I got hit by an Assassin so hard it uninstalled the game

[TrixxieTriss]

You are dancing around this thing like you don't know it's OP. Give up the stun on Spike and turn it into a root and the damage isnt as bad. If you want to keep double stun give up some burst. You want your cake and to eat it too while pointing to examples that haven't been a problem yet. I don't see roaming packs of snipers instant ambushing everybody the way assassin's have completely turned PVP into a plague.

 

What class do you play?

[Fellow-Canadian]

I've played this game so long I have one of everything now for both factions. Since the expansion release I've only played my commando, scoundrel and vanguard so far.

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

delete10char Edited June 1, 2022 by Mycroft-Tarkin

[jedcjedcjedc]

Imagine actually defending being able to do 90-100% of someones health in just a couple seconds. people forming roaming death squads of stealthers for even regs just to go around swarming people for 50-70k a hit with next to nothing you can do about it.

[Mycroft-Tarkin]

Imagine actually defending being able to do 90-100% of someones health in just a couple seconds. people forming roaming death squads of stealthers for even regs just to go around swarming people for 50-70k a hit with next to nothing you can do about it.

 

A group of 4 sins/operatives could gank you before you could do anything about it, even in 5.0.

[Fellow-Canadian]

Look harder. I have been out "biggest hit"ted by a Sniper in almost every single match where there was a competent one in the game.

 

Nevermind the fact that it is MUCH easier to gear up as a shadow/sin, so there obviously are more shadow/sins than there are Snipers. For now.

 

Read what I wrote again. I was very specific and careful with my words. I am not complaining about snipers at all. They are fine and I don't have trouble with them. I can see a sniper coming and they can't double stun me. I have options to counter play what they're doing.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Fellow-Canadian

[limenutpen]

A group of 4 sins/operatives could gank you before you could do anything about it, even in 5.0.

 

Even two Sins could do it in 5.0. Yet most never understood it.

In solo ranked it happened to me a few times, in the past season. You are focus on healing another player at the start of the game. Versus two sins in burst spec you are doomed, if they crit. Double stun, boom vanished.

I use to say in start of a SR game yet many do not give a ****. But hey that is solo ranked for you. So unless you have a peeler you are doomed.

We will see when gear scales out. To be honest with Sniper vs 2 Sins I had a similar problem defending node, not even time to write G2, I was dead. But I was like 280 gear. Now with 300 and upwards gear things seems to be more manageable.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Read what I wrote again. I was very specific and careful with my words. I am not complaining about snipers at all. They are fine and I don't have trouble with them. I can see a sniper coming and they can't double stun me. I have options to counter play what they're doing.

 

You say you have counter play options to what a sniper is doing. The same applies to assassin. Ok, I'll instead teach you a bit about game mechanics to teach you how to counter the Sins that are coming from no where.

 

Are you familiar with this setting: https://i.imgur.com/e1ifu1F.png ?

 

If not, this setting allows you to "queue up" abilities to be used at the time interval after they've been hit. In this case, a 0.5 second ability queue allows you to press an ability 0.5 seconds ahead of time, and after 0.5 seconds has passed, the ability will activate, unless the ability is able to be activated sooner.

 

What does this have to do with anything, you may be asking?

 

Spike has a stun duration of 2 seconds. The global cooldown (GCD) works in 1.4 second intervals for people who have geared properly. That means that after a Shadow/Assassin player attacks you, they can use exactly 1 ability in that 2 second window. In between their 2nd ability and the next hard stun (electrocute) you have exactly 0.8 seconds to react. *However* with the ability action queue going all the way up to 1 second, you actually have 1.8 seconds to react and press an ability (Defensive cooldown) before you are stunned a 2nd time. That's over a full global cooldown to react.

 

You say you play Mando/Scoundrel. Test it out. If you spam Rocket out or Roll after Spike, you will always escape and can NOT be stun locked if you have even semi decent reaction time of 1.8 seconds (A FULL GLOBAL COOLDOWN + .4 SECONDS). Ability action queue is to counter Lag, but it also works to react quicker than normal to stuns and things of that nature.

 

An assassin can NOT stun lock players who are paying attention. If you aren't paying attention, it's easy to miss this 1.8 second window, but then is that the fault of the Assassin player or your own?

