Protoaloe Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 This whole expansion is really morally impossible. Unless you are a person who has no scrupels whatsoever! You are playing for months as a person who brings all people together. And now suddenly you have to stab them in the back! Ok this is as a Sith - but even the sith were joining the Jedis etc to work together. Now suddenly you have to cut your heart into half and fight them again? OK I can take a Sith and choose to play Republic! But what is the ONLY result, you be come a spy and still play the other side but even worse, you are forced to play a two faced character! Has anybody in the creation of this explansion considered human morals? OK now you will again delete this and 'warned' me again or kick me. But does thruth hurt or is there an explanation for the above to be able to stomach all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protoaloe Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 OK, I am not allowed to say this. It gets wiped immediately. So: does anybody be emotionally disturbed about say you are a Sith and you have to now burn all the fuel so all the Republicans die die? OK the Sith are the 'bad; ones, but the previous game brought everybody together! It is a jump that is all too sudden to suddenly stag each other in the back? I am really disturbed about this. I have ten chars but I think I will only play the Jedi side now because it makes me feel absolutely horrible to play the 'other side'. OK 'it is just a game', but even in thought I do have scrupels as even in thought to think of things that bad make me very uneasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelious Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) This whole expansion is really morally impossible. Unless you are a person who has no scrupels whatsoever! You are playing for months as a person who brings all people together. And now suddenly you have to stab them in the back! . Stab who in the back exactly? If you playing Empire, Republic never was your friend to begin with. They did exactly nothing to help Alliance, and Saresh was actually trying to kill you and take your place. And all those in your Alliance who were loyal to Republic have probably followed the example of Ayego and quit somewhere around Ossus or even Iokath. Last time you worked with actual Republic forces was all the way back on Yavin IV. And it was years ago. And that coalition was disbanded. So you own Republic nothing. Edited October 30, 2019 by Gelious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JainiaDral Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Heh, in a weird way I know what you mean. I ran Ossus on my LS juggy and... barf. The whole wanton destruction for no reason thing rubbed her and me totally the wrong way. She's always been a bit of a renegade and the one thing she enjoyed most about having her own Alliance was having a space apart from the jerkwads who ran the Empire. After killing the Emperor, she was finally free-- she thought-- until Iokath. I had her rejoin the Imps for Quinn, not because she or I had any love of the Empire. Sadly, she's my way of seeing the Imp side. And even though the storyline is way more interesting than the Pub version on Onderon/Mek-Sha, it still feels demoralizing to run it. My poor warrior ended up offing Vowron and Shaar because she's independent and didn't want to see Mek-Sha become a slave of the Empire. Calling that a DS decision really rankles, TBH. The Pub side of Onslaught was dull as dishwater, but didn't feel like a betrayal of any of my toons' ideals. Just ugh. Not a fan of this new storyline at all. I didn't like the Traitor arc, but this feels worse. Edited October 30, 2019 by JainiaDral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliushorst Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 As an imp loyalist (but independent) I have my own ethical standards for the war - while not directly hurting my side I try minimalize loss of life during conflicts and always opt for diplomacy when it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdast Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Has anybody in the creation of this explansion considered human morals? I hope not -- because I'm a Hutt who lives in a galaxy far, far away. And a fabulous one (both Hutt and galaxy) at that... <<sips Martini with a splash of Alderaanian Nectar before tossing a hapless Gamorrean guard into a Sarlacc PIt for no apparent reason -- my pleasure barge is so awesome>> Nasty Dasty Edited October 30, 2019 by Jdast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I hope not -- because I'm a Hutt who lives in a galaxy far, far away. And a fabulous one (both Hutt and galaxy) at that... <<sips Martini with a splash of Alderaanian Nectar before tossing a hapless Gamorrean guard into a Sarlacc PIt for no apparent reason -- my pleasure barge is so awesome>> Nasty Dasty Damn hutt, never share the drinks! Naughty Dasty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 This whole expansion is really morally impossible. Unless you are a person who has no scrupels whatsoever! You are playing for months as a person who brings all people together. And now