fallenvirtues Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 The damage from the grenade isn't delayed because of flight time, it is delayed because of the previous animation. The damage registers before the grenade hits. Regardless...The system isnt working right for you...It should be...period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdbtto Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) alright so how do we solve that situation then..You like something I dont and vice versa...Who should win? No one wins, difference is people here are ready to quit the game over it, will u quit the game if the game is made more responsive? Edited December 31, 2011 by samdbtto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Anyway, while this bug as been noticable for me for awhile. Its never been so much of a PROBLEM. I did, however, finally experience the game-breaking part of this issue last night, with a boss, lord cineratus i believe his name is. He has an ability that causes HUGE amounts of damage, its a channeled ability that you're supposed to interrupt. I'd have no problem needing to interrupt, however. When i hit jolt - my interrupt - the second he starts channeling. There is enough delay that HE FINISHES THE CAST before i actually use jolt. Not saying you are not having a problem...But I have had no problem interupting in a timely fashion on Boss fights...but thats just me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdbtto Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Regardless...The system isnt working right for you...It should be...period not sure what you are getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 No one wins, difference is people here are ready to quit the game over it, will quit the game if the game is made more responsive? No one is arguing that the responsiveness of the UI needs to be fixed...I think we misunderstood echother somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdbtto Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 No one is arguing that the responsiveness of the UI needs to be fixed...I think we misunderstood echother somewhere probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larlar Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 ITT: People that need to go back to WoW and stop playing games at launch. Obviously you were not prepared. Not for a game at launch, not for the focus on elements other than combat and not for anything but WoW. You were not prepared. This type of comment really frustrates me. This thread is not about the lack of features, content, class balance, bugs, server queues or any of the other niceties of an MMO launch. Not a person in this thread is complaining about any of those things as I suspect that the majority of people who have come to this thread know that these things take time. We know the way things work in this regard. You would know, if you had read this thread and its predecessors, that we are concerned about the workings of a fundamental game mechanic that, if incorrect, ruins all of the above anyway. If they don't get this right, all the rest of the garbage won't matter. And at the moment, it is not right. Its far from it All of us here want this game to succeed. All of us want to have a great game to play and its in all of our interests that this problem is fixed and that Bioware sidestepped the booby trap that snared all of the other challengers to WOW's mmo crown. Its all about this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 not sure what you are getting at. What Im saying is, your ability is not firing off exactly the time it should be and thats the real problem..not the travel time of the grenade and so forth We are all agreeing here that a lot of you are having a real problem with your ability not firing off at the exact moment it should How they have damage corresponding with animations and so forth is not the real problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acheros Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 alright so how do we solve that situation then..You like something I dont and vice versa...Who should win? /shrug. I just really cabbage. Cabbage killed my pappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRose Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 The combat is obviously not exactly wow's...otherwise we wouldnt be having this conversation... If things fired off correctly with no delay, this system would feel responsive and fluid for everyone...What you are saying is you dont want a added challenge to the scenario..If you dont like the fact your grenade has to make it to and hit the target before its effects happen, use a up close interupt I dont think its fair that I cant interupt from a distance on my SW..So by you having to wait for it to hit me makes it more fair for melee classes did you ever think for one second with that particular ability that it is a intended con to using the ability...Like how a lot of games incorporate a pro/con system I.E: You get a +5 base damage increase but -5 to accuracy Noted. This thread is huge. Look how many ppl dont agree with you. Nothing wrong with your point of view it just that this thread is for us that feel the ability delay a little too clunky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samdbtto Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) What Im saying is, your ability is not firing off exactly the time it should be and thats the real problem..not the travel time of the grenade and so forth We are all agreeing here that a lot of you are having a real problem with your ability not firing off at the exact moment it should How they