PvP and Why It Sucks (As a level 50 Marauder)

[Ceraz]

You must not know how to play one then, like 70% of this thread is already saying, you have to learn first before you can cry about it, they have alot of tools to use, its not for the faceroll kids at home, so l2p...

 

Without dedicated back-up, a Marauder will fall on its face far faster than any other class.

[Ceraz]

Incorrect.

 

1. Marauders don't do any more damage than any other DPS spec'd class in the game.

 

2. They are pure melee outside of sabre tosses.

 

3. 1 hard CC, its melee range, and its channeled.

 

4. Average survivability, strictly in terms of soaking damage. Other classes may be squishier, but they have a lot more CC, heals, range/kite that make them harder to kill.

 

However good you may or may not be with a Marauder, you would be doing even better playing any other class in the game currently. Its not even up for debate.

 

Marauder is perfectly fine in PvE, but for PvP it falls flat on its face. Anyone playing Marauder would've been better off rolling as a DPS Jugger.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am mad at myself now for not rolling Juggernaut for many reasons, including not being able to do much in PvP without being in a pre-made group. The Marauder is pretty much a pure-melee warrior in a game that uses a lot of hard-core ranged damage and tanking. In a 1v1 with a Republic Trooper / Bounty Hunter, I will typically lose because these classes can kite me, have way heavier armor than I can penetrate in time, and sometimes can even heal themselves. Marauders have one CC break, no real CC's with the exception of force-choke which is both melee-range and channeled (Like you said in #3) and typically are better suited to PvE than PvP.

 

I would really like to see how this so called 'PvP-Team' of Developers is working on balance and commendation/gear alternatives instead of hearing they are going to be manufacturing warzones over and over.

[Ghingis]

Incorrect.

 

1. Marauders don't do any more damage than any other DPS spec'd class in the game.

 

2. They are pure melee outside of sabre tosses.

 

3. 1 hard CC, its melee range, and its channeled.

 

4. Average survivability, strictly in terms of soaking damage. Other classes may be squishier, but they have a lot more CC, heals, range/kite that make them harder to kill.

 

However good you may or may not be with a Marauder, you would be doing even better playing any other class in the game currently. Its not even up for debate.

 

Marauder is perfectly fine in PvE, but for PvP it falls flat on its face. Anyone playing Marauder would've been better off rolling as a DPS Jugger.

 

Woah, If you say its not up for debate I am sure the class is crap, and that your opinion weighs higher then mine.

 

You do realize that it is completely different in-game then how it looks in paper, right?

 

If you would give us all the CC abilities of any other class we would just be straight out retarded. If I got a stun I would be able to steamroll anyone that doesnt have trinket before they can do anything whatsoever.

 

I think its just you not knowing the class, say whatever you want, but I am doing completely amazing in PvP against everything.

[Afortunado]

Seriously signed. When will there actually be a reason to bring a melee class to a fight other than a tank.

 

Melee DPS should always be higher than Ranged DPS. I've never understood why I would ever roll another MDPS until dev's figure that out. Pew Pew classes need to be brought in line in this game.

[Mase_Yevon]

I'm a level 50 Juggernaut and I'm sick of Huttball. Force Charge, knockback into flame pit, move to get out stun, break stun, second stun, flame triggers, I die. The Warrior classes are at a severe disadvantage with the way Huttball is setup, on the other warzones the difference in power levels isn't so staggering.

[Ceraz]

Woah, If you say its not up for debate I am sure the class is crap, and that your opinion weighs higher then mine.

 

You do realize that it is completely different in-game then how it looks in paper, right?

 

If you would give us all the CC abilities of any other class we would just be straight out retarded. If I got a stun I would be able to steamroll anyone that doesnt have trinket before they can do anything whatsoever.

 

I think its just you not knowing the class, say whatever you want, but I am doing completely amazing in PvP against everything.

 

I don't think he's suggesting that we want the Marauder to turn into some sort of übermensch, just being able to compete in a PvP world where stuns literally are more powerful than outright DPS.

[Ceraz]

I'm a level 50 Juggernaut and I'm sick of Huttball. Force Charge, knockback into flame pit, move to get out stun, break stun, second stun, flame triggers, I die. The Warrior classes are at a severe disadvantage with the way Huttball is setup, on the other warzones the difference in power levels isn't so staggering.

