Farm Wars • TOR Update 5.10.* has made TWO YEARS of Random Gear Crates Grind Obsolete

[jimmorrisson]

Despite the questionable pink color of Malgus Return's skin, 5.10.* update is near expansion-tier level. Furthermore Level 70 characters can go straight to Ossus. All Chapters, Alliance Quests, and CXP grind are now optional.

 

For those who took their characters straight to Ossus only have the Unassembled Components (which should be listed on Currency Tab) and some unwanted companions as a reminder of the Grind Wars era 2016-18.

 

Update 5.10 combined with last summer's pvp update 5.9 is what this game needed. However at this point it maybe too late.

[JLazarillo]

I mean, not the first time they made gear grinding obsolete. The same thing happened in 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0 (and maybe 2.0, too? I wasn't doing endgame for the first year-and-change-ish of the game, and I don't remember very well). It'll probably happen again if/when there's a 6.0. Honestly, I'd just skip this round if I were you. S'what I'm doing, anyway.

[Paulsutherland]

Didn't they say they're doing a new tier gear for 6.0 in a podcast awhile back? So the gear we're grinding now will become obsolete whenever that drops.

[KendraP]

Of course a new MAJOR EXPANSION comes with a new gear tier. It also comes with a new level cap and the last few have had content rescaled to require the new gear. Additionally, because its a MAJOR EXPANSION I expect everything to be reset. Its part and parcel to such expansions.

 

Thus, had they increased the level cap to 75, called it 6.0 instead of 5.10, and either added 3 new gear tiers or gotten rid of the vendors on fleet for the old tier, fine. Its a "MAJOR EXPANSION".

 

But they didn't. They added a grind for the sake of grind to "keep people playing until 6.0." Or at least that seems to be the community consensus on the concept.

 

What we were told was that Mr Kanneg wanted a MM gods, so we were getting a MM gods despite the 0.001% of players that actually still bother doing MM ops. The other 99.999% of us either can not or will not do MM for whatever reason.

 

They had previously stated that HM gods was already scaled to be like MM, and thus no MM would be coming. This made sense considering ravagers and ToS, both of whom end at HM. (And given the number of people who have attempted to lord revanchist around, it apparently means something to someone).

 

Then, upon announcing MM gods, they said new gear would be necessary to complete it. This aspect was something totally in their control. They could have scaled HM down, or made MM harder with mechanics if HM is too close a dps check as it is. Instead, they added gear. How many people have actually been unsuccessful in 248 gear that are successful in 258? I'd bet not many - you either had the skill and group for it before or you still don't now.

 

So adding the gear was stupid because adding a MM version of an already (purposefully) overscaled op was stupid.

 

Furthermore, they already added a gear tier this expansion (248) around the time they also nerfed many/most dps specs to fit their tiers, leading to accusations of nerfing classes just to add gear. So they had already nerfed every endgame activity once (better gear means more dps/hps, which makes dps/hps checks easier in ALL content). Now, they do it again, but no nerfs to dps are forseeable (and if they did there would be an understandable riot), so they nerfed literally every op that is not gods to add MM gods.

 

So now we have another reason adding gear was stupid - it effectively nerfed every other op to add new gear.

 

Then there were the inevitable side effects - pvpers crying over new grind tied to pve of any kind, solo players crying over tying gear to group content, etc. It seems it would have been easier to, if they just had to add MM gods, to make it MM by a combination of nerfing HM back to the level of other HM and adding in mechanics if dps checks were already too tight.

 

So adding new gear was stupid because it added issues that could have been easily averted even if they insisted they had to add MM gods.

 

And now we get to the original point of the thread - this was not listed as a "MAJOR EXAPANSION". Thus, no one should have been expecting an entirely new gearing system in place of one that was already functioning. 5.0 was incredibly unpopular as it originally dropped. After 2 years of fiddling with the system to where it was finally tolerable for the overwhelming majority of players, they throw it out for max tier gear. After taking 2 years to get something working, why drop it like a hot potato? Further, if the insisted on adding gear, why not do so within the system that already existed for this expansion? Yes, it was probably a futless attempt to force players to ossus and gods so we are "enjoying their new content."

 

So adding gear was stupid because it completely threw away a functioning gearing system.