 

I actually made various videos about these types of mechanics and settings years ago, almost 5 years ago to be exact, you can see them all here:

 

So no, I'm not "defending" the burst because it's "OP". I'm defending the opener because it's fair and you have 2 chances to escape, once after the first spike and again after the 2nd hard stun by CC breaking.

 

Also, you mentioned that if you CC break after hard stun 2 that the sin can just vanish and do it again. How can that be if after the 2nd hard stun you are full resolve and have CC immunity for 12 seconds (Spike + electrocute builds 1,200 resolve, another topic which I cover here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuoI8GfGuDI&list=PLF9XkDcbZUeWo6Gy0VgoNl-edttiinrIV&index=3)

 

If you want to test this, I'm more than willing to roll any class you wish on your server of choice and let you try to stun lock me with the opener I've put in my PvP video that many people are doing now a days. And 100% of the time, I will escape after the first hard stun of Spike.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

I'll even do you one better for all of you out there who think this is OP and has no counter play. Set you ability action queue up so that you have more time to react. After that:

 

Sniper/Operative: Spam Exfiltrate/Covered Escape, Evasion

 

Jugg/Maruader: Spam Mad Dash, Intercede/Leap (to another player), Force Camo, Saber Ward or Deflection, Enraged Defence

 

Mando/PT: Spam Rocket Out, Power Shield, Reflect Shield

 

Sorc/Sin: Phase walk, Force Shroud, Deflection, Vanish, Static Barrier + Adrenal, Self Preservation, Force Speed

 

If the sin hasn't used Shroud, just hard stun him. There is a whole host of ways to escape after the first stun if you're paying attention.

 

I'm wiling to take this moment as a teaching opportunity because I have seen people knee-jerk react to Sins and Operatives time and time again and get them nerfed for no reason. There *is* counter play to the sin opener, you must be reacting far too slowly to see it though.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[TrixxieTriss]

You say you have counter play options to what a sniper is doing. The same applies to assassin. Ok, I'll instead teach you a bit about game mechanics to teach you how to counter the Sins that are coming from no where.

 

Are you familiar with this setting: https://i.imgur.com/e1ifu1F.png ?

 

If not, this setting allows you to "queue up" abilities to be used at the time interval after they've been hit. In this case, a 0.5 second ability queue allows you to press an ability 0.5 seconds ahead of time, and after 0.5 seconds has passed, the ability will activate, unless the ability is able to be activated sooner.

 

What does this have to do with anything, you may be asking?

 

Spike has a stun duration of 2 seconds. The global cooldown (GCD) works in 1.4 second intervals for people who have geared properly. That means that after a Shadow/Assassin player attacks you, they can use exactly 1 ability in that 2 second window. In between their 2nd ability and the next hard stun (electrocute) you have exactly 0.8 seconds to react. *However* with the ability action queue going all the way up to 1 second, you actually have 1.8 seconds to react and press an ability (Defensive cooldown) before you are stunned a 2nd time. That's over a full global cooldown to react.

 

You say you play Mando/Scoundrel. Test it out. If you spam Rocket out or Roll after Spike, you will always escape and can NOT be stun locked if you have even semi decent reaction time of 1.8 seconds (A FULL GLOBAL COOLDOWN + .4 SECONDS). Ability action queue is to counter Lag, but it also works to react quicker than normal to stuns and things of that nature.

 

An assassin can NOT stun lock players who are paying attention. If you aren't paying attention, it's easy to miss this 1.8 second window, but then is that the fault of the Assassin player or your own?

 

I actually made various videos about these types of mechanics and settings years ago, almost 5 years ago to be exact, you can see them all here:

 

So no, I'm not "defending" the burst because it's "OP". I'm defending the opener because it's fair and you have 2 chances to escape, once after the first spike and again after the 2nd hard stun by CC breaking.

