Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Froth]

I have already a video convering that issue, but keep the example coming so i can have idea for my other video.

 

ps : I understand that this is not linked directly to the OP concern, its just something that a lot of people claim.

 

Please don't post in this thread if it has nothing to do with it.

[Corwingeorge]

for ever 1 ability that is 100% working correct, 10 are not Edited December 31, 2011 by Corwingeorge

[ShadowMasterRP]

Been playing since early access and the only ability that works every single time flawlessly is my Sith Marauder's interrupt.

 

None of the buffs, mounts, cast time abilities or channeled abilities show the same responsiveness.

[Coldasbluessoul]

AH.. What the hell why not. I support until resolved.

 

I guess I'll toss up some tools next time I'm on to see if I can pin point any issues surrounding ability delays. I'll post the logs here so bioware can see it.

[boobaffet]

First video show that i cast an ability followed by a channeled. The second ability dont wait on the animation of the first one to start casting. You can see the second ability start damaging instantly, but his animation wait for the first one to finish.

 

Second video is just to show that , yes, you can cast an instant, then a offgcd and an other instant all in one gcd.

 

 

 

 

[Gordknight]

This among many other bugs and lack of features an mmo of 2011 should have already broke this for me. I already cancelled my sub.. I might take a look at the game again in a few months, but as of now especially as a melee tank, you just dont have the ability to react to pvp and pve encounters effectively.

 

It has been confirmed as a bug or problem with the heroengine itself. It has nothing to do with individual rigs. Im running an i7 970 with 12gb of ram and two gtx 460s in sli with an ssd drive. The same as people with mid and low end rigs. Whether I play the game or not I hope it does well because competition is always good and I dont want to see a good storytelling rpg company like bioware fail and lose tons of money.

 

Right now though because of this and many other issues I have with the current state of the game, I am taking my money and time elsewhere as the game in its current state is not enjoyable for me.

[Cherme]

I have to agree, I do not want to persevere with a game that forces visuals over gameplay. They have untill the end of my free month to aknowledge the problem, and to work upon it, or I to shall be cancelling.

[Corwingeorge]

First video show that i cast an ability followed by a channeled. The second ability dont wait on the animation of the first one to start casting. You can see the second ability start damaging instantly, but his animation wait for the first one to finish.

 

Second video is just to show that , yes, you can cast an instant, then a offgcd and an other instant all in one gcd.

 

 

 

 

am i supposed to watch these and go, wow that looks really responsive! i changed my mind, this guy's right, there's no delay

 

you cherry picked some situations that have mediocre fluidity

 

you arent convincing anyone of anything

Edited December 31, 2011 by Corwingeorge

[boobaffet]

am i supposed to watch these and go, wow that looks really responsive! i changed my mind, this guy's right, there's no delay

 

you cherry picked some situations that have mediocre fluidity

 

you arent convincing anyone of anything

 

The video show what it show.

 

Animation does not have priority over the spell firing. If you are experiencing it, it might be user specific or spell specific. Stop flaming that bioware designed a combat system that give priority to animation over the spell firing when its not the case.

 

And its possible to cast an instant+offgcd+instant in one gcd.

 

It shows nothing more, nothing less.

 

Edit : And please, i did not cherry pick anything. In the last part of the first video when you see me cast chain lightning+force lightning it was not even intended lol. Still show two spell with long animation and force lightning starting before the animation finish.

 

As for the mediocre fluidity, the important part is the crushing darkness+force lightning and chain lightning + force lightning in the first video and shock+recklesness+forcelightning in the second video. Aside from those ability i can assure you i was not spamming my ability to go off every gcd. If you actually pay attention to when i hit each ability they fire pretty quickly.

Edited December 31, 2011 by boobaffet

[Corwingeorge]

The video show what it show.

 

Animation does not have priority over the spell firing. If you are experiencing it, it might be user specific or spell specific. Stop flaming that bioware designed a combat system that give priority to animation over the spell firing when its not the case.

 

And its possible to cast an instant+offgcd+instant in one gcd.

 

It shows nothing more, nothing less.

 

ok thx for the update, keep me posted

[aureliastarr]

Timeline of the people who are trying to cover up this problem-

 

Before the LEAD COMBAT DESIGNER admitted there were several issues with potential resolutions: They argued there is NO problem everything is working great and they are happy as can be with everything about it and anyone that disagrees is a troll.

 

After the LEAD COMBAT DESIGNER pretty much burst their myopic bubbles: "Oh yeah oh yeah?? Well it doesn't really matter! A...and...umm... it's not the issue you think it is anyways!"

 

 

It's disturbing the lengths that people who neither work for the company nor have a dog in the fight will go to in order to prevent this game from being fixed. I feel like psychologists should study this...