 

And that brings me to my conclusion - in order to avoid Musco counting me as a satisfied customer, I have not and will not participate in the futless new grind. Musco himself could grant me an entire 258 set and I wouldn't use it out of sheer principle.

 

TLDR: 5.10 was not a major expansion, and thus adding new gear was stupid because:

1. Adding MM gods in the first place was stupid

2. Adding new gear with the excuse of it being for MM gods was stupid

3. Nerfing every other op to add gear for mm gods was stupid

4. Creating discontent amongst the player base for minimal advantage in other portions of the player base was stupid

5. Getting rid of a gearing system it took 2 years to get to a tolerable level was stupid.

Edited February 19, 2019 by KendraP

[Rion_Starkiller]

Of course a new MAJOR EXPANSION comes with a new gear tier. It also comes with a new level cap and the last few have had content rescaled to require the new gear. Additionally, because its a MAJOR EXPANSION I expect everything to be reset. Its part and parcel to such expansions.

 

Thus, had they increased the level cap to 75, called it 6.0 instead of 5.10, and either added 3 new gear tiers or gotten rid of the vendors on fleet for the old tier, fine. Its a "MAJOR EXPANSION".

 

But they didn't. They added a grind for the sake of grind to "keep people playing until 6.0." Or at least that seems to be the community consensus on the concept.

 

I agree with all of this. This new grind would be great if it came with "MAJOR EXPANSION." I'm happy to see Galactic Command (seemingly) phased out. I wonder if SWTOR was EA's testing ground for a Destiny-esque eveling system that they will incorporate into Anthem.

 

Anyway, I hope that whole system goes away in 6.0.

 

I feel bad for solo pve'ers though. GC gearing is great for them.

 

What we were told was that Mr Kanneg wanted a MM gods, so we were getting a MM gods despite the 0.001% of players that actually still bother doing MM ops. The other 99.999% of us either can not or will not do MM for whatever reason.

 

They had previously stated that HM gods was already scaled to be like MM, and thus no MM would be coming. This made sense considering ravagers and ToS, both of whom end at HM. (And given the number of people who have attempted to lord revanchist around, it apparently means something to someone).

.

.

.

.

TLDR: 5.10 was not a major expansion, and thus adding new gear was stupid because:

1. Adding MM gods in the first place was stupid

2. Adding new gear with the excuse of it being for MM gods was stupid

3. Nerfing every other op to add gear for mm gods was stupid

4. Creating discontent amongst the player base for minimal advantage in other portions of the player base was stupid

5. Getting rid of a gearing system it took 2 years to get to a tolerable level was stupid.

 

You lost me in this section.

 

The reason the devs didn't create ToS and Ravagers NiM is because those were the last 2 raids before Ben "RNG is Exciting™" Irving decided to do away with raids and go full on MEDIOCRE STORY RAILROAD.

 

I guarantee you the longest and most difficult part of creating a raid is the Story and Hard modes. The NiM version is usually a couple of new mechanics for each boss, coupled with more HP, dmg output, etc. Stop trying to make it sound like all of the game's resources went into creating NiM.

 

Are you saying you want to keep the horrid Galactic Command system in place because you are used it now? It's only tolerable because they added UC's. And UC's have literally nothing to do with GC. I'm happy to provide links on the multiple threads complaining about the GC system. Please don't look back at GC with rose-tinted glasses.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[kodrac]

6.0 is a myth.

[KendraP]

I guarantee you the longest and most difficult part of creating a raid is the Story and Hard modes. The NiM version is usually a couple of new mechanics for each boss, coupled with more HP, dmg output, etc. Stop trying to make it sound like all of the game's resources went into creating NiM.

That was my entire point - even if they decided to add a NiM... why add new gear too? Make it the same as all the other NiM. And the rest are for the usual arguments- oh HM was already too hard, so they had to add new gear! Oh

 

Are you saying you want to keep the horrid Galactic Command system in place because you are used it now? It's only tolerable because they added UC's. And UC's have literally nothing to do with GC. I'm happy to provide links on the multiple threads complaining about the GC system. Please don't look back at GC with rose-tinted glasses.

I was one of the people screaming before 5.0 ever dropped that total random gearing was bad. That said, they spent 2 years making it tolerable. As it stands right now, the system using UCs with GC as a chance to shorten the grind was seemingly functioning for the overwhelming majority of people. Why toss out 2 years of work to add a grind dependent on only one planet for gear that it was totally stupid to add in the first place?

