PvP power leveling isnt an exploit

[Acron]

BW keeps saying they'll punish exploiters, great, i sure hope so.

 

But leveling through warzones isn't an exploit, BW said if someone wants to level purely with pvp, then they should do it.

 

The only bug here is not having enough people on servers, is that my fault? no, is that the players fault (the ones that are lvl 40 now)? no, its bioware's fault.

 

when we do enter and the warzones start filling up then we'll play against those lvl 50 all in pvp gear, yeeeeeey for pvp in swtor!

[asciiadam]

I am not ingame but I agree. This cannot be punished. BW turn off the WZ's if you do not want this to happen.

 

You cannot punish someone for queueing for a Warzone.

[Meowling]

Exploit: Is the use of a bug or design flaw by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

[TheDirtyRider]

You should read the RoC before you make uninformed threads.

 

Today , 02:12 AM

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhinoplat

I will have to think hard about buying the game if BioWare bans people over their stupidity. Players have this unique knack for finding creative ways, staying within the game mechanics, to level. It is not exploiting. Exploits are speed hacks, or map hacks, aim hacks etc. Using a game mechanic in the way that BioWare actually coded the game is not an exploit.

 

Even if players are using the mechanics in a way BioWare didn't know their game would respond to is not an exploit. If BioWare was serious about stopping this use of game mechanics, then they would shut the servers down and quickly patch the problem by not allowing players to leave the warzones, or any number of other fixes. BioWare in essence is endorsing the use of these mechanics by not shutting down the servers.

 

 

Legal Notices - Rules of conduct

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

 

The Rules of Conduct are guidelines that apply to conduct and behavior on the Star Wars: The Old Republic website, product and service

 

A.General Rules and Guidelines

To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

...

17. Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.

...

 

 

B. Mod, Hack and Cheat Prohibitions

...

4. You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate.

 

 

 

May I direct you to "other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate."

 

 

Its an exploit. The people doing it know its an exploit. They deserve a banhammer.

[ReclusiveOne]

Was it intended to have the war zones kick out early and grant full XP? No.

 

Sure, Bioware does share some blame for providing a game with an exploitable portion. However, someone had to go an exploit it. Trying claim something that clearly gives an unfair advantage, was not working as intended, and was repeatedly used by players to get said advantage is not an exploit is just post hoc rationalization.

[Ahkronn]

Woop... I was going to repost my post, but seems someone already did it

[ericdjobs]

Rofl

 

So, for people wanting to play on a PVP server, we're going to be greeted by level 50s decked out in full PVP gear

 

 

y'know, I really had no problem with this delayed access really.. but this is starting to get kinda f'd up. If this is the case, they should've just allowed people to keep their characters from beta; same effect.

 

Seriously.. I was okay with people getting a bit of a jump on me... I was fine with having to level a little faster to try and stay with the curve (pvp wise), maybe people would have some better gear

 

Instead when I get to play I'm going to be greeted by the Level 50 squad of fully PVP geared players (because, y'know, with this exploit they get the badges and all, not just the experience... in 1-2 minutes instead of 15... so instead of 4x matches an hour that's a staggering 30! So basically a 30x Exp and badge increase is included with first day early access, whatever)

 

This is crazy!

Edited December 14, 2011 by ericdjobs

[ReclusiveOne]

I am not ingame but I agree. This cannot be punished. BW turn off the WZ's if you do not want this to happen.

 

You cannot punish someone for queueing for a Warzone.

 

This isn't about punishing people for queing for a Warzone. This is about punishing people for abusing a bugged queing system for unfair advantage - otherwise known as exploiting.

[Pulpp]

BW keeps saying they'll punish exploiters, great, i sure hope so.

 

But leveling through warzones isn't an exploit, BW said if someone wants to level purely with pvp, then they should do it.

 

The only bug here is not having enough people on servers, is that my fault? no, is that the players fault (the ones that are lvl 40 now)? no, its bioware's fault.

 

when we do enter and the warzones start filling up then we'll play against those lvl 50 all in pvp gear, yeeeeeey for pvp in swtor!

 

You aren't levelling via pvp, you are levelling via the absence of pvp.

 

After a certain point, ANYONE would have recognized something wasn't working as intended. You agreed to the ToS, feigning ignorance isn't an excuse.

