SW needs to stop bringing the Dead back to Life

[SerraShar]

That's what I've been wondering--whether Malgus may try and track down or stumble across that ship carrying Satele and her Jedi in quarantine. Which is basically just a big pod of pure, dark evil floating through space and someone in search of power and dominance over the galaxy might just love to get their hands on that compact little gift to snack on.

 

Unless they are setting him to die again, mutate into some big giant monster..and we kill him along with whatever is left of Valk for good.

[Darth-Obvious]

Not sure yet how I feel about Malgus--it's cool to see him again but I really hope this isn't another bid of his for power/rule. Guess I'm withholding my opinion until we see what he does/intends to do next. If he stomps his feet again about being Emperor then... meh. Been there, done that I guess. I do think the ending of Ilum was vague enough for his return now to work but again, for me it's all going to come down to why they brought him back and how they're going to handle his story moving forward.

 

I was just thinking earlier about if they were going to replace Acina & Vowrawn who would it be with. I know some people like the idea of Malgus being Emperor because of his views, but he doesn't seem/feel like the "sit on the throne" type of character. He works well in the position he's always had as a Vader esque type of figure.

 

I personally never liked that Jace or Acina had to die on Iokath. I like the idea of the Empire having an Empress. It's something we never get to see, so it's unfortunate that there's no way for her to remain in power or alive rather if you side with the Republic. Same goes for Jace to a degree as well. He's a prominent figure in the SWTOR backstory & in the Republic, so it's unfortunate that he has to die if you side with the Empire.

 

Tenekoriate needs to stay deader than dead. While I loved the stories connected to Vitiate during the original class arcs, and didn't even mind his rise on Yavin 4... I've been disappointed with his story throughout KOTFEET as Valkorion. It changed his impact as this superior, mysterious, embodiment of evil and the dark side to humanize him and make him almost as plain and normal as other baddies.

 

Totally agree. Feels like they dropped the ball with that character. You know he's still alive at the end of the Sith Warrior's class quest, but they waited so long to do anything with that story & what we ultimately got was something that felt like a Mass Effect styled/structured story set in the SW universe.

 

I felt like pre KOTFE they were building up to him returning in his original (Sith Pureblood) body, but instead we see him as this Jeremy Irons like dude who ends up getting taken out early on in KOTFE and it was like "What was the point?" They wanted to put more of a focus on Arcann & Vaylin? Neither of them felt like leaders of an empire, just spoiled children. They never came across as any sort of scary imposing threat either.

 

I don't think this Scourge, Kira, and Satele situation is going to bring Valkorion back. I think it's a way of tying up any loose ends related to his storyline, questions players have had over the years about the who/what/why/when of all his body-hopping and so forth (Charles did promise months ago we'd get answers about his original body for instance). I think it'll be closure on his part of the story while potentially providing a new, different threat.

 

It was kind of weird that all the stuff with his original body happened off-screen.

 

I also hope this Scourge thing does not once more bring back Revan because again, been there, done that. Seen enough of him by now, let him sip tea in the afterlife and stay gone.

 

Agreed, they did enough with Revan in both the original storyline & the expansion. He doesn't need to come back.

 

Lastly, as an avid reader of fan fiction, yes they often do a much better job at the story but I don't think you can honestly compare them to game writers. Fanfiction writers have a lot more freedom in a way. They're not beholden to someone else's vision, the company's vision, having to satisfy thousands of subscribers, staying within resource limits, being mindful of 8 different classes and all associated story and characters and so forth.

 

Yeah I didn't get the whole fan-fiction ramblings. It comes across like "You all know fan-fiction writttig is the worst thing ever right? Well this SW stuff that I don't like is totally fan-fiction!"

[DreadtechSavant]

I don't mind characters returning from the dead, or hearing "Guess what, they didn't actually die", but it's the how of it.

.

 

Well that Ok as you are just as much entitled to your opinion as the OP or me (BTW I might agree on this topic but not much else the OP has said in other threads). We not all the same. I don't like it and never will but ultimately it's down to the writers, and even though I say I don't like it I firmly believe that the players should not have a say one way or the other. However I still think it all been done before so many times. I used to read comics, Google the x-men comics and see how many x-men have been killed off and brought back? I give you a clue only the most recent members have not been killed, then it's only a matter of time. Every other has and some like Cyclopes and Professor X multiple times. That's not even counting the time(s) they have recent the universe. So kinda old now that every franchise is doing it. Even programs such as NCIS are doing it now.

Edited November 15, 2019 by DreadtechSavant

[Xina_LA]

AGREED. Please stop bringing up Valkorion. We've had more than enough game focus on him.