Edited December 31, 2011 by aureliastarr

[boobaffet]

 

 

I though the swtor example was a bit odd.

[Bakarn]

Timeline of the people who are trying to cover up this problem-

 

Before the LEAD COMBAT DESIGNER admitted there were several issues with potential resolutions: They argued there is NO problem everything is working great and they are happy as can be with everything about it and anyone that disagrees is a troll.

 

After the LEAD COMBAT DESIGNER pretty much burst their myopic bubbles: "Oh yeah oh yeah?? Well it doesn't really matter! A...and...umm... it's not the issue you think it is anyways!"

 

 

It's disturbing the lengths that people who neither work for the company nor have a dog in the fight will go to in order to prevent this game from being fixed. I feel like psychologists should study this...

 

The point is, the problem is not as prolific as half of the whiners are making out. It's a problem with very specific abilities. It is NOT a problem for Jedi Knights except for Riposte. I have extensively tested this and there is literally no interrupt due to any ability. Even Master Strike cancels and does damage exactly when predicted to. You can even interrupt mid animation with Force Sweep. YOU DON'T SEE THE ANIMATION BUT THE SPELL BEING CAST IS INTERRUPTED. This is what I think is causing the bulk of said moaning. You don't actually pay any attention to what is going on and rely on your UI to tell you - the UI is wrong a lot of the time and that IS a bug.

 

Once the casting from cover is sorted out (see patch notes) then virtually everything is fixed.

 

The UI is also bugged with relation to cast time spells and believes they've been cancelled when they haven't. The actual ability fires on nearly every occasion. This is why you don't balance a game, and people like me do.

 

You can't fix something that isn't broken. Whining about it in general is not going to fix your problem seeing as it is going to cause them to look in the wrong bloody place. Find specific abilities, eliminate your own stupidity as a cause, and stop pretending that it happens 100% of the time. It doesn't. It's never actually happened to me outside of Riposte, which does display this behaviour.

 

Pinpoint specific abilities and note them down.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Bakarn

[Pilor]

I would give this thread all the thumbs up in the world if I could. This ability lag/clunkiness/etc... is what has kept me from sticking with every other non-WOW MMO in the past. Nothing is as fluid and responsive and it really kills the game.

[aureliastarr]

The point is, the problem is not as prolific as half of the whiners are making out. It's a problem with very specific abilities. It is NOT a problem for Jedi Knights except for Riposte. I have extensively tested this and there is literally no interrupt due to any ability. Even Master Strike cancels and does damage exactly when predicted to. You can even interrupt mid animation with Force Sweep.

 

Once the casting from cover is sorted out (see patch notes) then virtually everything is fixed.

 

The UI is also bugged with relation to cast time spells and believes they've been cancelled when they haven't. The actual ability fires on nearly every occasion. This is why you don't balance a game, and people like me do.

 

Case in point right here... are we playing the same game?

 

Also, I've seen the evolution of the arguments of people that disagree with this and probably any problem that is raised with this game... What you are saying now is just the next iteration.

 

OH ... btw ... I play a Sith Warrior ... the counterpart to the Jedi Knight ... so I know exactly where and how the combat feels clunky... no need to dazzle me with your "extensive tests". This game does not have solid responsiveness.

 

Bottom line is many of us are here to get this problem fixed, because we want to enjoy this game. And many will not continue to pay or play it if it is not fixed. Why come in and first deny the problem and now claim it's no big deal? If you love the game, go play it... and let those of us who are trying to let the developers know why a significant portion of their population might be leaving shortly alone.

Edited December 31, 2011 by aureliastarr

[Bakarn]

Case in point right here... are we playing the same game?

 

Also, I've seen the evolution of the arguments of people that disagree with this and probably any problem that is raised with this game... What you are saying now is just the next iteration.

 

OH ... btw ... I play a Sith Warrior ... the counterpart to the Jedi Knight ... so I know exactly where and how the combat feels clunky... no need to dazzle me with your "extensive tests". This game does not have solid responsiveness.

 

Bottom line is many of us are here to get this problem fixed, because we want to enjoy this game. And many will not continue to pay or play it if it is not fixed. Why come in and first deny the problem and now claim it's no big deal? If you love the game, go play it... and let those of us who are trying to let the developers know why a significant portion of their population might be leaving shortly alone.

 

I do play the game, and I guarantee I am both more observant and better at it than you are. You say it doesn't feel responsive. I played WoW at just sub Gladiator level on two characters so I KNOW how responsive combat is supposed to feel. I also played WAR, so I have a good comparison.