 

That's what I tried to bring up about the current Huttball arena. It's made for ranged ambushes and sniping. If you get knocked off the catwalks, it will take approx. 20-40 seconds to get back to where you were depending on flame traps and such. That's insane!

[tomkeifer]

As a Vanguard I can tell you that I don't have a push back. Instead I got something that pull people to me... it's really not reliable since half of the time it fire but doesn't pull the player. and I'm lvl 44 right now I'm having trouble questing even if im wearing the best gear avaible for my lvl. same for my companions.

[Sildrin]

So you can jump over the fire in hut ball is that ok? No other class can do that. So if you take our stealh away then lets take your jump and leep to a secound floor away.

 

This.

 

Every class has it's weakness, and from the post, yes, I read it, you seem to cry about the benefits other classes have while not discussing the benefits you yourself have.

 

Namely:

 

4. Stealth in Combat

I don't think that anyone should be able to have permanent stealth when they are listed as 'in combat'.

 

This is not a new concept. It's a 3 minute cool down and akin to "vanish" and yes, it works exactly like that. And why shouldn't there be stealthers? Just because you don't like them? Well sorry, I don't like when a marauder is on my *** and force chokes me over a firepit, but that doesn't stop you from doing it to me, does it?

 

 

So while I agree with most of this thread, I could definitely see the "QQ they they they" while not mentioning your own OP'ness.

[Kromzor]

Woah, If you say its not up for debate I am sure the class is crap, and that your opinion weighs higher then mine.

 

You do realize that it is completely different in-game then how it looks in paper, right?

 

If you would give us all the CC abilities of any other class we would just be straight out retarded. If I got a stun I would be able to steamroll anyone that doesnt have trinket before they can do anything whatsoever.

 

I think its just you not knowing the class, say whatever you want, but I am doing completely amazing in PvP against everything.

 

So outside of the single target, 10m range, 20% healing debuff what advantage does a Marauder have over a DPS Jugg in PvP? Sure, there is that vanish, but then the Jugg (even DPS spec'd) is a lot tankier by default and other classes have stealth breakers (I uncover people that vanish about 80% of the time). And the PvP gear doesn't give much of a HP boost, which hurts the scaling on Annihilation's spotty %hp heals.

[oflow]

I played a guardian and I agree with most of what the OP said.

 

Many classes currently have imbalanced stuns that dont break on damage like they are supposed to or can be fired and forgotten not channeled.

 

Once they actually bring out the combat log there are going to be a lot of unhappy campers that play the up classes because they will either have to nerf them or buff the melee classes, both of which will have people QQing hard.

[Kromzor]

I don't think he's suggesting that we want the Marauder to turn into some sort of übermensch, just being able to compete in a PvP world where stuns literally are more powerful than outright DPS.

 

Yeah, its a funny thing.

 

The Marauder class doesn't need "buffs" in the classic sense, it needs to be reworked. It has that feeling of being the last class that was worked on, and thus had the fewest hours of development. The numbers are there, the substance/polish is not.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Kromzor

[mordredz]

Without dedicated back-up, a Marauder will fall on its face far faster than any other class.

 

So will any other class jumping into the middle of a group there genius...

 

If a scoundrel gets pulled out of stealth its GG for them, again all in how you play and your ability to play...

[mordredz]

/signed, comming from a sith jug, which only stun is a CHANNEL force choke, and only real cc is a force crush, which is an end tier ability in my talent tree..

 

Melee in general in this game are so broken and weak that it actually keeps me from playing untill they fix it.

 

cheers

 

Then stop playing, and later, dont need ppl crying to the point of quiting a game when its been out 2 weeks...

 

Seeya...

[Gaahlskagg]

Completely agree with the points about Marauder. It is extremely frustrating and plain not fun as a Marauder in Huttball.

[Ceraz]

Yeah, its a funny thing.

 

The Marauder class doesn't need "buffs" in the classic sense, it needs to be reworked. It has that feeling of being the last class that was worked on, and thus had the fewest hours of development. The numbers are there, the substance/polish is not.

 

I can totally see this, that or no devs taking the time to play a Marauder/Sentinel. The issues are so glaring in PvP (Not so much in PvE) that it's astounding that there's no tweaking going on.

