Vodalus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I do not beleive Rift had appearance slots at launch either. You are right, it did not. But, what does that have to do with whether or not TOR should have them? If anything, it's more evidence that the TOR devs should just get over it and add it; at best it's an argument of the inevitability of Atabs being implemented. (I'm saying it is inevitable, just pointing out what I see as the only logical use for the argument.) I see a lot of people, in all different topics, who post <x game> didn't have <y feature> at launch in response to the discussion. It's almost like a conditioned reflex that the MMO developers have instilled in their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enginer Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Can we get the broken class quest first first? Then worry about how our toons look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyelf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 my point regarding the lightsaber at level 1 was that most people seems to demand instant gratification in every single regard of gameplay. If we ever get an atab(personally i hope we dont, but you have the right to disagree) you should still face the problem of hunting down that rare piece of gear that you really want, just like you need some luck and the will to keep going when it seems pointless, so that you might get the rare schematic that will allow the creation of the peice you really want. The main complaint(that i consider worth adressing(no isult intended to people of different opinions)) is that things are random. But perhaps the random should not be seen as a manifestation of hate aainst the players, but rather an obstacle on the way to the promised gear(went a little overboard there, sorry) and you should accept that being the best and looking the best requires both patience, skill and willpower to achieve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you go read the sticky on gear and appearance the Devs said that we are too stupid to know we are progressing if we dont keep changing cloths. I like you. You seem like a cool guy. I really dont understand most people here, what is the next thing if you get the appearance tab? lightsabers at level 1? free speeders? zero class progression? While you may answer no to all of the above you still need to look at the biger picture, the game has flaws, appearance tab=fluff/padding. When the flaws are sorted out BW could begin making things like A-Tabs (wont bother writing the entire word any more), or perhaps they should have a group work on it when they cant conveniently stuff more personel into the bug fixin department, but until then i think you need to be happy that you have orage gear. And if there is ever implemented an A-Tab then what? are you just going to pick up the first set of armor that comes your way and never change? The game is still going to need some senes of progression, right? The truth of the matter is that what most of the posters in here wants is a shop that gives away every single piece of gear with max stats at first convenience, personally i dont belive that would work. There is of course another aspect to take into consideration, the ingame economy, further down the line more people will reach max craft skill, and they will gather schematics, and they will make their products, and they will sell their products. In the end that will lead to a blossoming economy, not neccesarily based on credits, but perhaps trading of gear, now wouldnt that be nice? As a bonus it might even improve the community, heck you could even add a server tab to the forum where you could request pieces of tailormade pieces for your char. Consider the last piece, to me it sounds like a nice idea (sorry about the lack of structure, but im in a hurry right now) You, on the other hand, need to stop talking out of your ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fixit Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 As you start getting lvl 50 PvP and PvE items, you end up looking like everyone else of your class. At some point (after they address some the major issues), having an appearance tab would be nice. Finally came across a mod set I sort of liked but as said, when you start having to use the superior PvE/PvP items; that cool gear you like (if you actually find a set) will end up in the bank since they are inferior stat wise. So saying use mod gear is flawed. If they actually could be modded up to the level of the higher end token PvE/PvP gear, then I would agree but that is not the case at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syas Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hmm, except there are few things more important to many players than being able to identify with and like their toon. Those few things being balance, broken quests, gathering node fixes, pvp warzone issues, ability delay, and BH Class Quest? Seriously, I am a loyal player, I am here for the long haul, but Appearance Tab (as opposed to ORANGE EQUIPMENT) is not, and should not, be a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthAnaethil Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hmm, except there are few things more important to many players than being able to identify with and like their toon. few things? I know of more than a few BUGS that need to be worked out, not to mention hi res textures... you're priorities are VERY messed up. You can look as cool as you want, but if the game doesn't work, it's pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyelf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 You, on the other hand, need to stop talking out of your ***. ??? what do you mean? sorry if i have insulted, i never intended to do that, but really, i dont think i wrote anything dumb(unstructured, yes, but i already apologized for that, so please dont nitpick if thats it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 my point regarding the lightsaber at level 1 was that most people seems to demand instant gratification in every single regard of gameplay. If we ever get an atab(personally i hope we dont, but you have the right to disagree) you should still face the