 

Oh wait, I know that answer. Because that was the only way they could artificially inflate participation in ossus to guarantee they could claim people were enjoying it.

 

Thus the reason that, beyond my one toon to see the story, I will never set foot on ossus or get any of the gear they added. I wouldn't use the 252/8 gear if it dropped in a crate at this point, and am spending less time playing swtor than i have in over half a decade.

Edited February 19, 2019 by KendraP

[Rion_Starkiller]

That was my entire point - even if they decided to add a NiM... why add new gear too? Make it the same as all the other NiM. And the rest are for the usual arguments- oh HM was already too hard, so they had to add new gear! Oh

 

 

I was one of the people screaming before 5.0 ever dropped that total random gearing was bad. That said, they spent 2 years making it tolerable. As it stands right now, the system using UCs with GC as a chance to shorten the grind was seemingly functioning for the overwhelming majority of people. Why toss out 2 years of work to add a grind dependent on only one planet for gear that it was totally stupid to add in the first place?

 

Oh wait, I know that answer. Because that was the only way they could artificially inflate participation in ossus to guarantee they could claim people were enjoying it.

 

Thus the reason that, beyond my one toon to see the story, I will never set foot on ossus or get any of the gear they added. I wouldn't use the 252/8 gear if it dropped in a crate at this point, and am spending less time playing swtor than i have in over half a decade.

 

Ok agree that minor updates don't need new gear -- preaching to choir and all that. Why even have gear for NiM Gods when there's Bolster? Heh.

 

I think there would have been less backlash if it had only been 1 tier higher gear, or if 252's were obtainable with 248 shells.

 

Did you like Yavin? Ossus is done in a similar style (slightly smaller). I think it's worth doing at least once. I stopped doing my dailies on Ossus and now just grab the weekly crystal missions and UC-to-crystal trades.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[KendraP]

Ok agree that minor updates don't need new gear -- preaching to choir and all that. Why even have gear for NiM Gods when there's Bolster? Heh.

 

I think there would have been less backlash if it had only been 1 tier higher gear, or if 252's were obtainable with 248 shells.

These were all things i was getting at with my original points, too. Just new gear was stupid to begin with, and implemented in the stupidest way possiblr in an obvious attempt to pigeonhole players into new content so they could claim it was enjoyed.

 

Did you like Yavin? Ossus is done in a similar style (slightly smaller). I think it's worth doing at least once. I stopped doing my dailies on Ossus and now just grab the weekly crystal missions and UC-to-crystal trades.

 

I did ossus once for the story, and was a bit disappointed, but that's purely my opinion. Ironically, i would bring more toons through ossus if they had not implemented the absurd gear, because its at least going in the direction i want them to go. But my stubborn side is kicking in on the gear. I'm good enough to not need the 258 gear for anything i do. I can probably outdo 99% of other guardians in this game being less geared than them, dps or tank wise.

 

Like i said, at this point my stubborn trigger has activated to the point where they could give me 258 gear and i wouldn't use it. I'm a principled person.

[ivanhedgehog]

Ok agree that minor updates don't need new gear -- preaching to choir and all that. Why even have gear for NiM Gods when there's Bolster? Heh.

 

I think there would have been less backlash if it had only been 1 tier higher gear, or if 252's were obtainable with 248 shells.

 

Did you like Yavin? Ossus is done in a similar style (slightly smaller). I think it's worth doing at least once. I stopped doing my dailies on Ossus and now just grab the weekly crystal missions and UC-to-crystal trades.

 

unless they changed it, bolster only exists in story modes.

[JattaGin]

Update 5.10 combined with last summer's pvp update 5.9 is what this game needed. However at this point it maybe too late.

 

Could you elaborate on this? I am particularly interested in how the shift from "all content is endgame content" to "only a very small planet is endgame content" is what this game needed?

 

I haven't been on Ossus once in February, because I cannot force myself to go there again. What is there to do except things I have done hundreds of times during December and January? Sure, one new operation boss is there now. So, as KendraP pointed out, the fine, but very small OPs community is happy about that (are they?). But what about the majority of the players? What business do they have on Ossus - the only endgame place - now?

 

The Galactic Command system has become completely obsolete now. There is absolutely no reason for it to be in the game anymore.