[Turukano]

Exploit: Is the use of a bug or design flaw by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

 

Bioware never said it was an exploit so it is not.

[TheDirtyRider]

You aren't levelling via pvp, you are levelling via the absence of pvp.

 

After a certain point, ANYONE would have recognized something wasn't working as intended. You agreed to the ToS, feigning ignorance isn't an excuse.

 

Exactly.

 

The solution is simple. Remove early access for those who exploited.

[rebellol]

This isn't about punishing people for queing for a Warzone. This is about punishing people for abusing a bugged queing system for unfair advantage - otherwise known as exploiting.

 

Ok, trust I understand this argument. I really do understand.

 

The problem is - how do we distinguish between people who were exploiting and people who are just really enthusiastic about warzones?

 

With most exploits the guilty party can plead ignorance but it is obvious they were going out of their way to exploit. In this case, I was just queuing for warzones is a pretty good defense.

 

So the problem is not the spirit or letter of the law. It is the enforcement. If this really is a problem I don't see anything bioware could do other than close the warzones down for now.

Edited December 14, 2011 by rebellol

[GordonGekko]

hah. While I don't think it deserves a ban it is clearly an exploit and the XP gained for it should be taken away and a warning should be given. It is like justifying duping money/credits that's within the mechanics of the game and nothing wrong with abusing that.

 

People have waited soooo long for the game to be released yet they risk getting banned on the first day.... OF EGA.

[Knewt]

BW keeps saying they'll punish exploiters, great, i sure hope so.

 

But leveling through warzones isn't an exploit, BW said if someone wants to level purely with pvp, then they should do it.

 

The only bug here is not having enough people on servers, is that my fault? no, is that the players fault (the ones that are lvl 40 now)? no, its bioware's fault.

 

when we do enter and the warzones start filling up then we'll play against those lvl 50 all in pvp gear, yeeeeeey for pvp in swtor!

 

The problem with your theory is you aren't engaging in PvP. It is not your fault that there aren't enough players to get WZ up. It is your fault for continuing to queue after you know the bug exists.

[SneakyErvin]

Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.

 

You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate.

 

They pretty much speak for themselves those two points.

[GordonGekko]

Ok, trust I understand this argument. I really do understand.

 

The problem is - how do we distinguish between people who were exploiting and people who are just really enthusiastic about warzones?

 

With most exploits the guilty party can plead ignorance but it is obvious they were going out of their way to exploit. In this case, I was just queuing for warzones is a pretty good defense.

 

So the problem is not the spirit or letter of the law. It is the enforcement. If this really is a problem I don't see anything bioware could do other than close the warzones down for now.

 

If you have gained X amount of levels in a short period of time.. I think it is safe to say you didn't use the system but abused it.

 

Whatever the number breakdown is.. I don't know... Of course the people that have abused this will come cry if anything happens.. But face it, we are.. 14 hours down EGA so resetting these people and giving them a warning is the least they should do.

[Knewt]

Ok, trust I understand this argument. I really do understand.

 

The problem is - how do we distinguish between people who were exploiting and people who are just really enthusiastic about warzones?

 

With most exploits the guilty party can plead ignorance but it is obvious they were going out of their way to exploit. In this case, I was just queuing for warzones is a pretty good defense.

 

So the problem is not the spirit or letter of the law. It is the enforcement. If this really is a problem I don't see anything bioware could do other than close the warzones down for now.

Closing war zones is the first thing Bioware should have done after they discovered the issue today. Unfortunately, the haven't done that yet (to my knowledge, I am not in game yet). I guess they will learn the hard way that they need to move faster on this type of bug.

[Madbent]

Of course it is an exploit. A level 50 in two days... and it isn't? rofl

[ReclusiveOne]

Ok, trust I understand this argument. I really do understand.

 

The problem is - how do we distinguish between people who were exploiting and people who are just really enthusiastic about warzones?

 

With most exploits the guilty party can plead ignorance but it is obvious they were going out of their way to exploit. In this case, I was just queuing for warzones is a pretty good defense.

 

So the problem is not the spirit or letter of the law. It is the enforcement. If this really is a problem I don't see anything bioware could do other than close the warzones down for now.

