Skipping of mobs

[Blivian]

Hello there,

 

I never imagined I'd be someone to create a thread like this on the forums. But amazingly here we are.

 

I wanted to talk about the skipping of mobs in Flashpoints (and Operations etc). Why is it now almost always the default choice to skip every single mob that can be skipped instead of just taking them on? Even when it is by the most ridiculous methods that barely gains anyone any time or in some cases ironically the group tends to even lose time with it? And when the group whipes it can sometimes create quite the predicament as well on the way back.

 

This behaviour that is now so common among the SWTOR playerbase has completely ruined the entire experience for me. Especially when someone aggro's a skippable mob, by accident or not, there is almost always someone who complains about it. Why? Why even bother playing the game if you're so determined on skipping everything? Trying to rush through everything in as little time as possible to collect the rewards seems like a poor way to actually enjoy the game.

 

I've played the game more or less since its launch and back then this was not a thing as far as I can remember. At least not with the same magnitude of today. To see the state of things now is just frustrating for me and takes away my incentive to start up the game. Because I know when I'm doing any group content whatsoever this almost always occurs.

 

Best wishes to everyone for the new year. May the Force be with you.

[JattaGin]

I've played the game more or less since its launch and back then this was not a thing as far as I can remember.

 

There is a difference between killing the same mob 10 times in your life or 1.000 times. It gets very tedious at some point. You don't seem to be at that point yet. I crossed it years ago.

 

Since 6.0 I only play with a stealther. For almost 8 years, my main was a commando medic. Now it's a shadow. I brought my previous main through the new story, but ever since I haven't touched my medic anymore. Everything is just too tedious, too slow and takes too long. With a stealther, things are ok.

 

I only do groups these days when it's a stealth-only group; to not annoy anyone or getting annoyed by others.

[DawnAskham]

If the mobs are easy to skip (without exploits) and don't provide more benefit than the time it takes to kill, I skip - always have, always will.

 

If the group being skipped requires something simple like just walking to the side or a simple jump (not a crazy glitching jump like in Athiis, but a straight forward jump like up to the sides in Bording Party around the useless doesn't drop anything boss), and saves time, I expect to skip.

 

If the group being skipped takes a few seconds to kill while the skip requires crazy jumping mechanics or exploits / glitches or something the average player cannot be expected to do, and most likely will take longer, then I expect to kill the mobs.

 

Also if someone in the group has stealth, and stealth CC allows skips, I expect the group to do so - though I also expect the player that dies after the skip to wait for a rezz and not release and put themselves back behind the skip.

 

Lastly, if you play a higher level Operative or Smuggler - learn your class and use your Infiltrate / Smuggle ability to help your group skip.

 

Oh and to the Assassins / Shadows using the double sleep tactical in groups - I thank you in advance.

Edited January 4, 2020 by DawnAskham

[SteveTheCynic]

People do it because the current reward structure has (indirect) incentives for doing as many repetitiions of group content as possible, and people believe (rightly or wrongly) that by doing *this* or *that* they can complete the current repetition a bit faster.

 

But this is not new. I remember, in 2016 during the Dark v Light event, fulfilling the "run every normal mode flashpoint" condition via Group Finder, and everyone was speedrunning every one of them.

[Caalem]

Because they don't actually enjoy the game but enjoy the slow-drip dopamine release of the skinner box.

[ElZaguero]

Hello there,

 

I never imagined I'd be someone to create a thread like this on the forums. But amazingly here we are.

 

I wanted to talk about the skipping of mobs in Flashpoints (and Operations etc). Why is it now almost always the default choice to skip every single mob that can be skipped instead of just taking them on? Even when it is by the most ridiculous methods that barely gains anyone any time or in some cases ironically the group tends to even lose time with it? And when the group whipes it can sometimes create quite the predicament as well on the way back.

 

This behaviour that is now so common among the SWTOR playerbase has completely ruined the entire experience for me. Especially when someone aggro's a skippable mob, by accident or not, there is almost always...

(blah blah blah, yadda yadda, - edited for brevity)

 

Instead of blaming the players for responding efficiently to the structure of the game, why don't you place the blame where it belongs, at the feet of the devs who made the game into this grindy RNG-fest?

[lpope]

I started playing the game a few months after launch. Skipping trash has been a thing since as far back as I can remember.

 

In a game where gear is a large driver, efficiency is king. Killing mobs are largely not worth the effort. If trash were sparse like dread palace or were less annoying with the cc's and knockbacks, people might not skip them as much. And the mobs that have both the knockback and pull are the worse.

 

Mobs are just not designed properly.

[Jdast]

I'm going to offer a brilliant and new take in this thread. <<sorry, it's the weekend and I've kicked back some Alderannian nectar>>

 

Let's stipulate that players will ultimately find the path of least resistance to gearing. One of the mistakes Onslaught made (and I'm thinking of starting my own thread on this) is...

 

Renown is not nearly as good as Command. It takes longer to get, and the crates are pretty ... meh.

