PvP and Why It Sucks (As a level 50 Marauder)

[Bongwasserfisch]

I read "stealth is op" then laughed and couldn't take your thread seriously.

 

I would trade stealth for your charge/leap and defensive cd any day of the week.

 

Marauders hit like a truck and have insane mobility. They do also tend to get focused, but hey that's what healers are for. Maybe give your healers some love in mvp votes and they'll actually heal you.

 

 

never heard such a ********...u cant hit because you are not able to go to an enemy because knockback inc. ! and there is too much crowdcontrol and too many slows that a marauder isnt able to fist really hard....well lets say...if u are the one who gets smashed by a marauder...then I couldn't take YOUR thread seriously.

 

and: it isnt a class who got the movement...its the player

Edited January 3, 2012 by Bongwasserfisch

[Gouzukai]

Who says you have to use forceleap as an opener. I dont know what the ability is called but as sentinel you can stealth yourself for 3-4 secs while running 30% faster. Great way to close the gap before you have to forceleap.

 

The point most people dont realize is that u have to keep the sentinel away from you or else you die in about 10 secs....

[LordMorning]

/sign

 

marauder in pvp is the biggest fail - jump to an enemy...kicked back (because everyone is able to kick....dont know what item it is - but as a melee there is no sense to do it the same way;) )....dead

and ravage suxx all the way...every 2nd time my character became stucked when i use this spell...i make the movement and cant break it...but i can use it after i get free to move again and if nothing of this happens you will be kicked out of battleground because the door after ur dead and you are standing before didnt open...pvp isnt beta....there is no pvp - there is just a joke and wasted money....im going to quit this game and perhaps i'll rejoin the game in 3 months...bye

 

If you are force leaping to someone that has not used their knockback yet, you are the one in error. The game is not broken because you are not pushing your buttons in the proper order. If you can't be sure, find another player to take down. Think on your feet rather than tunnel visioning the first red name you see.

 

The devs can fix alot of broken things, they cannot fix bad players.

[Shadow-Republic]

Agree with this post. Its basically what ive posted in some ways probably nicer than my version, lol.

 

But its not just your class im playing a jedi knight guardian and between lvl 40-50 its been hard also but i think thats just the game now pushing you to learn how to use your character to the best effect.

 

But and yes a BIG but, the pvp warzone matches are a pile of poo at the moment. It is outweighted in many ways being empire having huge and better pvp capabilities due to many aspects and just troll the threads and you will see the pattern. I hope they will even this out and fix other aspects of the game.

 

I guess we are either patient and hope or some will end up leaving swtor in the process. I hope im not part of the leaving. And it's only down to the devs to sort this asap for all of us players and make this a more enjoyable place to play for all.

[Wraithwarr]

You should roll Republic. We never see Huttball. You are forced to play it because you went Sith along with 70% of the population.

[Bongwasserfisch]

Who says you have to use forceleap as an opener. I dont know what the ability is called but as sentinel you can stealth yourself for 3-4 secs while running 30% faster. Great way to close the gap before you have to forceleap.

 

The point most people dont realize is that u have to keep the sentinel away from you or else you die in about 10 secs....

 

doesnt matter...in a battleground u fight against 2 or 3 peoples...every time....maybe u run to him and didnt forceleap...u will be kicked the first time....so u forceleap and the other one kicks u away.....its always the same....and this suxx really hard and has nothing to do with pvp....pvp means player vs player and not class vs class - and thats the prob...look and the first 4 ranks after a battleground and u will see what i mean...there is always 1 class at the top....and this is fail

[Jooji]

and: it isnt a class who got the movement...its the player

 

lol. You sound like a terribad. Just sayin.

[MBirkhofer]

If you are force leaping to someone that has not used their knockback yet, you are the one in error. The game is not broken because you are not pushing your buttons in the proper order. If you can't be sure, find another player to take down. Think on your feet rather than tunnel visioning the first red name you see.

 

The devs can fix alot of broken things, they cannot fix bad players.

 

and... what exactly is the guy I'm running up to doing while I am running at him? Standing there waiting for me to get into melee range?

sure ok, camo. but last time I checked, I hear that same nonsense about camo. Derp, you didn't use camo as a get out of jail? well, thats your problem.

