gintheripper Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Hi I'd like to start off by saying thanks to the swtor staff and community for their great representation of lgbt characters and choices however speaking as a trans person I am still holding out hoping for the inclusion of a character even a non romanceable one that more directly represents myself and other individuals like me I know it is a bit of a longshot but still I remain forever in hope as I am a huge star war fan and especially a fan of swtor please share your two cents:o:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddydogputin Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Lucas said there aren't any LGBT character in Star Wars. In essence, what little LGBT representation Bioware did put was perhaps a violation of Lucas's orginal vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 My main concern here is doing it well, when representing any given minority you need to treat a character like that with respect but at the same time be careful not to have that character's personality be only his identity, etc. Otherwise you risk making a caricature which does not serve the purpose of representation in my opinion. That being said I think with characters like Krem from DAI Bioware certainly learned how to represent transgenders better than they did in the past so I wouldn't rule it out. Lucas said there aren't any LGBT character in Star Wars. In essence, what little LGBT representation Bioware did put was perhaps a violation of Lucas's orginal vision. There had been a few gay characters within the novels during the Lucas era, plus Lucas isn't in charge anymore and while I do think we should respect the man's vision I don't see how adding LGBT characters to Star Wars would be a violation of that. post vanilla SWTOR is still very Star Wars and it has LGBT characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AhsokaTanorules Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Anyone ever read Star of The Guardians franchise by Margaret Weiss? They did have a race called the Adonians who were said to change genders just as often as we would change our underwears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Anyone ever read Star of The Guardians franchise by Margaret Weiss? They did have a race called the Adonians who were said to change genders just as often as we would change our underwears. Nope, quite an interesting species. Something similar happens to Argonians in The Elder Scrolls saga, they're able to change their gender through a ritual with the Hist Trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mubrak Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) And the original canon Hutts were hermaphrodites usually identifying as one gender, some of them being attracted to humanoids of the "opposite" sex As for the OP, IMO the problem is in representation here, sexual orientation is one thing, if there are gay/bi NPCs that aren't just player-sexual, I can't remember them, so they're pretty well done, because how would you know if they aren't having a parade celebrating stereotypes? How would you represent gender, though? Medicine should be advanced enough so reassignment surgery should be perfect and only a matter of being able to afford it, so we are really only talking about those embracing their non-binarity, which again isn't really something you would know outside of a relation. That guy dating a tentacle-headed alien should be beyond caring about the naughty bits of their androgynous looking neighbor. Same for the "humanity first" dork. you're human, that means you're his friend in this galaxy of freaks. There are no gender-roles to challenge either, nobody raises an eyebrow at a burly female in combat armor. Bearded guy(?) wearing a ball gown? Meet my mate the giant slug and her husband the green bunny rabbit. In the end it depends on whether you want to see western society's transgender issues mirrored in the game universe, or whether you want to see them demonstrated as non-issues, because diversity is the golden theme here. Edited June 24, 2019 by Mubrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I dunno, I think transgen is a bit too much for Star Wars. I am fine with the lesbian/gay stuff in the game which was mainly added cause its a Bioware game and they had this in previous games, but this would be a bit too much and also hard to implement since its sci-fi and as it was said medicine in this universe is on a much higher level. Lets just stick with Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 if there are gay/bi NPCs that aren't just player-sexual, I can't remember them, Lemda Avesta (Pubside Makeb) and Lord Cytharat (Impside Makeb) are the only ones, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Lemda Avesta (Pubside Makeb) and Lord Cytharat (Impside Makeb) are the only ones, I believe. Arguably Kaliyo as well (bi in this case) As others have noted, I would not support this on the grounds it would just turn into virtue signalling/importing contentious social issues. I get enough of that in RL, I don't want it in SW too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceryxp Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Lemda Avesta (Pubside Makeb) and Lord Cytharat (Impside Makeb) are the only ones, I believe. During the pub side Oricon story we hear about a trooper who keeps having visions of killing his husband. During Fallen Empire, we get a letter from a Knight, if we spare them, where he thanks us for letting him go home to his husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Arguably Kaliyo as well (bi in this case) I'm not going to get into this (I've previously discussed my take on this on multiple occasions and *at*length*), except to note that what I meant was the ability to have a proper romance that's at least kind of accepted. If you're a female non-Agent, Kaliyo fairly firmly (but politely, on a "politely for Kaliyo" scale) turns you down, whereas Lemda (and, I guess, Cytharat) accepts it, even if she's at best luke-warm about it and it goes nowhere afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 During the pub side Oricon story we hear about a trooper who keeps having visions of killing his husband. During Fallen Empire, we get a letter from a Knight, if we spare them, where he thanks us for letting him go home to his husband. True, I forgot about them, but I was thinking of the NPCs the player can [Flirt] with rather than reported NPC-NPC romances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mubrak Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) During the pub side Oricon story we hear about a trooper who keeps having visions of killing his husband. During Fallen Empire, we get a letter from a Knight, if we spare them, where he thanks us for letting him go home to his husband. Right. I remember the knight's letter now, yes. This is what I meant. it's done subtle - someone thanked me for letting them go back to their spouse, someone else had visions of killing their spouse. The spouse's gender is just a side note in that context. The game doesn't try to emphasize how progressive it is by making a big deal out of it. This is why I wonder how you would represent much more personal gender issues the same way. Edited June 25, 2019 by Mubrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimasterjac Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Right. I remember the knight's letter now, yes. This is what I meant. it's done subtle - someone thanked me for letting them go back to their spouse, someone else had visions of killing their spouse. The spouse's gender is just a side note in that context. The game doesn't try to emphasize how progressive it is by making a big deal out of it. This is why I wonder how you would represent much more personal gender issues the same way. I think it's difficult to represent in a tasteful manner; I'm not-so-concerned about "emphasizing" how progressive the game is, per se (Online idiots will always rage about this sort of stuff being "Shoved down throats"), but one's gender and journey through transition is both deeply personal and complicated. Reflecting that in a game where most conversation's aren't deep or personal just seems like navigating a minefield, as much as I would love to see more positive representation of trans people in media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KumbayaGOD Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 i support this, i awlays want to have my fat bald gunslinger in sensous dress outfit , please make it happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syroe Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I think there's quite enough Trans representation in SWtoR. Why, with the way conquest works I can get up 20 or more of those Charged Matter Trans...OH. I see what happened there. In all seriousness, if they want to introduce trans characters they're more than welcome to write them in. Just hope that it's tastefully done and well written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkdust Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 The existence of people on a gender spectrum should not be a "contentious issue" because, well, they exist and they even play SWTOR. If you can accept people being able to move starships with their minds and all the other fantastic stuff in Star Wars, and if you can accept that our understanding of the SW universe has changed since 1977, you should be able to accept relatively small changes like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Hi I'd like to start off by saying thanks to the swtor staff and community for their great representation of lgbt characters and choices however speaking as a trans person I am still holding out hoping for the inclusion of a character even a non romanceable one that more directly represents myself and other individuals like me I know it is a bit of a longshot but still I remain forever in hope as I am a huge star war fan and especially a fan of swtor please share your two cents:o:o I think the easiest way of this would be if they allowed new toons to use either model at character creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mubrak Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) The existence of people on a gender spectrum should not be a "contentious issue" because, well, they exist and they even play SWTOR. If you can accept people being able to move starships with their minds and all the other fantastic stuff in Star Wars, and if you can accept that our understanding of the SW universe has changed since 1977, you should be able to accept relatively small changes like this. The problem is that the majority of the transgender issues originate from society's reaction to something that shouldn't exist according to their forefathers' holy book of choice. The star wars universe should be beyond that, especially since there are several species with multiple or even just a single gender. In-universe it should be a non-issue, so making it one doesn't really help the cause. Strive for it to become a non-issue in our society, what's the lesson from constructing a society that is thousands of years ahead, but still has a problem with it? It's pointless and will always be an issue? Are we sure Lana is actually 100% human female and was born as such? After the fade-to-black, why would our character comment on any "abnormities" when the existence of people on a gender spectrum is not an issue? Edited July 3, 2019 by Mubrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTricicolo Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Hutts are hermaphrodites. Granted, not the greatest representation of trans-sexuality, but technically they suffice. Scorpio and the Gemini offspring have a feminine chassis however it's only a structure to hold their cpu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 The existence of people on a gender spectrum should not be a "contentious issue" because, well, they exist and they even play SWTOR. If you can accept people being able to move starships with their minds and all the other fantastic stuff in Star Wars, and if you can accept that our understanding of the SW universe has changed since 1977, you should be able to accept relatively small changes like this. Frankly, whether you think it should be a contentious social issue is irrelevant. It IS a contentious social issue. Any attempt to insert such into the game for no other purpose than to advance a social agenda (whether right or wrong doesn't matter here) results in bad characters, due simply to misguided priorities. They become defined by what they are/what the identify as, and that is, frankly, insulting to those people. It is also rather difficult to introduce such characters to a game without being over the top about it due simply to technical limitations and the general tendency for characters to be a little over the top anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 Maybe it would be a better idea to leave all romance out of the game to not go into any controversial waters. Um. It's a teeny tiny bit late for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Im just here to enjoy these tears. Nothing quite as entertaining as obsessive whining and playing the victim. Please tell me more about how unfair the world is to you? Your rather rude, presumptuous and provocative responses are all the proof we need that including this is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Um. It's a teeny tiny bit late for that. Just a little... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telaan Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 As someone who has been against any kind of romance or identity scripts from the start (purely because of the inevitable butt hurt it causes regardless of position); I fail to see why this should be something included. What’s stopping you from role playing as transgender? How exactly do you see a NPC being incorporated as transgender? How is this important to the Star Wars story? Master Pat: “My name is Jedi Master Pat. I’m here on direct orders from the Jedi Council. You’re desperately needed to rescue a ship of Padawans which was intercepted by a Sith warship returning from selecting their kaiburr crystals. These Padawans are the future of our order.” You: “Yes, sir” Master Pat: “IT’S MA’AM!!!!!!” (Calm down its a joke)..... How about we demand that the devs focus on putting out a quality Star Wars story with balanced and functioning mechanics and leave the rest to RP and imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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