 

Nobody wants to see the Emperor return, I mean Valkorion, yeah...

 

And no planet-killers. Thanks.

 

Personally, I'm okay with the return of Malgus because I thought he had a great story and voice acting.

I saw him as a reformer, what Acina eventually becomes, and I wish there had been an option to join him.

After the next time he "dies", though, please leave him dead.

 

Time for a new villain with a new voice actor (or at least not Troy Baker again).

Dave Fennoy? James McCaffrey? Robin Atkin Downes maybe?

Edited November 15, 2019 by Xina_LA

[Darth-Obvious]

Well that Ok as you are just as much entitled to your opinion as the OP or me (BTW I might agree on this topic but not much else the OP has said in other threads). We not all the same. I don't like it and never will but ultimately it's down to the writers, and even though I say I don't like it I firmly believe that the players should not have a say one way or the other. However I still think it all been done before so many times. I used to read comics, Google the x-men comics and see how many x-men have been killed off and brought back? I give you a clue only the most recent members have not been killed, then it's only a matter of time. Every other has and some like Cyclopes and Professor X multiple times. That's not even counting the time(s) they have recent the universe. So kinda old now that every franchise is doing it. Even programs such as NCIS are doing it now.

 

Yes, as has been stated previously, characters coming back is something that happens with long-form or long-running storytelling. X-Men has been going on how many years at this point? NCIS has run how many years at this point? Star Wars has been around how many years at this point? Even just The Old Republic itself has been going for 8 years.

[ZionHalcyon]

Just going to keep this brief.

 

Valkorion - Dead and gone. Boyd said he wanted to explore what happened to the Emperor's body after he died, but confirmed the Emperor isn't coming back.

 

Malgus - Was never originally intended to die - they changed the mechanic because they couldn't fix it where people couldn't cheese Malgus into jumping into a pit and killing himself. They always were originally intending on him surviving. So to many people, this is righting a wrong.

 

Past this, I think the team knows we are weary of "the dead don't stay dead" stories, so going on and on about it seems like a wasted exercise. I don't think you will see any obviously dead resurrections moving forward - however, that doesn't mean the "I thought you were dead" but we never see the body stuff won't happen here and there.

[casirabit]

😲😱

"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

 

TRAITOR!

 

Oh well, they just don't like the way the empire works. My warrior loved killing those dark council members . (smirks). My agents remembered well what the empire tried to do to them and they have no forgiveness for that.

[SteveTheCynic]

Palpatine... DEAD, leave it at that.

Why the heck is he coming back yet again ala Emperor/VItiate/Valkorian whatever

How many freaking times must we kill this loser?

Hint: It gets old after the first time.

Your chronology is a bit off. Palpatine won't be born for another 3550 in-game years or so.

 

The Sith Emperor during the base game *was* Vitiate (a title given to him by Ragna Markos way far back in the day, when he was just Tenebrae). https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Vitiate His ability to reappear after apparently being killed was established during the JK and SW stories, long before any of the actual "real" reappearances.

 

The "death" at the hands of the JK was not *Vitiate*, but, in effect, his "Voice", a body his spirit was occupying.

 

The spirit was *also* bifurcated, simultaneously occupying the body of Valkorion (who was, after all, just a Zakuulan warrior-king before that happened). The Outlander arrived and, with the connivance of Arcann, killed Valkorion's *body*, but not Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion's spirit. TVV's spirit, at this point somewhat diminished, slid into the Outlander's head.

 

So far, so good, but Tenebrae's original body was never found, and now it is apparent that

 

It was hidden way out there somewhere, at a location that isn't specified but is somewhere in the galaxy, and, more to the point, somewhere that Kira and Scourge were able to find. They destroyed it at the same moment that the Outlander was battling TVV during Chapter IX of KotET, which enabled the Outlander to finally destroy TVV's spirit.

 

So the thing that KC and LS found

 

and that affected them and their initial rescuers including Satele Shan is not TVV, but a "Tomb 19" style of curse that TVV left on his body. TVV is gone, but we still have to deal with the results of someone taking the fourteen beads of jade.

 

 

(1) "Tomb 19" and "fourteen beads of jade" are references to a song by Kansas, called Tomb 19, released on their album Power. The reference is relevant.

[OlBuzzard]

Your chronology is a bit off. Palpatine won't be born for another 3550 in-game years or so.

 

The Sith Emperor during the base game *was* Vitiate (a title given to him by Ragna Markos way far back in the day, when he was just Tenebrae). https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Vitiate His ability to reappear after apparently being killed was established during the JK and SW stories, long before any of the actual "real" reappearances.