problem of hunting down that rare piece of gear that you really want, just like you need some luck and the will to keep going when it seems pointless, so that you might get the rare schematic that will allow the creation of the peice you really want. The main complaint(that i consider worth adressing(no isult intended to people of different opinions)) is that things are random. But perhaps the random should not be seen as a manifestation of hate aainst the players, but rather an obstacle on the way to the promised gear(went a little overboard there, sorry) and you should accept that being the best and looking the best requires both patience, skill and willpower to achieve Ahhh, ok. Here's where part of the problem is (yellow highlight). That is exactly how it works. An Atab doesn't automatically give you access to all appearances. You still have to acquire the item in order to equip it. You just have the option of equipping the item in your regular slot or the Atab slot. If you put in in the regular slot, it is used for it's stats and appearance, if nothing is in the corresponding Atab slot, or just for stats if something is in the Atab slot. If you put it in the Atab slot, it is just used for appearance. There are variations from game to game as to what can go in the Atab slot, but generally, it is only items that you are eligible to put in your regular slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyelf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Ahhh, ok. Here's where part of the problem is (yellow highlight). That is exactly how it works. An Atab doesn't automatically give you access to all appearances. You still have to acquire the item in order to equip it. You just have the option of equipping the item in your regular slot or the Atab slot. If you put in in the regular slot, it is used for it's stats and appearance, if nothing is in the corresponding Atab slot, or just for stats if something is in the Atab slot. If you put it in the Atab slot, it is just used for appearance. There are variations from game to game as to what can go in the Atab slot, but generally, it is only items that you are eligible to put in your regular slots. put as i later point out it is still possible to get the equivalent of an atab piece by working hard, and being lucky, you dont get the peice it self, but perhaps a schematic(granted it does not work for leve 50, but that should be easily fixable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) ??? what do you mean? sorry if i have insulted, i never intended to do that, but really, i dont think i wrote anything dumb(unstructured, yes, but i already apologized for that, so please dont nitpick if thats it) "I really dont understand most people here, what is the next thing if you get the appearance tab? lightsabers at level 1? free speeders? zero class progression? " This. How in the seven hells do you equate wanting an appearance tab with wanting everything in the game handed to you. "The truth of the matter is that what most of the posters in here wants is a shop that gives away every single piece of gear with max stats at first convenience, personally i dont belive that would work." Find ONE !@#$ing person who has ever said anything resembling this during an appearance tab discussion. How the !@#$ could you possibly come to this conclusion. An appearance tab, by DEFINITION, is about SEPARATING the stats from a piece of gear from the look of a piece of gear. As for your "concern" about having to earn gear for looks... an appearance tab, as implemented in every (non-super hero) MMO that has ever used it, has always required that you earn the gear first. Basically, you have failed to grasp even the most basic understanding of what an appearance tab is, how it works, and why people want it. Yet you felt the need to comment anyway. This is commonly known as "talking out of your ***". Edited January 5, 2012 by CharagonIGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyelf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 "I really dont understand most people here, what is the next thing if you get the appearance tab? lightsabers at level 1? free speeders? zero class progression? " This. How in the seven hells do you equate wanting an appearance tab with wanting everything in the game handed to you. "The truth of the matter is that what most of the posters in here wants is a shop that gives away every single piece of gear with max stats at first convenience, personally i dont belive that would work." Find ONE !@#$ing person who has ever said anything resembling this during an appearance tab discussion. How the !@#$ could you possibly come to this conclusion. An appearance tab, by DEFINITION, is about SEPARATING the stats from a piece of gear from the look of a piece of gear. As for your "concern" about having to earn gear for looks... an appearance tab, as implemented in every (non-super hero) MMO that has ever used it, has always required that you earn the gear first. Basically, you have failed to grasp even the most basic understanding of what an appearance tab is, how it works, and why people want it. Yet you felt the need to comment anyway. This is commonly known as "talking out of your ***". those quotes that you took out of contexts focus upon the fact that apparently grinding for schematics to make the orage equivalents of the equipment you already have is to much work for some, this leads me to conclude that there is a demand for instant gratification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) those quotes that you took out of contexts focus upon the fact that apparently grinding for schematics to make the orage equivalents of the equipment you already have is to much work for some, this leads me to conclude that there is a demand for instant gratification Three questions. 1. Are there schematics for every piece of gear in the game? 2. Are there end-game viable mods for this gear? 3. How exactly do you consider not wanting to choose between the look of a piece of gear you already earned and the stats of a different piece of gear you already earned to be "instant gratification?" Personally, I would say that if you've earned the gear with the look that you like, and you've earned the gear with the stats that you want... you've already gone well beyond the "instant gratification" stage. Edited January 5, 2012 by CharagonIGN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommyjc Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Three questions. 