 

 

Group pvp, and you run up to 2 sorcs, or a sorc+ gunslinger, etc. lol. yeah. good one.

that gunslinger/sniper will be laughing at you, while he locks you into place.

you have to los them, or hope someone is dumb enough to stand next to them for you.

 

And I said it before. 1v1. leap first. no one has "THAT" much cc to lock you down through all your CD's. yes, there is some getting thrown around. but unless there is a major gear variance, you ought to have the advantage. as you do have mobility moves that work in 1v1. zleap, +speed boosts, transcendence, roots, shorter cd leaps, etc, depending on the tree.

[Planar]

1. Playing on a PvP Server

My main is a 50 Sith Marauder on the Death Wind Corridor server. I have always loved open world PvP and have partaken in it gleefully since the days of the Second Age of Ultima Online (before the concept of having a world where PvP couldn't happen existed) and really enjoy the risk and reward aspect.

 

Yes, I said risk and reward. So I'm trudging along for a while on Tatooine when I finally come across my first Republic player in the open world. I quickly get a jump on him and after fighting him for a few moments, I get that exciting deathblow... annndd... nothing. Nothing happened. There was no XP bonus, no form of token, not even a 'valor' increase.

 

With this idea of added risk, there needs to be a reward. Without it, I've found that other players will avoid PvP even on a PvP server and typically try to go around the others, even if they have a level advantage. This needs to change and a simple way to fix that would be to add rewards. Simply add something like... Mercenary Commendations for open world PvP.

 

Oh so someone can buy 2 accounts, then make a rep and an emp, then just fight/win each other on their 2 PCs to max out there gear, do you NOT see the flaw in this?

 

Open PvP doesnt need XP, tokens etc. What does it need, How about you kill them you get a percentage of their credits base on your level versus theirs. then that leaves no way for buddies or the same person with 2 accounts to do much more than transfer credits across factions.

 

I would say for an even fight where you land the first blow you get 5% of their creds if you can loot their body after (out of combat), if your jumped first 10% if same level and you win/loot. Then if they are higher level you get more, lower less down to 1%

 

Also a 5 minute window after respawn where they wont loose credits for being jumped at a know spawn point.

 

Now EVEN this limited reward system has flaws, like people mailing their credits to a mule character prior to venturing out, making your credit reward slim.

 

However since there is no way to insure people arent exploiting open PvP for gear, commedations etc this is about the only thing I can think of to make open PvP rewarding beyond knowing you kicked the other sides butt.

[Bongwasserfisch]

lol. You sound like a terribad. Just sayin.

 

read the post to the end or ****....Just sayin....

the game had a long beta-phase....so it isnt new ! it has been "tested" by a lot of people and this what im saying has been said about a half year ago....they released the alpha...

 

i mean: there are always unbalanced classes....sure....but this is a terrible joke...and im terribad...yes....because i paid for this game...and when i know there was a beta-testing-phase is this summary a joke where im not able to laugh about...an if u didnt recognize....there are many other terribads.....so please....keep your mouth shut when u didnt know what you are talking about...thanks

 

and i skilled the shorter cds....but the cd isnt 2 secs yet !

Edited January 3, 2012 by Bongwasserfisch

[LordMorning]

and... what exactly is the guy I'm running up to doing while I am running at him? Standing there waiting for me to get into melee range?

sure ok, camo. but last time I checked, I hear that same nonsense about camo. Derp, you didn't use camo as a get out of jail? well, thats your problem.

 

 

Group pvp, and you run up to 2 sorcs, or a sorc+ gunslinger, etc. lol. yeah. good one.

that gunslinger/sniper will be laughing at you, while he locks you into place.

you have to los them, or hope someone is dumb enough to stand next to them for you.

 

And I said it before. 1v1. leap first. no one has "THAT" much cc to lock you down through all your CD's. yes, there is some getting thrown around. but unless there is a major gear variance, you ought to have the advantage. as you do have mobility moves that work in 1v1. zleap, +speed boosts, transcendence, roots, shorter cd leaps, etc, depending on the tree.

 

I cannot layout a strategy that is going to be the catch all for all your woes. However I can say, find the situations that you can excel in, and do you best to avoid the ones you have little chance of winning. However, if you are going to be like the legions of others here, blaming their class, and the devs for their poor play you won't ever be successful.