 

The "death" at the hands of the JK was not *Vitiate*, but, in effect, his "Voice", a body his spirit was occupying.

 

The spirit was *also* bifurcated, simultaneously occupying the body of Valkorion (who was, after all, just a Zakuulan warrior-king before that happened). The Outlander arrived and, with the connivance of Arcann, killed Valkorion's *body*, but not Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion's spirit. TVV's spirit, at this point somewhat diminished, slid into the Outlander's head.

 

So far, so good, but Tenebrae's original body was never found, and now it is apparent that

 

It was hidden way out there somewhere, at a location that isn't specified but is somewhere in the galaxy, and, more to the point, somewhere that Kira and Scourge were able to find. They destroyed it at the same moment that the Outlander was battling TVV during Chapter IX of KotET, which enabled the Outlander to finally destroy TVV's spirit.

 

So the thing that KC and LS found

 

and that affected them and their initial rescuers including Satele Shan is not TVV, but a "Tomb 19" style of curse that TVV left on his body. TVV is gone, but we still have to deal with the results of someone taking the fourteen beads of jade.

 

 

(1) "Tomb 19" and "fourteen beads of jade" are references to a song by Kansas, called Tomb 19, released on their album Power. The reference is relevant.

 

Nicely done ! With accuracy as always.

 

Still … just the same that is why I would still prefer at the "end" for it to be:

 

 

 

 

I'd prefer to see when they finally stick it to Tenebrae … his rotted spirit or whatever in the name of common sense is left … that his "spirit" reveals and expression of total shock, unbelief and dismay !!

 

After that:

 

** Double line: full stop

** D.C. al Fine

** his (whatever it's termed) … turns once and for all into pixy dust … or something cosmic that says "GONE" !

 

:D:D

 

 

 

[Darth-Obvious]

Time for a new villain with a new voice actor (or at least not Troy Baker again).

Dave Fennoy? James McCaffrey? Robin Atkin Downes maybe?

 

Claudia Black.

 

I don't believe she's done any voices for SWTOR which is kind of surprising given her existing history with Bioware. Many of the most notable or frequently occurring Bioware actors (Jennifer Hale, Cam Clarke, Steve Blum, etc) are in SWTOR, kinda surprised she hasn't been at this point.

[Monumenta]

This whole subject is ridiculous, A New Hope starts with the main antagonist a zombie cyborg that returned from the dead, and then the sequel brings the hero struck down during the first one as a talking ghost for 2 more movies .

 

If you think this premise doesnt belong I think you might actually need to take in some of the source material, you sound like the rubes that got mad because "Star Wars shouldnt get political," seriously, go watch a *********** movie.

[Darth-Obvious]

This whole subject is ridiculous, A New Hope starts with the main antagonist a zombie cyborg that returned from the dead, and then the sequel brings the hero struck down during the first one as a talking ghost for 2 more movies .

 

LOL, that never occurred to me. You're absolutely right though, it's been part of the franchise since the beginning. You also have Obi-Wan's voice telling Luke to use the force at the end of the movie too.

[Xina_LA]

This whole subject is ridiculous, A New Hope starts with the main antagonist a zombie cyborg that returned from the dead, and then the sequel brings the hero struck down during the first one as a talking ghost for 2 more movies .

 

Baloney. He didn't die, he just went cybernetic. He features in a trilogy and doesn't come back for the next two trilogies.

 

The difference to me is that I feel like Valkorion has already had a trilogy and now is getting yet more mention. Also, he keeps "dying" in a variety of strange ways. It's like trying to kill Valdemort from Harry Potter, only worse. Darth Vader, once he died, made an appearance as a Force Ghost, but didn't come back in a new, yet-even-scarier armor suit with more-epic-power! Valkorion kept getting upgrades and power boosts until he was Godlike and they had to make our characters strangely Force-sensitive and Godlike to challenge him.

Edited November 15, 2019 by Xina_LA

[Monumenta]

Baloney. He didn't die, he just went cybernetic.

 

rev·e·nant

/ˈrevəˌnäN,-nənt/

noun

a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

 

"Left for dead" is a thing, maybe you've heard of it.

[VanderII]

Agreed, I'm really irritate for Palpatine!!!!

[Darth-Obvious]

As far as the topic goes [since I haven't posted on it], Kira and Scourge should have returned during Kotet to help destroy the Emperor's relic storehouse. It would have made more thematic sense and Scourge is much more likely to be aware of its existence than Gault was. And this way, they wouldn't be regurgitating the same storyline here. I've only played through on my SW but if I were on a JK I think i'd be pissed that they didn't show up while I was dealing with the main event.