1. Are there schematics for every piece of gear in the game? 2. Are there end-game viable mods for this gear? 3. How exactly do you consider not wanting to choose between the look of a piece of gear you already earned and the stats of a different piece of gear you already earned to be "instant gratification?" Personally, I would say that if you've earned the gear with the look that you like, and you've earned the gear with the stats that you want... you've already gone well beyond the "instant gratification" stage. I applaud your last two posts, these "intelligent" people who oppose appearance tabs, never cease to amaze me with the trash they spew out of their fingertips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyelf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Three questions. 1. Are there schematics for every piece of gear in the game? 2. Are there end-game viable mods for this gear? 3. How exactly do you consider not wanting to choose between the look of a piece of gear you already earned and the stats of a different piece of gear you already earned to be "instant gratification?" 1. i have no idea, but earlier in the thread there is a reference to a dev stating that the green (or was it blue) all had an orange equivalent 2. no, and that is the biggest problem, otherwise orange would be just as viable without having to add an entirely new feature to the game 3. point is you have earned the piece that must be changed(locked stats), but personally i think that if you want a piece of equipment that can last forever(correct modding) you need to do more than just push three buttons on a console after having killed 5 blacksun dudes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharagonIGN Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 1. i have no idea, but earlier in the thread there is a reference to a dev stating that the green (or was it blue) all had an orange equivalent So you don't know, but you felt the need to comment anyway... you know where this is going, right? 2. no, and that is the biggest problem, otherwise orange would be just as viable without having to add an entirely new feature to the game So you recognize that BioWare's workaround is not sufficient, but still oppose them putting in the original feature. (FYI, BioWare has already done the appearance tab. It could be patched in tomorrow if they chose. They took it out and went with modded gear because they think us looking at all the different gear their artists made is more important than us liking how our characters look) 3. point is you have earned the piece that must be changed(locked stats), but personally i think that if you want a piece of equipment that can last forever(correct modding) you need to do more than just push three buttons on a console after having killed 5 blacksun dudes *** are you talking about? Seriously. You need to more clearly define what you're saying when you say "If you want a piece of equipment that can last forever". If you're talking about the gear itself... then NOBODY IS ASKING FOR THAT. If you're talking about just the look of the gear... then why the !@#$ not? Why should I not be able to keep the look of a piece of gear I've earned without sacrificing my stats? If a Black Sun Gangster drops an upgrade that looks like it came from Bozo's wardrobe, well... I've earned that gear. I've earned those stats. If another Black Sun Gangster drops a piece of gear that looks really cool, but doesn't have great stats. I've earned that gear too. Give me one good reason why the stats of a piece of gear I've earned should eternally tied to its graphic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyelf Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 So you don't know, but you felt the need to comment anyway... you know where this is going, right? So you recognize that BioWare's workaround is not sufficient, but still oppose them putting in the original feature. (FYI, BioWare has already done the appearance tab. It could be patched in tomorrow if they chose. They took it out and went with modded gear because they think us looking at all the different gear their artists made is more important than us liking how our characters look) *** are you talking about? Seriously. You need to more clearly define what you're saying when you say "If you want a piece of equipment that can last forever". If you're talking about the gear itself... then NOBODY IS ASKING FOR THAT. If you're talking about just the look of the gear... then why the !@#$ not? Why should I not be able to keep the look of a piece of gear I've earned without sacrificing my stats? If a Black Sun Gangster drops an upgrade that looks like it came from Bozo's wardrobe, well... I've earned that gear. I've earned those stats. If another Black Sun Gangster drops a piece of gear that looks really cool, but doesn't have great stats. I've earned that gear too. Give me one good reason why the stats of a piece of gear I've earned should eternally tied to its graphic. 1. You are 100% correct i do not know, however i assume other people in this thread is just as credible as you are (i can in no way verify you answer to the 2 statement, but really that is not my point, so you dont need to linkm, i belive you) 2.already covered that 3. i would be very happy if you did not feel it neccesary to impy that you are cursing, but whatever. The piece of equipment that lasts forever, is the orange peice, the one with the looks that you can mod and tailor to your needs. What i meant about the blacksuns personell was that I do not consider completing a simple quest enough of an effort to reward someone with orange or the equivalent, thus you have not earned the look, sure you can have the equipment whuile it lasts, but lets atleast make looking good permanently a challenge shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 1. You are 100% correct i do not know, however i assume other people in this thread is just as credible as