 

While it is true that players emphasized bosses before, they now have even more (let me emphasize that) EVEN MORE reason to ignore trash.

 

Only bosses drop meaningful gear now and trash rewards are less rewarding than pre-Onslaught.

 

Dasty

[SteveTheCynic]

Renown is not nearly as good as Command. It takes longer to get, and the crates are pretty ... meh.

You're wrong here. The crates have negative value rather than being "meh". I just got a crate on a character with iRating 276. The crate contained one item with iRating 274. https://i.imgur.com/J2uEROl.jpg

[Caalem]

You're wrong here. The crates have negative value rather than being "meh". I just got a crate on a character with iRating 276. The crate contained one item with iRating 274. https://i.imgur.com/J2uEROl.jpg

 

Not quite correct, you can crush the items for tech fragments/scrap.

That's pretty much the entire use of renown, which is ridiculous.

[Sarova]

People do it because the current reward structure has (indirect) incentives for doing as many repetitiions of group content as possible, and people believe (rightly or wrongly) that by doing *this* or *that* they can complete the current repetition a bit faster.

 

But this is not new. I remember, in 2016 during the Dark v Light event, fulfilling the "run every normal mode flashpoint" condition via Group Finder, and everyone was speedrunning every one of them.

This is it. Take Hammer Station; even though it's the quickest/easiest FP, more often than not people want to skip the two mech mini-bosses and more often than not someone dies and can't be ressed so we all end up running back to kill them any way and it's take longer than if we'd just killed them. I never saw skipping in Hammer Station before the gearing hell of 6.0 hit, not even during the DvL event. Skipping through cut scenes I can understand but skipping mobs that require melting yourself into a wall, doing an awkward jump or running past mobs that might kill someone anyway is a bit irritating.

 

OP best thing to do, (if you really can't tolerate skip-whores) is to use gen chat to make a non-mob-skip group for FPs. I'd join if I saw the request.

[SteveTheCynic]

Not quite correct, you can crush the items for tech fragments/scrap.

That's pretty much the entire use of renown, which is ridiculous.

True. Although the amount of work required to get those three tech frags is ridiculous, therefore the value is negative. (I crushed about two dozen pieces of junk gear during rank 9, and then got the crate.)

[Jdast]

True. Although the amount of work required to get those three tech frags is ridiculous, therefore the value is negative. (I crushed about two dozen pieces of junk gear during rank 9, and then got the crate.)

 

Agreed. Reread you post.

 

Dasty

Edited January 5, 2020 by Jdast

[sharkfishman]

If the mobs are easy to skip (without exploits) and don't provide more benefit than the time it takes to kill, I skip - always have, always will.

 

If the group being skipped requires something simple like just walking to the side or a simple jump (not a crazy glitching jump like in Athiis, but a straight forward jump like up to the sides in Bording Party around the useless doesn't drop anything boss), and saves time, I expect to skip.

 

If the group being skipped takes a few seconds to kill while the skip requires crazy jumping mechanics or exploits / glitches or something the average player cannot be expected to do, and most likely will take longer, then I expect to kill the mobs.

 

Also if someone in the group has stealth, and stealth CC allows skips, I expect the group to do so - though I also expect the player that dies after the skip to wait for a rezz and not release and put themselves back behind the skip.

 

Lastly, if you play a higher level Operative or Smuggler - learn your class and use your Infiltrate / Smuggle ability to help your group skip.

 

Oh and to the Assassins / Shadows using the double sleep tactical in groups - I thank you in advance.

 

This is a great post.

 

Athiss is a great example, skipping at the right points shaves probably 10 minutes or more off a run.

 

What I hate is when people insist on trying to jump up to that ledge, which usually results in one or more group members getting frozen in the air, waiting for /stuck to come off cooldown, instead of just taking 2 minutes (literally) to pull the mobs up the stairs and AoE them all easily.

[Caalem]

This is a great post.

 

Athiss is a great example, skipping at the right points shaves probably 10 minutes or more off a run.

 

What I hate is when people insist on trying to jump up to that ledge, which usually results in one or more group members getting frozen in the air, waiting for /stuck to come off cooldown, instead of just taking 2 minutes (literally) to pull the mobs up the stairs and AoE them all easily.

 

I can't for the life of me make that jump. I've tried hundreds of times and fail it every time, not really sure why.

[Transcendent]

the path of least resistance

 

/thread.

 

Dasty wins all, give him your credits now before I send out the Bounty Contracts.

[LadyVix]

. Why is it now almost always the default choice to skip every single mob that can be skipped instead of just taking them on?

 

In real life I use Google Maps to navigate my way through town via the fastest route possible. I don't seek to take the longer route "just because," because my objective is to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible.

 

Running a flashpoint isn't much different. My objective is to get from the beginning of the flashpoint to the end so that I can reap the "rewards" of finishing. I follow the path that gets me there as quickly as possible, and I avoid unnecessary delays like killing a hundred extra mobs that someone else wants to kill. Once upon a time those mobs could be mowed down quickly and safely, but with 6.0 mob HP was increased, and killing one extra thing results in having to kill another half dozen things that are subsequently aggroed.