 

Yes, unfortunately, most of the companion returns come across as "These are who we had available to work with at the time." & feel like they're just sort of slotted into a place in whatever the current story is/was at that point. Also with 5 years having passed at the start of KOTFE + an additional year now you always need to explain where the companions were during that time, what they were doing, why you didn't encounter them sooner post time skip, etc. It gets hard/messy & often times is never satisfying.

 

I understand that logistically & economically they just couldn't continue the companion stories/interactions/content to the degree people wanted. The original companions were very much tied to the class stories & once those weren't continuing it becomes harder to find ways/reasons for updating them all, especially if you're trying to update them all at once. Keep in mind that there are 40 of them. 33 of which have English voices, the other 7 being droid/alien speak. Then also take into account that SWTOR is recorded in 3 languages which means that's 99 actors total that they need to reassemble if they're planning on new story content with those characters.

 

I don't think it was a bad or the wrong idea to separate us from our companions at the start of KOTFE. It made sense to do given the situation they had gotten themselves into. You separate the player(s) from their old companions & then introduce a new set of companions that you can more easily work with. Makes total sense, but the execution of that wasn't the greatest.

 

I mentioned it in another thread but given the restrictions they had to work with it really felt like they should have separated us from our companions at the start of KOTFE with our character(s) narrating what happened to them in the opening cutscene(s) aboard our ship(s) With a war having broken out & both sides hit hard it would be easy to explain a lot of characters being absent. For example all the military related characters, Quinn, Pierce, Rusk, Felix, etc, were called back & reassigned. The same could be done with all the force users as well "The Jedi were hit hard by the Zakuul empire. There were many losses. Kira/Nadia was called away by the Jedi Counil in order too..."

 

Had they gone that way you would have at least known where all the companions are/were. You wouldn't have had this lingering curiosity about where they were all the time waiting for them to return. With the time skip the companion's statuses could have evolved further. For instance, the military characters could have reached higher ranks, had more responsibilities, commanded their own team(s) You could give many of the original companions the status types that many characters like Jace, Satele, Malgus, etc, all had in the vanilla game where they are now part of the larger galaxy as a whole rather than continuing to make you the center of their universe again.

[Transcendent]

Stop bringing back Dead characters to Life.

 

Ah, so you want your character to have perma death then? :p

[DarkEcIipse]

Ah, so you want your character to have perma death then? :p

 

If they went that route they could finally make some use out of the legacy tree in-game and give it some purpose other than pretend all your toons are related by displaying them on a UI screen. A few indie games have attempted it although I don't think it would work well in SWTOR. I think if you really want to kill your character in-game the "delete" button suffices.

 

I am in full support of body and face tats/scars. Some people are still waiting for them to release some droid cosmetic costumes other than cyborg parts. They got close a couple of times but always fall short.

Edited November 16, 2019 by DarkEcIipse

[Tsillah]

Palpatine... DEAD, leave it at that.

Why the heck is he coming back yet again ala Emperor/VItiate/Valkorian whatever

How many freaking times must we kill this loser?

Hint: It gets old after the first time.

 

Malgus.

Killed his sorry but , threw him down a well and he should remain lifeless...

But noooo... need to bring him back yet again.

 

Who's next?

Vader? Luke? Acina? Baras?

 

Stop bringing back Dead characters to Life.

DEAD and stay Dead pls.

 

Dont understand this SW universe fascination with bringing back dead people.

Palpatine already came back decades ago. It's called Dark Empire and it was part of the EU.

 

SW is about the quintessential struggle between good and evil and this evil just doesn't go away. The Sith seek immortality and go to great lengths to achieve it. So for me Palpatine and Vitiate make sense. That's part of the core of Star Wars.

 

I will not disagree with you though that it's become a bit of trope and by over-using it, it's lost its impact. So I do understand your reaction.

[Darth-Obvious]

Palpatine already came back decades ago. It's called Dark Empire and it was part of the EU.

 

SW is about the quintessential struggle between good and evil and this evil just doesn't go away. The Sith seek immortality and go to great lengths to achieve it. So for me Palpatine and Vitiate make sense. That's part of the core of Star Wars.

 

I will not disagree with you though that it's become a bit of trope and by over-using it, it's lost its impact. So I do understand your reaction.

 

It's something that's always been a part of Star Wars given the ability for characters to become one with the force.