have damage corresponding with animations and so forth is not the real problem... You misunderstood what i was getting at I think. It was said the fact that there is a delay in dmg or interrupt due to travel time is how it should be and is, I said it isn't that way already, hence that isnt the problem. Edited December 31, 2011 by samdbtto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Noted. This thread is huge. Look how many ppl dont agree with you. Nothing wrong with your point of view it just that this thread is for us that feel the ability delay a little too clunky. So we do agree then...Cause I agree there should be no delay from when you hit a button or when your casting time is up...Maybe Im just not wording myself correctly What I'm saying is if your ability is a instant cast but the damage doesnt necessarily happen instantly because the bolt/grenade/saber hasnt made impact yet, doesnt mean the system is bad or broken...What is broken is how quickly that happens after you hit the button or your casting time is up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenvirtues Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 You misunderstood what i was getting at I think. It was said the fact that there is a delay in dmg or interrupt due to travel time is how it should be and is, I said it isn't that way already, hence that isnt the problem. Right..so you are saying travel time isnt the problem, the fact that the ability is not happening as soon as you hit the button or the casting time is up right? If thats the case, my apologize..We have been agreeing the entire time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindGeezer Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Well, I won't quit the game but as a Healer im very concerned about the responsiveness of the abilities, Any healer can tell you how stressful the healing job is at end game, We get blamed and yelled for everything that goes wrong, and this issue contributes to that. I do know Bioware is working hard on this and I trust they are going to fix the problem soon, Hoping soon will be before the initial 30 days free period expire. Sad truth of MMO'S is that people will do quit and cancel subscriptions because of problems like this. So to the BIOWARE team working on this issues please don't do like other MMO'S that keep us in shade of the current priorities you are working on, KEEP US INFORMED :0. To all of you have a safe Happy new year celebration with your families and love ones, Thanks Bioware for giving us SWTOR before the year ended and hoping to go to the first SWTOR CON Next Year with my 2 sons. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRLukasPHD Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Frankly it have something to do with horrible optimalisation of SWTOR and servers. I love this game, and so far i pretty much enjoyed most of it. But the problems that we talk about in this thread seems to escalate with each passing day, or my frustration just increase idk. I've took some time, to test few things, as i was reading a lot of posts that stated that low FPS had an impact on the abillity lag. From my tests on 3 different computers, i can say with honesty, that indeed bad optimalisation of the Graphic engine have some sort of influence on the abillity lag. I have also expereinced the "FPS drops" that some people said they have, and this have nothing to do with specification of your PC or Laptop. I played the game on High end pc, high en laptop and mid-low pc, and to my dissatisfaction neither of them could totally avoid random fps drops, even my High end pc, that really outmaches greatly recommended settings, could not handle warfronts 100% of the time, it would stagger occasionally. My gaming laptop, that runs battlefield 3 on ultra details, skyrim on ultra, with stable 40-60 FPS, is performing poorly with SWTOR, with everything turned on max settings, it will drop to 15 fps in warfronts rather often. To my great surprise, my long forgotten mid-low Pc, could run the game at a stable level of 30-40+ fps with shadows off and medium settings, even in warfronts there was no sudden drops under 20 fPS. Hovewer every testing platform experienced " Overall sudden performence drop", that would seem to be random in nature, what i mean is the fps would drop and the abillity lag would be more severe than normally. This would happen randomly and i dont have any idea why. To be more precise, while playing on my laptop i was exploring Tatooine, with stable and high fps and almost no abillity delay, the next day i log in without changing anything, and my fps is significanlty lower and the abillity lag just got more annoying, this started to happen recently, i do not recall expeiencing abillity lag in few day after release except of warzones. The abillity delay was significantly more noticable on my mid-low pc, and laptop. There is no denying to the fact that SWTOR graphic engine is badly optimised and it have some impact on the abillity lag. As many others have stated, their gaming platforms runs other games with High-end graphics on high details, yet still can't fully handle SWTOR. While i myself can experience the game on max settings and with stable and high FPS due to recent PC upgrade ( Except of warzones ;/), i fear a lot of people with "recommended" spec feel cheated and tricked. Edited December 31, 2011 by DRLukasPHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTeMpLaR Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 100% Support the OP's endeavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_conrado Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) I am strongly