 

No thanks.

 

If you want to play super trooper and do a complete clear, feel free to do it AFTER the run is complete. If I'm on my healer I prefer to run past mobs to the fist boss, take the elevator up rather than clear the bridge, skip the elite turret before the second boss, and sleep/run past the dual elite turrets.

 

My time is precious, and I don't think it's fair to infringe on the time of others by clearing unnecessary garbage mobs.

[DawnAskham]

I can't for the life of me make that jump. I've tried hundreds of times and fail it every time, not really sure why.

 

It's not actually a jump - it's hitting the right sweet spot that glitches the server into putting your character on the ledge - hence borderline exploiting, and for many, impossible to do without getting stuck - much faster to just kill the trash.

[MWidowmaker]

there is a reason they are called "trash"

[Sinhammer]

It's not actually a jump - it's hitting the right sweet spot that glitches the server into putting your character on the ledge - hence borderline exploiting, and for many, impossible to do without getting stuck - much faster to just kill the trash.

 

On my Jugg tank I eventually stopped going for that ledge. We have too many players that just have no idea how to make jumps. It's not really a knock to them, they just can't for whatever reason and it ends up wasting more time waiting on them than it does to just kill the mobs. So now I just leap right into the trash and keep going, I don't care how many players are standing there jumping up and down trying to get on it.

[Void_Singer]

[...] Why even bother playing the game if you're so determined on skipping everything?[...]

Counter question:

Why are you so determined to grind through pointless encounters and waste everyone elses time?

 

I don't ask that to be rude, but to demonstrate a point. You've made an accusatory and presumptive statement, and the fact that you haven't been completely crucified by the people replying shows an amazing amount of restraint on their part.

 

as for a serious answer? why would anyone want to wast time tied up with trash that advances neither the story, nor personal progress of anyone? opportunities for advancement are rare enough with the current idiotic RNG gating, that only rewards speed of getting to the next RNG event. The game does not reward effort, and so players respond by applying the least effort possible. it's not mysterious, it's simple math... limited time + RNG gating = rush to fill time with as many RNG events as possible to reap maximum rewards.

[cyrusramsey]

Counter question:

Why [...] waste everyone else's time?

 

This sticks out to me, because it resembles my line of thought when I first began pugging a lot.

 

My inclination is to clear every instance, where possible, and while I don't stick to this as religiously now as I have in the past, I will still more often than not take out every enemy in an instanced heroic or flashpoint that I'm doing solo. When I started pugging, it was quickly obvious that most people did not think like this, and wanted to complete the run as quickly and smoothly as possible, and.. well.. if that's what most people want, who am I to deny them that? So instead, when pugging, I try to do my part in letting the group complete the run as quickly and smoothly as possible.

 

This includes calling people out for wasting time on supposed shortcuts or pointless cheesing for the sake of cheesing.

 

So.. @OP, being of the type that likes to clear instances, I don't really want to get very confrontational about this, but yeah.. you're outnumbered. Others have as much right to play the way they want as you do, so you adjust to the majority, play solo or find like-minded people to play with, I promise you they exist.

[JediQuaker]

I have a more neutral opinion on this.

For the various reasons discussed, I'm in favor of skipping much of the "trash" that doesn't count for much. But it also depends upon my mood at the time.

 

But, on the other hand, I'm also aware that many times the effort to skip trash is worse than the effort to kill it. Especially those times when it requires jumps or whatever that other players are not familiar with**.

 

Personally, I'm good either way most of the time, but in the long run I do appreciate the occasional full clear.

 

Given the discussion about people dropping out of GF or exiting the group early because they don't like the FP or there's too many "newbies", maybe we should just ask at the beginning if people want to skip trash or bosses and if we don't like the answer, just leave. I mean, most people's general attitude seems be "screw everyone else" anyway. 😋

 

** Edit - just yesterday I was in a vet group doing Athiss. Many of you may be familiar with the point after the first boss where you can jump up to a ledge and skip a couple of enemy groups. After a couple of minutes waiting up top while 2 of the other players tried unsuccessfully to jump up, I finally just jumped down and attacked the mobs. It would have been faster to just attack the mobs from the start. 🙂

Edited January 9, 2020 by JediQuaker

[E-Zekiel]

I used to group every day religiously until it seemed like the tide turned and people want to skip everything now.

 

I don't skip bonus bosses, and I got tired of people complaining about it.

[thefateoff]

Just sat in a que for 20 mins, to get a group that were all stealth (me an Agent with no stealth) and they were skipping everything and leaving me to die.

 

i leave and que AGAIN, same thing happens.

 

There will be no third time, deleted the game and did a charge back on my card for all the stuff i bought this month.

 

Play the damn game the way it was intended.

 

If you have limited time, PLAY SOMETHING OTHER THAN AN MMORPG...SIMPLE.