Veteran Hammer Station Yai :P

[JediQuaker]

or you can uncheck hammer station after getting the gf daily, just like the people queueing hammer are forgoing the daily reward.

I'd have check, but it seems to me that the 'random' reward is no longer just once daily. You can get it every time. 🤔

[LD_Little_Dragon]

I'd have check, but it seems to me that the 'random' reward is no longer just once daily. You can get it every time. 🤔

 

You're right, it's every time you que up random. That's part of the problem, people want the extra gear boxes, so won't filter for the fp they want.

 

Best thing would be to stop tying the random rewards for queuing up for ALL the flashpoints. Make the rewards tied to queuing for 10 (or even 20) flashpoints instead of every single one.

[KendraP]

The point I'm making is:

 

The hammer station spammers aren't getting the random reward, because they chose to have an easy run over the reward.

 

If you want to avoid hammer station, a method already exists. Uncheck it.

 

Just like in going for the random reward (which, by the way, I usually do), I risk getting umbara, lost island, etc with a totally incompetent group, by going for random, you risk getting grouped with hammer station spammers. That's the nature of random.

 

Perhaps, as I was pointing out in the ev/kp thread, BW should consider why a seemingly large number of players would rather spam 8 year old content than do their newer content. I for one would rather do the 5 millionth hammer station than the headache that is umbara, etc.

 

In other words, maybe new content should exist for the broader spectrum of players. Perhaps if newer FP existed that were similar to HS in difficulty and time commitment, the spammers would queue for them too.

[phalczen]

The point I'm making is:

 

The hammer station spammers aren't getting the random reward, because they chose to have an easy run over the reward.

 

If you want to avoid hammer station, a method already exists. Uncheck it.

 

Just like in going for the random reward (which, by the way, I usually do), I risk getting umbara, lost island, etc with a totally incompetent group, by going for random, you risk getting grouped with hammer station spammers. That's the nature of random.

 

Perhaps, as I was pointing out in the ev/kp thread, BW should consider why a seemingly large number of players would rather spam 8 year old content than do their newer content. I for one would rather do the 5 millionth hammer station than the headache that is umbara, etc.

 

In other words, maybe new content should exist for the broader spectrum of players. Perhaps if newer FP existed that were similar to HS in difficulty and time commitment, the spammers would queue for them too.

 

Well said KendraP.

 

EDIT:

Perhaps, as I was pointing out in the ev/kp thread, BW should consider why a seemingly large number of players would rather spam 8 year old content than do their newer content.

I could only speculate that it is easier for them to introduce the mechanics in story mode and scale up for harder versions, than it is to write entirely new mechanics. The tech they have for scripting encounters has obviously changed over the years, notably with the introduction of the temporary ability bar system with 5.0 ... we've seen how they've used this extensively in story content and in Gods of the Machine, and continued on that with Dxun and recent dailies. So maybe its easier for them, on some developmental level, to basically make a hard mode by default and then nerf things for story and buff things for NiM?

Edited May 3, 2020 by phalczen

[MasterVaako]

The point I'm making is:

 

The hammer station spammers aren't getting the random reward, because they chose to have an easy run over the reward.

 

If you want to avoid hammer station, a method already exists. Uncheck it.

 

Just like in going for the random reward (which, by the way, I usually do), I risk getting umbara, lost island, etc with a totally incompetent group, by going for random, you risk getting grouped with hammer station spammers. That's the nature of random.

 

Perhaps, as I was pointing out in the ev/kp thread, BW should consider why a seemingly large number of players would rather spam 8 year old content than do their newer content. I for one would rather do the 5 millionth hammer station than the headache that is umbara, etc.

 

In other words, maybe new content should exist for the broader spectrum of players. Perhaps if newer FP existed that were similar to HS in difficulty and time commitment, the spammers would queue for them too.