suddenly you have to stab them in the back! Ok this is as a Sith - but even the sith were joining the Jedis etc to work together. Now suddenly you have to cut your heart into half and fight them again? OK I can take a Sith and choose to play Republic! But what is the ONLY result, you be come a spy and still play the other side but even worse, you are forced to play a two faced character! Has anybody in the creation of this explansion considered human morals? OK now you will again delete this and 'warned' me again or kick me. But does thruth hurt or is there an explanation for the above to be able to stomach all of this. Well... my Sith Warrior is dark 5 atm, so I never had these issues. I rule with an iron fist, and I don't tolerate fools or traitors. He's literally the opposite of my real life personality. That's the point of RP. I get to be "the bad guy" (I bet you never seen a bad guy look this good- Scarface ) Now my LS Sith Warrior is loyal to the Empire, but tries to be reasonable most of the time. He's got my irl personality. Mostly LS, but will go DS if you test me. I get the feeling OP that you're the type of person who's "always nice & tries to avoid conflict at all cost" so to speak. So even playing a spy or seemingly turning your back on people who were once allies bothers you on a deeper level than most. Where as someone like myself grew up in an environment where you trust few and always expect to be stabbed in the back. The only advice I can give you is accept that you're at war (it is "Star Wars" after all), and make choices that you feel comfortable supporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Part of the problem is that some people think of the game as being more "red vs blue" than "good vs evil". Well, I feel sorry for those who thought they were just joining the red or blue team - but no, when you decided to play the Empire side, you sided with the bad guys. 🙄 There was a brief time when necessity brought both sides together to fight a common enemy, but that's over now. It's sort of like how the Americans and Russians were allies during WWII. Edited October 30, 2019 by JediQuaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakRoanin Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 That's why although all my characters are LS5 they do not have a "Republic" or "Imperial" mindset. For example, in the Vanilla game my JC told Nadia to do what she had to do when her father died because Nadia was not a Padawan yet and it would have been totally wrong to interfere with her people's customs. The same when the Voss wanted to throw the Child of the Emperor off a cliff, she said nothing. Why? Voss isn't a Republic world, and it wouldn't be right to interfere with their justice system. Both these choices are considered Dark Side. But it's not about points, it's about right and wrong. So, some of my PC's have more DS choices than others because of right and wrong rather than what the game tells you is light or dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Yeah, while I agree that getting the story in general back to Empire vs. Republic makes sense in principle, the way its done is bound to induce some narrative whiplash. I mean, we had Satele Shan and Darth Marr themselves essentially holding hands during KOTET and declaring that both Jedi and Sith had it all wrong. And now we are basically supposed to act like none of this had happened. And despite Admiral Aygo everybody is esssentially fine with any of our decisions? I hope they get bolder with narrative consequences in the future. The Alliance simply shouldn't survive longterm if you only play for one team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 My poor warrior ended up offing Vowron and Shaar because she's independent and didn't want to see Mek-Sha become a slave of the Empire. Yeah this made me feel sort of dirty, too. I usually space bar stories, but actually read through a lot of Onslaught and I still feel it was a quality story, but I did not like how neither choices appealed to me on this part. I felt bad for the two being "sacrificed." They didn't deserve that, but at the same time, how does one justify keeping two individuals alive at the cost of an entire planet being enslaved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Yeah this made me feel sort of dirty, too. I usually space bar stories, but actually read through a lot of Onslaught and I still feel it was a quality story, but I did not like how neither choices appealed to me on this part. I felt bad for the two being "sacrificed." They didn't deserve that, but at the same time, how does one justify keeping two individuals alive at the cost of an entire planet being enslaved? I actually didn't have an issue with letting this happen because in that little speech she bragged about playing both sides, and building her power base to try and rival both pubs and imps. Basically I can't let your plan succeed, so we're taking pre-emptive actions to eliminate the chances of you succeeding Edited October 30, 2019 by ImmortalLowlife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeerastul Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I've completed the expansion several times and I had zero