It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

[robertthebard]

What? I've explained very clearly, and so have others. We are essentially making a request of Bioware that they re-release 3 year old story content. It will have to be paid for in some way. That's it. There's nothing complicated about it. You say "exclusive rewards should remain exclusive." Why? First, it seems like a big assumption on your part that "exclusive" rewards will stay "exclusive" forever. Second, as myself and others have pointed to, Bioware has already re-released plenty of things that people felt were "exclusive." Your complaint about exclusivity really comes down to extreme pettiness on your part, and if you can't see that, I can't help you.

 

It's not like I need the story or companion, and that's why no one is demanding them. But it would be nice if Bioware gave people a chance to play the content who haven't been able to for 3 years. So yes, our request does boil down to "but I want it," which strikes me as a perfectly adequate reason to ask for something. After all, it's really up to Bioware whether they want to act on the request or not. It's not as if I'm claiming they have to do it, just that it would a good thing if they did.

 

 

 

Speaking for myself, I just want to play the chapter. Can you really construe that desire as greedy, envious or entitled? It has nothing to do with other people having it, I just want to be able to experience it myself. And again, its up to Bioware, I make no demands of them.

 

Because that's literally what exclusive means? If you wanted to play the chapter, you should have been subbed for it like everyone else that got it was. It's amazing that this little piece of information is irrelevant to the conversation, until it excludes you from having the content, isn't it?

[robertthebard]

For anyone saying they paid $105 for Arma Rasa and Shroud of Memory I dare them to call up BW and request them to deduct, even if it puts them into a negative balance, 3500 Cartel Coins from their account plus any CC's they may have received from referral grants. To claim that those seven months of subscription had zero other value than the bonus chapter is ludicrous. But if you stand by that then call BW and have those Coins removed. Either do that or understand that everyone knows you are making a disingenuous argument.

 

If you paid monthly you paid $104.93, if you were on the 6-month recurring subscription you paid $90.93, for those seven months to have full access to the game, the monthly Coin grants, access to referral grants, and everything else that comes with a subscription. That. Has. Value. Whether you like it or not, whether you acknowledge it or not, that has value, and that will be taken into consideration by BW if they decide to sell AR/SoM on the CM.

 

But if you stand by your claim that your subscription had no other value then call up BW and have those 3500 CC (4200 if on the 6-month plan) deducted from your account.

 

Nice strawman here, if we totally ignore that it was required to get the content, and now, here we are discussing how this requirement should be waived, or altered, to suit those that either weren't here, or were, and decided at the time that it wasn't all that important, and have now changed their minds.

[Jdast]

Because that's literally what exclusive means? If you wanted to play the chapter, you should have been subbed for it like everyone else that got it was. It's amazing that this little piece of information is irrelevant to the conversation, until it excludes you from having the content, isn't it?

 

Here is the offer...

 

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

Please show me where the words "exclusive" and "one time only" appear. Even if they did appear -- the EULA grants them carte blanche to change anything they want.

 

You, like others, want to rake BW over the coals for at worst sloppy marketing.

 

Dasty

[robertthebard]

Here is the offer...

 

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

Please show me where the words "exclusive" and "one time only" appear. Even if they did appear -- the EULA grants them carte blanche to change anything they want.

 

You, like others, want to rake BW over the coals for at worst sloppy marketing.

 

Dasty

 

I bolded it for you. Are you planning to jump in a time machine to meet the terms and conditions for the content? No? Then you don't need it.

[Jdast]

I bolded it for you. Are you planning to jump in a time machine to meet the terms and conditions for the content? No? Then you don't need it.

 

Qualifying for it during that time period does not preclude them from offering different time periods in the future. No TARDIS needed.

 

With respect, that's basic, rudimentary English. It's not even legalese jargon spin.

 

Dasty

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jdast

[Batwer]

I just want the chapter. I have HK. I did not get it because only one day did not have a subscription.....No one dies of it when they start the timer again. Those who already have it, do not necessarily have to have a subscription all the time.

 

There are some things that I found unfair, but the BW has done anyway.

For example: Datacron of the master. Someone who is too lazy to level, should not even get the titles.

 

Why is BW so reserved now? It did not interest them otherwise what some players think ...

[JediMasterAlex]

Qualifying for it during that time period does not preclude them from offering different time periods in the future. No TARDIS needed.