 

This also isn't a problem with Star Wars specifically either. SW has been a continuing story for what, 30 years now? Basically any franchise (comics, TV, movies, etc) that runs that long is going to bring charcters back. It's happened enough times throughout history at this point that it feels like people should know better at this point.

 

The issue isn't that long running properties bring characters back, it's more that franchises go on for too long or past the point that they need to.

[SerraShar]

yeah, I don't buy that whole ''Well in the movies...the novel..the comic...the Tv show...'' thats how they always did it.

 

so you know ? Its NATURAl and NORMAL .

 

Yeah well guess what ? in all those things, we also had a Showdown with Lighsaber and characters growing in powers . Not using 'Trick' left and right...over and over

 

Beside it kinda stink, cose it feel like they brough Malgus to either DIE again...or to try and rule AGAIN .

 

Doesn't that guy have any imagination ? a hobbie ? lol

[Darth-Obvious]

yeah, I don't buy that whole ''Well in the movies...the novel..the comic...the Tv show...'' thats how they always did it.

 

so you know ? Its NATURAl and NORMAL .

 

Yeah well guess what ? in all those things, we also had a Showdown with Lighsaber and characters growing in powers . Not using 'Trick' left and right...over and over

 

Beside it kinda stink, cose it feel like they brough Malgus to either DIE again...or to try and rule AGAIN .

 

Doesn't that guy have any imagination ? a hobbie ? lol

 

Well, they positioned Malgus as a Vader type figure. Being this dark enforcer/commander. They used too much of an existing character mold I think for Malgus.

 

While Malgus's views aren't anything like that of Vader I think there are people who have a hard time viewing him as anything other than that, including Bioware, and because of that it's probably never going to seem/feel right having him lead the Empire, much in the same way you don't/can't view Vader leading the Empire or rather if Vader is around you always expect there to be someone like Palpatine above him.

 

It's like you're always going to have a brain and a brawn in Star Wars with these types of characters. You'll have the older wiser character who never does much fighting while also having their right hand or student who is very active, loyal, eager to prove themselves, etc.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Darth-Obvious

[DreadtechSavant]

Yes, as has been stated previously, characters coming back is something that happens with long-form or long-running storytelling. X-Men has been going on how many years at this point? NCIS has run how many years at this point? Star Wars has been around how many years at this point? Even just The Old Republic itself has been going for 8 years.

 

Agree it does happen in long running stories but is that really a good excuse. It Ok if it's a character like Jean Gray out of the X-men as she was the phoenix but the rest of the X-men? (BTW 1962 x-men started) Even star Wars if it was a single character it be Ok, but time and time again? To me is just poor writing and as said all been done before so many times in far to many different franchisees Still it is what it is I guess.

[Darth-Obvious]

Agree it does happen in long running stories but is that really a good excuse. It Ok if it's a character like Jean Gray out of the X-men as she was the phoenix but the rest of the X-men? (BTW 1962 x-men started) Even star Wars if it was a single character it be Ok, but time and time again? To me is just poor writing and as said all been done before so many times in far to many different franchisees Still it is what it is I guess.

 

It's more that you probably shouldn't focus on a single cast of characters for that long of a stretch. The writing is no doubt going to give at some point if you do.

 

A better example is probably something like The Simpsons. What else is there for that show to do at this point? Will anything they do at this point ever feel/seem like good writing or will the show always never measure up to the older seasons?

 

Also think about this, is the writing of what came before (in any franchise) actually "good" writing or was it just better than what existed afterwards?

[SerraShar]

Well, they positioned Malgus as a Vader type figure. Being this dark enforcer/commander. They used too much of an existing character mold I think for Malgus.

 

While Malgus's views aren't anything like that of Vader I think there are people who have a hard time viewing him as anything other than that, including Bioware, and because of that it's probably never going to seem/feel right having him lead the Empire, much in the same way you don't/can't view Vader leading the Empire or rather if Vader is around you always expect there to be someone like Palpatine above him.

 

It's like you're always going to have a brain and a brawn in Star Wars with these types of characters. You'll have the older wiser character who never does much fighting while also having their right hand or student who is very active, loyal, eager to prove themselves, etc.

 

I remember Malak getting a scene a La Darth Vader...(Though I personally never watched the movies and never will, so can't say I know what Vader was like) but the fans said that scene was like from the movie. And how that worked for him in the end ? Guy ask for a Time period during the fight so he can Syphon Jeeday in a Tank lolol

 

I guess my gripe is about how...the more time pass..the more..it feel less Star wars (which I always though was all about dueling with Light saber and a show of Powers between LS and DS speech) LOL