[Ghingis]

I don't think he's suggesting that we want the Marauder to turn into some sort of übermensch, just being able to compete in a PvP world where stuns literally are more powerful than outright DPS.

 

Although they are already competing, on a very high level aswell.

I am immortal in BG's at the moment and aslong as I do not overextend into 4 or more people I will simply not die. Ontop of this I have yet to see any class that has the same amount of damage as me either, except for freely casting Snipers possibly, but I just go on any ranged that sits in one place spamming one key.

[Ghingis]

So outside of the single target, 10m range, 20% healing debuff what advantage does a Marauder have over a DPS Jugg in PvP? Sure, there is that vanish, but then the Jugg (even DPS spec'd) is a lot tankier by default and other classes have stealth breakers (I uncover people that vanish about 80% of the time). And the PvP gear doesn't give much of a HP boost, which hurts the scaling on Annihilation's spotty %hp heals.

 

We have so incredibly much more burst then a tank can ever have, a tank in PvP right now hitting on a geared target is just there to be annoying, because they actually do not do any lethatl damage. The hardest hitting abilities comes from Rage, and if they go Rage they will still do way less damage then a Marauder.

[Ghingis]

Yeah, its a funny thing.

 

The Marauder class doesn't need "buffs" in the classic sense, it needs to be reworked. It has that feeling of being the last class that was worked on, and thus had the fewest hours of development. The numbers are there, the substance/polish is not.

 

I honestly dont think this class has to be touched at all right now, currently it is in a very good place and with a few tweaks onto other classes we will be more then great.

[Ghingis]

I can totally see this, that or no devs taking the time to play a Marauder/Sentinel. The issues are so glaring in PvP (Not so much in PvE) that it's astounding that there's no tweaking going on.

 

The only issue I have in PvP is the ability delay, which every class is effected by so I just need to sit back and wait for them to fix it.

[Scathan]

Before I begin, I'd like to take a moment and talk about the game in general. It is a fantastic game, based on rich lore and beautiful back story with almost unlimited potential. This could literally be a game that brings people who have never been interested in MMOs into them based on the license alone. However, there are many, many, many issues that will possibly affect that, and I'm going to touch on some of them a bit. Please try to read the whole thing so that an honest discussion can take place.

 

1. Playing on a PvP Server

My main is a 50 Sith Marauder on the Death Wind Corridor server. I have always loved open world PvP and have partaken in it gleefully since the days of the Second Age of Ultima Online (before the concept of having a world where PvP couldn't happen existed) and really enjoy the risk and reward aspect.

 

Yes, I said risk and reward. So I'm trudging along for a while on Tatooine when I finally come across my first Republic player in the open world. I quickly get a jump on him and after fighting him for a few moments, I get that exciting deathblow... annndd... nothing. Nothing happened. There was no XP bonus, no form of token, not even a 'valor' increase.

 

With this idea of added risk, there needs to be a reward. Without it, I've found that other players will avoid PvP even on a PvP server and typically try to go around the others, even if they have a level advantage. This needs to change and a simple way to fix that would be to add rewards. Simply add something like... Mercenary Commendations for open world PvP.

 

2. The Commendation System

Speaking of Commendations... the current system for getting them is absolutely terrible. Currently, the only two ways to get Mercenary Commendations is to 1) Trade 30 Warzone Commendations for 10 Mercenary Commendations (3:1! That's insane!) OR get lucky and find a chest in the Outlaw's Group PvP zone on Tatooine.. which was recently stealth nerfed into oblivion.

 

What needs to be done? Make commendations more available and frankly, worth getting. Doing obscene numbers of warzones isn't fun, engaging, or even challenging. It's getting to the point where I can see someone paying someone else to play a warzone for them, seeing as how you still get a decent number even on a loss.

 

3. Warzone Balance

Part 1: The Spaceship (Assault)

Oh boy. Let's talk about this colossal failure. So if you've never played it (which I imagine many of you haven't after being forced to play Huttball until your eyes bleed), basically the two teams get a turn of assaulting a level by planting a bomb (3 or 5 second click, I can't remember as I've only played it very few times) on a door. The typical 'shield door with random timer' as in Huttball is present for every time you die, causing this one to be even more infuriating than Huttball.

