the internal Armoring piece that had the set bonus. Not the actual shells themselves which were “decorative” when empty.

These new shells have the bonus abilities directly linked to them regardless of lvl. So all you really need to grind is the new internals up to lvl 80. They don’t need to add new set bonus gear like they used to. That was the whole idea around horizontal gearing.

 

Yes, this is completely true, unless of course they do something like they did at the beginning of 6.0 and make the set bonus, on the shells, only work for level 75-79.

 

So,

1) Set bonuses and tacticals will function in 7.0 exactly as they do now. This means you can just grind up the new iRating and replace the mods in the shells, but it also could mean some set bonuses won't work any more because skills have been pruned (Descent of the Fearless, for example.)

2) Set bonuses and tacticals that exist now will be converted into versions that only work from level 75-79. They may or may not be updated for pruned abilities.

3) Set bonuses and tacticals that exist now will be converted into versions that only work at level 80. Less likely, to be sure, but still a possibility. This may, or may not, include updating older set bonuses to work from 50-79, instead of 50-74 as they do now. Tacticals might be excluded since there currently exist, in the game, tacticals which can be used at low levels, like the Swoop Racing ones.

4) Continuing with the theme of horizontal progression, and the functionality of master mode Dxun sets, its possible that new sets and tacticals will be introduced that will enhance new 7.0 abilities (like DotF enhanced the new 6.0 ability), or address mechanics in the new operation, or address lost defensive cooldowns in the ability pruning, or something I haven't thought of.

 

Or any combination of the above. So, since there are so many possibilities, we are left with the same conclusion: we'll be lucky if the spoils of war system persists in some improved fashion come 7.0, so that we can buy the shells we need if we are unfortunate in getting them from the focused sources.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yes, this is completely true, unless of course they do something like they did at the beginning of 6.0 and make the set bonus, on the shells, only work for level 75-79.

 

So,

1) Set bonuses and tacticals will function in 7.0 exactly as they do now. This means you can just grind up the new iRating and replace the mods in the shells, but it also could mean some set bonuses won't work any more because skills have been pruned (Descent of the Fearless, for example.)

2) Set bonuses and tacticals that exist now will be converted into versions that only work from level 75-79. They may or may not be updated for pruned abilities.

3) Set bonuses and tacticals that exist now will be converted into versions that only work at level 80. Less likely, to be sure, but still a possibility. This may, or may not, include updating older set bonuses to work from 50-79, instead of 50-74 as they do now. Tacticals might be excluded since there currently exist, in the game, tacticals which can be used at low levels, like the Swoop Racing ones.

4) Continuing with the theme of horizontal progression, and the functionality of master mode Dxun sets, its possible that new sets and tacticals will be introduced that will enhance new 7.0 abilities (like DotF enhanced the new 6.0 ability), or address mechanics in the new operation, or address lost defensive cooldowns in the ability pruning, or something I haven't thought of.

 

Or any combination of the above. So, since there are so many possibilities, we are left with the same conclusion: we'll be lucky if the spoils of war system persists in some improved fashion come 7.0, so that we can buy the shells we need if we are unfortunate in getting them from the focused sources.

 

The other option is they switch to a different vendor system with less RNG and you grind out the best internals in content and buy the every day stuff from the vendors.

 

Honestly, I’m not sure how they will do it. They spent so much time promoting this horizontal gearing and grind with RNG that many people still aren’t fully BiS on all their main Alts.

 

Personally I’ve been trying to get enough r-19 Initiate enhancements for 3 of my sets and I’ve only had one drop in 5 months (that’s in content and at the vendor).

 

All I know is I’ve still not collected and geared all sets I want and I play 20-40 hours a week with a focus on conquest activities to gear up fastest. I will be extremely pissed off if those sets become obsolete after the stupid RNG grind. I’ve no problem with them keeping the horizontal gearing as long as it’s working on upgrading the internals and not replacing the sets themselves.

 

I’m sure I not alone in feeling that way.

Edited July 26, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[akdonkey]

I'm sick of gearing.... Leave the level cap alone for a while. There are many people who are not ready for this increase yet. Spirit of Vengence 2 is proof of that. Just like people crying about Raz Ordo not having the level 10 affection. There is another post for someone wanting to gear companions. Guess they weren't here back when you had to.

Back to Kai. It's been three weeks now with no Apex or Ranger gear on him. I recently learned about I could get those sets off him. I have never gotten into an Operation group that people just did not disband at the first sign of trouble. Let alone one that was a success.

Edited July 26, 2021 by akdonkey

[phalczen]

The other option is they switch to a different vendor system with less RNG and you grind out the best internals in content and buy the every day stuff from the vendors.

 

Honestly, I’m not sure how they will do it. They spent so much time promoting this horizontal gearing and grind with RNG that many people still aren’t fully BiS on all their main Alts.

 

Personally I’ve been trying to get enough r-19 Initiate enhancements for 3 of my sets and I’ve only had one drop in 5 months (that’s in content and at the vendor).

 

All I know is I’ve still not collected and geared all sets I want and I play 20-40 hours a week with a focus on conquest activities to gear up fastest. I will be extremely pissed off if those sets become obsolete after the stupid RNG grind. I’ve no problem with them keeping the horizontal gearing as long as it’s working on upgrading the internals and not replacing the sets themselves.

 

I’m sure I not alone in feeling that way.

 

I don't have all Lethal 80R-2's in my healer and dps sets either, but the upgrade from an R-3 to an R-2 or even an R-4 to an R-2, heck even an unlettered to an R-2, isn't much compared to augmenting. Even just upgrading from purple rating 228 level 70 augments to blue or purple level 75 augments is more impactful than having a non-R2 lethal mod. I find the material and credit grind to get the purple augments far worse than the grind to get sufficient number of Lethal R-2's or Initiative R-19s. For some classes, the grind to obtain the set shells is much harder ... Emergency Power is probably the most-cited example, but the other tanks aren't in much better shape.

 

I think we'd all be upset to re-grind shells, but honestly would you be any more upset than when 6.0 launched? Is that the hill you would choose to die on, rather than all the other things about Combat Styles we've seen thus far on PTS? I think I'd be more upset if the pathway to re-obtain those sets, or the new versions anyway, went away. At least we know now how the system works and how to maximize our tech fragment income. Especially how the duplication protection works and how we can use that to our advantage when gearing alts. Except for the tanks, all the classes can currently get their recommended sets from the static vendors, and the tanks can get their damage-increasing sets from the vendors. Conquest is flowing pretty easy now so its a great source for the BiS (for some classes) or just the tech frags. Much like the onderon and mek sha weeklies award great tech frags, I expect the new daily areas on the new planets to be similarly useful with whatever tech fragments morph into (with onderon and mek sha basically relegated to vanilla daily area status). These are features of the current Spoils of War that are beneficial and should be preserved in 7.0.

 

Should Kai have a larger stock so that he can cycle faster than every 52 weeks? Should Dxun-exclusive stuff (Nim or otherwise) be on the regular static vendors, on Kai, or both? Should the new Operation-exclusive stuff (any difficulty) be on static +/- Kai? I think those are fair questions and appropriate targets for revision in 7.0. But the core of the Spoils of War system works, and is rewarding for pretty much everyone (except crafters), and I'd rather have this pathway than alternatives which involve even more RNG, especially when it comes to looting in group content, or even outright inaccessibility (which was the case for endgame set bonuses prior to 4.0). I'll certainly be cheering if the sets and tacticals DO NOT go away (as long as they are updated for any pruned abilities), but as long as Spoils of War continues I'll be in a much better position gearing-wise than pre-6.0.