[ltankhsd]

1. Playing on a PvP Server

My main is a 50 Sith Marauder on the Death Wind Corridor server. I have always loved open world PvP and have partaken in it gleefully since the days of the Second Age of Ultima Online (before the concept of having a world where PvP couldn't happen existed) and really enjoy the risk and reward aspect.

 

Yes, I said risk and reward. So I'm trudging along for a while on Tatooine when I finally come across my first Republic player in the open world. I quickly get a jump on him and after fighting him for a few moments, I get that exciting deathblow... annndd... nothing. Nothing happened. There was no XP bonus, no form of token, not even a 'valor' increase.

 

With this idea of added risk, there needs to be a reward. Without it, I've found that other players will avoid PvP even on a PvP server and typically try to go around the others, even if they have a level advantage. This needs to change and a simple way to fix that would be to add rewards. Simply add something like... Mercenary Commendations for open world PvP.

 

I'll agree here. I'm on a PvP server too and have killed my share of enemy players but after awhile it seems like both sides are more content to let each other pass and continue questing rather than fight which is fine. I'm not much of a ganker. If I had things my way the open world rewards you talk for killing players about would happen more on Ilum and Outlaws Den on both server rulesets. Otherwise in PvE areas (even on a PvP server) it should be as it is now. You don't want to reward someone for finding out where the other side spawns some elite mob for a quest and then ganking them while they are fighting that elite.

 

2. The Commendation System

Speaking of Commendations... the current system for getting them is absolutely terrible. Currently, the only two ways to get Mercenary Commendations is to 1) Trade 30 Warzone Commendations for 10 Mercenary Commendations (3:1! That's insane!) OR get lucky and find a chest in the Outlaw's Group PvP zone on Tatooine.. which was recently stealth nerfed into oblivion.

 

What needs to be done? Make commendations more available and frankly, worth getting. Doing obscene numbers of warzones isn't fun, engaging, or even challenging. It's getting to the point where I can see someone paying someone else to play a warzone for them, seeing as how you still get a decent number even on a loss.

 

I guess I can agree with this also though at least now that I am 50 as of yesterday it gives me something to work on among other things.

 

3. Warzone Balance

Part 1: Voidstar(Assault)

Oh boy. Let's talk about this colossal failure. So if you've never played it (which I imagine many of you haven't after being forced to play Huttball until your eyes bleed), basically the two teams get a turn of assaulting a level by planting a bomb (8 second click) on a door. The typical 'shield door with random timer' as in Huttball is present for every time you die, causing this one to be even more infuriating than Huttball.

 

Here's where our opinions start to diverge. The shield door is only present for defenders which helps make up for the time the attackers have to run from their spawn to the door.

 

The major issues with this are the Jedi Consular/Sith Inquisitor classes (and believe me, I'll talk more about certain parts of them later.) They can literally run past everyone stealthed and run right up to the door, making the only viable strategy on defense NOT to block the oncoming attack, but to babysit a door. To make matters worse, if one bomb goes off they proceed to the next stage, making this heavily stacked for the offense. Even worse, is that these same classes I mentioned before have that lovely 'speed burst' skill and can literally get to the next door bomb location before you can get out of the spawn if you are unlucky. To be honest, the only ways I can think of fixing this awful game is to make it so that the door releases more often for the defenders and to possibly make the bomb time longer than 3 or 5 seconds?

 

Guarding (not babysitting) the doors is the point of the match. Sorry but the objective can't always be pew pew kill everyone in sight nowhere near the objective. Also I don't have any problems with Consulars as a bounty hunter. Sure they can stealth up to the door but I always keep an eye on it for whatever side I am on. I actually successfully caught a consular twice last night with my BH Powertech's Stealth Scan ability and proceeded to beat him for his indiscretion. Aside from that witht he 8s force speed I also have the tools to Jet Charge him to root him and grapple him back to me and a short snare depending on if I get a proc or not. People have tools, they just have to use them.

 

Part 2: Huttball

Yeah. You know this one because it's probably the only one you ever get to play. It's boring, it's not exactly in the spirit of PvP, and honestly if you play the game objectively (scoring the ball for example) you'll end up with less commendations/xp/rewards than someone who just ran around and murdered people.

