Season 12 PvP Report

[JediMasterAlex]

3. Remove vote kicking. It's only going to be abused, people have shown they have no scruples they cannot be trusted to "do the right thing" which is use vote kicking when it should be used. Players have proven they are incapable of being trusted with this kind of power, and will continue to abuse it if it is left in any capacity whatsoever. Just remove it. Period.

 

Sadly, this is correct. And even when it's used legitimately, it accomplishes very little. It's just a 5 minute lockout and whoever was kicked can requeue.

 

And there's one more factor that no one has brought up. Wasted time. The amount of time that people spend kicking is crazy. You'll be forced to sit there and wait while someone sits in stealth and the team kicking wrangles the votes to kick. This season, hours of my life have been wasted while people inappropriately vote kick just to give a 5 minute lockout. It's not worth it. Some people need to learn to just lose and move on without throwing a tantrum.

 

I have a question... what about making it 7 out of 8?

 

I still think removal would be better, but short of that this might be a decent option.

Edited May 5, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

[Lhancelot]

Sadly, this is correct. And even when it's used legitimately, it accomplishes very little. It's just a 5 minute lockout and whoever was kicked can requeue.

 

And there's one more factor that no one has brought up. Wasted time. The amount of time that people spend kicking is crazy. You'll be forced to sit there and wait while someone sits in stealth and the team kicking wrangles the votes to kick. This season, hours of my life have been wasted while people inappropriately vote kick just to give a 5 minute lockout. It's not worth it. Some people need to learn to just lose and move on without throwing a tantrum.

 

Yeah, man I hate when people do things that ruin any kind of flow with the queues.

 

This reminds me of when you got guys that got to constantly change their specs, change utilities, change toons while you are grouped and you just want to fight people. Some people seem to not care they spend more time preparing and setting up the "perfect match" than actually playing.

 

But I digress. Yeah, that would be an annoyance too.

[bladech]

OK so you say, that the requirements wont change this season for team ranked and solo ranked.

If you guys keep it for solo ranked i think most pll will be fine with it. But if you guys keep it for team ranked then i guess there wont be any top 3 or maybe also even gold and when i startet to play ranked it was in season 10 it was great, you could play team ranked for some mats, with a tryhard team or you could just go into solo ranked. Now team ranked isnt like that anymore there are no mats farmers anymore or just guys who want to get some wins there are now allready some teams wihch try to make it alive again, but then to say it will still be 200 wins, thats just not cool for them who grinded for it then they just did it for no reason and just get nothing. So maybe put it to 50 or 75 for top 3 so some pll get a top 3 but not 200 because i think noone will get this seaeson 200 wins in team ranked.

 

No means no. You should start advertising the need to return mats back to team ranked to make it alive again so that all these Wintraders would have no chances to get rewards. Sorry but is an obvious, well-known fact that current team ranked season is based on "contracted", "based on agreements" fights where a stronger team either asked/paid weaker team for easy fights or simply wintraded all rating/wins. Without bringing back team ranked to season 10 era all teams must not be eligible for any rewards. There is simply no legitimacy in team ranked at this season and everyone knows now team ranked worked this season.

 

Devs must either return back mats/other incentives to revive team ranked as it was in season 10 or shut it down for good

[JediMasterAlex]

Vote kick is is used frequently to grieve other players. In these instances vote kick is abused.

 

Because my other post was removed, I'll rephrase: the opinions of people that are directly involved in the abuse of vote kicking (and wintrading) are about as genuine and useful as a bully lamenting the fact that people get bullied lol. Also it's "grief" not "grieve."

Edited May 5, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

[KingDeathII]

Actions Taken

 

So far this season, we have banned nine accounts for cheating or hacking in PvP, and we have locked an additional eleven accounts from being able to participate in ranked PvP at all.

 

This is how you know the devs are completely out of touch with reality. In what universe is banning 9 people and locking out 11 on top of that even something you are proud of mentioning? Thats 20 players across 5 servers over the course of 5 months.

 

On average, that means you only got rid of 4 hackers/throwers from each server. So from the start of S12 till this post....1 person from each server per month, has been removed from the player pool.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself if this is the best you can do.

Edited May 5, 2020 by KingDeathII

[merovejec]

But if you guys keep it for team ranked then i guess there wont be any top 3 or maybe also even gold

 

Team Ranked has been abused for top3s and gold tiers for many seasons now. I suggested many times to remove the top3 from it completely. Last season and the season before that people with less than 20 wins got top3 titles, how is that reasonable?

