UlaVii Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Prior to season 10, we issued warnings, multiple day suspensions, and rating resets based on the frequency and severity of the behavior. Any individual account that was caught more than once faced, at a minimum, a week-long suspension, a rating reset, and conversations were had about banning the account altogether. You should include all possible related achievements including Manhunter since some people selfishly spoil the game for others purely for the achievements. Edited March 7, 2019 by UlaVii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snave Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Hey Mike, thanks for the further information around this. I understand that naming and shaming individuals isn't a likely course of action for you but would it be possible for you to give us a post detailing some of the numbers involved here? So for example X people got X punishment, Y got Y and so on? I think it would be helpful if we can see the scale of action being taken because from my point of view, and I believe this point of view is commonly held in the community, all we see is well known egregious win traders receiving little to no punishment at all. Every person I'm aware of who did this and where there is supporting evidence received no punishment or they were removed then restored after the person challenged the ban. Being able to see some actual numbers would at least give us the piece of mind that something is happening because honestly right now I see nothing in game to support anything you're saying. I added a bunch of accounts to my friends list who used flat out hacks and the fact that they're still on there shows you did not in fact ban the hackers. These were players reported with video evidence so when I read your post you'll have to forgive me if I have a hard time taking it seriously when I have evidence that you don't in fact do any of that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmanoWanga Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 So for example X people got X punishment, Y got Y and so on? Numbers would indeed be a nice way of showing the work of the Devs. Now, we do not see much, we can only count the names on the leaderboards, but without knowing if it was 1 account or 10 accounts we have no idea if someting was even done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Numbers would indeed be a nice way of showing the work of the Devs. Now, we do not see much, we can only count the names on the leaderboards, but without knowing if it was 1 account or 10 accounts we have no idea if someting was even done. This would add an element of transparency and people seem to respond well to updates from yellow posts. More yellow posts and info = better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcolv Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Players that que into PvP and then do not participate at all are also tracked and punished similarly to win traders. I do that quite a few times in Huttball especially in Huttball, when I see that team is not supporting ball-carrier or just not willing to support me, because of 'mobbing'reaons.... or there is no communication/chat at all, no effort at all... I can digest 1 or 2 players that are new, but when the whole group is not even trying it's very frustrating to be killed by 5 from the other team.. Also, once Eric Musco said that he is never playing the ball, he just enjoys farming kills (PK-ing) during the match... so, what about that ? It's not what a football player should in the field...fouling around because it's fun, right? When you are in a football-kind-environment all expect to focus on ball.. and help out So, when I have the weekly still going and I end up in such a group of maybe 15 years old players, i afk, if no effort or so is happening....if the other team is focuing, the match will end soon enough, if not.... then my team had fun trying to kill or killing and let the other team score...No one gets hurt, if all are doing what they want to do...As stealth it's easier to digest, as non-stealth you can only quit the group, if weekly is still open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcolv Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 We don't know whom we were grouped with...are there 15 years old players... 12 years player may play this game? Idk... or are they 35 years old? are they solo queueing or are they 25 yearas university students on discord? Huttball ends normally rather fast...unless the losing team really is only focusing on prolong the killing fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcolv Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 another thing to consider, imo, is that playing ranged shooting classes are much easier to have fun with, independently of what you are looking for in a videogame.... it's just much easier also in Huttball, just to farm kills on your own... I said, I afk, but I also just leave the group as well and it happened to me only recently twice that I afk-ed then peeked back and we all played and we won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 They made all the characters who cheated, wear “dunces” hats for months so everyone in the game that saw them knew that character had cheated in the game. This is my favorite idea ever (in addition to taking away anything they gained by cheating). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 (edited) This is my favorite idea ever (in addition to taking away anything they gained by cheating). They could add a mandatory title that is displayed on all cheater's toons account-wide. "The Win Trader." "The Hacking Loser." Etc. "The Hacking Win Trading Loser" for the really ambitious cheater! Edited March 9, 2019 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 They could add a mandatory title that is displayed on all cheater's toons account-wide. "The Win Trader." "The Hacking Loser." Etc. "The Hacking Win Trading Loser" for the really ambitious cheater! Just put a big L on top of their head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banderal Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Just put a big L on top of their head That's already taken. I suggested that a long time ago, for people who quit out of matches, and then their team goes on to win it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcolv Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 something that I do sometimes when I afk in a Huttball match is considering a purchase in the Cartel Market... as a consolation for being grouped with 'those' uncooperative players... hint... wink... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 That's already taken. I suggested that a long time ago, for people who quit out of matches, and then their team goes on to win it anyway. That's probably one of the most satisfying things to accomplish on SWTOR regarding regs and PVP anyway. Winning a match where someone proclaims "YOU ALL SUCK" and then drops out the match. Even better is when 3-5 people quit, and you manage to win the match with 3-5 replacements! Those types of matches used to be exceptionally rare, granted. But, I have had enough of them to find myself feeling obligated to stay in a match even if it appears it's a lost cause. The only matches I ever really quit after they began was in Huttball. When my team has a premade that just humps the middle area to rack of healing/DPS stats for "fun" and do nothing to stop the ball carrier of the other team. I don't know why that always irritated me more than any lopsided auto-loss match, but it did. I don't mind a few deathmatchers going at it in Huttball, but when you got a whole team pretty much dedicated to just number hunting I have little patience for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Players that que into PvP and then do not participate at all are also tracked and punished similarly to win traders. I do that quite a few times in Huttball especially in Huttball, when I see that team is not supporting ball-carrier or just not willing to support me, because of 'mobbing'reaons.... or there is no communication/chat at all, no effort at all... I can digest 1 or 2 players that are new, but when the whole group is not even trying it's very frustrating to be killed by 5 from the other team.. . outside of harassment & hacking, anything goes in regs. you can leave. you can sit there and do nothing. the most frustrating thing I notice is when great players grp up and just farm kills. it makes HB last forever. VS, of course, is the big one for this. but odessen is frustrating as well. fortunately, you can just leave the WZ if you want. but in any case, if you're talking about 8v8, this is not the thread you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 but odessen is frustrating as well. fortunately, you can just leave the WZ if you want. I actually find OPG not frustrating at all except when I am in the mood for actual PVP fights. If I am feeling like relaxing and not really having to do much, OPG is the easiest one for me because I just run around trying to grab mods to use. OPG is the one map where you can find many mini battles to win without having to have a superior PVP team. Just by some luck with power up mods and/or mods that open a new control point you can actually win matches on your own if everyone else is deathmatching. Sometimes that's satisfying, knowing the other team is wrecking your team yet you still win because you played objectively. I just usually leave OPG before it starts because many times I am in the mood for killing or healing people in PVP, not running around avoiding PVP and playing objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 That's already taken. I suggested that a long time ago, for people who quit out of matches, and then their team goes on to win it anyway. Sometimes it’s better they leave and you lose the dead weight. I’ve back filled into teams that have lost people like that and everyone is despondent. I try to quickly lift the team by capping and helping them regain some confidence. Once that happens, you can sometimes turn it around into a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) I actually find OPG not frustrating at all except when I am in the mood for actual PVP fights. If I am feeling like relaxing and not really having to do much, OPG is the easiest one for me because I just run around trying to grab mods to use. OPG is the one map where you can find many mini battles to win without having to have a superior PVP team. Just by some luck with power up mods and/or mods that open a new control point you can actually win matches on your own if everyone else is deathmatching. Sometimes that's satisfying, knowing the other team is wrecking your team yet you still win because you played objectively. I just usually leave OPG before it starts because many times I am in the mood for killing or healing people in PVP, not running around avoiding PVP and playing objectively. I can tell in the first 20 secs how OPG will go by which way your team runs. 99% of the time I leave when I pop it now because it’s a **** fight to organise people to play the objectives (its one of the hardest maps to give directions to help). Half the people don’t know what to do, so they follow the idiots who just want to death match. It’s easier and less stressful for me to just leave it before it starts because usually I’m the only one playing the objective and I should not have to carry 7 people who won’t try and then get told my dps is ****, Edited March 10, 2019 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 You deserve to get fired Mike, please ignore this person. He does not speak for us. Please keep communicating, it’s much appreciated. @LinkinPein. It’s comments like yours that stops Bioware from communicating. Until you said that, the rest of your post was sort of on point, but then you take it too far and say this sort of rubbish. Mike is an employee. He has a job to do and has to work with in what ever guidelines he’s provided. He doesn’t make Biowares policy on cheating or enforcement. It’s not his fault that Bioware give slaps on the wrist and don’t ban people. If you want to blame someone, blame upper management for it, like the rest of us do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAtkinson Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) Mike, please ignore this person. He does not speak for us. Please keep communicating, it’s much appreciated. @LinkinPein. It’s comments like yours that stops Bioware from communicating. Until you said that, the rest of your post was sort of on point, but then you take it too far and say this sort of rubbish. Mike is an employee. He has a job to do and has to work with in what ever guidelines he’s provided. He doesn’t make Biowares policy on