There should be some kind of penalization for people consistently dropping out of Que

[JediQuaker]

You do realize that you have an ability to break aggro right? Personally I am always keeping an eye on group health and hitting koltos, but kind of a pain in the *** when I am a guardian.

In a veteran FP no one really needs to worry about breaking agro. I've often seen Tanks (and other melee) not using koltos because they don't want to break agro or drag the boss around. (I'm not sure if every class has a skill to break agro.)

 

A note about koltos - as I've oft repeated.

Koltos work best for the person who uses them. The user gets an immediate large health boost and then, subsequently, the user and the rest of the group get some extra healing over time.

Therefore, it's best if you let the person who needs the kolto use it themselves. Don't go using the koltos to heal the rest of the group**. Too many times I've died because someone else, in an attempt to be helpful, has used the kolto before I can get to it.

 

** Unless someone who is very low on health appears to be unaware of it and/or not going to use the kolto themselves.

Edited July 23, 2019 by JediQuaker

[Phazonfreak]

Very fascinating thread development for an elitist like me, I must say.

 

It started out with the OP's desire to penalize queue quitters, because he thinks they act elitist. We had quite a good run I'd say for half the distance with a fruitful discussion about the pros and cons and the mechanical problems. Then through the ever charming contribution of the Jedi Quaker it suddenly turned into simply firing full broadsides at the quitters as bad players, disclosing their very own elitism in the process.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[JediQuaker]

Then through the ever charming contribution of the Jedi Quaker it suddenly turned into simply firing full broadsides at the quitters as bad players, disclosing their very own elitism in the process.

The ever charming Quaker is ... ever charming.

Since the ever charming Quaker never drops out of an FP, unless everyone else does - and even then, not always** - I wouldn't say he's an elitist.

In fact, in spite of your misguided attempt to disparage me, the point of my posts is to suggest to the readers of the thread - not just the posters - that veteran FPs are not as difficult as some people seem to think they are and they shouldn't Decline an FP simply because there are people less than level 70 in it. Also, of course, it is a PUG and you should be willing to accept the fact that some people joining the GF will be in-experienced.

I would love to see your reaction if you should ever make a lowbie alt and people keep Declining groups, or quitting groups, or vote-kicking you out of a group simply because you are low level.

 

** See my "Tale of two Flashpoints" thread.

[AscendingSky]

I think an easier solution to the whole "people repeatedly declining a FP queue because they don't like the group composition" issue would be to give players more options to customize their queuing experience.

 

Consider if players had toggles for "only join balanced groups" or "only join max level groups" on the Veteran Flashpoints section of the Group Finder. Then players who only want balanced/max level groups for pug Vet FPs would only get pops for balanced/max level groups (at the cost of longer queue times, but since said players decline pops that don't meet with their preferences anyways it all balances out), and other players wouldn't have to deal with the frustration of waiting an hour or more for the queue to pop, only to see the pop go away because someone declined and they have to go back to waiting. Everyone wins!

 

I believe asking devs to add options for players rather than punishments would be far more beneficial in the long run. Punishments would make people less likely to queue; options would encourage queuing because everyone would be more likely to find a group that fits their preferences.

Edited July 23, 2019 by AscendingSky

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Please tell us your character's name(s) so we can add you to our ignore list.

 

Exactly man, that is why I think they should provide the name of the person cancelling the que, then the other group members can choose to ignore them. But people like the poster you quoted don't have enough character to actually put their names out.

Edited July 23, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I think an easier solution to the whole "people repeatedly declining a FP queue because they don't like the group composition" issue would be to give players more options to customize their queuing experience.

 

Consider if players had toggles for "only join balanced groups" or "only join max level groups" on the Veteran Flashpoints section of the Group Finder. Then players who only want balanced/max level groups for pug Vet FPs would only get pops for balanced/max level groups (at the cost of longer queue times, but since said players decline pops that don't meet with their preferences anyways it all balances out), and other players wouldn't have to deal with the frustration of waiting an hour or more for the queue to pop, only to see the pop go away because someone declined and they have to go back to waiting. Everyone wins!

 

I believe asking devs to add options for players rather than punishments would be far more beneficial in the long run. Punishments would make people less likely to queue; options would encourage queuing because everyone would be more likely to find a group that fits their preferences.

