6.0 Play your way is a pipe dream

[Damask_Rose]

Because Elitist players DESERVE stuff that casuals don't. You put more effort into doing things, you deserve a greater reward.

 

That is beside the point. If some play modes get unique rewards, then it isn't "play your way", however much they may or may not deserve having unique rewards. Different discussion entirely. Your use of the word "Elitist" instead of Elite set the tone for your post nicely

 

(And greater usually means more, not better. We can be pretty sure ranked and NiM will have greater rewards, and apparently better as well.)

[MandFlurry]

This is a problem, i see why some people Think they deserve better/ more than so-called casuals. But if people think they're better than others, and they can get ego's that sometimes they need a physical butt kicking. I mean I think that so-called Elitist deserve more, but yet, at the same time being a better Key board Ninja never makes anyone better than another. I see both sides.

 

We should Never have to do content we don't like, just me, because i don't want people trying to tell me what to do. This IS a game, not the Game of Life, where people jocky for different positions in life, that use an education, whereas this game people need need so much education.

 

I personally hate 4x4 Ranked pvp, but i loved the 8v8 ranked. I also usually never do Huttball unless i'm on a major Dps dealer or a cloaker, because that's the Only way i can play Vandin, otherwise i'm not playing that map lol.

 

Why cant we all Have FUN here, and get Awesome loot, for christs sakes, life is too short to get mad about this stuff.

[KendraP]

As an FYI, I too have a 40+ hour work week, yet I find time to grind max gear on my favorite toons in 5.10. Whether that's because I'm dating a fellow gamer (that plays Overwatch, no SWTOR), or because I don't have children -- I don't know. But don't put YOUR problems on the SWTOR community, man.

 

All that said, the devs have clearly stated in the stream that gearing should be easier HORIZONTALLY versus the current vertical Ossus gear path. Please listen to the stream.

 

Listen. to. the. stream.

 

When people complain about non-issues, it waters down the real issues that players report to the devs. So please keep in mind: keep your mouth shut until you have something to say that's actually relevant and current to the discussion.

 

For me, refusing to gear grind 5.10/ossus/258 has absolutely nothing to do with how easy or difficult the grind is. As I've mentioned multiple times now, I could get an entire set at once in a command crate and I would refuse to use it. I think adding the 258 gear in the first place was stupid, and resent tying it behind ossus in a pathetically succesful attempt to get people to run ossus. Throw in the downright aggarvating fact that a perfectly reasonable gearing scheme already existed (and that it took 6 months to even begin to get it there in the first place (GC)), then the straw that broke this camels back was the fact I never got the lightsaber I earned by killing the Ossus WB in the first week before they fixed the bug.

 

Between it all they lost me. I'm stubborn.

 

My questions going forward are such that I will address it when I'm sitting at a computer, and after I see the blog. I do not see how they can implement, test, accept feedback, and act on all of this between now and September. The only conclusion I can think of is that listening to us is, in fact, a pipe dream, and they have already encroached upon the point of no return on whatever decisions they are making with 6.0.

 

All we can really do is wait and see

Edited June 1, 2019 by KendraP

[JattaGin]

I hope that provides some clarity and allows you to be excited about what we are doing with spoils of war!

 

I'm not sure. Do I understand correctly that there are items that are exclusively to one certain playing style, e. g. ranked PvP. You can get those items only from playing e. g. ranked PvP.

 

Except, you can also get those same items from conquest, from crates, from vendors?

 

I don't quite understand the exclusiveness in this scenario, but I'm not against this method.

 

People who work harder deserve more than those who do not, if you do not like that ideology then life is going to be a pain for you!!!!!!

 

Maybe so. But what does this have to do with Swtor? This is a game, not work.

 

EXACTLY

The way I read his post, "people who work 40 hours a week and are more sufficient at their job deserve the same amount of money that people who work 20 hours hours of week make" Its ludacris

 

Again, what does your workload have to do with Swtor?

 

Is your point that if you have a demanding 40 hours job, a game shouldn't punish you, if you don't have the time to grind for gear? Then, yes, agreed. But I feel that I am misinterpreting you.

 

People play video games to have fun.

 

Anyone who treats the game like a full time job and demands only people who do the same deserve the best equipment need their head examined.

 

One should think so. But apparently for some people, gaming is work (and I don't mean pro gamers, e.g. in e-sports, or gold farmers.)