[merovejec]

So i wonder why it took 6 months you to ban these players? You know how many games they ruined in 6 months? Do you know how many bots and throwers were in game in that long 6 months? Sorry but this is too little too late.

 

We are still waiting you too keep your promises about making ranked pvp a better place, class balance, better matchmaking and list goes on. Just yesterday an operative healer was in queue just to stay ask right outside of spawn. Without perma ban to accounts with a fast reaction time this will continue.

 

The thing here is to not take it seriously. Its a game, pixel rewards, just enjoy the matches that are good and dont look back at how things could have been. The PVP community is just too small in this game and its just too easy to manipulate so people do it. Why? I have no idea, what they achieve here helps them no further in real life, its pointless. BUT for some reason they strive for it, so let them.

 

Its impossible to do anything in this system or as a matter of fact any other system. The problem is that these people are not bound to their main accounts, they have no problem to make a new account, they dont care they dont have the gear, cosmetics etc, they play A LOT so they get everything fast. There is no point fighting such people, just ignore them.

[omeru]

This is how you know the devs are completely out of touch with reality. In what universe is banning 9 people and locking out 11 on top of that even something you are proud of mentioning? Thats 20 players across 5 servers over the course of 5 months.

 

On average, that means you only got rid of 4 hackers/throwers from each server. So from the start of S12 till this post....1 person from each server per month, has been removed from the player pool.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself if this is the best you can do.

 

They say 20 i believe not more than 10 and i am sure they are kir...ana and je...ze's alt acounts so not 20 players only 2-3 players so it is even more pathetic than you think.This is just another Mike Bradley PR BS nothing more. Last season they said they banned players and main problem guy who ruined whole season with his bots got top 3 title so MB sadly not trustwhorty.

Edited May 6, 2020 by omeru

[omeru]

The thing here is to not take it seriously. Its a game, pixel rewards, just enjoy the matches that are good and dont look back at how things could have been. The PVP community is just too small in this game and its just too easy to manipulate so people do it. Why? I have no idea, what they achieve here helps them no further in real life, its pointless. BUT for some reason they strive for it, so let them.

 

Its impossible to do anything in this system or as a matter of fact any other system. The problem is that these people are not bound to their main accounts, they have no problem to make a new account, they dont care they dont have the gear, cosmetics etc, they play A LOT so they get everything fast. There is no point fighting such people, just ignore them.

 

Everything has a solution, put gear barrier increase valor requirements, put a min total kill pvp kill achievement to enter the ranked. If you put 10k total kill it wont be hard any old player to have that put a valor barrier if you have lvl 100 toon your valor requirement is 25, if you have lvl 80 valor you need 40 valor if you dont have any toon over lvl 60 or 65 valor you cant enter ranked and valor 60-65 is not hard for any long time pvp player.. You can even remove valor requirement from a class if you have a valor 100 toon on that class. This wont hurt any old player since he would have high level valor but you will put a big barier for a new account that created for wintrading.

 

If you want there are easy solutions but everything starts with wanting to make it better.Put 306 gear mandotory but only for preventing to trolls and reminding some players they forgot their gear on legacy bank. Like i said you can create a system that will put higher entry for new account and lower barrier on old pvp player accounts.

Edited May 6, 2020 by omeru

[merovejec]

Everything has a solution, put gear barrier increase valor requirements, put a min total kill pvp kill achievement to enter the ranked. If you put 10k total kill it wont be hard any old player to have that put a valor barrier if you have lvl 100 toon your valor requirement is 25, if you have lvl 80 valor you need 40 valor if you dont have any toon over lvl 60 or 65 valor you cant enter ranked and valor 60-65 is not hard for any long time pvp player.. You can even remove valor requirement from a class if you have a valor 100 toon on that class. This wont hurt any old player since he would have high level valor but you will put a big barier for a new account that created for wintrading.

 

If you want there are easy solutions but everything starts with wanting to make it better.Put 306 gear mandotory but only for preventing to trolls and reminding some players they forgot their gear on legacy bank. Like i said you can create a system that will put higher entry for new account and lower barrier on old pvp player accounts.

 

This is all debateable. First of all you need to look at other, similar games how they do it. What requirements does WoW have for ranked? What requirements does Final Fantasy have? Do they also have gear, valor, kill requirements?