 

With respect, that's basic, rudimentary English. It's not even legalese jargon spin.

 

Dasty

 

Dasty is 100% correct on this point. There's a reason i was putting "exclusive" in quotes. The promotion laid out the terms for getting the content without at all stopping them from offering it again.

[robertthebard]

Qualifying for it during that time period does not preclude them from offering different time periods in the future. No TARDIS needed.

 

With respect, that's basic, rudimentary English. It's not even legalese jargon spin.

 

Dasty

 

Then the solution is simple going forward: Don't set up promotions like this one, with specific timeline guidelines. If I tell someone I'm going to offer x for y time period, that's what I need to do. If I'm going to reserve the right to offer it later, I need to make that clear at the time, not 3 years later, or 6 months later. What it comes down to now is "well, we got your money, so you can sod off, we want this other money now". If they hadn't set certain expectations on this content, then the expectations wouldn't exist.

 

Everything else is rationalization or justification for "but I want it, so they should find a way to go back on what they said and provide it" from people that, when they feel adversely affected by something like this, will be out in force with pitchforks talking about how they can't trust BW when they say something. So yes, I'm expecting BW to live up to what they actually told us, instead of bowing to the "but I want it" pleas. At the end of the day, I am adversely affected by this, because I was told this is what was required to get it, only to find out all I had to do was wait a while, and it'll suddenly be available through some other means because someone got their feelings hurt that they can't get something.

[Ryu_Wanderfalke]

Incredible how many people can't get out of their way to defend their privilege that they did very little for to get in the first place, even after all these years, not to mention the fact that their current gaming experience wouldn't be negatively affected or hampered in any way other than possibly seeing a few more people run around with HK-55 as their companion. Wow. Edited May 13, 2019 by Ryu_Wanderfalke

[robertthebard]

Incredible how many people can't get out of their way to defend their privilege that they did very little for to get in the first place, even after all these years. Wow.

 

We stayed subbed for 7 months, whether we were inclined to due to what was being released at the time or not. What's funnier, to me, is the "privilege" of those that didn't, whether they were around or not, and yet expect they should be able to get it. So yes, I echo your sentiment: Wow, the level of entitlement would be shocking, if I weren't used to seeing it.

[Ryu_Wanderfalke]

We stayed subbed for 7 months, whether we were inclined to due to what was being released at the time or not. What's funnier, to me, is the "privilege" of those that didn't, whether they were around or not, and yet expect they should be able to get it. So yes, I echo your sentiment: Wow, the level of entitlement would be shocking, if I weren't used to seeing it.

 

 

Well, a glass of water can be half empty or half full. This seems to be one of these cases where you have either a negative or positive perspective, where you are either a negative or positive influence.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Ryu_Wanderfalke

[ceryxp]

Nice strawman here...

 

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. In fact, I know it doesn't mean what you think it means. A straw man argument is when one argues against something that wasn't claimed in order to refute the claim that was made. I made an argumentum ad absurdum; an argument to absurdity. Why? Because people have in this thread claimed that their seven months of subscription carried zero value beyond access to HK-55 and SoM. I took their claim to the absurd because they have made multiple absurd claims and arguments during this discussion.

 

 

I bolded it for you. Are you planning to jump in a time machine to meet the terms and conditions for the content? No? Then you don't need it.

 

Here, I highlighted the relevant section that Dasty left out. The part that refutes your argument.

 

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

 

Those dates, which qualified one for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, were part of that promotion. That promotion has ended. If this material is offered again it will be offered under new Terms and Conditions, and anyone who wishes to receive the material will have to comply with those T&C's.

[Gilrenna]

I wish they would change this. I would love to be able to experience all this content for myself. It's a shame that I'm locked out of it.

[JediMasterAlex]

Incredible how many people can't get out of their way to defend their privilege that they did very little for to get in the first place, even after all these years, not to mention the fact that their current gaming experience wouldn't be negatively affected or hampered in any way other than possibly seeing a few more people run around with HK-55 as their companion. Wow.

 

Exactly right.

 

We stayed subbed for 7 months, whether we were inclined to due to what was being released at the time or not. What's funnier, to me, is the "privilege" of those that didn't, whether they were around or not, and yet expect they should be able to get it. So yes, I echo your sentiment: Wow, the level of entitlement would be shocking, if I weren't used to seeing it.