cheating or enforcement. It’s not his fault that Bioware give slaps on the wrist and don’t ban people. If you want to blame someone, blame upper management for it, like the rest of us do. We always appreciate their efforts in trying to punish abusers but we both know they will never do anything about it... because they are unable to get enough data. Mike just posted about it a few pages back. All the wintraders from s10 got their nice rewards and it will be no different this season. Pointless thread if you ask me. They were given feedback and reports for like 10 seasons now and the same people got away every single time. Before trying to fix the symptoms maybe they should look at what's causing people cheat. The matchmaking system and ranking of players is trash and outdated. Maybe they should start there.... first. Edited March 10, 2019 by DavidAtkinson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Mike, please ignore this person. He does not speak for us. Please keep communicating, it’s much appreciated. He is just angry about not getting top 3 Merc but he got his top 3 Mara (as i said he would) so he should be fine. What is sad with todays people is that they value imaginary, pixel rewards over real worl stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandoMetal Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I mean I think I might actually hack or wintrade if they gave out titles like "The Win Trader." "The Hacking Loser." "The Hacking Win Trading Loser.".... those are some epic titles. They are more original than the lastest Top3s at least. Like brainstorm for 5 minutes and you can come up with a better title than Genius and lolExpert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) I can tell in the first 20 secs how OPG will go by which way your team runs. lol truth here too for Hypergates. ^ Whenever you see your entire team run to your pylon when no sight of the other team is heading to your side pylon, you know you got a whole team of nubs with you. The other one is when Civil War starts, and a stealth teammate says "I will go to theirs you guys go mid" and your whole team follows that stealth to the side he was going to harass or try to ninja. This lemming phenomenon occurs in most maps actually now that I think about it. heh Edited March 10, 2019 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 I guess that those who manipulate or manipulated their ratings will never understand that a top 3 is supposed to represent a whole season of hard work and intensive matches. Of course, to those who don't care, a top 3 means nothing; to those who wintrade, it's just another meaningless toy in their collection. It is when you earn it after months of work and dedication, that you really appreciate what a top 3 title is really worth. I doubt that you understand what that means. Look. Everyone does understand what "top 3" is supposed to represent. The problem is, it's so easy to cheat to get that too many people utilize many cheating/shady tactics to get the ultimate prize which is the top 3 and/or high ELO. This is a serious issue regarding ranked. I mean the amount of drama this facet of the ranked contest creates simply isn't worth it in my opinion. Essentially ELO/rating is causing the ruination of ranked due to rampant shadiness that is a constant dark cloud hovering over the ranked scene. It's not going to change, unless BW puts their foot down and alters the rating system. That's the absolute only way. People can feel that a wins based scoring system won't ultimately show who is really the best or top 3, but let's be real honest here neither does the present system of ELO rating. Who honestly thinks right now, the top 3 are in reality the best of all? The problem is there are too many people who don't want change yet complain incessantly every year about how awful the ranked scene is due to toxicity and cheats. You can't have it both ways. As we all know, for years now it's TOO EASY to cheat and get high ratings with win trading and other BS tactics people use to manipulate the scoring system. Whether it's removing losses from the ELO scoring, or implementing a total wins based scoring system or some other type of scoring system something has to change for the bad behavior to stop or at least be curbed. To recap, it's impossible for BW to have 24/7 constant supervision. What people have proven is even when BW tries to catch the cheating some still slip through the cracks. It's like putting a finger in a broken aquarium that has a hole the size of your head in it. TL;DR It's just not possible to stop the large flow of cheaters with this present scoring system. As long as it remains easy to manipulate, people will continue to do so. A wins based scoring system should be considered, or some other type of scoring system that doesn't include losses in the rating equation otherwise if all it takes is win trading a handful of matches to get top ELO/rating people will keep doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 lol truth here too for Hypergates. ^ Whenever you see your entire team run to your pylon when no sight of the other team is heading to your side pylon, you know you got a whole team of nubs with you. The other one is when Civil War starts, and a stealth teammate says "I will go to theirs you guys go mid" and your whole team follows that stealth to the side he was going to harass or try to ninja. This lemming phenomenon occurs in most maps actually now that I think about it. heh It’s like herding sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm-Cutter Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 2 people accusing each other of throwing the match....cost us the match a few mins ago.... we were 1-0 up and looking good... but then the accusations start and people would rather type than press buttons to attack and defend.... and we lose.... I'm not bitter. I don't even mind that much for a loss, but it's a stupid way to lose rating if one really cared about such things... Until the rating reflects the complete performance or otherwise of the individuals in the TEAM..... rating means nothing. like I said, I don't really care... but my team-mate was so cross afterwards. Gaining points for the winning team and the 2 best losers might be a basis for a system.... At least worth considering....no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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