 

After catching up, I see the problem. Your response is super well put! I agree with you completely 😊👌

Edited May 4, 2020 by MasterVaako

[DeannaVoyager]

Um, so rather than deselect some FPs and forego the 'random' reward, you forego flashpoints and their rewards altogether. I'm sure that makes sense to someone. 🤔

🙂

 

Almost. First option: I'd just relog another toon and queue again. I have plenty of alts to use. Most of them even have updated ignore lists with a bunch of HS farmers in them, so they would eventually pop something else.

 

Second option: If I'd have to choose between running through a million HS with toxic morons or not playing at all, not playing at all is a lot more appealing. I am disgusted by the attitude and behaviour of those people, and no reward is worth putting myself through all that. I'm guessing it's the same people that killed ranked pvp with their toxicity, and now they are killing fps just because they can.

[Townowi]

In other words, maybe new content should exist for the broader spectrum of players. Perhaps if newer FP existed that were similar to HS in difficulty and time commitment, the spammers would queue for them too.

 

Well said; asking for new content is one thing, but that new content ought to be playable by a wide array of players (or at least in VM in a FP context). I feel other games that release new content more frequently have learned that lesson but these games have their own sets of issues.

 

For as long as I played this game the newest content has almost always been among the hardest in its category (Queen is the lone outlier, since it's a lot more puggable than all the other group content released in the 5.0 and 6.0 cycles). If anything, if content is impossible to balance, you're better off if it's too easy than if it's too hard.

[JediQuaker]

If I'd have to choose between running through a million HS with toxic morons or not playing at all, not playing at all is a lot more appealing.

Yes, but the choice is not between playing HS and not playing at all. The choice is between not playing at all or deselecting HS and not getting the 'random' bonus.

Not playing at all = no credits, no gear, no fun, no anything.

Deselecting HS = some credits, gear, etc, for running some other FP, but no bonus.

Your choice. 😀

[DeannaVoyager]

Yes, but the choice is not between playing HS and not playing at all. The choice is between not playing at all or deselecting HS and not getting the 'random' bonus.

Not playing at all = no credits, no gear, no fun, no anything.

Deselecting HS = some credits, gear, etc, for running some other FP, but no bonus.

Your choice. 😀

 

I play too much anyways, so not playing at all is perfectly acceptable option for me. When I do flashpoints, I'm only doing it for the rewards, and that's why I go for random (plus it's more interesting too). But yeah, there are things (like HS) that I wouldn't do no matter what the reward is, unless I'm in a premade group, and I know it really popped randomly. I can tolerate bad luck sometimes as long as it's not 99% of the times I use GF.

[KendraP]

I play too much anyways, so not playing at all is perfectly acceptable option for me. When I do flashpoints, I'm only doing it for the rewards, and that's why I go for random (plus it's more interesting too). But yeah, there are things (like HS) that I wouldn't do no matter what the reward is, unless I'm in a premade group, and I know it really popped randomly. I can tolerate bad luck sometimes as long as it's not 99% of the times I use GF.

 

We've agreed on things in the past so I'm trying to be reasonable here. If the reward is irrelevant to you, what is your issue with simply deselecting hammer station?

[JediQuaker]

Personally, I've given up trying to figure that out. I think he just likes hyperbole. 😏

[DeannaVoyager]

We've agreed on things in the past so I'm trying to be reasonable here. If the reward is irrelevant to you, what is your issue with simply deselecting hammer station?

 

It's not completely irrelevant. I do things I like and naturally want the whole reward for the time I used. And things I really don't like I wouldn't do no matter what the reward is.

 

But... I also might do things I don't like at all (even HS), if someone needs my help. In that case the reward really is irrelevant, I'm just doing it to help them out. I probably wouldn't even be so pissed off about HS farming, if the people in the groups would be nice. But they are not, and the biggest concentration of jerks is in HS. Idk why that is.

 

For example the first boss: Some people insist pulling it into the cave to avoid the adds (which are the only thing to keep me awake during that fight). Healers not cleansing tank, and someone getting abusive about it (either tank who dies, or the healer who gets called out for not cleansing). A ridicilous amount of dps is also hitting the adds instead of the boss, but at least they don't cause a wipe, they just make the fight a bit longer.