 

This is actually a good idea. But I still think at the least, they should leave it in the players hands to have the choice to ignore the players who continually drop out.

[Rolodome]

that veteran FPs are not as difficult as some people seem to think they are and they shouldn't Decline an FP simply because there are people less than level 70 in it

Or maybe people know what their limits are? To me, most veteran FPs are not "difficult," exactly, but they can be extremely time-consuming if done poorly as I explained in my main post in this thread. Besides which, if they were difficult, it's ironic that people who don't take the queue are being accused of being elitist, when it is, itself, elitist to imply that people who aren't taking the queue just aren't good enough and don't understand how easy the flashpoints are. Maybe some of these people simply know that they aren't very skilled and they aren't going to be able to carry a group of lowbies who may be all or mostly new/newish players.

 

And as it is, there is no way to tell whether you're dealing with a new player, a skilled player on an alt, etc. Some of that is just the nature of pugs, but my point is, turning it as a degrading accusation on players makes little sense.

[Phazonfreak]

The ever charming Quaker is ... ever charming.

Since the ever charming Quaker never drops out of an FP, unless everyone else does - and even then, not always** - I wouldn't say he's an elitist.

In fact, in spite of your misguided attempt to disparage me, the point of my posts is to suggest to the readers of the thread - not just the posters - that veteran FPs are not as difficult as some people seem to think they are and they shouldn't Decline an FP simply because there are people less than level 70 in it. Also, of course, it is a PUG and you should be willing to accept the fact that some people joining the GF will be in-experienced.

I would love to see your reaction if you should ever make a lowbie alt and people keep Declining groups, or quitting groups, or vote-kicking you out of a group simply because you are low level.

 

** See my "Tale of two Flashpoints" thread.

 

I did not start with the disparaging here:

 

I'm not sure if I agree about there being a penalty, but I can say that I find it "interesting" how many players out there have some sort of strange ideas about the difficulty of Vet FPs and what it takes to do them. I'm thinking that in some cases, people refuse the group because it's not that they don't think the "lowbies" can handle it, it's that they think the lowbies can't make up for their own lack of skill.

 

I just responded in kind.

And yes, I've seen your other thread. I've also seen your thread a couple of weeks ago where you told the story about the healer that quit your group, because after he asked to let him do the healing duty on the Kolto stations you told him he is expendable.

 

I have no qualms with players who are annoyed when someone quits before or during the fp run. I myself had this happen to me since I have been playing the game and there are certainly options to lighten the situation. But to claim people should just stick with the group no matter what, even though they might have very valid reasons not to, or in the case of the OP even demanding a penalty for them, reeks of elitism.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[lightSaberAddiCt]

IThe more level 70s you have, the less likely someone is going to hold things up in this way. And some flashpoints are just brutal if you don't skip.

 

That right there was the funniest thing out of the whole wall of text. There have been plenty of times when the vaunted 70 held up things more then anyone else? Why? Because they level up during 2xp events, never learn their class and fumble around like a virgin on prom night.

 

70 doesn't equal seasoned player

>70 does not mean inexperienced player

[MorseGod]

I hold things up all the time, and all my toons are level 70. I have very poor vision and tend to run straight through aggro because I can't always see what's right in front of me.

 

Not knowing all the dodgy routes isn't a level thing.

[Rolodome]

That right there was the funniest thing out of the whole wall of text. There have been plenty of times when the vaunted 70 held up things more then anyone else? Why? Because they level up during 2xp events, never learn their class and fumble around like a virgin on prom night.

 

70 doesn't equal seasoned player

>70 does not mean inexperienced player

I don't see what's funny about it. Likelihood is likelihood. Exceptions to the rule don't refute likelihood. That's why you say likely and not always.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Besides which, if they were difficult, it's ironic that people who don't take the queue are being accused of being elitist, when it is, itself, elitist to imply that people who aren't taking the queue just aren't good enough and don't understand how easy the flashpoints are.

 

Man you just can't help but try to misrepresent other peoples statements, or straight up try to justify some stupid idea that lower level people don't know a FP that a 70 does? You have done this over and over through this thread and they thread you started after feeling "threatened" by this one or the other thread about FPs. You also try to label people as elitist's who are the ones Xing into que rather then the ones dropping out because of their own selfish idea that they shouldn't be in a group with a lower level player.

