SWG and the CU / NGE apocalypse

[TrixxieTriss]

I don't think you'll see that significant of a drop-off in numbers just because of the changes to combat for SWTOR.

 

I think 7.0 will be like any other expansion. The numbers will shoot up when it releases then by a month or two later many will have either gotten through all the content or given up on whatever the current grind is and it'll just continue on the same as ever until the next update.

 

"But the numbers might fall off even lower than usual after a month or two." Sure, maybe but also think about how many MMOs have shut down in the last several years vs all the ones that are still going. Are Age of Conan or Champions Online's numbers popping off? No, so how is it that they're still around?

 

The number of active MMOs that are still out there leads me to believe that it's much harder for an MMO to die off completely than people think/assume.

 

Famous last words. Time will tell.

[ArrA]

Okay so why make another topic related to Combat Styles when there were already several active ones? It was like you didn't want your post to be one of many in another topic where it would get burried and went for the most attention-grabbing thing possible.

 

Because my topic is pointing out the mistake SWG made in changing their class makeup and combat styles. Not exactly sure why that's so hard for you to accept or grasp.

Edited July 26, 2021 by ArrA

[Darth-Obvious]

Because my topic is pointing out the mistake SWG made in changing their class makeup and combat styles.

 

And you're making the situation out to be that SWTOR is doing the same thing.

 

You're either just talking about SWG from a historic perspective which would mean it doesn't belong in this section or you're drawing a direct parallel between SWG and SWTOR suggesting that what SWTOR is doing is doom for the game as it was for SWG. There is no other option based on what you've said/done/shown/displayed.

 

It's very obvious what you're doing and everybody saw right through you. It's also very clear that you could have posted this in any one of the several topics about Combat Styles but thought your voice needed to be heard above all others and didn't want it buried in another topic.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Darth-Obvious

[TrixxieTriss]

And you're making the situation out to be that SWTOR is doing the same thing.

 

You're either just talking about SWG from a historic perspective which would mean it doesn't belong in this section or you're drawing a direct parallel between SWG and SWTOR suggesting that what SWTOR is doing is doom for the game as it was for SWG. There is no other option based on what you've said/done/shown/displayed.

 

It's very obvious what you're doing and everybody saw right through you. It's also very clear that you could have posted this in any one of the several topics about Combat Styles but thought your voice needed to be heard above all others and didn't want it buried in another topic.

 

The OP is obviously trying to draw a correlation, but it’s definitely possible they are correct and the ability pruning and skill nerfing will have a similar affect on swtor as the NGE expansion had on SWG and will put the last nails in the coffin.

 

I guess it depends on how well Bioware implement their plan and wether they have the time or inclination to actually listen to player feedback this time or just ignore it like they always seem to.

 

My concern and I think the concern of other longtime swtor players is Bioware are going to mess this up like they’ve done with other major changes that players haven’t asked for or want. The sort of changes that have shown to make players quit en masse in less than a few months.

 

Everytime Bioware has made one of these past mistakes, it has driven more players from the game than its brought into the game. So we end up with less players in the long term.

 

What’s scary is they have less than 5 months to finish this and squash any bugs this will obviously have with such massive changes. It really feels like this is being rushed and probably needs 12 months to do properly.

Edited July 26, 2021 by TrixxieTriss

[Darth-Obvious]

The OP is obviously trying to draw a correlation, but it’s definitely possible they are correct and the ability pruning and skill nerfing will have a similar affect on swtor as the NGE expansion had on SWG and will put the last nails in the coffin.

 

I guess it depends on how well Bioware implement their plan and wether they have the time or inclination to actually listen to player feedback this time or just ignore it like they always seem to.

 

My concern and I think the concern of other longtime swtor players is Bioware are going to mess this up like they’ve done with other major changes that players haven’t asked for or want. The sort of changes that have shown to make players quit en masse in less than a few months.

 

Everytime Bioware has made one of these past mistakes, it has driven more players from the game than its brought into the game. So we end up with less players in the long term.

 

What’s scary is they have less than 5 months to finish this and squash any bugs this will obviously have with such massive changes. It really feels like this is being rushed and probably needs 12 months to do properly.