 

Second boss: Some people want to corner pull all three of them. Nobody focuses the flamethrower and everyone gets cleaved, at least one person dies. People blame tank or healer. If you put a target marker on one of the bosses, it gets removed or moved on the other bosses. If you try to explain why flamethrower needs to die first and why there is no point in corner pulling them, or why there is no point hitting a shielded boss, they get verbally abusive.

 

The turrets: Some people want to skip them, but they always fail to mention it in advance. Someone is left behind and dies, and the abuse begins again. If everyone somehow manages to get over the bridge alive, someone usually still dies because people are really low on HP, and instead of regaining HP on their own, healer now has to top them up.

 

Last boss: Someone always pulls the last boss from the entrance cleaving the whole group with the first conal. Well, maybe not always, but like 90% of the times. Next IQ test is for the tank: do they turn the boss away or not? And if not, is the group smart enough to move to the sides of the boss instead stacking up with the tank. If not, someone dies, they are told to uninstall and so on.

 

So yeah, HS is full of really fun people to play with.

[phalczen]

It's not completely irrelevant. I do things I like and naturally want the whole reward for the time I used.

 

I can appreciate that, but the reward for the time invested is the loot each boss that you defeat drops; and the conquest objective, if applicable; and the counter incrementing towards the [WEEKLY]; and if applicable, an achievement.

 

The crate isn't a reward for the content, its the reward for leaving the outcome to chance, at least to a higher degree.

 

Now, if you want to make an argument that the Role-in-Need reward should NOT be tied to having all FPs checked ... well, I think that is a reasonable argument and worth discussing. An argument along the lines of:

 

"Well, the people in the queue are needing a tank, but I'm not willing to do HS. Role in Need should be more about fulfilling the queue population's need for a tank, rather than rewarding players for subjecting to the randomness of fate, since a reward for that already exists."

 

is not a bad argument, and I would not really have an objection if the Devs decided to remove that requirement from the RiN reward.

 

On a side note, I have not found the crates to be that much better than the last boss in terms of chances for a set bonus piece or a tactical. To the extent that the crates are not even close to the last boss (which, personally, I think they should be on-par), they become even more irrelevant.

[KendraP]

And yet, if you got the same group as the hammer station you're describing in a different FP, it would likely be a total waste of time. You can probably solo vet hammer station, certainly can carry 2 bads.

 

Try carrying that group through umbara.

 

And so, as it turns out, the reward isn't irrelevant to you. Much like the hammer station spammers would probably like the daily reward without having to select randomly, you want random rewards without having to select randomly.

 

As a side note, because we have the ability to select certain FP, we cannot really expect the random button to pop FP at the same rate as putting all the FP names in a hat and pulling them out with replacement. For warzones, that is how it should be, because you cannot choose which warzone you will get. For FP, both level and player preferences affect the rate at which certain FP will pop. This is why, in fact, the reward is tied to having all FP selected.

 

Which is why I concluded earlier - if people are actively ducking certain (newer) FP to run the same FP they've been doing for 8 years, to include forgoing a reward recently sweetened by making it more than a one per day deal, maybe rather than letting us pettily insult each other, BW should ask why.

 

I can't blame the HS vet spammers. The time spent, likelihood of successful completion, and ergo rewards are all reasons I do not like to get the newer FP. I can carry garbage through hammer station; I can't carry garbage through umbara.

Edited May 5, 2020 by KendraP

[JediQuaker]

I've done HS lots and lots of times - dozens even since 6.0.

Only twice have I been in a group that wanted to pull the first boss anywhere. Which does seem kinda pointless, since the blow-up droids are easy to avoid - but it's not a bad thing.

I've never been in a group that tried to LOS the second boss & friends. (A few have ignored the proper 'order'.) (If I'm thinking of the correct group. 😏 )

Only once have I been in a group where someone tried to run past the turrets - and that was me, experimenting.

(The rest of the group found my death funny. 🙂 ).

 

The only minor problem I've run into is at the last boss where, yeah, often times someone will trigger the boss and wipe a person or two with Sweeping Gunfire.