 

As an FYI, I too have a 40+ hour work week, yet I find time to grind max gear on my favorite toons in 5.10. Whether that's because I'm dating a fellow gamer (that plays Overwatch, no SWTOR), or because I don't have children -- I don't know. But don't put YOUR problems on the SWTOR community, man.

 

OK, now I'm completely lost. What does this have to do with anything? And to whom did you reply in the first place?

 

Why cant we all Have FUN here, and get Awesome loot, for christs sakes, life is too short to get mad about this stuff.

 

My interpretation of this thread is that you are not allowed to have the same amount of fun if you don't work this game the same amount of hours as others do. There might also be a correlation between your amount of kids and the games your wife plays, but I admit that I am very confused about how this is all being calculated.

 

This thread is confusing. I think I just keep on playing my way, focussing on maximising my fun, and not caring about best gear. What happens, happens. Hope this is OK for everyone.

[juliushorst]

EXACTLY

The way I read his post, "people who work 40 hours a week and are more sufficient at their job deserve the same amount of money that people who work 20 hours hours of week make" Its ludacris

 

In an ideal situation result of the work should matter, not time put into it.

[Delani]

But whats the point of getting super rare items/gear if you only do pvp? Bolster is gonna be maxed out so whats the point of getting top gear if you only play pvp?

 

Tacticals are special abilities that adjust the way you play and has nothing to do with stats, im thinking that the tacticals that come from harder pvp content (ranked) are going to be very good for pvp and not pve and vice versa in regards to pve.

[Delani]

umm, first off: Did you just quote YOURSELF to QFE your own point...to yourself? lol wut the eff dude

 

Secondly: last i checked, SWTOR is a video game. Not a "job" and certainly not "life" .

 

p.s. I play & enjoy all content, including 'Ranked' .

 

I didnt quote my self and yes, SWTOR is a video game but psychological factors play into video games just like real life. If you want better things in real life, you have to work hard for them. Your not going to afford a big house or an expensive car unless you invest time into things. This ideology will work in video games as well. I dont see the problem with rewarding players who participate and work harder in "more difficult and time consuming content" recieving better rewards. lol

[Delani]

Where have you been for the last 3 years? 'Working harder' (ugh) hasn't amounted to jack other than having a better hand at RNG and chasing pointless treadmills to the point of mind numbing tedium. The lack of challenging ASND engaging content ran out the lot of people of who were actually serious. Ranked PvP is a sh**show and does NOT make anyone more hardcore than anyone else, you can literally grind away and suck but eventually receive your rewards. Hard Mode and NIM content guilds are fractured, dead, gone and the few that remain have been likely running the same content for over half a decade but with different numbers because gear. All they can do now is make it so that if we choose to pursue any sort of content, it remains engaging and allows us to branch off into something else without a completely gear-shock.

 

If I want to GSF all day for the first few months and then decide "Hmm, let me try my hand at some Hard Modes flashpoints or Ops, I got these tactical items and some gear worth a damn", that sounds fine to me. Now if it were people wanting the top gear in game for completing story crap and dailies for 6+ months *cough* Ossus *cough*, then I'd be turned off completely but let it roll out and let people voice their concerns. I don't need or want BiS, but I would like to play the game and not feel pigeon holed into certain content only.

 

What are you complaining about exactly? Musco said in his post everyone can still acquire the tacticals that harder content provides its just going to take longer. The algorithm they are providing in regards to getting better tacticals is fine.

[Delani]

People play video games to have fun.

 

Anyone who treats the game like a full time job and demands only people who do the same deserve the best equipment need their head examined.

 

Its a psychological reference, and btw people tend to act in patterns and will apply the same concepts from real life and implement it into whatever they are doing (including video games) regardless of the activity they do/are doing. What applies in real life and works in real life, will also work in video games. Why do people even want rare tacticals in the first place? Why are you upset that rare tacticals are obtainable by doing harder content? Finally, would the tacticals be rare if they were easy to acquire?

[Delani]

In an ideal situation result of the work should matter, not time put into it.

 

People who invest more time should be more suffiecient at whatever they do. (Not disagreeing)

[Delani]

That is beside the point. If some play modes get unique rewards, then it isn't "play your way", however much they may or may not deserve having unique rewards. Different discussion entirely. Your use of the word "Elitist" instead of Elite set the tone for your post nicely

 

(And greater usually means more, not better. We can be pretty sure ranked and NiM will have greater rewards, and apparently better as well.)