 

Second you need to know the data, statistics. Bioware can see what we cannot, they see how many people actually que ranked. We can only deduce how many players play ranked based on the leaderboards. If they see the number of players in que is low they will never introduce more restrictions. I know we would say that we rather wait longer for a pop if it means a more quality game, but it may end up taking longer and the games will be crap still! The cheaters adapted to every system so far, they would surely adapt to what ever Bioware would think up. Sadly there seem to be people to whom the titles in this game mean the world.

[merovejec]

They say 20 i believe not more than 10 and i am sure they are kir...ana and je...ze's alt acounts so not 20 players only 2-3 players so it is even more pathetic than you think.This is just another Mike Bradley PR BS nothing more. Last season they said they banned players and main problem guy who ruined whole season with his bots got top 3 title so MB sadly not trustwhorty.

 

I do not see it so negative. The cheating went down by much and so the numbers are much lower and there is not even a need for a monthly report now.

 

The only thing that sucks is that they have to resort to automated tools to find the people. They do not have the manpower to go through the games one by one and really check what goes on. As Mike said they are learning, but this process will take a long time and they will still not learn it all. Thats why for example companies that produce Safes hire criminals to try to crack open their safe so that they know how good their product is. They should consult cheaters too

[TrixxieTriss]

 

We’ve received reports indicating that accounts locked out of ranked PvP have just gone into unranked PvP to continue throwing, griefing, afking, etc. so we are in the process of expanding this lockout to include all PvP rather than just ranked. All accounts that are locked out of PvP will also have every character’s rating reset and will not be eligible for end of season rewards.

 

 

Hi Mike, I’ve not played ranked for a long time due to lag (Aussie), but I want to comment on this part of your post.

I can say this is disappointing and I hope you guys just lock these account out of pvp at all Lvls. From lowbies to ranked.

I’ve personally had this experience in lowbies with my wife who has now stopped playing pvp altogether because of the griefing, abuse and trolling of both of us.

 

It took me 8-9 years to finally get her playing pvp in this game and these trolls you banned in ranked that have come to regs have made her stop in the space of a few weeks.

Would I be correct in saying you only locked these people out in the last 3-4 weeks? Because that’s when all the problems started for her in lowbie pvp. Before that we had a few trolls, but nothing like we do now. I’ve even had to stop playing lowbie pvp because it’s become a joke,

So can you imagine what it’s like for new or returning players to the game to come across this sort of rubbish in the “learning” or “earliest” brackets of pvp? It literally kills the queue as soon as these guys turn up.

 

There is also the problem of match making in lowbies and 4 man premades who these guys form to troll with.

The simplest solutions to eliminate some of this is :

 

1. Remove “skill” based match making from regs (class based is ok)

 

2. Reduce premades to 2 man as a compromise and then you don’t have 4 man vs 4 pugs (during arena)

 

3. Add incentives for people to lvl up and play lowbie mid pvp. This would increase queue sizes and we wouldn’t get as many arena matches that these guys can troll in,

 

3a. A couple more conquest incentives for lowbies and Mids would help. When you only get arena pops, it is nearly impossible to get 8 medals if you are losing.

 

3b. Maybe add some tech frags as rewards (and increase tech frag total to 100k). Or add another pvp currency for med packs and gear from the pvp vendors (like we used to have)

 

4. Im glad you are going to lock these guy’s accounts out of all pvp if you are going to lock them out of ranked. If they cheat and grief in ranked, you can be 100% sure they are doing the same in regs. I’ve seen wall / speed and other hacks in lowbies since 6.1 was implemented (did you all break something?). FYI, that lag / dysnc exploit to do with sound is becoming more prevalent too.

 

5. Make it easier to report griefers who swap characters to whisper troll you after you put them on ignore. If they are right in front of you, you can right click their portrait and go report harassment. You can NOT do that in the whisper chat and most these guys use “Alt code” lettering which makes reporting too hard. Having 3 guys swap Alts to troll you till you log out of the game or swap characters is very distressing for some people.

 

6. We still need an easier way to “right click” report cheating in pvp. New players have no idea how to use this convoluted system.

 

I’m glad you’ve reached out, the more communication the better. Please surprise us all and implement some ideas for other parts of pvp and not “only” focus on ranked.

Remember, people learn in lowbies, Mids and regs and if they have terrible experiences there, they never learn or they don’t bother playing pvp in this game. Which means less new blood for ranked.