 

Also, you mentioned that if you CC break after hard stun 2 that the sin can just vanish and do it again. How can that be if after the 2nd hard stun you are full resolve and have CC immunity for 12 seconds (Spike + electrocute builds 1,200 resolve, another topic which I cover here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuoI8GfGuDI&list=PLF9XkDcbZUeWo6Gy0VgoNl-edttiinrIV&index=3)

 

If you want to test this, I'm more than willing to roll any class you wish on your server of choice and let you try to stun lock me with the opener I've put in my PvP video that many people are doing now a days. And 100% of the time, I will escape after the first hard stun of Spike.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

I'll even do you one better for all of you out there who think this is OP and has no counter play. Set you ability action queue up so that you have more time to react. After that:

 

Sniper/Operative: Spam Exfiltrate/Covered Escape, Evasion

 

Jugg/Maruader: Spam Mad Dash, Intercede/Leap (to another player), Force Camo, Saber Ward or Deflection, Enraged Defence

 

Mando/PT: Spam Rocket Out, Power Shield, Reflect Shield

 

Sorc/Sin: Phase walk, Force Shroud, Deflection, Vanish, Static Barrier + Adrenal, Self Preservation, Force Speed

 

If the sin hasn't used Shroud, just hard stun him. There is a whole host of ways to escape after the first stun if you're paying attention.

 

I'm wiling to take this moment as a teaching opportunity because I have seen people knee-jerk react to Sins and Operatives time and time again and get them nerfed for no reason. There *is* counter play to the sin opener, you must be reacting far too slowly to see it though.

 

Good write up. But I’m not sure the 0.5 works for everyone.

 

As I play with 220-250ms ping, I usually have mine set to 0.25 because if I don’t, it seems my reactions are too slow to react to what’s happening because I’m either dead before my things activate or a person is out of range when they do activate.

 

Am I imagining this or is my ping high enough for it to cancel out the advantage of having it at 0.5?

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Good write up. But I’m not sure the 0.5 works for everyone.

 

As I play with 220-250ms ping, I usually have mine set to 0.25 because if I don’t, it seems my reactions are too slow to react to what’s happening because I’m either dead before my things activate or a person is out of range when they do activate.

 

Am I imagining this or is my ping high enough for it to cancel out the advantage of having it at 0.5?

 

The higher your ping, the higher you want your Q.

 

I'm an NA player playing on an EU server, I personally use 1.0 second Ability action queue. The 0.5 was just an example screenshot.

[sharkfishman]

The problem isn't whether you can or cannot react to these issues. The problem is how unbalanced tacticals make PVP.

 

It's funny to see people compare sins to snipers and say, "hey, if they can do it, then so should we." You don't balance an OP ability with another OP ability. Same with operatives getting 6 rolls. The devs simply wanted things that looked great on paper, then locked the door and tossed away the key. Who cares about balance, right?

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

The problem isn't whether you can or cannot react to these issues. The problem is how unbalanced tacticals make PVP.

 

It's funny to see people compare sins to snipers and say, "hey, if they can do it, then so should we." You don't balance an OP ability with another OP ability. Same with operatives getting 6 rolls. The devs simply wanted things that looked great on paper, then locked the door and tossed away the key. Who cares about balance, right?

 

He said that the problem is that there is no counterplay to the assassin's opener, that has literally nothing to do with Tacticals.

 

Tactical's effect on PvP is different issue to the main subject of this thread.

[sharkfishman]

He said that the problem is that there is no counterplay to the assassin's opener, that has literally nothing to do with Tacticals.

 

Tactical's effect on PvP is different issue to the main subject of this thread.

 

The original post was about how hard assassins are hitting for in PVP. Tacticals directly affect this (as your video so majestically illustrates). Trying to say, yeah but snipers... yeah but roll, yeah but change your computer settings... is nothing more than a diversion. The issue at hand is whether any class should be able to perform those numbers (what can 2 sins do during that window? Are you telling me a second sin can't use a stun earlier and prevent your escape? what can a sin and a sniper do during that 2 second window?).

[SlimeyDoom]

Let’s get one thing clear. People who are defending Assassin right now are being ridiculous. It’s true assassins have very little defensive capability, but that doesn’t mean they should be hitting insanely hard. What it means is that some of their defensive toolkit needs to be buffed and reworked, and that damage should be kept at a reasonable level.