 

 

I hate to say it, better rewards gives people incentive to even partake in harder content. NiM and ranked have to provide better and more exclusive rewards or else there would be no point to do them. Sure, some people "want to challenge themselves" but not most. Most people want exclusive items (rare items) because psychologically people want to be better than others. Thats just the reality.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Delani

[Delani]

just going to point out an obvious (to me) point here.

 

 

MMORPGs by nature are time investment based. The more time and effort you put in, the more you get.

 

Action Games by nature give you every tool you will need then hinder your progress with puzzels, mazes and riddles.

 

ActionRPGs tend to take traits from both, RPG stats design (leveling, gear and buffs) while incorperating proper (puzzle) positioning in combat (LOS) puzzles in PvE and use non turn based combat.

 

That being said when it comes to instant gratifacation vs time investment, actionrpgs tend to lean to time Investment.

 

SWTOR is an ActionRPG

 

Finaly, my personal opinion? I do not think anything should be gated behind hard content. You do hard content to personaly challenge and push yourself. You dont do hard content for a gear edge.

 

personal opinion only.

 

 

 

People do harder content, work harder, and invest more time into things because of the reward/s. This is fact. No reward= no incentive. There is no point of even having a NiM mode operation if you will not reward players for doing it because most people would realize, the time and stress that goes into completing harder content would not be worth it. I understand its your opinion but people will not challenge nor push themselves for no reason lol.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Delani

[Delani]

People play video games to have fun.

 

Anyone who treats the game like a full time job and demands only people who do the same deserve the best equipment need their head examined.

 

People play video games for a lot of different reasons. If my analogy went over your head, im sorry. Ill try to dumb it down next time!!!

[Delani]

Where have you been for the last 3 years? 'Working harder' (ugh) hasn't amounted to jack other than having a better hand at RNG and chasing pointless treadmills to the point of mind numbing tedium. The lack of challenging ASND engaging content ran out the lot of people of who were actually serious. Ranked PvP is a sh**show and does NOT make anyone more hardcore than anyone else, you can literally grind away and suck but eventually receive your rewards. Hard Mode and NIM content guilds are fractured, dead, gone and the few that remain have been likely running the same content for over half a decade but with different numbers because gear. All they can do now is make it so that if we choose to pursue any sort of content, it remains engaging and allows us to branch off into something else without a completely gear-shock.

 

If I want to GSF all day for the first few months and then decide "Hmm, let me try my hand at some Hard Modes flashpoints or Ops, I got these tactical items and some gear worth a damn", that sounds fine to me. Now if it were people wanting the top gear in game for completing story crap and dailies for 6+ months *cough* Ossus *cough*, then I'd be turned off completely but let it roll out and let people voice their concerns. I don't need or want BiS, but I would like to play the game and not feel pigeon holed into certain content only.

 

As of right now you are pigeon holed into doing certain content only, I agree!!! If you want the best gear you have to partake in Ossus and yes, the lack of challenging content may have ran people who were actually serious but i still do not get your point. The last three years I have been playing this game off and on and I only do PvP and story so i rarely gear grind but I do not mind grinding for better/ more efficient gear even if I have to do harder content. Especially if that grind allows me to have an edge over players who decide not to grind. That is fair IMO

[Seterade]

In every videogame I own, I have beaten the game on hard mode (whatever each game was called) I have never done it for fame, bragging rights, or even items. Most games do not offer an item edge for completeing hard mode. I do it because it's fun. I do it because I know I'm good enough to do it, and I'll be darned if a new game is going to be better than me. is there a gold crown on my soras head for beating lingering will? yup, does it do anything? no it awknowledges that I did it, as achievments do in swtor. Do I get a gear edge for beating MGS snake eater on hard? you do.. but if you use them on the second playthrough your rating plummets.

[Lhancelot]

In every videogame I own, I have beaten the game on hard mode (whatever each game was called) I have never done it for fame, bragging rights, or even items. I do it because it's fun. I do it because I know I'm good enough to do it, and I'll be darned if a new game is going to be better than me.

 

Check out p99 EQ1 free emu server. Play it. If you want hard, that game is one of the last MMOs to really punish the player for being dumb. The server has very active guides, and even if all you do is solo, just breaking a camp of 5 mobs up requires steady and smart strategy to pull.