 

But, overall, in all those 100 or so Hammers, I've only seen those issues a few times. Hardly the 90% that some would say. 😍

The main issue with HS for most people is just boredom.

Edited May 6, 2020 by JediQuaker

[DeannaVoyager]

It's possible that I've ran into one or two people, maybe even small group of players who've just happened to q at the same time with different alts on different days, and that's why to me it seems they are all doing idiotic stuff, because they were doing the same idiotic stuff everytime I was in a group. A legacy ignore would help with dodging those kind of people, but as long as we don't have that, I'll just dodge the flashpoint where I've had the worst experiences.

 

Those people might have already stopped farming it, and the competence and attitude of HS farmers could have gotten better since then. I wouldn't know because I had enough of it several weeks ago and haven't joined any HS runs after that.

 

I'm glad you guys have had better experiences, I really am. I'm just personally not willing to risk ending up with a group of idiots. And now that Umbara has been mentioned, I'd rather go there with pugs, no matter how long it takes, because it's something different and a bit more challenging, and because I can always find someone to replace the people who drop the group. The only issue I've had with Umbara was when we were farming the bonus boss with a mate, and people we pugged from fleet insisted doing it like "the webby says". We wiped several times until they started to do as they were told (or rage quit), but when people did what they were told to, it was an easy one shot.

[JediQuaker]

The only issue I've had with Umbara was when we were farming the bonus boss with a mate, and people we pugged from fleet insisted doing it like "the webby says". We wiped several times until they started to do as they were told (or rage quit), but when people did what they were told to, it was an easy one shot.

I'm curious to find out what "the webby way" is and/or what your way is. The relatively few times I've done that bonus boss it was "don't attack the little guys", which worked well enough, but I suspect there may possibly be a better, or at least different, way.

Edited May 7, 2020 by JediQuaker

[Townowi]

I guess I was lucky to have been able to pug Umbara MM with the bonus boss (which isn't nearly as hard as the last boss, nor as hard as it was in 5.10), but my teams tend to take multiple wipes to clear the last boss, if at all; in nearly all my runs of Umbara MM there is that someone that never ran it even in VM, despite it being mechanically identical.

 

For stuff such as Umbara or Meridian, I always ask about whether someone is new to it at the beginning; if there is someone new to the content, I know I will have to explain the fights - and be patient about cutscenes, too. I will always ask for the bonus boss then. I usually find that I get better rewards for the time invested if we kill the bonus vs skipping it, sure it may be a bit longer but not 1/3 longer than skipping it, as far as Umbara and Meridian, especially Pub-Meridian, are concerned, that's the case as well for False Emp and Rakata MM (the same cannot be said of Directive 7, Ilum, Taral V or Maelstrom).

[DeannaVoyager]

I'm curious to find out what "the webby way" is and/or what your way is. The relatively few times I've done that bonus boss it was "don't attack the little guys", which worked well enough, but I suspect there may possibly be a better, or at least different, way.

 

We kill the little guys first. They die really fast, and the sooner they die, the easier it is for the tank to taunt the correct target. Boss keeps disappearing, and usually the first target happens to be an add, and then the boss will be on someone else. If that someone else doesn't have self cleanse, they usually die because healer can only cleanse so many people. If everyone has self cleanse, it's easy to do like the webby says too. Bugged conals make the fight difficult sometimes, but if there is only one target alive, it's easier for everyone to stay away from it.

[JediQuaker]

But, the boss used to Enrage when the little guys were killed. Has that changed or do you just kill him while he rages?

[DeannaVoyager]

He enrages but it's healable. It's mostly the tank taking damage when adds are dead, dps just have to be careful with the conal.

[Euphrosyne]

"DPS should be careful with the conal" is a good idea in theory, but in practice, that dumb boss bugs so much that it's virtually impossible to ensure that the DPS don't get hit, especially if they're melee. In other words, you can get through the fight without hitting the DPS with the boss's conal dot, but if you do, it often has more to do with luck than skill.