 

How many times do I have to say that no one "expects" to be able to get it. We are just asking. There is no entitlement here. If Eric posts in this thread tomorrow saying "We changed our minds, we won't be offering this again," you will not find me saying "But you owe it to us!" I will simply move on, because it's Bioware's decision.

[denavin]

Something that everybody (including myself) is forgetting....

 

HK-55 and The Shroud of Memory along with all the other stuff that came with it is.......

 

"A Subscriber ONLY Reward!"

 

Thus it should Remain a "Subscriber ONLY Reward". Which would preclude the use of CC to buy it since ANYBODY can use CC. The Cartel Market does not distinguish between Subscribers and F2P, since it is a "Subscriber ONLY Reward", CC would NOT be able to be used.

Edited May 13, 2019 by denavin

[TrixxieTriss]

Something that everybody (including myself) is forgetting....

 

HK-55 and The Shroud of Memory along with all the other stuff that came with it is.......

 

"A Subscriber ONLY Reward!"

 

Thus it should Remain a "Subscriber ONLY Reward". Which would preclude the use of CC to buy it since ANYBODY can use CC. The Cartel Market does not distinguish between Subscribers and F2P, since it is a "Subscriber ONLY Reward", CC would NOT be able to be used.

 

Easy fix.

 

Retroactively award it to people who have been subscribed for the last 6 months or buy a 6 months subscription if they aren’t already subscribed.

Problem solved.

[vingmotor]

I wish they would change this. I would love to be able to experience all this content for myself. It's a shame that I'm locked out of it.

 

agreed fully.

[TrixxieTriss]

Participation trophy.

 

LoL, that would be a good title for some people and and even better character name.

Edited May 13, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[QuinlanSaathis]

Easy fix.

 

Retroactively award it to people who have been subscribed for the last 6 months or buy a 6 months subscription if they aren’t already subscribed.

Problem solved.

 

Not Easy

 

I have been subscribed for the last 6 months, what do I get instead of this?

(this is the core of my entire argument, it has to be FAIR to all)

 

Problem not solved.

Edited May 13, 2019 by QuinlanSaathis

[TrixxieTriss]

Not Easy

 

I have been subscribed for the last 6 months, what do I get instead of this?

(this is the core of my entire argument, it has to be FAIR to all)

 

Problem not solved.

 

Why should you get anything? Honestly, I’ve been subbed for 7 years, I’ve already got the rewards. I doesn’t hurt me at all if other people are allowed to do old content and get a reward for it.

It might even keep them around for a bit instead of unsubbing to wait till 6.0.

 

All you seem to be doing is looking at this from your own self interest (self entitlement) and not the wider community or the games health.

So if you are only interested in yourself, try looking at how it helps you.

1. More people stay subbed = Bioware have more money for developing the game = they might be able to make “you” some new reward in the future

2. More people stay subbed = more people for “you” to play with

3. Those not subbed and then resub for 6 months = points 1 + 2 = good for “you”

 

There is nothing that negatively impacts your game play by giving subscribers access to “old content and rewards”.

It actually helps “you” if it gets them to keep playing the game and generate money and you have people to play with.

 

If you want a reward as compensation for staying subscribed, then ask Bioware for one in the other thread I made and stop derailing this thread.

You aren’t being helpful in this thread or adding value to the discussion. And you aren’t helping your own position or those who might like a bonus loyalty reward if Bioware opened up this old content. All you are doing is demanding something for doing nothing at the detriment of the players around you.

 

All I’m doing is “asking” Bioware if they would consider doing this because it’s old content and it would give people something to do while waiting for 6.0. None of us are demanding anything, unlike you who seems to think Bioware owe you something for doing what you would continue doing regardless.

 

I found this definition of entitlement :

An entitlement is the right to a particular privilege or benefit, granted by law or custom. ie : You have a legal entitlement to speak to a lawyer if you're ever arrested and put in jail.

If someone has a sense of entitlement, that means the person believes he deserves certain privileges — and he's arrogant about it. The term "culture of entitlement" suggests that many people now have highly unreasonable expectations about what they are entitled to.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/entitlement

Edited May 13, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[denavin]

Easy fix.

 

Retroactively award it to people who have been subscribed for the last 6 months or buy a 6 months subscription if they aren’t already subscribed.

Problem solved.

 

These were the Original Required Conditions and they should remain the Required Conditions .