approving of this, at this stage pvping as a level 50 corruption sorcerer is much more fun than doing hardmodes, mainly because that though abilities sometimes don't activate or are delayed I still get to survive, Boarding Party not so much. Regarding amount of players reporting this issue I am amazed by Bioware's vague responce, I was assured that they have a special team investigating the 'disappearing on assembly pre-order crystal' which I assume from the lack of further feedback is still on the task, let's hope they have a special team working on this as well. Edited December 31, 2011 by el_conrado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painaid Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I noticed this problem the moment I stepped into my first warzone at 10. Even now, it is driving me absolutely crazy. My guildmates keep telling me it's on client-side lag but I just knew it wasn't. I play a scoundrel dps akin to a rogue in WoW. This means that I use a LOT of abilities in very quick succession when I open on a character out of stealth. Problem is, it takes the game FOREVER to register my flechete round and shoot first ability that half the time I just sit there like a retard for 1-2 seconds (when my opponent is stunned by my opener) and I'm unable to do anything else. This is completely unacceptable. I don't know how this got overlooked in beta. It is seriously making me think twice about continuing to play this game. Ability delay is just so frustrating. On a sidenote, I like how the tooltip for Flechette Round says that it does not obey the GCD, however, this is completely false because I STILL have to wait for the entire ability animation to run its course before I can actually use Shoot First. And let me tell you, in a PvP situation that 1-1.5 seconds is an ETERNITY. This problem should be Bioware's #1 priority to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putok Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I just crated this movie. I'm simultaneously using two off-GCD abilities during an instant with a long animation. I'm in the fleet in this video, latency 47ms. As you can see, it's just about a tenth of a second between button push and the abilities triggering, and both trigger simultaneously. Their animation is delayed until after the animation of the first ability is completed. I then refresh dark ward while spamming lacerate. Once again, .1s delay. I definitely have had issues with combat responsiveness at other times, but since this last patch, it's been improved significantly, and my off-GCD abilities ALWAYS perform this well or better. I've seen a lot of people complaining about off-GCD abilities not working well, so I wanted to post this for contrast. It seems to be an intermittent issue, and not an issue everyone is having. System specs: Phenom II 965 OCed to 3.7ghz, 16BG DDR 1600, 5870 OCed to 900/1295. My natural FPS in the fleet in that spot without Fraps hard capping it at 30 for recording is between 60 and 80. I'm not sure if system performance could potentially be a factor. If people are interested, I can repeat this test under different circumstances, or another one showing it with an interupt firing properly. I'll TRY to see if I can pick up some clunkyness, but I usually don't experience it with this character very much. The biggest issue I have is "You can't do that while moving" after I stop moving, though every now and then (and I'm really not sure why) combat gets a bit clunky for me when I'm weaving melee abilities and shock together. This is a very odd problem, because it does not seem to happen to everyone all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRose Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) So we do agree then...Cause I agree there should be no delay from when you hit a button or when your casting time is up...Maybe Im just not wording myself correctly What I'm saying is if your ability is a instant cast but the damage doesnt necessarily happen instantly because the bolt/grenade/saber hasnt made impact yet, doesnt mean the system is bad or broken...What is broken is how quickly that happens after you hit the button or your casting time is up I hope we understand each other. The problem is not when the damage happens (in this case - although Ive seen cases when damage happens before the animation), the problem is when you have control of you toon after your ability is cast. Edited December 31, 2011 by AlexRose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobaffet Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 What Im saying is, your ability is not firing off exactly the time it should be and thats the real problem..not the travel time of the grenade and so forth We are all agreeing here that a lot of you are having a real problem with your ability not firing off at the exact moment it should How they have damage corresponding with animations and so forth is not the real problem... The problem he is having is that the same ability will take say 1 sec to land when you cast it alone but 2 second when you cast an ability before. I personnaly think this is far from gamebreaking, but id like to see this issue fixed. An ability should always have the same time beetween when you activate it and when it hit, regardless on what ability you casted previously. I find it amusing also that this issue is pretty much the only issue related with ability delay. And its not when firing, its when landing. I heard that animation had priority over ability firing much more then i would like. ==== To summarize this thread : Sometime your spell will land slower depending on your previous ability casted. However