 

lol from the very start at lvl 1 even con mobs will destroy you unless you got super twink gears on, and once you are doing dragons and higher tier raids you are facing mobs that require real understanding of game mechanics and you'd have to join a raid if you wanted to try the hardest the server has to offer.

 

Anyway, it's a great game, even now. Very challenging, and even to this day the class spells and gameplay of the classes is really special and enjoyable. I hate the competitiveness of the raid guilds and so never liked the raiding there, but I can appreciate the challenge raiding can provide players there.

 

I also think it's interesting to see eq1 in it's original format, too. I view it as a piece of art, and as one of the first MMOs created it gives us a view into where games like WOW and SWTOR came from. It's like the OG of MMOs!

[ZionHalcyon]

People play video games for a lot of different reasons. If my analogy went over your head, im sorry. Ill try to dumb it down next time!!!

 

If all you have is an insult, then you don't have an argument to stand on.

 

Yes, people do harder content to be rewarded for it.

 

But that doesn't make the people doing the hard content the sole gatekeepers.

 

That's like people who work white collar jobs saying no one who is blue collar is allowed to buy a nice house or a big screen TV.

 

That's insane.

 

It may take them longer, but a blue collar worker deserves the same things a white collar worker does. It just takes them longer to save.

 

Which is why this new gearing system works - harder content gets you the gear you want faster. THAT is the reward on doing harder content.

 

Players may play harder content to be rewarded for it, but developers make content with the intent that it be enjoyed by as many as possible.

 

So any player acting like an unofficial gatekeeper imho is just making a complete and utter fool of themselves...

[Delani]

If all you have is an insult, then you don't have an argument to stand on.

 

Yes, people do harder content to be rewarded for it.

 

But that doesn't make the people doing the hard content the sole gatekeepers.

 

That's like people who work white collar jobs saying no one who is blue collar is allowed to buy a nice house or a big screen TV.

 

That's insane.

 

It may take them longer, but a blue collar worker deserves the same things a white collar worker does. It just takes them longer to save.

 

Which is why this new gearing system works - harder content gets you the gear you want faster. THAT is the reward on doing harder content.

 

Players may play harder content to be rewarded for it, but developers make content with the intent that it be enjoyed by as many as possible.

 

So any player acting like an unofficial gatekeeper imho is just making a complete and utter fool of themselves...

 

Ok, now your getting it, yes blue collar and white collar deserve the same things I completly agree, but if white collar jobs didnt offer more money, people wouldnt strive to be white collar. Also the benefits/rewards (clout, respect, more money, etc.) of being white collar gives people incentive to work for it. The same ideology being implemented into video games, from a psychological standpoint, is a good thing because we are already programmed to think/behave in this manner. Also, they are allowing everyone to get the best tacticals but it will take longer unless you want to work harder and complete more difficult task in order to do so.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Delani

[Delani]

In every videogame I own, I have beaten the game on hard mode (whatever each game was called) I have never done it for fame, bragging rights, or even items. Most games do not offer an item edge for completeing hard mode. I do it because it's fun. I do it because I know I'm good enough to do it, and I'll be darned if a new game is going to be better than me. is there a gold crown on my soras head for beating lingering will? yup, does it do anything? no it awknowledges that I did it, as achievments do in swtor. Do I get a gear edge for beating MGS snake eater on hard? you do.. but if you use them on the second playthrough your rating plummets.

 

Even if you are unaware of it, beating the game on hard mode did reward you in some type of way, or else you would not have done it. It may have been the satisfaction of knowing your capabilites or something else but you did get rewarded. In a multiplayer video game, the reward should be shown/visible so your counterparts can see it and acknowledge your completion in order to prove that you have succesfully completed harder content which is why I do not mind them rewarding players for completing harder content with "better" tacticals.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Delani

[Seterade]

Even if you are unaware of it, beating the game on hard mode did reward you in some type of way, or else you would not have done it. It may have been the satisfaction of knowing your capabilites or something else but you did get rewarded. In a multiplayer video game, the reward should be shown/visible so your counterparts can see it and acknowledge your completion in order to prove that you have succesfully completed harder content which is why I do not mind them rewarding players for completing harder content with "better" tacticals.

