PvP and Why It Sucks (As a level 50 Marauder)

[Ceraz]

1. Jedi knight/ Sith warrior are probably the strongest class in the game bar none for the combat aspect of pvp, the sheer amount of defensive cd's you have is staggering, and you have a 1 minute cd i win button that aoe crits people for 4k+, if you can't do that, you're doin it wrong.

 

 

2. Void Star, you obviously are a bad pvp'er if that is your take on void star, sorry, but yes, as defense, you should be DEFENDING the points that the offense is trying to take, its common strategy to try to pull combat away from the door to have stealth classes take them unnoticed, if you fall for this, its your fault, not the games, let me sum up for you

FIGHT ON FLAG, FIGHT ON DOORS, FIGHT ON TURRET CONSOLES, never let these things be ninja'd.

 

btw. Force slow, 150% speed, two seconds, 30 second cd. there is NO WAY a shadow/assassin can get to the door stealthed before your entire team can get to the door as defense. period, what happened was, like an idiot, you didnt walk out the door when the match started, and so you got locked in when the respawn timer started.

 

3. oh ya, you play huttball because you and most of the population rolled sith, you want to play other warzones? roll alliance, The fact that sith only get to play huttball is self inflicted.

 

4. You know what the most frustrating thing about combat is? when your about to get a kill on someone and you get OUTPLAYED, that is all. Cry more. Your class is powerful, learn to play it.

 

5. No you shouldnt be more of a tank than an assassin shadow, you come from the jediknight, which splits into tank, or light armor dps. The assasin/shadow IS a tank. Derp. you chose the dps class. They chose a tank class.

 

6. Stuns, learn to understand resolve, which stuns to break, and make sure you healers know they can dispel stuns. your lack of stuns, you picked the dps class, you have a ******** of defense cooldowns that make you UNKILLABLE for 5 seconds when you use them correctly, in addition to a vanish. and an aoe stun, a knock back, and just straight forward craploads of damage. The juggernaught btw, has a force choke that is no longer channeled, and he can ravage you while you are choking.

 

7. Stealth is fine. in fact, stealth is the weakest i have ever seen in an mmo, its very easy to catch someone.

 

 

tldr. Im sorry, but you simply do not play your class well.

 

1. I cannot compete with a class in combat with more than one stun. It's unbelievable. Also, that's one spec to do that 4k smash that requires a queue chain of about 4 abilities and if one misses, you're screwed. It's not a viable spec for anything outside of doing one massive hit every 50ish seconds.

 

2. That's exactly what I said. Maybe instead of skimming and trying to troll you should increase your reading comprehension.

 

3. So you're saying that I'm stuck playing Huttball because it's my fault I chose to play what I wanted to play when the game was announced? That's a great concept.

 

4. See number 1.

 

5. You obviously know nothing about the Marauder/Sentinel class since you assume that it's light armor. Guess what? It's not. It's medium armor. This here alone throws out any credibility you have on commenting on this thread.

 

6. Resolve is broken. Pure and simple. Even with a full resolve bar you can still be stunned.

 

7. You missed the entire concept of the idea I was explaining. Please actually read it instead of skimming.

 

Conclusion:

Don't come in here, skim, and then try to troll. It just makes you look like an idiot.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Ceraz

[Ceraz]

LOL I understand this, and there are valid points, but calling Voidstar, "spaceship" and even stating that you played this only a couple of times(in which case you can't possibly have higher ranking than valor 10) makes me think you're overreacting.

 

I'm valor rank 56, and the guild mates that I pvp with have worked around carrying 4-8 ppl, just by simple voice communication and experience.

 

We win 9 out of 10 matches as republic, losing only because we slip up, we get 5 level 10-20s or they have a better team than us.

 

The reason I've only played it a couple of times is due to population imbalance on my server. It's probably.. close to 8 to 1 Sith heavy.

[Elytharra]

This is not the PvP game you're looking for. EA/BioWare refuses to punish utter, complete failure and fire the imbeciles on their staff who used to work for Mythic, so PvP in their games will always be a CC- infested, complete joke. Guild Wars 2 beta is soon!

