Can We Please Stop

[Monumenta]

for the 4 people playing... take your fan boi glasses off and read...

 

You obviously need to take your hate-boy know-it-all glasses off your extreme anti- bias is showing and making you sound silly and all your points moot. You could very well have a point in there somewhere but you dont make a case anyone would listen to.

[Rion_Starkiller]

🍿🍿🍿 http://gph.is/16COpZI Edited September 26, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[casirabit]

That’s why the newest expac of the retail version of WoW has become a ghost town since WoW classic was released. Everyone is playing classic instead of retail WoW. It’s even brought back more players who haven’t played WoW for many years.

 

Going to comment on one thing here, No Trixxie not everyone playing Wow is playing Classic. The guild I am in on retail is not and neither am I and my friends. Some people yes are playing classic but not everyone. That is not true.

[casirabit]

[TrixxieTriss]

Going to comment on one thing here, No Trixxie not everyone playing Wow is playing Classic. The guild I am in on retail is not and neither am I and my friends. Some people yes are playing classic but not everyone. That is not true.

 

Sorry, slight exaggeration on my part. But you can’t deny there are huge numbers of people playing classic vs retail.

[ZionHalcyon]

Holy crap what kind of crazy thread is this?

 

Its like both sides of the argument have decided to abandon all sense of rationality and have themselves an emotional cry session at each other that just looks like a hot mess...

Edited September 26, 2019 by ZionHalcyon

[Damask_Rose]

GSF is the perfect example on why batting around ideas is bad. We got GSF becuase of the community it flopped and Bioware had to keep putting resources into it over the years for the 4 people playing.

 

Well take your fan boi glasses off and read. The ideas weren't about if I think they were popular. Its about if they worked and had people engage with it or not.

 

Next you're going to say "oh you cant tell if GSF was failure impossible to have data on that."

 

No, I'm going to say that the GSF we got was not the off-rails missions people had asked for. Not only was it pvp instead of pve, it had many design flaws which never got addressed. We have no way of knowing whether it would have been more popular had it been what people asked for and if it had been implemented better. (Over the years that GSF has been out it has received next to nothing in the way of ongoing resources.)

 

But you are right. We don't have the data to determine if GSF was a failure or not because we don't know how many resources were spent on it and we don't know what the expectations Bioware had for it were. A space shooter like GSF isn't necessarily labor and resource intensive, so it is quite possible that the small, dedicated GSF players are enough of an audience to meet expectations. There is a lot of room between wildly popular and a failure.

 

The ideas that you mentioned couldn't have been about if they were popular or not or if they engaged people or not because they are merely ideas that have never made it into the game.

[TrixxieTriss]

If you want an example of an outlandish idea that flopped I point to GSF.

 

I know it’s not even close to possible to do something like this in swtor, but I think many of us wanted GSF to feel like this. So maybe GSF was set to fail before it was even implemented.

“Infinity : Battlescope”

 

But there was a precedence for a good SW flight sim game. It’s called the “Xwing vs Tie Fighter” series and the first game called “X-wing” was released in 1993. So its not like they had to reinvent the wheel or that modern hardware or a modern game engine couldn’t have dealt with 1993-2000 ship type modelling or flight systems. I’m sure they could have approached Lucas Arts to gain some sort of access to these games to develop GSF. I mean, if GOG can get permissions to update the graphics and game play of the original game, you would think a partner in the SW Lucas Arts branding could have received what was needed to make GSF successful.

 

Here is an extraordinarily long stream of the first 1-5 PvE missions on the remastered GOG addition (there is a player graphics updated one that’s better).

Also let’s not forget that there was a built in pvp factor in these games that let you play proper space combat.

The first person views in this video also doesn’t show you that you could also play in a third party view and switch back and forth, making the whole thing visually immersive and Star Wars movie type feeling.

Lastly, the controls are on a joystick and even the most primitive ones back then could have most of the controls mapped to buttons on it. Modern joysticks are less expensive than most cheap gaming mice and have plenty of buttons to map all the controls to them. I know, I’ve got the game and still play it.