 

You seriously have an oxymoronic reply going here.

[Rolodome]

Man you just can't help but try to misrepresent other peoples statements, or straight up try to justify some stupid idea that lower level people don't know a FP that a 70 does? You have done this over and over through this thread and they thread you started after feeling "threatened" by this one or the other thread about FPs. You also try to label people as elitist's who are the ones Xing into que rather then the ones dropping out because of their own selfish idea that they shouldn't be in a group with a lower level player.

 

You seriously have an oxymoronic reply going here.

Here is JediQuaker implying that people are avoiding it because of their own lack of skill:

I'm not sure if I agree about there being a penalty, but I can say that I find it "interesting" how many players out there have some sort of strange ideas about the difficulty of Vet FPs and what it takes to do them. I'm thinking that in some cases, people refuse the group because it's not that they don't think the "lowbies" can handle it, it's that they think the lowbies can't make up for their own lack of skill.

Edit: Actually, implying is an understatement. He's just straight up saying that's what he thinks is the case with some people.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Rolodome

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Here is JediQuaker implying that people are avoiding it because of their own lack of skill:

 

Edit: Actually, implying is an understatement. He's just straight up saying that's what he thinks is the case with some people.

 

And again you are cherry picking 1 post, let me copy the post he dropped right before:

The ever charming Quaker is ... ever charming.

Since the ever charming Quaker never drops out of an FP, unless everyone else does - and even then, not always** - I wouldn't say he's an elitist.

In fact, in spite of your misguided attempt to disparage me, the point of my posts is to suggest to the readers of the thread - not just the posters - that veteran FPs are not as difficult as some people seem to think they are and they shouldn't Decline an FP simply because there are people less than level 70 in it. Also, of course, it is a PUG and you should be willing to accept the fact that some people joining the GF will be in-experienced.

I would love to see your reaction if you should ever make a lowbie alt and people keep Declining groups, or quitting groups, or vote-kicking you out of a group simply because you are low level.

 

So basically saying that people shouldn't pop out of X que before even finding out which FP they are getting. As for his elitist comment, I get where he is coming from a certain perspective, started by you and another poster, calling people elitist because they stay in que and X up without dropping out of the group Que before even seeing which FP. No one that originally sees this issue as a problem brought up the word elitist, certain replies did.

 

That is the problem with these forums, people can clip out 1 sentence or 1 paragraph without associating it to previous posts, then play the victim card. But instead of arguing the issue on merit, your response was to make a completely different thread about dumbing down vet FPs (which are already dumbed down), trying to reflect it all on the fact that those crappy players under 70 bring everyone down, which is complete BS.

 

Is their some lower level players that do? Absolutely, Is there level 70 players that do....ABSOLUTELY!

 

But if people are going to screw with 3 other peoples time by dropping Que because they are like level 25, with no knowledge of the experience they have, then at least I think the other group members should be notified as to who it was, so they can choose to ignore them. Then the level 70 will never have to worry about grouping with those dirty lowbies again. So it is a win/win situation.

Edited July 24, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

[kirorx]

As a tank. If i see another tank, i will usually not accept the que. two tanks is too many tanks

[Phazonfreak]

You really don't have good reading comprehension do you? You might want to actually read the post before misrepresenting it. The issue is about dropping when the X in pops, not staying through a whole bad FP. Either grow up, or actually read a post, understand the post, before commenting on it and misrepresenting it.

 

I wrote "before or during a fp run", before including the situation that someone keeps canceling a queue pop. I understand that you are arguing the very beginning of a group finder pop. Regardless of when someone quits the group, I am not in favor of more penalization. There have been other good ideas floating around in this thread though.

 

And I would really like you to point out ANYWHERE in my post where I called ANYONE elitest. Self entitled, yes, selfish yes. But I never said elitist, But who knows, maybe English isn't your first language.

 

English is indeed not my first language, but I do think I can at least read it fine. There you go:

 

And if your waiting for a "balanced group" for a Veteran FP, maybe the issue is you. Considering you can do them with all DPS, or 2 dps and their companions. This is not a skill FP. I can understand dropping for a level 15, but 25 and up and you have the bulk of your abilities and it is just you being an elitest ***.