 

EA has also apparently decided to not spend any money on Star Wars and just pull in as many millions as they can, as soon as they can. They've obviously spent near-zero dollars on customer support, for example (don't even bother putting in a petition in game - response time is over TWO WEEKS), which indicates no long-term support plans for this game.

 

Also, you *CAN'T* have significant rewards for world PvP or we both know you'll have "Sploiter Dewds -Empire" guild fighting "Sploiter Dewds - Republic" guild and just trading wins back and forth all day long for the rewards. This situation is already happening on Ilum, where Republic and Empire will intentionally not attack each other so they can trade point captures back and forth. It's also happening in Huttball, where guilds on opposite sides will deliberately sabotage their team to trade wins.

 

This game is intended to be "KotOR 3" and you will generally only get enjoyment by playing a PvE class story to 50, then starting over again.

[SWImara]

1) I agree the commendations system could use a ton of help, in its current implementation it is effectively one more thing barringlow level players from PvPing. Why on earth is there a 1000 commendation cap, who thought this was a good idea?

 

2) We disagree wholly on Voidstar, I hope you understand that generally your issues are personal problems rather than Bioware's failings or successes. Voidstar is imo the only genuinely "interesting" warzone possessing both clear objectives and requiring attentive play & some form of strategy to win. I don't even know what to tell you about the consular/inquisitor issue, it often seems like every imperial player is an Inquisitor and still I've won this warzone way more often than I've lost it as a Republic player. CC is annoying, learn to work around it. Your "babysit a door" comment is an issue of your PvP mobility, engage, break away, defend. This should all be doable, even in a PUG. Wipe up stragglers, get back on defense, rinse, wash, win.

 

3) Huttball... what to say about Huttball. Essentially the primary complaint people have about it is an issue of server imbalance. You see Huttball more than any other Warzone because you play Empire. I think I've played it thrice in my whole time PvPing (I hate it as an aside)

 

You do however make an excellent point regarding objectives, I think this was recently adjusted and have not PvPed much since it was (since currently PvPing is semi-pointless unless you're 50 with expertise gear). Pursuit of objectives should award more commendations than killing... by a wide margin... there really should be no argument about this. Huttball is different, I applaud Bioware for that, but in its current incarnation I definitely find it unenjoyable (but again thats a personal issue). Either way I expect/hope to see a great many improvements to the game over time. Starting (hopefully for all those Imperial complainers) with the ability to queue for a specific warzone.

 

4) Stealth, I don't know what to say about this one. Really I'd urge you to get over it. People are not able to constantly stealth, its an escape tactic every bit as viable for stealth classes as charge abilities are for melee classes (force leap). It annoys me too, but this is just a game design issue imo, classes with stealth would get murdalized without it.

 

5) Stuns suck, crowd control sucks, this is a constant issue in PvP and hopefully one Bioware intends to address. Resolve is not (contrary to popular opinion) worthless, but the current state of crowd control in PvP is a bit much I agree.

 

6) Class balance, ugh. People will complain about class balance as long as PvP is a part of any game, it is an unfortunate inevitability. Just to counter OPs point however, I find Marauders one of the most mind-numbingly annoying and "OP" classes to deal with in Huttball, its all a matter of perceptions. I expect class balance to be a constant ebb and flow in SWTOR... as it sadly is in every game due to complaints of X or Y class being too good/bad. Ultimately all this leads to is an unstable constantly changing PvP game for all of us, hooray.

 

7?) If there were one thing I'd like to see to fix PvP atm it would be the adding of a bracketing system. 10-30, 31-49, 50 or even just 10-49, 50 would work just fine imo, but essentially I feel like I should avoid PvP until 50 at the moment purely for want not to cost my team victory due to an under leveled character without expertise gear. The difference between a 10 and a 50 is more than substantial enough that it currently feels inappropriate and the longer this goes without being fixed the more imbalanced the PvP system will end up in the long run as a result of 50s grinding through lowbies to get all of their high end gear before the change/fix.