you are (i can in no way verify you answer to the 2 statement, but really that is not my point, so you dont need to linkm, i belive you) Let me clarify this for you. All green items have a schematic for an orange equivalent appearance in the game's database. That does not mean they are all in the game (and may never be on any given server) because these schematics acquired by random luck with extremely low probability for any given piece (sample math with generous estimations earlier in this thread). Furthermore, blue and purple item styles are not accounted for this way. From what I have personally seen, the blue items are usually either the same as the green item appearances or simply a re-color (which in itself means they are not the same: see skittles trooper images for example of how important color can be). This means that one could stretch the facts to say that all blue or green item appearances are available in the item database. It does not cover purples at all. 2.already covered that 3. i would be very happy if you did not feel it neccesary to impy that you are cursing, but whatever. The piece of equipment that lasts forever, is the orange peice, the one with the looks that you can mod and tailor to your needs. What i meant about the blacksuns personell was that I do not consider completing a simple quest enough of an effort to reward someone with orange or the equivalent, thus you have not earned the look, sure you can have the equipment whuile it lasts, but lets atleast make looking good permanently a challenge shall we? Why? Why should a person not be able to use the appearance of an item that they acquire, be it from a flashpoint boss or random drop? What is the reason? If you don't think the item worthy of being worn for a long period of time, don't wear it. How does it affect you if someone else wears it? We're back to the fundamental issue here: personal choice. The way my character looks will affect me every time I log in and for the entire time I am playing. It will affect you, at worst, the length of a PUG run. Why should you arbitrarily decide what I should and should not be able to wear, simply because of how I obtained the item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSith Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Aspiring Knight's Vest Aspiring's Knights Leggings. Both are orange modifiables crafted by a synthweaver with those models. I know because I made two for guildmembers yesterday. Pretty much this. The blatant ignorance of some posters here is alarming. Seems like they intentionally try to be ignorant just so they can bash the game. Orange gear is 'fully' moddable. Which means you can use those pieces all the way to 50 if you mod them. Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Pretty much this. The blatant ignorance of some posters here is alarming. Seems like they intentionally try to be ignorant just so they can bash the game. Orange gear is 'fully' moddable. Which means you can use those pieces all the way to 50 if you mod them. Have a nice day Would you mind explaining what intentional ignorance you are referring to? It's easy to come in and sling personal attacks without being specific; you can look like a "hero" without actually having to say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arukueido Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Are the Aspiring Knight's schematics only available via Underworld Trading? I have been searching the GTN on my server for an entire week and nobody ever seems to sell this schematic or the final product and I can't find anyone who already knows it. I can only imagine that it being such a low level item and orange without any stats that people are just possibly vendoring the schematic if they have no need for it and this is rather frustrating! Also I seem to get a ridiculous amount of Sith only gear schematics whilst I am republic which adds to the frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taran_Tatsuuchi Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Are the Aspiring Knight's schematics only available via Underworld Trading? I have been searching the GTN on my server for an entire week and nobody ever seems to sell this schematic or the final product and I can't find anyone who already knows it. I can only imagine that it being such a low level item and orange without any stats that people are just possibly vendoring the schematic if they have no need for it and this is rather frustrating! Also I seem to get a ridiculous amount of Sith only gear schematics whilst I am republic which adds to the frustration. I can't be certain it's from UT, but if it is it should drop from the grade 1 missions, as that's where I've gotten schematics of its level before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodalus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Are the Aspiring Knight's schematics only available via Underworld Trading? I have been searching the GTN on my server for an entire week and nobody ever seems to sell this schematic or the final product and I can't find anyone who already knows it. I can only imagine that it being such a low level item and orange without any stats that people are just possibly vendoring the schematic if they have no need for it and this is rather frustrating! Also I seem to get a ridiculous amount of Sith only gear schematics whilst I am republic which adds to the frustration. Unfortunately, random is random. It is a UT drop. First there is the randomness of actually getting a schematic on a UT mission (basically a mission crit), then there is the randomness of which schematic is awarded. Add to that the "luck" involved in actually connecting with someone who has been successful with the two previous layers of randomness. . . Yeah, the current system is inadequate. In my opinion, it was a poorly conceived, 11th hour, untested (definitely untested publicly, maybe a few F&F testers), knee-jerk "solution" to a possible exploit for operation gear. (That last part, about the operation exploit being the reason isn't my opinion, that part is fact.) Edited January 8, 2012 by Vodalus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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