 

I would also claim that in your very first post

There really needs to be some kind of penalization for people that drop que 2-3 times as they pop because it is not the group the feel they deserve.

is a good example of calling people elitist without actually using the word, which you did later.

 

These personal attacks on my level of maturity or language skills don't do you any favor if you can't remember the insults you are throwing around here simply for not agreeing with you.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I I would also claim that in your very first post is a good example of calling people elitist without actually using the word, which you did later.

.

 

So yeah, the people staying in group in the GF are the elitist ones, and the people dropping because they are not all 70s isn't elitist ones. That is a pretty oxymoronic statement.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

As a tank. If i see another tank, i will usually not accept the que. two tanks is too many tanks

 

Yeah but that is a totally reasonable (albeit rare) issue. This is about people that are 70, when they see that most of the group is 20s, 30s etc, and they drop the group finder pop.

[Phazonfreak]

So yeah, the people staying in group in the GF are the elitist ones, and the people dropping because they are not all 70s isn't elitist ones. That is a pretty oxymoronic statement.

 

No one in this thread, including myself, accused the players that find queue quitters annoying and want to stay in an unbalanced group of anything or wanted to penalize them in any way. We just provided reasons for why we might immediately cancel a queue pop or leave a flashpoint group and why your suggestion to penalize quitters apart from the lockout timer during a flashpoint is a bad idea.

 

It was you and JediQuaker who started this entire "quitters just lack skill and have to be carried by guys like us" boasting, which we called out as exactly the kind of elitist thinking that you attributed to the lvl70 players who cancel a queue pop. By the way, I did not miss the fact that you left out the proof I provided that you called us elitist.

 

Let us just get back to the relevance of your thread and the arguments for how BioWare could potentially address the issue of queue pops and group composition.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[lightSaberAddiCt]

No one in this thread, including myself, accused the players that find queue quitters annoying and want to stay in an unbalanced group of anything or wanted to penalize them in any way. We just provided reasons for why we might immediately cancel a queue pop or leave a flashpoint group and why your suggestion to penalize quitters apart from the lockout timer during a flashpoint is a bad idea.

 

It was you and JediQuaker who started this entire "quitters just lack skill and have to be carried by guys like us" boasting, which we called out as exactly the kind of elitist thinking that you attributed to the lvl70 players who cancel a queue pop. By the way, I did not miss the fact that you left out the proof I provided that you called us elitist.

 

Let us just get back to the relevance of your thread and the arguments for how BioWare could potentially address the issue of queue pops and group composition.

 

You seriously need to read posters posts before accusing them of saying things. I never said anything about a players skill, besides that a lot of lowbies aren't new players, they are players that know their class and are alts. The only thing that even remotely resembles me saying that, was when I though JediQuakers post was funny and made a comedic reply.

 

Furthermore, it is not about power levels since by 25 you already have the bulk of your abilities including procs. You are buffed up to level 70, and do the same damage. Not to mention, YOU STILL seem not to understand the original post to begin with. It had NOTHING to do with when they are in the FP, so they get the lockout, it was about when the GF popped, and everyone accepted the team to start the flashpoint. And if certain 70 characters want to immediately refuse, 3 and 4 times, then the other players should AT LEAST get to know who did it, so they can choose to add to ignore list.

 

Again, you are trying to misrepresent the entire thread by misdirecting people into thinking it is about when they are actually in the FP and it has not.

Edited July 24, 2019 by lightSaberAddiCt

[Phazonfreak]

You seriously need to read posters posts before accusing them of saying things. I never said anything about a players skill, besides that a lot of lowbies aren't new players, they are players that know their class and are alts.

 

I'm seriously at a loss at how you can simply ignore the things you say and act like you did not say them:

 

First reasonable post so far. If people wipe early, then I can accept it. But screw this elite BS of "Oh I am a 70 so I know what I am doing". Its called alts unless some people haven't heard of it. Most of those lowbies are alts of people that more then likely know more about the FP then the people stating otherwise in this post.

 

But I can promise you, alot of lowbies like myself, probably know that FP better then the 70s do

 

Not to mention, I have been in plenty of FPs with those hated F2Prs, and they generally do fine. It is the idiots 70s, that probably leveled during 2xp month and suck at their class. This issue isn't about people going to the FP and quitting, it is for the que list popping and everyone has to X in.