 

The major issues with this are the Jedi Consular/Sith Inquisitor classes (and believe me, I'll talk more about certain parts of them later.) They can literally run past everyone stealthed and run right up to the door, making the only viable strategy on defense NOT to block the oncoming attack, but to babysit a door. To make matters worse, if one bomb goes off they proceed to the next stage, making this heavily stacked for the offense. Even worse, is that these same classes I mentioned before have that lovely 'speed burst' skill and can literally get to the next door bomb location before you can get out of the spawn if you are unlucky. To be honest, the only ways I can think of fixing this awful game is to make it so that the door releases more often for the defenders and to possibly make the bomb time longer than 3 or 5 seconds?

 

Part 2: Huttball

Yeah. You know this one because it's probably the only one you ever get to play. It's boring, it's not exactly in the spirit of PvP, and honestly if you play the game objectively (scoring the ball for example) you'll end up with less commendations/xp/rewards than someone who just ran around and murdered people.

 

The Arena:

Lets talk about the Arena from a Marauders point of view. I come down from the spawn, and there's a large ledge where the score zone is that can only be reached by ramps. Ok, that means that anyone can't just walk up and score. At least, that's the intention. Every class to my knowledge (Except the Jedi Sentinel) get some form of push or knockback. Even the other specialization of the Sith Warrior gets 'Force Push' which lets them push people off of these ramps. Me? Not a single one.

 

The ramps are frustrating alone as it is when you take into account just knockbacks and pushes even from a purely defensive standpoint when you have NONE of the abilities both your team-mates and opponents have. To make matters worse, there are flame traps. Guess what gets used on flame traps all the time? stuns. I'll talk more about stuns later, but in terms of PvP in general these are ridiculous...

 

What can I say to make this arena any better? Maybe add an ability in Huttball that lets players get somewhere near their defense zone? Better yet, add more approaches to being able to score. As it is, Huttball is simply infuriating to play as someone who cannot defend the score zone or a ball carrier on a ramp because they get knocked down and have to wait 15 seconds for 'force charge' to cooldown.

 

4. Stealth in Combat

Know what one of the most frustrating things in PvP is? Know that moment right when you're about to get a kill on someone who may have even ambushed you from stealth only to have them stealth up and totally disappear? That's garbage. I don't think that anyone should be able to have permanent stealth when they are listed as 'in combat'. If you cannot use your heal self ability while in combat, why have a permanent stealth with 100% invisibility in PvP? To make this make more sense, I think that in PvP the outline should always be in effect if they are listed as in combat. Otherwise, we will continue to see ridiculous numbers of these stealth classes (especially Inquisitors and Consulars) if the warzones continue to cater to them.

 

5. Stuns in Combat (From a Marauder's Perspective)

Speaking of other nonsense, let's talk about stuns. They are incredibly useful in PvE and still useful in PvP. What's not OK (at least from a Marauder standpoint) is how these are used in PvP. Many classes get multiple stuns that will keep a played stunned even if they are taking direct damage. This is BS, total BS.

 

Guess what I can do? I can choke you for 3 seconds, which is a channel, meaning I can't do anything else. If I spend a ton of points I can make my 3 second ravage ability immobilize you during the duration (also a channel.) Hmm. Notice a pattern? I can't stun, cc, or otherwise immobilize you like other (still melee based) classes can. Granted, I do get an AoE stun for 6 seconds.. that wears off if the target takes damage. How is this balance?

 

I get an ability take gets rid of any movement, hold, or stun effect that can be used once every two minutes. In terms of Huttball, that's about.. maybe.. 4 times a match? I have to pick which exact stun I break free from and hope that I don't get chain-stunned by another stun from a class that has multiple ones right away. This needs to stop. There needs to be a stun/hold immunity in PvP.

 

6. Marauders in General

I know, I know, this is where I talk about my class getting the short end of the stick, and everyone else is OP. But I've noticed some things both with playing with other classes, and playing those classes myself. I seem to be able to do amazing dps, until I compare myself with a Sith Assassin, who is also a melee dps. I figure, no problem. I'm probably more durable than they are because I have heavier armor. Honestly, this isn't the case. A Sith Assassin is more likely to be an offtank than a Marauder. Why is this? I come from the same archtype class as the Juggernaut. Shouldn't I be more of an off-tank than them?