 

While huttball does come up a lot I still get a decent mix. But once again I disagree. I like the zone AND I personally get more rewards for participating as intended rather than pewpewing in a corner somewhere that is nowhere near the ball carrier. A guildie and I consistently topped the scoreboard in medals last night by always being around the ball carrier either by attacking their carrier/those helping him or by carrying it outoselves or protecting/healing our own carrier.

 

The Arena:

Lets talk about the Arena from a Marauders point of view. I come down from the spawn, and there's a large ledge where the score zone is that can only be reached by ramps. Ok, that means that anyone can't just walk up and score. At least, that's the intention. Every class to my knowledge (Except the Jedi Sentinel) get some form of push or knockback. Even the other specialization of the Sith Warrior gets 'Force Push' which lets them push people off of these ramps. Me? Not a single one.

 

The ramps are frustrating alone as it is when you take into account just knockbacks and pushes even from a purely defensive standpoint when you have NONE of the abilities both your team-mates and opponents have. To make matters worse, there are flame traps. Guess what gets used on flame traps all the time? stuns. I'll talk more about stuns later, but in terms of PvP in general these are ridiculous...

 

What can I say to make this arena any better? Maybe add an ability in Huttball that lets players get somewhere near their defense zone? Better yet, add more approaches to being able to score. As it is, Huttball is simply infuriating to play as someone who cannot defend the score zone or a ball carrier on a ramp because they get knocked down and have to wait 15 seconds for 'force charge' to cooldown.

 

Save your stun breaks for the fire traps. Also powertechs have one knockback at the very top of the pyrotech tree so I'm not sure you really say we have a knockback. The only thing we reliably have comparable is grappling hook and in order to grapple them and put them in a worse spot than they were you have to have good line of sight which usually means you are on the ground and they are up on the ramps and let me tell you getting line of sight is hard. Aside from that it seems like you want your class which is supposed to be some fo the best damage in game to have more CC abilities on part with other classes. Simply put, NO.

 

4. Stealth in Combat

Know what one of the most frustrating things in PvP is? Know that moment right when you're about to get a kill on someone who may have even ambushed you from stealth only to have them stealth up and totally disappear? That's garbage. I don't think that anyone should be able to have permanent stealth when they are listed as 'in combat'. If you cannot use your heal self ability while in combat, why have a permanent stealth with 100% invisibility in PvP? To make this make more sense, I think that in PvP the outline should always be in effect if they are listed as in combat. Otherwise, we will continue to see ridiculous numbers of these stealth classes (especially Inquisitors and Consulars) if the warzones continue to cater to them.

 

Don't bleeds knock stealthers out of stealth? I can't say for certain but that's what I was told. Anyway once again some classes get the ability to deal with this (Stealth Scan) and some don't. Sorry but you can't have it all.

 

5. Stuns in Combat (From a Marauder's Perspective)

Speaking of other nonsense, let's talk about stuns. They are incredibly useful in PvE and still useful in PvP. What's not OK (at least from a Marauder standpoint) is how these are used in PvP. Many classes get multiple stuns that will keep a played stunned even if they are taking direct damage. This is BS, total BS.

 

Guess what I can do? I can choke you for 3 seconds, which is a channel, meaning I can't do anything else. If I spend a ton of points I can make my 3 second ravage ability immobilize you during the duration (also a channel.) Hmm. Notice a pattern? I can't stun, cc, or otherwise immobilize you like other (still melee based) classes can. Granted, I do get an AoE stun for 6 seconds.. that wears off if the target takes damage. How is this balance?

 

When you are choking them they ARE taking damage. So because you are channelling damage with the same ability rather than pushing other buttons to do damage that makes it worse? Also you get a 6 second AOE MEZ, not stun. Use proper terminology and you won't get confused.

 

I get an ability take gets rid of any movement, hold, or stun effect that can be used once every two minutes. In terms of Huttball, that's about.. maybe.. 4 times a match? I have to pick which exact stun I break free from and hope that I don't get chain-stunned by another stun from a class that has multiple ones right away. This needs to stop. There needs to be a stun/hold immunity in PvP.

 

No argument here. I assume there are trinket type items with stun breaks but aside from that I get CC'd a LOT. It seems to me like the resolve bar doesn't work very well. Perhaps they need to add in some sort of popup combat text telling me when I am immune to the resolve bar because currently I don't see it.