problems with it emotionally morally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yeah, while I agree that getting the story in general back to Empire vs. Republic makes sense in principle, the way its done is bound to induce some narrative whiplash. I mean, we had Satele Shan and Darth Marr themselves essentially holding hands during KOTET and declaring that both Jedi and Sith had it all wrong. And now we are basically supposed to act like none of this had happened. And despite Admiral Aygo everybody is esssentially fine with any of our decisions? I hope they get bolder with narrative consequences in the future. The Alliance simply shouldn't survive longterm if you only play for one team. I don't see why it wouldn't. The alliance is vastly made up of people loyal to (or fearing of depending on choices) your character and everything they have done. People who now know they can trust your character to get things done etc. And if you rejoin imp or pub the alliance is no more anyways, so that's moot for rejoiners. My chars are all LS and have earned the respect of their follower. Most have kept the alliance intact and regaurdless of which faction they are currently helping, will always make decisions for the better good of the galaxy, no matter what said faction wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelious Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I mean, we had Satele Shan and Darth Marr themselves essentially holding hands during KOTET and declaring that both Jedi and Sith had it all wrong. And now we are basically supposed to act like none of this had happened. You are confusing the war between two states - Sith Empire and Galactic Republic and conflict between two schools pf the Force - Sith and Jedi. They are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 My agent is a saboteur to the empire. While yes technically Acina helped the Alliance, she also was the one that went to Iokath to take the weapon without even talking to my agent about it so again the Empire stabbed my agent in the back. My agent has no love for the Empire after what they tried to do to her while she was an agent for the empire, which is why at the end of her story she went independent and is why now she will do anything to make sure that the Empire fails in their plan to destroy the Republic. While the Republic is far from perfect if she is going to chose which side to support it will be the Republic. She also doesn't believe in slavery and the comment from that Darth about slavery didn't sit well with my agent and therefore she doesn't feel guilty in the least having Lana kill that Darth. Another thing for me that makes my decisions easy for me is I am a roleplayer so I can create backstories for my character and leave it at that. I don't worry about what my character does and I don't fell guilty for having a character do something. This is mild compare to the forum roleplay I was in before the game launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeny Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 lol just did the ship fuel mission on meksha as a Sith warrior. Didnt blow up the ships but i did to chop off the heads of those two annoying Sith. Awesome!!! There should be more options like this!! So totally unexpected. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzsi Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 My agent is a saboteur to the empire. While yes technically Acina helped the Alliance, she also was the one that went to Iokath to take the weapon without even talking to my agent about it so again the Empire stabbed my agent in the back. My agent has no love for the Empire after what they tried to do to her while she was an agent for the empire, which is why at the end of her story she went independent and is why now she will do anything to make sure that the Empire fails in their plan to destroy the Republic. While the Republic is far from perfect if she is going to chose which side to support it will be the Republic. She also doesn't believe in slavery and the comment from that Darth about slavery didn't sit well with my agent and therefore she doesn't feel guilty in the least having Lana kill that Darth. Another thing for me that makes my decisions easy for me is I am a roleplayer so I can create backstories for my character and leave it at that. I don't worry about what my character does and I don't fell guilty for having a character do something. This is mild compare to the forum roleplay I was in before the game launch. ^^^ this is exactly why I love playing bioware stories. All my characters have their own personalities and backgrounds and the actions I take on any given character is the one that suits them. Right down to my completely insane Inquisitor to my totally sweet Consular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JainiaDral Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yeah this made me feel sort of dirty, too. I usually space bar stories, but actually read through a lot of Onslaught and I still feel it was a quality story, but I did not like how neither choices appealed to me on this part. I felt bad for the two being "sacrificed." They didn't deserve that, but at the same time, how