 

Most games, you get an Achievement awknowledging your ability, SWTOR does this as well. But what this topic is about is "Normal" mode not providing the same tangible game effecting reward, as "hard mode". I see this as wrong, hard content for for the challenge, not so you can 1 shot level 20 mobs. I was never one of those gamers who max leveled then went and farmed level 10 mobs. I feel like a bully when I fight something less than me.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Seterade

[foxmob]

Right off the bat you got the problem with saying "play your way" , but you'll have to do ranked pvp or master mode operations to get some super rare tactical items. So someone like me, who stopped playing ranked pvp years ago, because it was a joke (and probably still is)...though I do like your arenas (all of them).....so if I just play unranked I won't get XYZ tactical item for my class and discipline. What is then stopping ranked player playing unranked wz and having total advantage over others,who can't get that . And you know it's gonna happen. .

 

This made me laugh. If you play unranked, you won't get more than a sniff of those arenas that you enjoy because they were taken out of rotation and now only pop when population is too low to fill a 16-man map.

[ZionHalcyon]

Ok, now your getting it, yes blue collar and white collar deserve the same things I completly agree, but if white collar jobs didnt offer more money, people wouldnt strive to be white collar. Also the benefits/rewards (clout, respect, more money, etc.) of being white collar gives people incentive to work for it. The same ideology being implemented into video games, from a psychological standpoint, is a good thing because we are already programmed to think/behave in this manner. Also, they are allowing everyone to get the best tacticals but it will take longer unless you want to work harder and complete more difficult task in order to do so.

 

I got it all along. Your raging is what made me think you were clueless on the subject.

[HoloTweed]

Because Elitist players DESERVE stuff that casuals don't. You put more effort into doing things, you deserve a greater reward.

 

I hope this is sarcasm... because a "casual" player pays the SAME AMOUNT as an "elitist" player for access to this game and therefore deserves THE SAME GOOD STUFF. How OFTEN you play shouldn't gate you from the best gear... only change the pace at which you can get it. The. Exact. Same. Gear.

[robertthebard]

Ok, now your getting it, yes blue collar and white collar deserve the same things I completly agree, but if white collar jobs didnt offer more money, people wouldnt strive to be white collar. Also the benefits/rewards (clout, respect, more money, etc.) of being white collar gives people incentive to work for it. The same ideology being implemented into video games, from a psychological standpoint, is a good thing because we are already programmed to think/behave in this manner. Also, they are allowing everyone to get the best tacticals but it will take longer unless you want to work harder and complete more difficult task in order to do so.

 

This is a really terrible analogy. I have a friend that's a bank teller, a very definite White Collar job, and I have a friend that's a welder, care to guess which one makes more money?

 

So where are we going to draw that line? I can already attest that this gearing system is flawed, at least the idea behind it is, because I've seen players with BiS gear that weren't worth having in groups because they didn't understand the mechanics of the content required to get it. I have literally replaced some of them with companions where I could. When you can get carried through the content, using it as a gateway isn't necessarily a good thing. I'm in the boat of "I don't care about it any more".

 

I've been an Ops tank, healer and dps. I've got trophies in my SHs that support it, but at some point, I lost interest in the grind. I no longer require BiS gear, or these additional perks, for that matter, and so I don't care how they're available, they're not something I'm going after. If I accidentally wind up with them, great, but it's going to be just that, accidentally, because I'm not going to decide I need to go all hardcore again because "new gear".

[DarthSpuds]

I am glad that you brought this up! There has been some misconception about how gearing works when we indicate play your way. Let me make some direct statements and then I will add clarification:

• You do not need to play any content to get specific items.
  
• You can play almost any content in the game to get any item.

 

Since you brought up specifically that you never want to play ranked and only want to play unranked let me use that as an example. It is still possible that specific items come from specific content. Let's say that there was a specific tactical that only came from ranked. Yes, that does mean that specific item will not come from playing unranked warzones. However, you can get that item from Renown Crates, Conquest rewards, and by spending Charles Points/ChuxBux (on both the in-direct and direct vendors).

 

The play the content you want portion of the loop may not give you availability to every item in the game, that is true. But every other part of the loop does. So again to put it directly...

 

If you only want to play unranked warzones, you can, and you will still have access to every set and tactical item in the game. (this statement is true of almost every content type in the game at max level).

 

I hope that provides some clarity and allows you to be excited about what we are doing with spoils of war!

 

-eric

 

So what you are actually selling as "Play Your Way" is in reality, "Play How We Want You To Play - Or Suffer Through More RNG".

 

Well, just be honest and call it that then.

 

All The Best