 

6. Marauders in General

I know, I know, this is where I talk about my class getting the short end of the stick, and everyone else is OP. But I've noticed some things both with playing with other classes, and playing those classes myself. I seem to be able to do amazing dps, until I compare myself with a Sith Assassin, who is also a melee dps. I figure, no problem. I'm probably more durable than they are because I have heavier armor. Honestly, this isn't the case. A Sith Assassin is more likely to be an offtank than a Marauder. Why is this? I come from the same archtype class as the Juggernaut. Shouldn't I be more of an off-tank than them?

 

I strongly believe that the Marauder needs some sort of boost for both PvP and PvE. Leveling from 40-50 was an utter nightmare after the mobs started hitting noticeably harder (Around Hoth?) and made the game almost unplayable even though both my companion and I were geared quite well for my level and forced me to rely on medpacks.

 

What can be done? Either boost the Sith Marauders survivability or dps. I think the survivability makes more sense seeing as how we come from the 'Sith Warrior' archtype.

 

Conclusion

Well, I honestly hope you read in earnest what I wrote up to this point instead of just skimming it. I want to say that I didn't take the time to write all this out because I'm 'doomsaying' or saying 'how this game sucks', but quite the opposite. I love this game and I want it to succeed. I want to be playing this game 6 or more years from now and enjoying it as much as I have been up until this point. I know it's just the start and things will eventually get better, but I hope my ideas have some sort of push to get the gears rolling on that change. Thanks for reading.

 

 

Not going to speak specifically to marauder issues because frankly I haven't played one myself. I do like playing classes seen as gimp however and trying to excel with them so maybe that will be my next alt.

[goulet]

melee has it rough in some instances, and in fact its somewhat masked by cc issues (don't get me wrong marauder has it probably the toughest, but as i don't play one i can only speak from other experiences with melee classes). Simply put cc plays a huge role in the ability to do damage, without it all any ranged has to do is run around like a chicken with their head cut off and they avoid/limit a melee players ability to damage them.

[Bongwasserfisch]

I cannot layout a strategy that is going to be the catch all for all your woes. However I can say, find the situations that you can excel in, and do you best to avoid the ones you have little chance of winning. However, if you are going to be like the legions of others here, blaming their class, and the devs for their poor play you won't ever be successful.

 

I cannot layout a strategy that is going to be the catch all for all your woes. However I can say, find the situations that you can excel in, and do you best to avoid the ones you have little chance of winning. However, if you are going to be like the legions of others here, blaming their class, and the devs for their poor play you won't ever be successful.

 

cant avoid all

Edited January 3, 2012 by Bongwasserfisch

[Planar]

So you can jump over the fire in hut ball is that ok? No other class can do that. So if you take our stealh away then lets take your jump and leep to a secound floor away.

 

Let them keep their stealth, just let me choose a skill in the tree to lower force surges cooldown, lets say a 3 point skill where each point spend reduces cooldown 2 seconds, meaning you can reduce it down to 9 seconds (without alcalarity of course reducing it more).

Edited January 3, 2012 by Planar

[Ceraz]

Who says you have to use forceleap as an opener. I dont know what the ability is called but as sentinel you can stealth yourself for 3-4 secs while running 30% faster. Great way to close the gap before you have to forceleap.

 

The point most people dont realize is that u have to keep the sentinel away from you or else you die in about 10 secs....

 

That's typically reserved for when you will inevitably get more than two people on you so that you have a chance at surviving. At least, that's how I use it.

[Ceraz]

Let them keep their stealth, just let me choose a skill in the tree to lower force leap timer from 15 to 5 seconds. Each point spent lowers it 5 seconds with a 2 point cost toal to go to 5 seconds in our skill tree.

 

I'd like to see the 1.5 sec immobile/stun from force leap be implemented into PvP.

[Bongwasserfisch]

@dark-poet

 

ohno......we can jump through fire....u can make dmg through fire right ?...and if i jump through the fire what do u think what happens after ? i get kicked to the bottom of the map ! so why should i jump through the fire when there is no sense to do it ? and as i said first...u are able (as ranged) to make dmg through fire and once more...the battleground where u have to destroy doors and steal the data at the end (sry forgotten the name of the map) a ranged ist able to shoot through walls....so *** are u talking about that marauder are able the jump through fire....