[Tindahbawx]

Be nice if they give your class a shorter cooldown on the stunbreaker then other classes, like 30 seconds or so.

 

I tried playing Maurader myself, but it does less damage than my BH, I have to be in Melee range to do any damage whatsoever, and a ranged class juking from side to side and kiting will be able to mitigate a decent portion of that damage, simply due to "you are not facing your target".

 

I saw no real reason to play it over BH other than hitting things with glowsticks is kinda funky, so I'll stick with BH till theres some changes.

 

Although, if its any consolation, in the looking good while killing stakes, Two lightsabers is definitely better than my wee blaster pistol.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Tindahbawx

[Fox_McCloud]

Allow me to sum up the pvp problems of most importance.

 

1. Remove Huttball - Or alternatively allow us to check box which warzones we want to be in queue for, so that we can uncheck huttball.

 

2. Give valor/commendations/experience/credits for world PvP kills

 

Simple. Get fixing it bioware. Now.

[OGPurps]

5. Stuns in combat (from a marauder's perspective)

many classes get multiple stuns that will keep a played stunned even if they are taking direct damage. this is bs, total bs.

 

Guess what i can do? I can choke you for 3 seconds, which is a channel, meaning i can't do anything else. If i spend a ton of points i can make my 3 second ravage ability immobilize you during the duration (also a channel.) hmm. Notice a pattern? I can't stun, cc, or otherwise immobilize you like other (still melee based) classes can. Granted, i do get an aoe stun for 6 seconds.. that wears off if the target takes damage. how is this balance?

 

i feel you man i think that every single day

[Naroga]

As a Jedi Sentinel (a brother from another mother), all of these points are valid.

 

I don't mind Huttball, but it may be because I'm Republic and don't get it as often as Empire.

[Ceraz]

As a Jedi Sentinel (a brother from another mother), all of these points are valid.

 

I don't mind Huttball, but it may be because I'm Republic and don't get it as often as Empire.

 

I'm jealous. Honestly, I wouldn't mind Huttball so much if it gave commendations for actually playing the game and doing objectives. I just played a round and scored 3 times in a row.. yet I ended up with both less commendations and MVP votes as a bounty hunter who simply murdered people from the safety of the top of a catwalk. Really? This is how you reward team-based objective playing?

[Ceraz]

Be nice if they give your class a shorter cooldown on the stunbreaker then other classes, like 30 seconds or so.

 

I tried playing Maurader myself, but it does less damage than my BH, I have to be in Melee range to do any damage whatsoever, and a ranged class juking from side to side and kiting will be able to mitigate a decent portion of that damage, simply due to "you are not facing your target".

 

I saw no real reason to play it over BH other than hitting things with glowsticks is kinda funky, so I'll stick with BH till theres some changes.

 

Although, if its any consolation, in the looking good while killing stakes, Two lightsabers is definitely better than my wee blaster pistol.

 

Honestly, I started a Merc BH for fun to see how I like it. I've always played melee classes (normally tanks) and loved it, but this is something new. It makes me feel like my Marauder is kind of worthless because my BH can do (almost) as much damage from a range with heavier armor.. It just makes me scratch my head and say, "Wait, what?"

[LordMorning]

What you said was basically the entirety of my post. I am typically top 3 on the Warzone leaderboards regardless due to skill and knowing who/when to fight. However, that does not make up for the sheer lack of nonsense that is constant CC's and the lack of any ability to counter them, or do them myself. This is exactly what I want, to be able to avoid being stunlocked and be able to actually play some PvP.

 

In terms of a game like Huttball, I am great at picking off single targets near the center of the level. Any time there is combat near the catwalks, I tend to avoid it because I simply cannot compete there. If I use 'force charge' to gain position on someone, I can almost be guaranteed that I will be immediately knocked off the catwalk, or into a fire trap and stunlocked. It's simply not fun and there's not really anything I can do to prevent it with the exception of avoiding those critical areas of a match all together.