 

Simply put, I press a button, and something happens. I can even TIME when it happens, and seperate the abilities out by when the damage occurs. There are only TWO that do not have instant damage that occurs INSTANTLY. They occur even before the animation does.

 

That's it.

 

Blade Storm - delayed by around 0.3s

Force Sweep - delayed until the end of the animation, every time

 

I am not denying the problem. What I am saying is, most of you are not actually identifying a problem. You're just jumping on a bandwagon. I might note, the same bandwagon occured after every single WoW patch when people swore blind they'd changed Deep Breath on Onxyia.

 

They never changed Deep Breath on Onyxia. Not once.

 

I actually went out and testing this stuff to see if I could pin down the problem. You haven't. You've just got a general feeling. Well in the real world a "general feeling" is responsible for the homoeopathy industry. I'm a physicist. I deal in facts, not feelings.

 

Find me a bug and demonstrate it, and you will have my attention. until then, you're just whining. No doubt you're going to say "I don't need to justify myself to you." Well if you can't even convince another gamer playing the same class of your opinion, how the hell are you going to convince Bioware.

 

Give. Me. Facts. Videos. Pin down the problem to ability sets. Don't just give me gosh darn feelings.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Bakarn

[Bakarn]

I would also note that a similarly observant player debunked the moving healing example quite handily by pointing out a bug in the UI, and that the game was actually within a few microseconds as responsive as WoW in the same situation.

 

So come on, give me examples. The only one I can personally think of that I have come across besides Riposte is mounting - which is a problem I occasionally had in WoW too.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Bakarn

[Bazeleel]

I will agree with this.

[Froth]

I do play the game, and I guarantee I am both more observant and better at it than you are. You say it doesn't feel responsive. I played WoW at just sub Gladiator level on two characters so I KNOW how responsive combat is supposed to feel. I also played WAR, so I have a good comparison.

 

Simply put, I press a button, and something happens. I can even TIME when it happens, and seperate the abilities out by when the damage occurs. There are only TWO that do not have instant damage that occurs INSTANTLY. They occur even before the animation does.

 

That's it.

 

Blade Storm - delayed by around 0.3s

Force Sweep - delayed until the end of the animation, every time

 

I am not denying the problem. What I am saying is, most of you are not actually identifying a problem. You're just jumping on a bandwagon. I might note, the same bandwagon occured after every single WoW patch when people swore blind they'd changed Deep Breath on Onxyia.

 

They never changed Deep Breath on Onyxia. Not once.

 

I actually went out and testing this stuff to see if I could pin down the problem. You haven't. You've just got a general feeling. Well in the real world a "general feeling" is responsible for the homoeopathy industry. I'm a physicist. I deal in facts, not feelings.

 

Find me a bug and demonstrate it, and you will have my attention. until then, you're just whining. No doubt you're going to say "I don't need to justify myself to you." Well if you can't even convince another gamer playing the same class of your opinion, how the hell are you going to convince Bioware.

 

Give. Me. Facts. Videos. Pin down the problem to ability sets. Don't just give me gosh darn feelings.

 

OP spells it out pretty clearly with videos, proof, and a very detailed explanation. What more do you need?

[Brothertom]

I do play the game, and I guarantee I am both more observant and better at it than you are. You say it doesn't feel responsive. I played WoW at just sub Gladiator level on two characters so I KNOW how responsive combat is supposed to feel. I also played WAR, so I have a good comparison.

 

Simply put, I press a button, and something happens. I can even TIME when it happens, and seperate the abilities out by when the damage occurs. There are only TWO that do not have instant damage that occurs INSTANTLY. They occur even before the animation does.

 

That's it.

 

Blade Storm - delayed by around 0.3s

Force Sweep - delayed until the end of the animation, every time

 

I am not denying the problem. What I am saying is, most of you are not actually identifying a problem. You're just jumping on a bandwagon. I might note, the same bandwagon occured after every single WoW patch when people swore blind they'd changed Deep Breath on Onxyia.

 

They never changed Deep Breath on Onyxia. Not once.

 

I actually went out and testing this stuff to see if I could pin down the problem. You haven't. You've just got a general feeling. Well in the real world a "general feeling" is responsible for the homoeopathy industry. I'm a physicist. I deal in facts, not feelings.

 

Find me a bug and demonstrate it, and you will have my attention. until then, you're just whining. No doubt you're going to say "I don't need to justify myself to you." Well if you can't even convince another gamer playing the same class of your opinion, how the hell are you going to convince Bioware.

 

Give. Me. Facts. Videos. Pin down the problem to ability sets. Don't just give me gosh darn feelings.

 

your actually deny-ing this an issue?