 

Also, I love how when confronted about assassins krea is like “what about snipers omg so op!!!1!!!”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

The original post was about how hard assassins are hitting for in PVP. Tacticals directly affect this (as your video so majestically illustrates). Trying to say, yeah but snipers... yeah but roll, yeah but change your computer settings... is nothing more than a diversion. The issue at hand is whether any class should be able to perform those numbers (what can 2 sins do during that window? Are you telling me a second sin can't use a stun earlier and prevent your escape? what can a sin and a sniper do during that 2 second window?).

 

Tacticals do not directly affect how *hard* sin hits. My video demonstrates how to gain extra utility from swapping tacticals. Utility does not equal more damage.

 

Two Cloaks: This isn't used in the opener at all.

 

Life Warden: How is this used to hit harder?

 

Friend of the Force: Once again, how does this make sin hit harder?

 

Blade of the Elements: Reaping strike isn't used in the opener because it doesn't hit as hard as maul

 

Awakened flame: This is the only one that can be applied to the opener, yet you wouldn't start with this anyway, you start combat with Two Cloaks active.

 

________________________________

 

Explain to me again how tacticals affect the sin's opening damage?

 

You say "are you saying a 2nd sin can't apply a stun in that window?" This means you are 1v2 now, right? So now the issue is 1v2 instead of a singular assassin's opener dps? Could you not say the same about being 1v2 vs ANY class? Since all classes can stun lock you with 2 players vs 1?

 

I like how we keep moving the goal post further and further from the original point of the OP, which was ONE assassin doing burst damage from their OPENER only, not from sustained damage/etc.

 

Keep on moving those goal posts, I'm sure it will get sin nerfed eventually if we move them far enough

Edited November 2, 2019 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Let’s get one thing clear. People who are defending Assassin right now are being ridiculous. It’s true assassins have very little defensive capability, but that doesn’t mean they should be hitting insanely hard. What it means is that some of their defensive toolkit needs to be buffed and reworked, and that damage should be kept at a reasonable level.

 

Also, I love how when confronted about assassins krea is like “what about snipers omg so op!!!1!!!”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

When confronted about assassins, I offered a solution on how to get out of the "stun lock". Or did you skip that post and jump straight to the conclusion that I'm only using whataboutism instead of offering construct feedback on how to counter the Sin opener? Hmm?

[Lhancelot]

Also, I love how when confronted about assassins krea is like “what about snipers omg so op!!!1!!!”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

lol never heard of that thanks for posting it.

 

Honestly this thread reminds me of past threads, like the old Smashmonkey Jugg threads. People who played juggs defended smashmonkeys too with pages of instructional directions on how to manage them and their OP'ness.

 

The bad thing for sins is if they nerf them they are going to demolish this class. Again. It's always that way, if the nerf hammer hits, it's going to obliterate whatever it touches.

 

If I was a sin, I wouldn't defend it in lengthy writings. All that does is draw more attention to the complaint that they are OP'd. Best to just stay mum and enjoy your OP'ness, K'rea.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

lol never heard of that thanks for posting it.

 

Honestly this thread reminds me of past threads, like the old Smashmonkey Jugg threads. People who played juggs defended smashmonkeys too with pages of instructional directions on how to manage them and their OP'ness.

 

The bad thing for sins is if they nerf them they are going to demolish this class. Again. It's always that way, if the nerf hammer hits, it's going to obliterate whatever it touches.

 

If I was a sin, I wouldn't defend it in lengthy writings. All that does is draw more attention to the complaint that they are OP'd. Best to just stay mum and enjoy your OP'ness, K'rea.

 

If they nerf sins, I will still play them regardless. It's just insane that the goal post keeps moving for what's considered OP. First, the premise of the thread is that the opener damage is OP and then OP states that it would be fine if you couldn't stun lock with 2 stuns in a row.

 

So I show that you can, in fact, do something between stun #1 and stun #2, proving that it's not a true Stun lock because there is a window where you are not stunned where you can react.

 

Then the goal post is moved saying that it has nothing to do with the stuns but instead the tacticals providing too much damage. So I prove that NONE of the tacticals provide increased damage in the opener, which is the issue at hand (once again, premise of the thread is the opener does to much damage since we can "stun lock".)

 

Now the goal post is moved saying that it has nothing to do with any of that and that it's instead an issue of 2 sins being able to stack their stuns.