animation does not have priority over ability firing, you are still able to cast 1 ability ever gcd. ==== And people are having many issue with the combat system not related to this ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyzicx Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ive seen that the movement in SWTOR is on par with WoW, it actually feels like im touching the ground and im super pleased with that, most other mmo's can't even seem to get that right. But yes the combat system, ability queuing system, i donno what its called, is not right. it makes the game feel clunky and it will fail because of this. I try to have some sort of rotation and chain queue abilities together, it doesnt work out most of the time. the animation starts to not keep up with what im doing, or sometimes the ability wont keep up with the animation. Its a mess. I'm concerned because ToR has seemed to make a pretty legit mmo here. like i stated before, the movement feels REAL good. just on par with WoW imo. but something has to be done about this combat ability issue. At least for me, this will make or break it. It doesn't matter if you love or hate WoW. The feel of the game and how tight the ability system is, is half the reason the game has survived. ToR has part of it down, the feel of the movement, that it feels like your really walking on solid ground and that you are really interacting and belong in that environment. But the combat needs to be fixed before this game fails. As a raider in WoW i'm not even concerned about the end game raiding content in ToR yet. I can wait. First thing first, fix the combat, make it and the animation responsive and tight, and you will have yourselves a pro mmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewAgo Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I have to agree with the OP and many of you others. There are a few flaws in this game, some than can't be fixed, and some that can. I'm hoping this is one the the later. The sad thing is I'm loving almost every aspect of this game, but personally the delayed, unresponsive and sluggish combat is a deal breaker. The reason why myself and so many others were initially drawn to WoW was because of how damn well it controlled. Say what you will about WoW/Blizzard, but WoW was an MMO that controlled like a freakin' action/fighting game. It just felt good! I really hope this is being worked on, or at least looked into. If it can be improved Bioware will have me for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcore Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 I am currently in the theater for Sherlock2 but catching up with the thread I just want to really make clear that Boobafett has absolutely no grasp of the problem, I believe this to be his inability to see the difference between instant and .1-3 delay. I hope Georg disregards his analysis of this problem as it is "completely" uninformed. Fallenvirtues is halfway there, the only problem is that he still believe that he does not have a delay problem in certain cases that others do. However he does see a general problem and that is an important distinction. I mist point out again and make sure everyone understands that "everyone" has the exact same delay and animation problems regardless of your ability to realize or notice this. This is very hard to accept but important to understand to get this resolved... Sorry no replies from me for a bit. Happy new year all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRLukasPHD Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) I just crated this movie. I'm simultaneously using two off-GCD abilities during an instant with a long animation. I'm in the fleet in this video, latency 47ms. As you can see, it's just about a tenth of a second between button push and the abilities triggering, and both trigger simultaneously. Their animation is delayed until after the animation of the first ability is completed. I then refresh dark ward while spamming lacerate. Once again, .1s delay. I definitely have had issues with combat responsiveness at other times, but since this last patch, it's been improved significantly, and my off-GCD abilities ALWAYS perform this well or better. I've seen a lot of people complaining about off-GCD abilities not working well, so I wanted to post this for contrast. It seems to be an intermittent issue, and not an issue everyone is having. System specs: Phenom II 965 OCed to 3.7ghz, 16BG DDR 1600, 5870 OCed to 900/1295. My natural FPS in the fleet in that spot without Fraps hard capping it at 30 for recording is between 60 and 80. I'm not sure if system performance could potentially be a factor. If people are interested, I can repeat this test under different circumstances, or another one showing it with an interupt firing properly. I'll TRY to see if I can pick up some clunkyness, but I usually don't experience it with this character very much. The biggest issue I have is "You can't do that while moving" after I stop moving, though every now and then (and I'm really not sure why) combat gets a bit clunky for me when I'm weaving melee abilities and shock together. This is a very odd problem, because it does not seem to happen to everyone all of the time. The system performance have definitive impact on the abillity lag, on my gaming machine the abillity lag is noticable but not raelly exceeds 0.4 seconds, while my laptop (bare in mind it's still better than most ppls pc s) have delays of 0.8 and my old pc lags for 1.2 second Edited December 31, 2011 by DRLukasPHD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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