does one justify keeping two individuals alive at the cost of an entire planet being enslaved? I didn't really care for Shaar-- after running the Pub side, she seriously worked my last nerve. But Vowron--that was heartbreaking, especially after he does you a solid on Rishi and risks his safety I really disliked Onslaught. Some of the writing was decent, and I really do like a lot of the characters. For once, though, I wish Bioware would give their characters plotlines that are worthy of them. The Empire/Pub difference is so black and white, and so overdone. There's no grey at all, just lookit we're soo eeevuhl cuz we're Sith. That "difference" your Imp toon notes isn't really that different. So, you've got some slight sense of hierarchy without the same complete degree of destructive anarchy. But the fundamental actions are exactly the same as those last few planetary story arcs beginning with Taris in the vanilla game. So much for Acina's new Empire. It doesn't help that I can't stand Malgus either. Helping that expletive deleted has made me dread where the story's going. For the first time in a long time, I'm not even remotely curious. Because wherever it goes, it's going to be someplace I don't want to. I can't even play my warrior anymore without that feeling of general ickiness and disgust kicking in. Too bad, because I adore Tau and Arn. They also deserve better than the lameness they got on the Pub side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) The whole LS Sith thing has always been weird to me. Not because of the option itself but how it was implemented. Haring said that I think you should've realised that the current Empire is a different one from before. I think that the only choice for a LS Empire character is to choose the Republic side of run info this situation. Acina got ypu good and you just realised it. Again, this Empire is not the same and honestly from a LS point of view you got suckered into this. Edited October 31, 2019 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arutar Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I don't see why it wouldn't. How exactly do you think that Theron, for example, would be willingly working full time to destroy the Republic and the Jedi Order, personal loyalty or not? And even if he does, this should be the biggest moral crisis in his life. Will he remain loyal to the commander or stick to his previous lifelong values and essentially his own family? The fact that such things are hardly brought up at all (except in a passing note) is a big missed opportunity imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelious Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) So, OP, I just run Nathema FP once again on my Agent for the story. When you kill the last boss you get Codex entry State of the Gafaxy. There it's stated, clear as day, that after Alliance lost the Eternal Fleet and the tensions between Rep and Imps renewed, many members of the Alliance returned to their original faction. The only people left in Alliance are the hardcore believers in the Commander himself. Edited October 31, 2019 by Gelious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thenightvortex Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) It is just a game, though. This whole expansion is really morally impossible. Unless you are a person who has no scrupels whatsoever! You are playing for months as a person who brings all people together. And now suddenly you have to stab them in the back! Ok this is as a Sith - but even the sith were joining the Jedis etc to work together. Now suddenly you have to cut your heart into half and fight them again? OK I can take a Sith and choose to play Republic! But what is the ONLY result, you be come a spy and still play the other side but even worse, you are forced to play a two faced character! Has anybody in the creation of this explansion considered human morals? OK now you will again delete this and 'warned' me again or kick me. But does thruth hurt or is there an explanation for the above to be able to stomach all of this. All those people you brought together are the Alliance and you are not stabbing them in the back, they are still together and under your command but allied with a faction. Neither Republic or the Empire are part of this, Acina was your ally if you picked this option but that’s about it. So who are you backstabbing, exactly? Edited October 31, 2019 by Thenightvortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) The only people left in Alliance are the hardcore believers in the Commander himself. Or Herself. 😂 Or for some species - itself. 🙂 But on a related note - so far the two Jedi I've taken through onslaught have opted to have the Alliance rejoined the Republic. It does seem a bit of a stretch that Lana would stay with the Alliance/Republic in that case. (My Gunslingers have kept the Alliance separate, so that's a bit more believable, but only a bit more.) I haven't done the Imp side yet, but I'd also think it would be unrealistic if Theron was to join the Empire along with the Alliance. Edited October 31, 2019 by JediQuaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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