If you want ranked to work, the “whole pvp eco system” needs to work from top to bottom. Looking at it in bits and pieces or totally ignoring some aspects is part of the underlying problem that is affecting ranked too.

 

Anyway, stay safe and healthy during this tough period.

 

Edit:

Hey a Mike, here’s an interesting thing that Call of Duty Modern War posted about how they are dealing with cheaters. https://imgur.com/gallery/isxSzmT

Room for thought?

Edited May 6, 2020 by TrixxieTriss

[xWiCKEDx]

I love these reports. You really set the story straight.

[Davoz_nl]

My suggestion to the Devs would be to increase the requirements to play Ranked PVP

this will be an obstacle for new people and also people that create new accounts after being banned.

 

Make it so that you have to be atleast 306 and a valor rank of 50/60..

which would indicate you at least have some knowledge over your class as valor is still sometimes a pain to grind..

plus this would make it close to impossible for banned people to create a new account (buy) and start trolling again as they have to grind and gear to 306 + have 50/60 valor

 

Look at it like it's Season 1 with War hero gear which you were only allowed to wear after rank 60..

 

ranked pvp = end game... let there be end game requirements for it.

 

on a second note... disable the /stuck function in ranked so people can't stuck wintrade... if they are on a team where they hate a certain player.. also if you ignore a player friendlist, make it so you can't be match up with him/her.

you should know how much wintrading is going on based on hate.

 

also.. NERF VOLATILE STRIKE

coming from a scoundrel main for 8 years.

 

ty for your time..

 

Davo Morningstar - Darth Malgus EU

Edited May 6, 2020 by Davoz_nl

[Siouve]

Nothing new, 4v4 solo q is a mess since season 1. It always been about wintrading, dodging, farming rating on dead server and qsyncing. Team Ranked... Every season on every server pretty much one dominant team farming one or two other who accept to queue. You guys kill pvp by yourself with the remove of 8v8 rbg (for litteraly no reason) after everyone transfer to Tomb of freedon Naad (1700cc per alt transfer btw ) and you left us with this s**tfest.

 

It's been years since people ask for 2v2 team arena q , with this small population it's time to make the move...Easy group, more people in q, fast pop

[Lhancelot]

let's see what is your plans about future of pvp other than a few damage control posts.

 

Honestly, they in an impossible situation. They need to make some specific changes to the format of ranked if they really want to have a chance at policing it better with such a hands-off approach they seem intent on using.

 

I mean if they will not have an active online presence during playing times, then they have to simplify stuff. Right now, there's too many working parts that well, simply don't work.

 

1. ELO with a dead population. Dump ELO; it's not working! NO ONE believes top 3 titles indicate the player is actually a top 3 player! This little useless stat also creates tons of toxicity and cheating because how much it matters for certain rewards.

 

2. Make losses not lose ELO. If you are hellbent on keeping ELO, the useless stat that doesn't one bit represent who truly is/are the best PVPers, ok, then make losses not kill people's ELO! Winning should be the only thing that impacts a player's ELO. This change would eliminate a lot of toxicity too. When there's so many ways a player can lose, all having nothing to do with the player's actual performance it's no wonder trying to get ELO legit is pulling-out-hair-frustrating! Naturally, people lose tempers when they lose, but when they not only lose the fight, they lose tons of ELO it's just ridiculous.

 

3. If they want true top PVPer contests, then create a format that showcases real skill in PVP, make ELO mean something. Example is make 2v2 contests, 1v1 contests... Why are there no 1v1 matches to prove who truly is the best of the best? People ought to have to really earn a top 3 title or other high tier PVP rewards and do it in a way that it isn't easy to cheat to get.

 

In this context, I feel like MikeB is doing as best he can in an impossible situation.

 

What isn't impossible though, is for he and other BW devs to really consider ways to make ranked better. PVP in general could really use some improvements, like adding more rewards for WZ completions. More tech frags, better chance of gear drops, make PVP worth doing and a viable way to gear up please!

 

Omeru. I understand your frustrations but it doesn't help venting on people who really aren't responsible for the problems being discussed. If you think about it, since MikeB came here, we have had communication via him when before there was none at all.

 

Knowing how BW doesn't react to problems, who knows, he probably tries to recommend changes etc., and he himself probably gets ignored just like we do. At least he doesn't ignore us here. He breaks that chain of dead communication even if it is telling things some people are unhappy about.