 

So yea, you're right, I'm done trying to defend stupidity. Have a nice day friends

[SlimeyDoom]

When confronted about assassins, I offered a solution on how to get out of the "stun lock". Or did you skip that post and jump straight to the conclusion that I'm only using whataboutism instead of offering construct feedback on how to counter the Sin opener? Hmm?

 

You may have offered your take on how to react to the sin opener, but that does not really address what the majority of people in this thread are saying (which is that sin damage is too high, particularly in the opener).

 

Sniper hits MUCH harder with 3x more defensive abilities and is augmented by a team MUCH better than Assassin. Snipers can hit 100k insta cast ambushes.

 

This is still a textbook logical fallacy, independent of what your previous post was. Rather than countering the argument that sins do a lot of damage, you go and say "What about snipers? They're even stronger!"

 

So yes, whataboutism. It's a shame because usually I appreciate the time and effort you put in to improve the community by putting out high quality guides on things like focus targeting, class gearing, etc. We just disagree on this I guess.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

You may have offered your take on how to react to the sin opener, but that does not really address what the majority of people in this thread are saying (which is that sin damage is too high, particularly in the opener).

 

 

 

This is still a textbook logical fallacy, independent of what your previous post was. Rather than countering the argument that sins do a lot of damage, you go and say "What about snipers? They're even stronger!"

 

So yes, whataboutism. It's a shame because usually I appreciate the time and effort you put in to improve the community by putting out high quality guides on things like focus targeting, class gearing, etc. We just disagree on this I guess.

 

Do you not see your own logical fallacy or are you purposefully trolling? I can't tell. Let me spell it out for you and how my comment on Sniper isn't whataboutism but is instead, directly related.

 

This is a quote from the OP.

Can we balance how hard Assassins are hitting right now in PVP, before they make every other class in the game totally irrelevant?

 

From this quote, I made the comment that Snipers can hit 100k. The purpose of this comment is to show that despite a class being able to hit hard, there are obviously other factors that come into play on whether something is balanced or not. You don't just balance based on can they do alot of damage. That would be idiotic and if that were the case, Powertech would be nerfed because they do a ton of damage. FROM HERE, THE GOAL POST IS MOVED TO THE FOLLOWING:

 

The only thing more ridiculous than this title is how good stunlocking people to death from stealth is. Being able to do insane damage is one thing, but being able to do it while your opponent eats 2 chained stuns really breaks the balance in PVP

 

You are dancing around this thing like you don't know it's OP. Give up the stun on Spike and turn it into a root and the damage isnt as bad

 

So to counter this point, I provide a way to NOT get stunlocked by making it so that you can react after stun #1 and before stun #2. That should alleviate the issue of taking Insane burst while being stunlocked right? Because then you're just taking insane burst, but NOT being stunned while taking it, meaning you can pop DCDs. I mean, OP literally says himself, if you give up the stun lock combo, it's not that bad, so by proving that you can, in fact, disrupt the stun lock combo, things shouldn't be that bad anymore, by OP's standards, right?

 

But no, then the Goal post moves EVEN FURTHER:

 

people forming roaming death squads of stealthers for even regs just to go around swarming people for 50-70k a hit with next to nothing you can do about it.

 

So now the issue is no longer 1 single sin doing his singular Opener, it's now that there are multiple players screwing 1 single player. So now this is somehow only relegated to assassin's doing it, but if I mention that snipers can also do this by going as multiple snipers and using INSTA CAST AMBUSH FOR 100K, WHICH HAS NO COUNTER PLAY, that's suddenly whataboutism and it's fine for Sniper to be able to do this because we need to nerf Assassin. My argument was not, "but what about snipers, wahhh!" my argument was "contextually speaking, all classes are capable of doing something insane, here's an example of snipers doing it, yet at the same time, they are *still considered balanced*" Somehow you missed my context to purely twist my words though, something I'm used to the masses doing these days since outrage media is all the rage today.

 

But it gets better Now the goal posts is no longer even in the endzone, it's all the way in the pacific Ocean:

 

The original post was about how hard assassins are hitting for in PVP. Tacticals directly affect this

 

So i counter with a post showing EVERY TACTICAL A SIN USES and showing how NONE OF THEM increase Opener burst damage, meaning this user has clearly just made stuff up for the hell of it, to get Sins nerfed.