 

Consider this, Not everyone can do well at PVP. There will be winners and losers, and more often than not people overestimate their skill level by parsecs. Perhaps you should take an objective step back and think for yourself about the issues beyond the L2P ones and think Are these failings of the class intended by the devs?

[Ceraz]

Consider this, Not everyone can do well at PVP. There will be winners and losers, and more often than not people overestimate their skill level by parsecs. Perhaps you should take an objective step back and think for yourself about the issues beyond the L2P ones and think Are these failings of the class intended by the devs?

 

I just find it strange that my class may not have 'been designed' to assist directly for scoring/defending the points and instead and relegated to 'Rebound-Protection-Duty'. It just doesn't make that much sense, does it?

[LordMorning]

I just find it strange that my class may not have 'been designed' to assist directly for scoring/defending the points and instead and relegated to 'Rebound-Protection-Duty'. It just doesn't make that much sense, does it?

 

On a basketball team you have guys with physical skills for scoring, guys for rebounding, and guys for defense/passing. Do I think these roles were consciously intended for this game?, no. However I think these roles are what the class falls into within the constraints of that particular warzone. What this leads to however is people wanting to play outside of their class niche because that niche does not fit their playstyle in every other area of the game.

[Ceraz]

On a basketball team you have guys with physical skills for scoring, guys for rebounding, and guys for defense/passing. Do I think these roles were consciously intended for this game?, no. However I think these roles are what the class falls into within the constraints of that particular warzone. What this leads to however is people wanting to play outside of their class niche because that niche does not fit their playstyle in every other area of the game.

 

I totally understand what you're saying, I just feel like this is a slight oversight on the dev's part. When they (if, hopefully) fix up Huttball so scoring and doing more objective based things actually rewards commnedations, I'd not like to be completely robbed of the ability to participate that way as well.

[Vetril]

It's not a slight, don't take it as something negative. Great games have been designed on specialization and team work that relies on different classes to get the job done. Team Fortress 2 comes to mind. Now I'm not saying all classes are equally viable right now cause they aren't, but having different competences on them is a good thing imho

[LordMorning]

I totally understand what you're saying, I just feel like this is a slight oversight on the dev's part. When they (if, hopefully) fix up Huttball so scoring and doing more objective based things actually rewards commnedations, I'd not like to be completely robbed of the ability to participate that way as well.

 

Id like to see 5 things done for huttball

 

1. Marked reward gain for scoring

2. Marked gain for killing and dealing damage to the ball carrier

3. Marked gain for competing a pass

4. Removal of one side gate to each side before the scoring line, allowing for a choice of path either through the fire walks, or the longer walk around. (Basically an $ path from neutral ball to scoring line)

5. The announcer says "get the ball across any way you can" Why can't we throw it across?

 

The game can be made better for all classes just by tweaking the game and giving each class a place shine, but keeping the current issues so no one shines everywhere.

Edited January 3, 2012 by LordMorning

[Gouzukai]

As i really understand how the op feels, i couldn't disagree more about jedi knight / sith warriors beeing underpowered. The first time i entered a warzone with my sentinel i was around lvl 28 and was amazed how easy it is to focus someone down sometimes even if there are mutliple targets on you. Forceleap -> hamstring(or how it's called xD) -> 3 second channel 6,5 k easywin button. After that bladestorm with 100% critchance and boom. Even lvl 40- 50 will be at 10% heatlth after that. And then there are 100 ways to finish him off. Oh you get focused? Np just pop rebuke and saberward. Problem solved.... It gets even more ridiculous if you have a healer on your side. At this point you are almost unkillable.

No focus for dmg? easy just pop zealous strike . Enemy to tanky? still np just precision strike.

It's not the job of a sentinel to stun something. You are the offtank you go in and something dies before you. Sentinels/marauders have imo the highest singletarget output in the game.

On top of that we still get a 3 sec channel stun that supresses the enemy while we get focus to to keep our dps up. If there is a mate, this is a free kill. AND on top of that we have some sort of stealth too. With the short cd of forceleap and the spamable hamstring i rarely loose meleerange. I have so many abilities i often forget to use them and realize i would have gotten the kill even faster.