 

I would love to see ranked changed just because I think it's a lost opportunity for the game to have an activity that's so dead and dysfunctional when in reality it could be a highly popular activity that's actually fun. There are many ways they can improve this part of the game, surely with nothing to lose at this point they will consider doing some significant design changes to the ranked format.

[Evolixe]

2. Make losses not lose ELO. If you are hellbent on keeping ELO, the useless stat that doesn't one bit represent who truly is/are the best PVPers, ok, then make losses not kill people's ELO! Winning should be the only thing that impacts a player's ELO. This change would eliminate a lot of toxicity too. When there's so many ways a player can lose, all having nothing to do with the player's actual performance it's no wonder trying to get ELO legit is pulling-out-hair-frustrating! Naturally, people lose tempers when they lose, but when they not only lose the fight, they lose tons of ELO it's just ridiculous.

 

3. ..then create a format that showcases real skill in PVP.. 1v1 contests... Why are there no 1v1 matches to prove who truly is the best of the best?..

 

What in the world are you smoking mate? rofl

[JediMasterAlex]

What in the world are you smoking mate? rofl

 

I was going to respond to him, but I lack the patience. He has bizarre, irrational views about elo that he pretends everyone else also holds.

[Lundorff]

I was going to respond to him, but I lack the patience. He has bizarre, irrational views about elo that he pretends everyone else also holds.

 

The ELO system was developed for chess, and it works well on both a national and international level as the pool of chess players is enormous. But in our little game we have oh so few players queuing at the same time, and for that the ELO system only works on a theoretical level. It was never designed to work on a group based level that includes extremes on either end of the spectrum (i.e. 2200, 2200, 1200, 900 Vs. 1600, 4000, 400, 300). It creates wildly uneven matches where the level disparity is all over the place, and the 4000 guy might lose a match due to his team mates rather than his own actions. With enough players this would not be an issue, as all 8 players would be far closer in proximity and it would be a more accurate display of skill.

 

That however is never going to happen. This silly little games will never have enough players in ranked for the ELO system to work like that, and that is why several of us have been advocating a point based system. I have written about this before and I am not going to bother with it again, but suffice to say that it would benefit absolutely everyone - the casual players, the hardcore players, the pool in general, bioware, less toxicity etc.

 

But no. Lets continue with this dysfunction ELO system.

[septru]

1. Dump ELO; it's not working!

 

2. Make losses not lose ELO.

 

If you're going to spout unsubstantiated, ill concieved, just purely wrong opinions about a game mode you yourself don't play, at least make them consistent.

Edited May 7, 2020 by septru

[JediMasterAlex]

The ELO system was developed for chess, and it works well on both a national and international level as the pool of chess players is enormous. But in our little game we have oh so few players queuing at the same time, and for that the ELO system only works on a theoretical level. It was never designed to work on a group based level that includes extremes on either end of the spectrum (i.e. 2200, 2200, 1200, 900 Vs. 1600, 4000, 400, 300). It creates wildly uneven matches where the level disparity is all over the place, and the 4000 guy might lose a match due to his team mates rather than his own actions. With enough players this would not be an issue, as all 8 players would be far closer in proximity and it would be a more accurate display of skill.

 

That however is never going to happen. This silly little games will never have enough players in ranked for the ELO system to work like that, and that is why several of us have been advocating a point based system. I have written about this before and I am not going to bother with it again, but suffice to say that it would benefit absolutely everyone - the casual players, the hardcore players, the pool in general, bioware, less toxicity etc.

 

But no. Lets continue with this dysfunction ELO system.

 

All of that would be true if we were limited to a small number of games. We're not. If you play enough games, better players will tend to win more games than worse players. Ultimately, the better players will end up with a higher elo range than the worse players. This is both common sense, and the way it actually works.

 

Keep in mind two very important factors. First, any individual game can be affected by tons of factors outside of the players control. Therefore, you can't say that every game comes down to a player's skill. It clearly doesn't. But if you play enough games, all of those factors will even out over time. Everyone has to deal with trolls, leavers, someone forgetting gear, etc. If everyone only got to play 20 games, the ratings that people get would not be remotely representative of people's skill. But once people start playing 200, 300, 400 games, the better players will tend to have higher elo, because once the other factors even out, your skill is what remains (because your skill does directly impact the outcome in plenty of games).