 

And after using logic to counter all of these idiotic points, you're still trying to twist my words around to make it look like I'm defending an OP spec.

 

So here, quote me on this: Devs, please nerf Sins and Shadows. I don't care if you nerf them into the ground since I will continue to play them, just as I have when they've been nerfed in the past for multiple expansions. But before you do, please look into the credibility of all of these complaints first, since half of the arguments against sins are literal lies and disinformation. Thanks.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[Zurules]

You seem like the type of person who can't debate the ideas but attacks the character of the person instead. Weak! Explain how I'm wrong for starters.

 

I'm sorry if you are offended by having a solo player type of mind. This is the what can "i" do type of thinking. When the "i" cannot provide someone with a solution, they often go and complain.

 

Is our opening burst very strong, 100% agree with everyone. How you can stop it you ask? Have a teammate stun or mezz them, put accuracy debuff on them, guard you, knock them back, etc.... This is what i refer to as this being a TEAM game. There will always be moments where YOU CANNOT do anything about what your opponent does to you, but there are rarely ever a situation where your entire team cant do anything to counter it either. If you played vs good team ranked hard swap teams, this concept would be very familiar to you.

[Fellow-Canadian]

You say you have counter play options to what a sniper is doing. The same applies to assassin. Ok, I'll instead teach you a bit about game mechanics to teach you how to counter the Sins that are coming from no where.

 

Are you familiar with this setting: https://i.imgur.com/e1ifu1F.png ?

 

If not, this setting allows you to "queue up" abilities to be used at the time interval after they've been hit. In this case, a 0.5 second ability queue allows you to press an ability 0.5 seconds ahead of time, and after 0.5 seconds has passed, the ability will activate, unless the ability is able to be activated sooner.

 

What does this have to do with anything, you may be asking?

 

Spike has a stun duration of 2 seconds. The global cooldown (GCD) works in 1.4 second intervals for people who have geared properly. That means that after a Shadow/Assassin player attacks you, they can use exactly 1 ability in that 2 second window. In between their 2nd ability and the next hard stun (electrocute) you have exactly 0.8 seconds to react. *However* with the ability action queue going all the way up to 1 second, you actually have 1.8 seconds to react and press an ability (Defensive cooldown) before you are stunned a 2nd time. That's over a full global cooldown to react.

 

You say you play Mando/Scoundrel. Test it out. If you spam Rocket out or Roll after Spike, you will always escape and can NOT be stun locked if you have even semi decent reaction time of 1.8 seconds (A FULL GLOBAL COOLDOWN + .4 SECONDS). Ability action queue is to counter Lag, but it also works to react quicker than normal to stuns and things of that nature.

 

An assassin can NOT stun lock players who are paying attention. If you aren't paying attention, it's easy to miss this 1.8 second window, but then is that the fault of the Assassin player or your own?

 

I actually made various videos about these types of mechanics and settings years ago, almost 5 years ago to be exact, you can see them all here:

 

So no, I'm not "defending" the burst because it's "OP". I'm defending the opener because it's fair and you have 2 chances to escape, once after the first spike and again after the 2nd hard stun by CC breaking.

 

Also, you mentioned that if you CC break after hard stun 2 that the sin can just vanish and do it again. How can that be if after the 2nd hard stun you are full resolve and have CC immunity for 12 seconds (Spike + electrocute builds 1,200 resolve, another topic which I cover here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuoI8GfGuDI&list=PLF9XkDcbZUeWo6Gy0VgoNl-edttiinrIV&index=3)

 

If you want to test this, I'm more than willing to roll any class you wish on your server of choice and let you try to stun lock me with the opener I've put in my PvP video that many people are doing now a days. And 100% of the time, I will escape after the first hard stun of Spike.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

I'll even do you one better for all of you out there who think this is OP and has no counter play. Set you ability action queue up so that you have more time to react. After that:

 

Sniper/Operative: Spam Exfiltrate/Covered Escape, Evasion

 

Jugg/Maruader: Spam Mad Dash, Intercede/Leap (to another player), Force Camo, Saber Ward or Deflection, Enraged Defence

 

Mando/PT: Spam Rocket Out, Power Shield, Reflect Shield

 

Sorc/Sin: Phase walk, Force Shroud, Deflection, Vanish, Static Barrier + Adrenal, Self Preservation, Force Speed

 

If the sin hasn't used Shroud, just hard stun him. There is a whole host of ways to escape after the first stun if you're paying attention.