I also realise that not everyone likes joysticks or would want to buy one for this game, but all it would take is mapping the x:y: settings to mouse / keyboard and button combos to make that work. Even a game pad can be roughly setup on this old X-wing game.

 

I guess what I’m saying is Bioware didn’t just miss the boat, the boat was never there and they dived into shark infested waters full of blood and seal sent hanging off them and no shark cage.

When GSF was first announced, many of us had friends who didn’t play swtor, but were willing to come play it if GSF had an Xwing feel to it with a joystick. I was giddy as a school girl in anticipation until GSF was actually released. As soon as I knew it didn’t have joystick support, I completely lost interest and I only played it a week before giving up on it for good.

What a massive waste of an opportunity by Bioware to bring in new players and introduce them to the rest of the swtor experience. All that money and time wasted making GSF for little to no benefit to the game, especially when the blue print was already there on how to make it successful.

 

To this day, a 20+ year old Star Wars space sim series is still the best available and even though its old and the graphics dated, the SW feeling and playability is still there. It’s still one of my favourite SW games of all time and certainly the best SW Star Fighter experience available.

If you have never played it, suggest you do. It’s fun and has had a revival since it was re-released in 2015?

Edited September 27, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Holy crap what kind of crazy thread is this?

 

Its like both sides of the argument have decided to abandon all sense of rationality and have themselves an emotional cry session at each other that just looks like a hot mess...

 

Emotionally charged fans are always like this when they can’t agree what’s best for their beloved game or movie IP. You only need to look at the SW fan base in general to see polarising viewers on the new movies.

 

Star Wars is close to all our hearts. I grew up with each movie release from 1977 onwards. I’m what you’d call a Star Wars die hard (I do COS play too and have a great Storm Trooper outfit).

 

So when we (I) see the only Star Wars MMO being mistreated (IMO), we (I) get highly charged and a bit over the top sometimes. I’m passionate about this game and want it to succeed more than my critical posts probably portray.

I wouldn’t be near as passionate, angry or critical about them or the game if I didn’t really care for the game to succeed.

When they do something right I’m always the first to praise them. Unfortunately that’s too rare these days and most of my posts come across as a bit whiny or negative. But it’s born from frustration at being continuously disappointed in how they keep making a once fun and enjoyable game more of a grind, more of a second job, leaching the fun out of the game and changing or breaking systems that didn’t need fixing to start with. It’s not that they don’t try to make a good game, it’s that they don’t learn from past mistakes and keep making the same ones again and again. They continuously take one step forward with a good idea and take two or three steps backwards with the rest of the game or the actual good idea.

As someone else pointed out the other week. It’s like “Ground Hog Day” development syndrome.

 

As far as I can tell from all the feed back on the PTS and forums posts about RNG, nobody wants or enjoys it, except “Oleg”. He is the 0.01% minority they seem to be accommodating.

If players hate excessive grind, hate RNG and they prove this by leaving the game on-mass over the last 3 years, why on God’s earth would you double down with it in a new expansion. Especially when the “PTS” testers and some of their “influencers” are nearly screaming at them to remove it. What’s the point in player feed back if you won’t listen to it.

Edited September 27, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[DarkSaberMaster]

I had to log in to reply to this thread. To the OP. I don't know where you got your information from. But regarding your statement about a PvE open world GSF would be a failure? You are so far out of touch with that ridiculous statement. I've been here since they first announced SWTOR being in development. The number one request till this day was to have an open world PvE space component like what was in SWG and X-wing vs Tie. During beta and when the game launched, it was the biggest disappointment that was constantly mentioned on the forums. Hell. It is one of the few things this community ever agreed on as a whole.

 

When they finally made their somewhat open flight game, it was a pvp game. That sent the forums into an even bigger blaze.