 

You were constantly going on and on about how low level alts know better than the idiot, elitist lvl 70s. It's absolutely baffling to me that you now claim that you never said anything about a player's skill or that you never called people who cancel a queue pop elitist when the quotes are right here.

 

 

 

The only thing that even remotely resembles me saying th

at, was when I though JediQuakers post was funny and made a comedic reply.

 

the "comedic" reply being:

 

God yes I so agree.

 

 

 

Furthermore, it is not about power levels since by 25 you already have the bulk of your abilities including procs. You are buffed up to level 70, and do the same damage. Not to mention, YOU STILL seem not to understand the original post to begin with. It had NOTHING to do with when they are in the FP, so they get the lockout, it was about when the GF popped, and everyone accepted the team to start the flashpoint. And if certain 70 characters want to immediately refuse, 3 and 4 times, then the other players should AT LEAST get to know who did it, so they can choose to add to ignore list.

 

Again, you are trying to misrepresent the entire thread by misdirecting people into thinking it is about when they are actually in the FP and it has not.

 

I understood your initial complaint about players constantly canceling out of the queue pop when they see low level players in the queue list. I acknowledged that several times now, but if there is still any misunderstanding:

 

Yes I know what you mean and it can be very annoying. I agree with you in that regard, believe it or not.

 

The reason I brought up quitting groups after the group has been formed is that you don't know the randomly selected fp before you accept the queue pop. This is absolutely crucial for everything we are discussing here.

 

There are vet fps that are easier and some that are more challenging for an unbalanced group, which is one of the reasons for some people to constantly drop out of queue until they get a group composition they like. They don't know which fps they will get but they know about the 15 minute lockout timer if you quit after the group has been formed. So penalizing at the stage of the queue pop or even just to pillory the players that have rejected the queue pops would be very detrimental to the group finder and make the issue even more pronounced.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Phazonfreak

[Darev]

Exactly man, that is why I think they should provide the name of the person cancelling the que, then the other group members can choose to ignore them. But people like the poster you quoted don't have enough character to actually put their names out.

 

Seriously?

 

Wow.

 

Well, I have approx 140 toons on Star Forge, so that's not going to work for anyone.

If they ever implement an "ignore" via legacy name, feel free to add mine.

Darev

Darevsool

 

It'd be kind of a waste though. I think I queue for flashpoints once every 6 months or so.

 

it doesn't change the fact that I don't like doing GF PUGs with lowbie toons, for some of the aforementioned reasons.

 

 

Someone also mentioned the fact that the kolto stations are most useful for the person tagging them.

I wish more people knew that. If you let the lowest health person get the station it's so much more helpful than one dedicated person doing it, which is what I see being done when I queue. (when I actually see them being used. i think most PUG players expect "someone" else to do it w/o any coordination at all)

 

I'd also queue more often if there was a toggle to only accept "balanced" groups (2x dps / tank / heals).

Edited July 25, 2019 by Darev

[Visorknight]

I think we need a Q for vet fp for solely level 70 players only. many of us are there to quickly finish the vet fp weekly for conquest within 15 mins per run. While boosting low level players are present, they dont have level 70 gear/top tier augments or full skills to speed through each vet fp efficiently. This will prevent players from dropping as well. Also if the Q can match people to roughly the same item level will be great as well! Edited July 25, 2019 by Visorknight

[Padabiene]

I think we need a Q for vet fp for solely level 70 players only. many of us are there to quickly finish the vet fp weekly for conquest within 15 mins per run. While boosting low level players are present, they dont have level 70 gear/top tier augments or full skills to speed through each vet fp efficiently. This will prevent players from dropping as well. Also if the Q can match people to roughly the same item level will be great as well!

 

And while we're at it people have to provide a recent parse of the class they're playing before they're allowed to queue for Vet? No achievements, no admittance?

[theriomorphic]

A lot of 70s needing carries in this thread I see. I can basically solo the vet fps without heals on any 230+ ilvl. Why would I need a bunch of 70s with me? I'll gladly queue with anyone of any level as long as they are patient enough to let me heal after each pull.

 

Simple solution is to hide the levels of the players in the queue pop. Then the cowards can choose to leave group once inside and take their 15 minute lockout.

Edited July 25, 2019 by theriomorphic