 

I'm wiling to take this moment as a teaching opportunity because I have seen people knee-jerk react to Sins and Operatives time and time again and get them nerfed for no reason. There *is* counter play to the sin opener, you must be reacting far too slowly to see it though.

 

This is actually a really good post. Very useful information for those who are struggling.

 

I was aware of the setting personally and I had to make adjustments until things felt right. I really toyed with it when the servers merged into east coast only. My ping was significantly affected and I jumped from a 35ping to around 200-230. What I found interesting was that I had never really thought of adjusting that setting as a way of reacting quicker in PVP. I had always associated it with fixing latency.

 

I shouldn't be saying there is zero counterplay to an Assassin, but a hugely diminished one. You have to play perfectly or you're dead. Sometimes, you can play perfectly and it's not enough.

 

Context is useful when we talk about class balance because it's difficult to put 2 classes in a vacuum and come up with a theoretical way the two classes would always interact. Even more difficult is coming up with a conclusion that everyone could agree on. Player skill is also a big factor when analyzing things on a small scale. I thought I might try and provide some context in video form.

 

I will call this

 

I record all of my PVP and I end up deleting the vast majority of games. I don't like to post games to youtube unless they have something interesting happen or feature great moments of perfect execution. So, I went digging through the games I haven't deleted yet and found the one I was looking for. I wanted to see if perhaps if I could put it up as an example of some of the things I've been talking about. I thought this might be a useful aid for the sake of discussion. I am aware I am putting myself out there to be criticized and it's okay. Also, if folks believe they could have done better in the same circumstance, I would love to see your great gameplay videos on youtube.

 

To preface this video, it was a one-sided loss and you could tell my team was bad. I know player skill is a factor in a lot of cases and that could be discussed, but it's more of an aside because you almost never see much of my teammates. My character is geared in low unoptimized 290s and has no set bonus of any kind. I'm also using the hot on med-shot tactical as it's the only one I have.

 

Kre'a, you'll want to take notice at the start when I'm opened on by an Assassin. I rocket out immediately and root the assassin. I then break line of sight as quickly as possible to avoid any further cc. Textbook execution, amirite? Maybe we could put the l2p talk to bed on this one. I am aware there are SOME things you can do, but I'm still maintaining the opener is way too lethal. I have offered some suggestions on changes but so far very there has been little acknowledgement or discussion on that. Anyways, I appreciated your well thought out post and find posts like it are way more interesting to discuss. We can, of course, agree to disagree at the end of the day, but the conversation is worth having since 6.0 is the start of a whole new meta.

[Josewales]

Damn I wish my Elite WL 'Hashashin' deception sin had this kind of 'fotm' burst last few years. I might have to dust her off with legacy 306 gear and see for myself. I loved being a pain in the WZ arse with her until I fell in love with the high octane carnage mara. Tempting.

 

Deception sins did need a small bump in burst in the past and better regen rate for mauls, but not these crazy numbers within a CC window players are reporting.

 

Anyways once again SWTOR goes through bias OP defenses and offences coming out of a major update gate. When was the last time an OP or imbalanced class was left alone after a major update? Why buck the trend now? Because some argue better than others?

 

The one thing that worries me is a train of deception sins stun locking and hard swap like a game of hopscotch. Similar to smash monkeys back when. Which had me initially leaving the game for awhile back then. FOTM classes always supplies the numbers to create such an epidemic. Diminishing returns or sins lose dps when next to each other is the answer? There is always a solution to a problem.

 

Anyways I am ready to be called an idiot by Krea:P

 

Cheers

Edited November 2, 2019 by Josewales

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Damn I wish my Elite WL 'Hashashin' deception sin had this kind of 'fotm' burst last few years. I might have to dust her off with legacy 306 gear and see for myself. I loved being a pain in the WZ arse with her until I fell in love with the high octane carnage mara. Tempting.