[Caeliux]

People would say Maruader sucks...

 

Then this guy rolls up on you and destroys you. -->

 

Then you would reconsider, and would put a sock in your mouth.

 

Good day.

[Murah]

This from the OP, is the worst thing about this game right now.

 

"I quickly get a jump on him and after fighting him for a few moments, I get that exciting deathblow... annndd... nothing. Nothing happened. There was no XP bonus, no form of token, not even a 'valor' increase. "

 

My guildy has even heard an ally in the Ilum zone say, "don't kill the enemy, let them capture the point so we can capture it back" because that would let them fulfill their daily quest.

 

I'm very disappointed the system is set up in a way that doesn't encourage player killing. This is on a pvp server, by the way <rolls eyes>.

[zaudette]

I read about half of your post and stopped. I understand your concerns and you make some valid points. With that said, this is Bioware's first, yes first, MMO. There are going to be problems with the PvP and the PvE end game. The game just came out! Also, you are PvPing in a scaled realm; with players from all levels. Give this some time and it will be better.

 

World of Warcraft has been in the MMO series for years now and is still balancing/fixing their PvP issues...

[Bongwasserfisch]

People would say Maruader sucks...

 

Then this guy rolls up on you and destroys you. -->

 

Then you would reconsider, and would put a sock in your mouth.

 

Good day.

 

 

another one kidding me hu ?

 

6,5k crit ? in pvp ? u ever played ? and he is doing nice by fighting against ******* !

 

and if ur able to see....he made the 6,5k crit and the enemy lost near 70% of his life....pvp against lvl 10+ as an lvl50 marauder isnt that kind of hard pvp'ing....so please stop posting nonsense youtube-vids in this forum... just a waste of my time !

 

P.S.: another fail btw....lvl 50 vs lvl 10 in one battleground is the next fail....there is no chance for an lvl 10 char to win a battle against an lvl50...doesnt matter which class and/or specc he/she is - the lvl 10 chars got 5 spells and the lvl 50 got all - uhh he has to be the best player that he makes a video on utube where he kills lvl 10+

Edited January 3, 2012 by Bongwasserfisch

[Ceraz]

People would say Maruader sucks...

 

Then this guy rolls up on you and destroys you. -->

 

Then you would reconsider, and would put a sock in your mouth.

 

Good day.

 

As I said before, that's one spec and requires many abilities in succession that cannot miss and then he has a 50 second-ish cool down before he can do that again. Yeah, you get one strong hit with that spec and then you're useless because you might as well be smacking the enemy with a wiffle bat.

 

Want to do burst damage like that all the time? Play a Smuggler or an Imperial Agent and you can kill someone before they can get out of a CC.

[Ceraz]

People would say Maruader sucks...

 

Then this guy rolls up on you and destroys you. -->

 

Then you would reconsider, and would put a sock in your mouth.

 

Good day.

 

PS. I also watched the video and I noticed he has some T3 PvP gear...and is fighting against players with no PvP gear. Of course he's going to do ridiculous damage. It's like him fighting a level 25 out in the open world. This doesn't change anything about how the class plays when he out-gears his opponents so much!

[Caeliux]

another one kidding me hu ?

 

6,5k crit ? in pvp ? u ever played ? and he is doing nice by fighting against ******* !

 

and if ur able to see....he made the 6,5k crit and the enemy lost near 70% of his life....pvp against lvl 10+ as an lvl50 marauder isnt that kind of hard pvp'ing....so please stop posting nonsense youtube-vids in this forum... just a waste of my time !

 

P.S.: another fail btw....lvl 50 vs lvl 10 in one battleground is the next fail....there is no chance for an lvl 10 char to win a battle against an lvl50...doesnt matter which class and/or specc he/she is - the lvl 10 chars got 5 spells and the lvl 50 got all - uhh he has to be the best player that he makes a video on utube where he kills lvl 10+

 

He was fighting level 50's, look at the targets to the right, it says level 50's.

 

You need glasses, and you and these other baddies are making excuses on why you can't play a skillful class.

 

Yes, Marauder takes skill, and most of you people don't have a ounce of it.

 

If one person can play it the way it should be played, then the rest that can't need to...

 

L2P.

 

Have a good day.