 

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1 (year removed). Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

No Short Cuts.... No Easy Way....

[TrixxieTriss]

These were the Original Required Conditions and they should remain the Required Conditions .

 

 

 

No Short Cuts.... No Easy Way....

 

So 6-7 months of subscription? Which is basically what I said. Unless you have a time machine handy, those exact conditions you mentioned, can never be met again.

[Sareeph]

Something that everybody (including myself) is forgetting....

 

HK-55 and The Shroud of Memory along with all the other stuff that came with it is.......

 

"A Subscriber ONLY Reward!"

 

Thus it should Remain a "Subscriber ONLY Reward". Which would preclude the use of CC to buy it since ANYBODY can use CC. The Cartel Market does not distinguish between Subscribers and F2P, since it is a "Subscriber ONLY Reward", CC would NOT be able to be used.

 

 

Easy fix.

 

Retroactively award it to people who have been subscribed for the last 6 months or buy a 6 months subscription if they aren’t already subscribed.

Problem solved.

 

This is where it isn't as easy as people like to claim. You can watch the Livestream of Ben and Eric discussing this very promotion and the promises they make for it here. Starting around the 16:30 mark and up to the 18:30ish minute mark they discuss and promise certain things. Like around the 16:45 mark and around the 18:05 min marks. In which they state If you subscribe from January 11th to August 1st 2016, "you will get access to a chapter which no one else can play" and Ben throws the "make them feel more <Exclusive>" tag on these sub rewards for the promo.

 

 

So either they give something away which they promised as "exclusive" and "no one else can play" to people who were not eligible for the promo and piss off those they made a promise to or, they don't give it away and piss off the ones who want it now. Not a situation which providers like to be in and I'm sure is weighing heavily on their minds.

[Drenovade]

Because that's literally what exclusive means? If you wanted to play the chapter, you should have been subbed for it like everyone else that got it was. It's amazing that this little piece of information is irrelevant to the conversation, until it excludes you from having the content, isn't it?

 

Since you brought it up, the difference between some rewards and others is how they were marketed to the consumer. But yeah ... they have brought back retread rewards that had descriptions like "last chance" ... "final chance" ... "exclusive" ... "before it's too late." That is why I keep repeating that they will bring this one back too.

 

I think y'all are reading a little too deeply into what it means for something to be "exclusive" or offered as a "last chance". These words and phrases are open-ended. It may mean "exclusive forever" or it may mean "last chance to obtain from this specific promotion". The rewards may still be offered again in future promotions. Here are some social media posts just from the last year confirming this:

 

 

Both examples use "last chance", yet obviously the bounty event comes back on a regular basis and those CM items have also returned. You just prefer the interpretation of "last chance to ever obtain" and "exclusive forever" because it supports your argument that rewards should never be brought back so that you can maximize the value in having obtained them the first time.

 

You may lose some of your special snowflake status when they're brought back, but don't pretend like keeping the rewards exclusive to yourself permanently is some kind of entitlement. They already have an established history of bringing back certain rewards from in-game events and sub rewards like Nico and Shae.

 

If getting permanently exclusive rewards is that important to you, there are plenty of other rewards out there that will probably never come back. I doubt they'll bring back the HK-themed weapons, armor, and mount for example.

 

There's still always going to be a chance that some rewards never return. Many haven't. I doubt this will even remotely impact your decision to indulge in future promotions because you won't want to take that chance if you really want something. Besides, story-related content should NEVER be exclusive forever to begin with.

[TrixxieTriss]

This is where it isn't as easy as people like to claim. You can watch the Livestream of Ben and Eric discussing this very promotion and the promises they make for it here. Starting around the 16:30 mark and up to the 18:30ish minute mark they discuss and promise certain things. Like around the 16:45 mark and around the 18:05 min marks. In which they state If you subscribe from January 11th to August 1st 2016, "you will get access to a chapter which no one else can play" and Ben throws the "make them feel more <Exclusive>" tag on these sub rewards for the promo.

 

 

So either they give something away which they promised as "exclusive" and "no one else can play" to people who were not eligible for the promo and piss off those they made a promise to or, they don't give it away and piss off the ones who want it now. Not a situation which providers like to be in and I'm sure is weighing heavily on their minds.

 

LoL, Yeah, but Ben also said RNG was fun. So whose to say he wasn’t lying with this as well