 

Pleading ignorance when one has sat for over an hour plugging away at a bugged system over and over again is a bit much to believe. The idea that someone would do that simply out of ignorance, not realizing that they were doing something wrong, is a bit much to believe.

 

Yes, not every one did wrong here. I get that.

 

However, there are clearly those that did. All Bioware needs to do is make some arbitrary cutoff number, and then roll back all the xp granted by war zones past that number. So, if Bioware picks five ques, then all the xp earned past five ques today is rolled back. Bioware can even just get a median average number of all the people who qued up the war zone and use that as the cutoff, only punishing half the people who qued up at all, and only by a small portion of the amount.

 

I agree that Bioware has to target a reaction appropriately, but to suggest that nothing can be done because innocent people can be caught in the net is to set up a false dichotomy between a blanket, heavy-handed response and no response at all.

[TheGawdfather]

You should read the RoC before you make uninformed threads.

 

Today , 02:12 AM

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhinoplat

I will have to think hard about buying the game if BioWare bans people over their stupidity. Players have this unique knack for finding creative ways, staying within the game mechanics, to level. It is not exploiting. Exploits are speed hacks, or map hacks, aim hacks etc. Using a game mechanic in the way that BioWare actually coded the game is not an exploit.

 

Even if players are using the mechanics in a way BioWare didn't know their game would respond to is not an exploit. If BioWare was serious about stopping this use of game mechanics, then they would shut the servers down and quickly patch the problem by not allowing players to leave the warzones, or any number of other fixes. BioWare in essence is endorsing the use of these mechanics by not shutting down the servers.

 

 

Legal Notices - Rules of conduct

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc

 

The Rules of Conduct are guidelines that apply to conduct and behavior on the Star Wars: The Old Republic website, product and service

 

A.General Rules and Guidelines

To keep the Service a compliant, fun, fair and safe gaming environment for everyone, you may not engage in any of the following behavior:

...

17. Exploit any bug in the Service to gain unfair advantage in the game and/or communicate the existence of any such bug (either directly or through the public posting) to any other user of the Service.

...

 

 

B. Mod, Hack and Cheat Prohibitions

...

4. You may not use macros, add-ons or other stored rapid keystrokes, "dupes," "cheats" or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate.

 

 

 

May I direct you to "other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate."

 

 

Its an exploit. The people doing it know its an exploit. They deserve a banhammer.

 

I bookmarked that badboy. No doubt those rules will be used against me.

[HardcoreFTW]

You want to know something cool about exploit?? It is always the creator of exploit fault..

 

But people still abuse it anyway.. Only leads to punishment to yourself.. Blizzard created a lot of exploits.. and have taken action cause of their mistake and their player abuse.

[Strah]

Some people don't realize they play BIOWARE'S game on accounts that belong to BIOWARE.

If Bio want to ban someone - they've got an absolute right to do that without no apparent reason.

And in this case - they do have a reason.

[rebellol]

 

However, there are clearly those that did. All Bioware needs to do is make some arbitrary cutoff number, and then roll back all the xp granted by war zones past that number. So, if Bioware picks five ques, then all the xp earned past five ques today is rolled back. Bioware can even just get a median average number of all the people who qued up the war zone and use that as the cutoff, only punishing half the people who qued up at all, and only by a small portion of the amount.

 

I agree that Bioware has to target a reaction appropriately, but to suggest that nothing can be done because innocent people can be caught in the net is to set up a false dichotomy between a blanket, heavy-handed response and no response at all.

 

I agree with you completely. My point was not that Bioware should do nothing because it is hard to choose between enthusiastic pvp'rs and exploiters. I was responding to the idea that is easy to just ban exploiters.

 

In other words, I was not worried about sensible fixes like the one you describe, but the people who were out for blood wanting everyone who maybe queued for a warzone a few times in a row (some honestly) harshly punished as exploiters.

 

I'd even be fine with huge experience penalties, but once you start discussing bans and things like that I do start to worry about the certainty with which we can distinguish exploiters/innocents.

[translucentwolf]

You should read the RoC before you make uninformed threads.

 

Its an exploit. The people doing it know its an exploit. They deserve a banhammer.

 

Agreed, July Pre-order or not, CE order or not, a cheater is a cheater. Drop the hammer.