 

So no. You are wrong. If you had been here since beta or even when the game released, you would have known this and not made such a ridiculously stupid and outlandish comment. The rest of your posts are just lolworthy and not worthy of a response. But your GSF comment? Just wow.

[Transcendent]

GSF is the perfect example on why batting around ideas is bad.

 

Personally I like the concept of GSF, however I found the implementation to lack one key feature for me as a player. No in-game option to use a controller and to map the controls on a controller of choice (be that gamepad / joystick).

 

If it had that at launch, I'd play it more than I dipped into it. For me it would have felt more intuitive for that type of gameplay. I do recall that was going to be looked into, however nothing ever came of it.

 

Still a great concept. Still not complaining about that update, we also gained strongholds and Makeb etc during the whole of that 2.0 era.

[casirabit]

GSF was not a bad idea just they implemented it wrong. My boyfriend loved space on SWG but the way they did GSF he hated and he really never played it. If they would have implement like SWG it might have gone over better. I know quite a few of my guild would have tried it if it was like that but they way they did and made it only pvp was not what they were looking for.

[Rion_Starkiller]

GSF was not a bad idea just they implemented it wrong. My boyfriend loved space on SWG but the way they did GSF he hated and he really never played it. If they would have implement like SWG it might have gone over better. I know quite a few of my guild would have tried it if it was like that but they way they did and made it only pvp was not what they were looking for.

 

I agree that GSF wasn't a bad idea, but in hindsight, did the game need rando spaceships when it barely had any end game content?

Edited September 28, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[casirabit]

I agree that GSF wasn't a bad idea, but in hindsight, did the game need rando spaceships when it barely had any end game content?

 

Basing it from my guild, if it had been implemented like SWG (Jump to Lightspeed) they would have loved it. I can only speak for them and myself and the fact we don't do many operations as they take a lot of time (or they did back then) and I know for me I can be interrupted (by an invalid mom) and so it can take us longer as they are very understanding about that, not most are.

[JediQuaker]

Seven pages and 63 (now 64) replies. I guess the answer is no - we can't stop. 🙄

[Tsillah]

I agree that GSF wasn't a bad idea, but in hindsight, did the game need rando spaceships when it barely had any end game content?

Well it was much requested back then and there are different ways of going about endgame. I think they tried to broaden the spectrum of what was in the game.

 

Also the notion that the game barely had any game content is too easy. GSF was released not long after they had released Oricon with DF and DP Operations but the main problem with it was how it was implemented. I actually played it quite a bit at first but there was little variation in the few maps there were and are. The ships were never balanced properly, especially the bomber and the GUI for GSF is also not exactly great.

 

That aside, people also wanted to have pve missions where you could get into your starfighter or in co-op and I think that would've been better if they had done that. In fact a lot of the requests that lead to GSF was because people sorta liked the idea of the space missions except that they were on rails and they wanted to go off-rails. Those people didn't necessarily want pvp maps however.

 

I think that is part of the larger BW issue where they take feedback and put it together and instead of getting the best of various worlds we end up with a one-size-fits-nobody solution. I think Ossus was a big step in the right direction again, though they shouldn't have given out better gear there than ops drop but that's another topic. They realised that mistake themselves by now.

 

All in all, there was definitely a need for a broader activity range, it just never met the needs of players and they implemented it in a way that didn't appeal to many people and never got the support consequently that it needed to become a solid part of the game.

[Ardrossan]

I think this hate on GSF is a bit undeserved. It has a very bad reputation on this forum, and as a result I didn't play it much aside from very briefly when it was first introduced. But during 2xp there was a week where getting the weekly was a conquest objective, and I decided to do it on one char, and it was pretty good. Not great, not omg this is amazing, but good enough for the daily/weekly to go into my rotation along with the daily / weekly for pvp and FPs. And surprisingly, on SS, GSF pops more often than pvp does.

 

I encourage people to try a few [i.e more than once four years ago] before deciding they hate it or think it's mediocre garbage. It takes awhile to get used to, but so does every group activity in this game.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Ardrossan