 

Yes, what you're saying is true but more so than the changes, I'd say that not having stuff to do, long gaps between content updates is a bigger factor in driving people away from the game or not sticking with it than the changes.

 

Elder Scrolls Online makes changes that completely overhaul or make things useless or whatever way more frequently than SWTOR has but the difference is that they are also updating their game with content at a fairly decent rate which is something that keeps people engaged with it or keeps them coming back to it regardless of how the changes are received. WoW is in a similar position.

 

Ever since going Free To Play SWTOR has been in this unfortunate position of having a game that's bigger than what the development team can properly manage. The team makes X change to the game hoping it will change or help the game in some way but if it's poorly received they can't easily walk it back or offset it with the next update that's just around the corner. With SWTOR's updates being so few and far between they probably feel like they need to make significant changes, ie Galactic Command, Combat Styles, etc, whenever they do updates but when/if they mess up it's really hard for them to fix it or it takes forever to do so.

 

WIthout EA significantly re-investing in the game Bioware Austin is always gonna be stuck with this bad hand that they were dealt. A lot of the most common requests people have are generally things they don't have the resources to do so they have to come up with these new things or systems that they hope players will be interested in but in a number of cases that hasn't gone well and I feel like a big part of that is that they're generally not going to be able to deliver what people want or expect from the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

Yes, what you're saying is true but more so than the changes, I'd say that not having stuff to do, long gaps between content updates is a bigger factor in driving people away from the game or not sticking with it than the changes.

 

Elder Scrolls Online makes changes that completely overhaul or make things useless or whatever way more frequently than SWTOR has but the difference is that they are also updating their game with content at a fairly decent rate which is something that keeps people engaged with it or keeps them coming back to it regardless of how the changes are received. WoW is in a similar position.

 

Ever since going Free To Play SWTOR has been in this unfortunate position of having a game that's bigger than what the development team can properly manage. The team makes X change to the game hoping it will change or help the game in some way but if it's poorly received they can't easily walk it back or offset it with the next update that's just around the corner. With SWTOR's updates being so few and far between they probably feel like they need to make significant changes, ie Galactic Command, Combat Styles, etc, whenever they do updates but when/if they mess up it's really hard for them to fix it or it takes forever to do so.

 

WIthout EA significantly re-investing in the game Bioware Austin is always gonna be stuck with this bad hand that they were dealt. A lot of the most common requests people have are generally things they don't have the resources to do so they have to come up with these new things or systems that they hope players will be interested in but in a number of cases that hasn't gone well and I feel like a big part of that is that they're generally not going to be able to deliver what people want or expect from the game.

 

All true.

 

But most of Bioware’s missteps could be reduced or at least mitigate more if they communicated better with the player base and “actually listened” to player feedback when “they ask” for said feedback. Otherwise, what’s the point in even asking for feedback that you then go and ignore? The hubris the swtor producers have had over the years is astounding. Ben Irving being the worst so far, but there are and have been others at Bioware with similar hubris that blame the players for not liking their bad decisions.

[Darth-Obvious]

All true.

 

But most of Bioware’s missteps could be reduced or at least mitigate more if they communicated better with the player base and “actually listened” to player feedback when “they ask” for said feedback. Otherwise, what’s the point in even asking for feedback that you then go and ignore? The hubris the swtor producers have had over the years is astounding. Ben Irving being the worst so far, but there are and have been others at Bioware with similar hubris that blame the players for not liking their bad decisions.

 

When it comes to player feedback vs what they've implemented I think a lot of that is going to boil down to trying to tweak those things within the limitations they've placed on themselves. So for example, if they build something like Galactic Command or Combat Styles no amount of initial feedback would get those new systems to just be completely trashed or not implemented.

 

By the time they're added to the game for testing they've already spent 6 months to a year working on them and they're already so heavily integrated into the current/test build of the game at the point that there's no way to completely walk it back either.

 

So then what can change with those systems when they're on the PTS or near launch? Mostly numbers, ie how much experience or resources you're getting, how much damage you're doing, etc.