 

Okay, maybe i am new to this game and i dont have the insight and exp. that most of you have, but what i get is that it means something when i am one of the top 3 player in terms of dmg and kills in almost all warzones i won, despite the fact that i am only lvl 30.

 

blabla bla nuff said

[Multox]

Excellent post. Especially the points on stuns.

[Vandrago]

I just realized how much I typed... Sorry.

 

I really think I brought up some good points thought, even if they have been brought up countless times before.

 

They had this problem in EQ2 pvp with stealth and evac before they finally fixed it. What really ruined pvp in that game, besides class balance, was K/D ratio, only time people would fight is if they knew for a fact they would win, or had a group and you were solo.

 

I don't understand how they even thought it was a good idea to put 50's in the same wz as everyone else. We've been putting up with a 50 operative that throws the ball to the other team, then burns down the ball carrier. If you're killing him, he just stealth's and runs off.

 

I'm curious where these game designers come from, it's as though they have never played a game before and just toss in stupid idea's.

[Ceraz]

They had this problem in EQ2 pvp with stealth and evac before they finally fixed it. What really ruined pvp in that game, besides class balance, was K/D ratio, only time people would fight is if they knew for a fact they would win, or had a group and you were solo.

 

I don't understand how they even thought it was a good idea to put 50's in the same wz as everyone else. We've been putting up with a 50 operative that throws the ball to the other team, then burns down the ball carrier. If you're killing him, he just stealth's and runs off.

 

I'm curious where these game designers come from, it's as though they have never played a game before and just toss in stupid idea's.

 

It's good that you understand where I'm coming from, because I was doing PvP in EQ2 as well. I never liked WoW because it felt so flat and.. easy. You know exactly what I mean when I'm talking about the outline and such..

[Ceraz]

Id like to see 5 things done for huttball

 

1. Marked reward gain for scoring

2. Marked gain for killing and dealing damage to the ball carrier

3. Marked gain for competing a pass

4. Removal of one side gate to each side before the scoring line, allowing for a choice of path either through the fire walks, or the longer walk around. (Basically an $ path from neutral ball to scoring line)

5. The announcer says "get the ball across any way you can" Why can't we throw it across?

 

The game can be made better for all classes just by tweaking the game and giving each class a place shine, but keeping the current issues so no one shines everywhere.

 

This would be amazing, minus the last one. I could see that being a bit too ridiculous.

[Jooji]

I read "stealth is op" then laughed and couldn't take your thread seriously.

 

I would trade stealth for your charge/leap and defensive cd any day of the week.

 

Marauders hit like a truck and have insane mobility. They do also tend to get focused, but hey that's what healers are for. Maybe give your healers some love in mvp votes and they'll actually heal you.

[LordMorning]

This would be amazing, minus the last one. I could see that being a bit too ridiculous.

 

You think so? I think it would give the teams that end up on the short end of the RNG level 50 player selection stick a fighting chance. I guess im still feeling the derp from when I tried it.

Edited January 3, 2012 by LordMorning

[Bongwasserfisch]

/sign

 

marauder in pvp is the biggest fail - jump to an enemy...kicked back (because everyone is able to kick....dont know what item it is - but as a melee there is no sense to do it the same way;) )....dead

and ravage suxx all the way...every 2nd time my character became stucked when i use this spell...i make the movement and cant break it...but i can use it after i get free to move again and if nothing of this happens you will be kicked out of battleground because the door after ur dead and you are standing before didnt open...pvp isnt beta....there is no pvp - there is just a joke and wasted money....im going to quit this game and perhaps i'll rejoin the game in 3 months...bye

[_Zorth_]

Agreed, Altough I'm not a marauder but a Juggernaut it's just as annoying when I'm about to kill somebody and they either disappear into stealth and I never see them again or a geared up lvl 50 Consular/Inquisitor appears out of nowhere and kills me.