 

Second, even over a large amount of games, luck can still become a factor. You can get on win streaks or loss streaks that can change your elo away from where it should be. This is why I like to talk about an elo "range." At any particular moment, your elo might not represent your skill, but the elo range that you tend to play at will say something about it.

 

By the way, the exact same thing happens in other games like Overwatch. Millions of people play that game, and you can still go on big streaks, and get bad luck. And you can go to their forums and see even more whining about "forced streaks" and things. People are just always looking for excuses.

 

Elo certainly doesn't work perfectly in this game. And as I've said before, a points system could even be better (though I haven't been convinced by the arguments I've seen personally). But to pretend that elo means absolutely nothing and has no bearing on skill (assuming people are playing legit of course) is just naive.

Edited May 7, 2020 by JediMasterAlex

[Lundorff]

All of that would be true if we were limited to a small number of games. We're not. If you play enough games, better players will tend to win more games than worse players. Ultimately, the better players will end up with a higher elo range than the worse players. This is both common sense, and the way it actually works.

 

I don't particular disagree with any of this, but the experience is just very jarring. If you play +400 matches and 80% is wacked due to dysfunctional ELO-balance, then no one is really have fun. You can certainly increase your ELO over time - even I can - but for most players it is not a particular enjoyable experience nor a very educational one. (Yes I know you like it for the most part )

 

Keep in mind two very important factors. First, any individual game can be affected by tons of factors outside of the players control. Therefore, you can't say that every game comes down to a player's skill. It clearly doesn't. But if you play enough games, all of those factors will even out over time. Everyone has to deal with trolls, leavers, someone forgetting gear, etc. If everyone only got to play 20 games, the ratings that people get would not be remotely representative of people's skill. But once people start playing 200, 300, 400 games, the better players will tend to have higher elo, because once the other factors even out, your skill is what remains.

 

With a point based system these sources of grievance would be less prevalent I suspect. If no one really lose a whole lot by losing the game, then toxicity and trolls would be less likely to occur. This is a theory I will admit.

 

Elo certainly doesn't work perfectly in this game. And as I've said before, a points system could even be better (though I haven't been convinced by the arguments I've seen personally). But to pretend that elo means absolutely nothing and has no bearing on skill (assuming people are playing legit of course) is just naive.

 

I am certainly not saying the ELO system doesn't "work", I am just saying it is working poorly and that a point based system would be more enjoyable for everyone.

 

I suspect that some of you more hardcore ranked players fear that ranked will become diluted with a point based system, but the unfortunately truth is that TOR is not a game that attracts the "professional" PvP crowd. No one outside the games takes it remotely serious, and that is why I prefer a more fun a approach instead of the current system.

 

But... alas this debate is moot. BW has never entertained the idea of changing the ELO format so... meh.

[JediMasterAlex]

With a point based system these sources of grievance would be less prevalent I suspect. If no one really lose a whole lot by losing the game, then toxicity and trolls would be less likely to occur. This is a theory I will admit.

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure. If anything, making ranked more casual would just make some of the more toxic people even more toxic towards the worse players. For some of the toxic people, they're just as interested in ************ at other people as they are winning. The lack of elo loss would not appease them much I'm afraid.

 

I suspect that some of you more hardcore ranked players fear that ranked will become diluted with a point based system, but the unfortunately truth is that TOR is not a game that attracts the "professional" PvP crowd. No one outside the games takes it remotely serious, and that is why I prefer a more fun a approach instead of the current system.

 

But... alas this debate is moot. BW has never entertained the idea of changing the ELO format so... meh.

 

I'm just not sure it would be more fun. Part of the fun of ranked is that there's something at stake, making it more competitive. If, for example, they just removed ranked and implemented a separate queue for regs arenas, it wouldn't be the same. Sure, it might be fun for a little while, because to me arenas are inherently fun. But to lose that competitive element would make the games worse quality, less meaningful, and therefore less fun, to me anyway.

[snave]

SNIP.

 

In fact. I'd LOVE you do make a long in-depth post about how you'd fix things. Please be specific, class balance, map changes, the works. In these times we could all use a chuckle.

 

When can we expect to see your post mate?

[Lundorff]

When can we expect to see your post mate?

 

Snave dear, I thought we had long ago agreed to ignore each other. You contribute nothing that has value to me, and you clearly feel the same about me. So lets just ignore each other again.