 

Deception sins did need a small bump in burst in the past and better regen rate for mauls, but not these crazy numbers within a CC window players are reporting.

 

Anyways once again SWTOR goes through bias OP defenses and offences coming out of a major update gate. When was the last time an OP or imbalanced class was left alone after a major update? Why buck the trend now? Because some argue better than others?

 

The one thing that worries me is a train of deception sins stun locking and hard swap like a game of hopscotch. Similar to smash monkeys back when. Which had me initially leaving the game for awhile back then. FOTM classes always supplies the numbers to create such an epidemic. Diminishing returns or sins lose dps when next to each other is the answer? There is always a solution to a problem.

 

Anyways I am ready to be called an idiot by Krea:P

 

Cheers

 

I'll only call you an idiot if you decide to blatantly lie to bolster your argument, which is an incredibly disingenuous and idiotic thing to do since the quote function exists, as well as fact checking

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

This is actually a really good post. Very useful information for those who are struggling.

 

I was aware of the setting personally and I had to make adjustments until things felt right. I really toyed with it when the servers merged into east coast only. My ping was significantly affected and I jumped from a 35ping to around 200-230. What I found interesting was that I had never really thought of adjusting that setting as a way of reacting quicker in PVP. I had always associated it with fixing latency.

 

I shouldn't be saying there is zero counterplay to an Assassin, but a hugely diminished one. You have to play perfectly or you're dead. Sometimes, you can play perfectly and it's not enough.

 

Context is useful when we talk about class balance because it's difficult to put 2 classes in a vacuum and come up with a theoretical way the two classes would always interact. Even more difficult is coming up with a conclusion that everyone could agree on. Player skill is also a big factor when analyzing things on a small scale. I thought I might try and provide some context in video form.

 

I will call this

 

I record all of my PVP and I end up deleting the vast majority of games. I don't like to post games to youtube unless they have something interesting happen or feature great moments of perfect execution. So, I went digging through the games I haven't deleted yet and found the one I was looking for. I wanted to see if perhaps if I could put it up as an example of some of the things I've been talking about. I thought this might be a useful aid for the sake of discussion. I am aware I am putting myself out there to be criticized and it's okay. Also, if folks believe they could have done better in the same circumstance, I would love to see your great gameplay videos on youtube.

 

To preface this video, it was a one-sided loss and you could tell my team was bad. I know player skill is a factor in a lot of cases and that could be discussed, but it's more of an aside because you almost never see much of my teammates. My character is geared in low unoptimized 290s and has no set bonus of any kind. I'm also using the hot on med-shot tactical as it's the only one I have.

 

Kre'a, you'll want to take notice at the start when I'm opened on by an Assassin. I rocket out immediately and root the assassin. I then break line of sight as quickly as possible to avoid any further cc. Textbook execution, amirite? Maybe we could put the l2p talk to bed on this one. I am aware there are SOME things you can do, but I'm still maintaining the opener is way too lethal. I have offered some suggestions on changes but so far very there has been little acknowledgement or discussion on that. Anyways, I appreciated your well thought out post and find posts like it are way more interesting to discuss. We can, of course, agree to disagree at the end of the day, but the conversation is worth having since 6.0 is the start of a whole new meta.

 

Ok so I looked at your video and it appears that you literally did what I said was the counter play. You spam rocket out after his spike and his discharge, you go flying back and you can even see the moment he uses electrocute and you resist it from Rocket out.

 

From that point onward, you Rocket Out again further into their team and are now being attacked by not just the Assassin, but more players on the enemy team.

 

____________________

 

So in this example, the sin opens, you Rocket out and resist his 2nd hard stun, and you do NOT take a boat load of damage from the Sin only. You've shown video evidence that there is counterplay to the opener, where you don't take a bucket load of damage because you use a DCD to escape the 2nd hard stun (electrocute). So what is the issue here?

 

The alternative is that you choose to do nothing, sit through the incoming Electrocute instead of using a DCD, and then taking a boat load of damage *as you should* because you chose not to use a DCD. This was a situation gone correctly, and this situation can be replicated 100% of the time. I guess I'm confused what you want nerfed then?

Edited November 2, 2019 by Jinre_the_Jedi