 

By the time something is on the PTS a lot of it or the larger parts of it are already going to be pretty set in place. At that point it's more about tuning.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Darth-Obvious

[aeterno]

Well since it's starting to look like Blizzard is having an apocalypse of its own, copying its dumbing down might be a happy-ish coincidence in terms of attracting WoW refugees... I mean j-rpg aesthetic probably won't tickle everyone's fancy.

[TrixxieTriss]

Well since it's starting to look like Blizzard is having an apocalypse of its own, copying its dumbing down might be a happy-ish coincidence in terms of attracting WoW refugees... I mean j-rpg aesthetic probably won't tickle everyone's fancy.

 

Most are flocking to FFIVX. Swtor isn’t even on their radar.

[Kass]

Well since it's starting to look like Blizzard is having an apocalypse of its own, copying its dumbing down might be a happy-ish coincidence in terms of attracting WoW refugees... I mean j-rpg aesthetic probably won't tickle everyone's fancy.

 

Most are flocking to FFIVX. Swtor isn’t even on their radar.

 

Good!

 

Blast 'em

 

But for those that come here: Make 'em learn - They aren't in Azeroth anymore.

 

THIS IS @#$@#!()*% STAR WARS... where you Kiss your Sister, and Han Shot First!

Edited July 27, 2021 by Kass

[aeterno]

Most are flocking to FFIVX. Swtor isn’t even on their radar.

 

That's understandable, it's hard to argue it's not the better product and it's getting content.

 

Unfortunately, it wasn't EA that doubled down on this game. Alas who could know Blizz would virtually implode in a span of a year.

 

But like I said, not everyone will enjoy the style of FFIVX. This game might get its share of newbies, being WoW light in SW skin that it is.

[Darth-Obvious]

That's understandable, it's hard to argue it's not the better product and it's getting content.

 

Unfortunately, it wasn't EA that doubled down on this game. Alas who could know Blizz would virtually implode in a span of a year.

 

But like I said, not everyone will enjoy the style of FFIVX. This game might get its share of newbies, being WoW light in SW skin that it is.

 

It's true that not everyone enjoys the FF14 aesthetic but in terms of what's on people's radars if you're not going from WoW to FF14 the next step for people in terms of MMOs would be to probably try out Elder Scrolls Online before something like SWTOR.

 

WoW and FF14 are the only current MMOs that require a sub so nothing else is really in their league however the next closest thing in terms of popularity or MMO that is able to put out significant content updates at a somewhat regular pace is ESO.

 

If you look at the MMOs out there that do the traditional giant-sized updates that people expect from MMOs there's really only WoW, FF14, and ESO doing things on that level.

[Soljin]

That's understandable, it's hard to argue it's not the better product and it's getting content.

 

Unfortunately, it wasn't EA that doubled down on this game. Alas who could know Blizz would virtually implode in a span of a year.

 

But like I said, not everyone will enjoy the style of FFIVX. This game might get its share of newbies, being WoW light in SW skin that it is.

 

The thing about FFXIV is that it also has Asmongold and a couple other high profile streamers leading the charge away from WOW to FFXIV citing the need for WOW to stop leveraging their player base's loyalty to its IP and nostalgia against making good game decisions...

 

If you look at it through that lens SWToR is not the game to move to from WoW as SWToR suffers the exact same problem. Bioware has not made good decisions over the years and they do have a tendency to lean on the IP(s) fans and general Star Wars nostalgia to leverage players vs investing in the game and deploying innovative design to draw players in.

 

FFXIV and ESO both have interesting game designs with more overall content and frequent content updates. More importantly both those game designer groups put massive faith in their games and doubled down with the resources to turn their games around with major revisions and updates...

 

Bioware/EA has never shown that kind of faith in SWToR... and so here we are.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Soljin

[TrixxieTriss]

THIS IS STAR WARS... where you Kiss your Sister

 

Just don’t use tongue

[Kass]

Just don’t use tongue

 

You can always pretend it didn't happen w/ no tongue... but +tongue you've crossed a line and forever will it dominate your destiny!