 

the thread is like 2000 pages in length now bro get with the f*****g program

Edited December 31, 2011 by Brothertom

[Bakarn]

OP spells it out pretty clearly with videos, proof, and a very detailed explanation. What more do you need?

 

The videos don't actually show anything. I've watched them all, I've attempted to reproduce them, and nothing actually happens that is out of the ordinary.

 

None of you appear to actually know what is going on! The only one who seems to have any idea is the ex WoW player who can't even quantify what's going on beyond a general "lack of competitiveness" which considering WoW itself had a very connection biased tendency to shut itself off mid run and prevent you from taking actions is patently absurd.

 

Like I said. Examples. You should be able to reproduce them if you're suffering this problem, because I've been trying for a week and I simply can't do it. There are Knights and Warriors swearing that they can't interrupt anything ever because of ability lag and here I am, interrupting precisely when I mean to.

 

So you'll have to forgive my skepticism.

 

your actually deny-ing this as a problem.

 

the thread is like 2000 pages in length now bro get with the f*****g program

 

Again. The homeopathy industry is worth around a billion quid in the UK.

 

IT DOESN'T WORK.

 

Give me something to reproduce, damn it. An ability I can use where I can test its responsiveness precisely. All you are doing is reinforcing my general opinion that this is in fact a band wagon effect based on a handful of definable examples of this problem.

 

I'm not going to "get with the program" because a large number of people are convinced something is happening. 80% of the planet believes in God.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Bakarn

[TheHauntingBard]

Go read the other two topics and you will find your answer, enough examples given.

Videos show it as well, you can't expect people to chew it out over and over again because you don't bother to read.

[Froth]

The videos don't actually show anything. I've watched them all, I've attempted to reproduce them, and nothing actually happens that is out of the ordinary.

 

None of you appear to actually know what is going on! The only one who seems to have any idea is the ex WoW player who can't even quantify what's going on beyond a general "lack of competitiveness" which considering WoW itself had a very connection biased tendency to shut itself off mid run and prevent you from taking actions is patently absurd.

 

Like I said. Examples. You should be able to reproduce them if you're suffering this problem, because I've been trying for a week and I simply can't do it. There are Knights and Warriors swearing that they can't interrupt anything ever because of ability lag and here I am, interrupting precisely when I mean to.

 

So you'll have to forgive my skepticism.

 

 

 

Again. The homeopathy industry is worth around a billion quid in the UK.

 

IT DOESN'T WORK.

 

Give me something to reproduce, damn it. An ability I can use where I can test its responsiveness precisely. All you are doing is reinforcing my general opinion that this is in fact a band wagon effect based on a handful of definable examples of this problem.

 

I'm not going to "get with the program" because a large number of people are convinced something is happening. 80% of the planet believes in God.

 

it is very clear to thousands who have posted in this thread(3rd installment of two 1500+ reply threads) yet you are one of maybe ten having troubles seeing it....something seems weird with that.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Froth

[Bakarn]

it is very clear to thousands who have posted in this thread(3rd installment of two 1500+ reply threads) yet you are one of maybe ten having troubles seeing it....something seems weird with that.

 

Look.

 

I am asking you to give me an example to reproduce. If you can't do that from your OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE then why are you here?

 

Give me an ability to go and do this myself that you know causes this problem so I can bug report it and you can get it fixed! I went looking for this problem and I could not find it!

 

Stop dodging the damn question. There is no point in sending Bioware false information and saying it effects abilities that it doesn't effect. The only example I can find that works guaranteed every time is the mounting effect, which I bug reported myself last week. In terms of instant abilities, they all work exactly when they are supposed to with the exception of Riposte.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Bakarn

[Froth]

Look.

 

I am asking you to give me an example to reproduce. If you can't do that from your OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE then why are you here?

 

Give me an ability to go and do this myself that you know causes this problem so I can bug report it and you can get it fixed! I went looking for this problem and I could not find it!

 

Stop dodging the damn question. There is no point in sending Bioware false information and saying it effects abilities that it doesn't effect.

 

The issue is this, combat relying on animation times. The videos in the OP show this very clearly in multiple ways. The most common is this, example: cast something like a 1.5 second cast, after the cast bar fills up the animation of that ability takes 1 second from start to finish(after the cast bar filled up), during that one second, you press an instant cast ability, which doesn't fire until the previous 1 second animation is done.

 

In this way either your 1.5 second cast turned into a 2.5 second cast, or your instant cast turned into a 1 second cast. There is a video in the OP pointing this out side by side with WoW, any WoW player with considerable experience can instantly see this is a problem.

 

I'm not dodging your question, you are dodging the proof. There is plenty in the OP, read it fully.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Froth