 

I strongly believe that the Marauder needs some sort of boost for both PvP and PvE. Leveling from 40-50 was an utter nightmare after the mobs started hitting noticeably harder (Around Hoth?) and made the game almost unplayable even though both my companion and I were geared quite well for my level and forced me to rely on medpacks.

 

What can be done? Either boost the Sith Marauders survivability or dps. I think the survivability makes more sense seeing as how we come from the 'Sith Warrior' archtype.

 

Conclusion

Well, I honestly hope you read in earnest what I wrote up to this point instead of just skimming it. I want to say that I didn't take the time to write all this out because I'm 'doomsaying' or saying 'how this game sucks', but quite the opposite. I love this game and I want it to succeed. I want to be playing this game 6 or more years from now and enjoying it as much as I have been up until this point. I know it's just the start and things will eventually get better, but I hope my ideas have some sort of push to get the gears rolling on that change. Thanks for reading.

 

 

1. Jedi knight/ Sith warrior are probably the strongest class in the game bar none for the combat aspect of pvp, the sheer amount of defensive cd's you have is staggering, and you have a 1 minute cd i win button that aoe crits people for 4k+, if you can't do that, you're doin it wrong.

 

 

2. Void Star, you obviously are a bad pvp'er if that is your take on void star, sorry, but yes, as defense, you should be DEFENDING the points that the offense is trying to take, its common strategy to try to pull combat away from the door to have stealth classes take them unnoticed, if you fall for this, its your fault, not the games, let me sum up for you

FIGHT ON FLAG, FIGHT ON DOORS, FIGHT ON TURRET CONSOLES, never let these things be ninja'd.

 

btw. Force slow, 150% speed, two seconds, 30 second cd. there is NO WAY a shadow/assassin can get to the door stealthed before your entire team can get to the door as defense. period, what happened was, like an idiot, you didnt walk out the door when the match started, and so you got locked in when the respawn timer started.

 

3. oh ya, you play huttball because you and most of the population rolled sith, you want to play other warzones? roll alliance, The fact that sith only get to play huttball is self inflicted.

 

4. You know what the most frustrating thing about combat is? when your about to get a kill on someone and you get OUTPLAYED, that is all. Cry more. Your class is powerful, learn to play it.

 

5. No you shouldnt be more of a tank than an assassin shadow, you come from the jediknight, which splits into tank, or light armor dps. The assasin/shadow IS a tank. Derp. you chose the dps class. They chose a tank class.

 

6. Stuns, learn to understand resolve, which stuns to break, and make sure you healers know they can dispel stuns. your lack of stuns, you picked the dps class, you have a ******** of defense cooldowns that make you UNKILLABLE for 5 seconds when you use them correctly, in addition to a vanish. and an aoe stun, a knock back, and just straight forward craploads of damage. The juggernaught btw, has a force choke that is no longer channeled, and he can ravage you while you are choking.

 

7. Stealth is fine. in fact, stealth is the weakest i have ever seen in an mmo, its very easy to catch someone.

 

 

tldr. Im sorry, but you simply do not play your class well.

[Scathan]

I can totally see this, that or no devs taking the time to play a Marauder/Sentinel. The issues are so glaring in PvP (Not so much in PvE) that it's astounding that there's no tweaking going on.

 

no need to be tweaked, you guys simply dont understand the class you picked. people like you just need to wait until people make guides to tell you how to play, then you will be fine. so just be patient.

[Scathan]

That's what I tried to bring up about the current Huttball arena. It's made for ranged ambushes and sniping. If you get knocked off the catwalks, it will take approx. 20-40 seconds to get back to where you were depending on flame traps and such. That's insane!

 

Protip, pass the goddamn ball.

[Yezhik]

LOL I understand this, and there are valid points, but calling Voidstar, "spaceship" and even stating that you played this only a couple of times(in which case you can't possibly have higher ranking than valor 10) makes me think you're overreacting.

 

I'm valor rank 56, and the guild mates that I pvp with have worked around carrying 4-8 ppl, just by simple voice communication and experience.

 

We win 9 out of 10 matches as republic, losing only because we slip up, we get 5 level 10-20s or they have a better team than us.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Yezhik

[Gabil]

I agree only with your part about open world pvp. I dont play a marauder so I don't know about the class specifics. The warzone complaints I find to just be stupid IMO.