 

5.10, as enjoyable as the small story parts were (even though I personally don't like going back to rep vs. imp), was a VERY BAD decision. Because it limits endgame to one small planet where you can do only a very limited amount of things.

 

And for people like me who work in the evenings and can mostly play in the mornings, you are locked out of the only endgame-relevant contents except the solo weekly that drops random 252 gear. Try finding an operation group at 9 am.

 

(...)

 

So adding gear was stupid because it completely threw away a functioning gearing system.

 

And that brings me to my conclusion - in order to avoid Musco counting me as a satisfied customer, I have not and will not participate in the futless new grind. Musco himself could grant me an entire 258 set and I wouldn't use it out of sheer principle.

 

TLDR: 5.10 was not a major expansion, and thus adding new gear was stupid because:

1. Adding MM gods in the first place was stupid

2. Adding new gear with the excuse of it being for MM gods was stupid

3. Nerfing every other op to add gear for mm gods was stupid

4. Creating discontent amongst the player base for minimal advantage in other portions of the player base was stupid

5. Getting rid of a gearing system it took 2 years to get to a tolerable level was stupid.

 

I agree with everything that KendraP wrote in their posts. And I aswell gave up participating in the Ossus gear grind. I do the usual now: level more alts.

 

Endgame as it is right now is a disaster. And you can - again - see it everyhwere in game. The numbers. The activtities. This forum is in its most boring state ever. In the past, you could find an interesting topic hourly. Then daily. Now weekly.

 

They have to quickly deliver something else to do! This new OP will not keep many people busy for a longer time. The amount of people not even interested in playing it is most likely a vast majority. What is there to do for those players? Ossus dailies? How often are players supposed to do them?

 

One possible solution would be very (compared to other solutions) simple: ADD MORE THINGS TO GALACTIC COMMAND, so that the whole game becomes endgame again. Add 252 gear to galactic command with a decent (not too small, not too big) droprate. On top of that, we get galactic points (forgot the name of the currency), so we can eventually upgrade to 258. Add new shinies, too! Maybe even add a new command level.

 

The command system as it is is fine right now (or would be, if it would still be relevant). Don't abandon it. Keep it as an interesting, but secondary, method to participate in endgame content. I admit that I liked galactic command after they tweaked it to its current state. But right now, I have no incentive to go for it anymore. I don't have anything to play with my level 70 chars at the moment, because I don't want to go to Ossus anymore. (And yes, I am aware that I could integrate command gear to get the points to trade them for new gear, so galactic command is not 100% irrelevant now, but I made a point.)

[Khaleg]

I hate it too. I'm totally not motivated to farm 252+ gear AT ALL. I couldn't care less. Except for the Hive Queen and an occasinal WB kll I've never been on Ossus anymore after I got 100 % reputation, all decos and the datacrons.

 

It's a mindless grind fpr stupid people imho (and a pathetic and impudent time play on Bioware's/EA's part) and in addition totally irrelevant/pointless when you don't do Gods MM or hi-end PVP. The slot binding of mods and enhancements is totally stupid and player unfriendly too, I would even say hostile.

I regard that update as even more retarded, impudent and a "may I leave this game?" No Go/fail as the infamous and legendary Ben Irving ****up end of 2015.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Khaleg

[AlrikFassbauer]

Farm Wars • TOR Update 5.10.* has made TWO YEARS of Random Gear Crates Grind Obsolete

 

So, TOR-Fashion has an update on Ossus ?

[Rion_Starkiller]

unless they changed it, bolster only exists in story modes.

 

I wrote my post quickly and it might be a bit convoluted.

 

What I meant by that statement is that they could have added bolster to 258 for NiM Gods if they wanted. Then they wouldn't have needed to add new gear tiers. There's a "bolsterizer" terminal on fleet -- it's got to be easier than unnecessary new gear tiers.

 

But that would be ridiculous. Who wants to be bolstered in a NiM raid? Who wants to be bolstered at all?

 

#removebolster!

Edited February 20, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[KendraP]

I wrote my post quickly and it might be a bit convoluted.

 

What I meant by that statement is that they could have added bolster to 258 for NiM Gods if they wanted. Then they wouldn't have needed to add new gear tiers. There's a "bolsterizer" terminal on fleet -- it's got to be easier than unnecessary new gear tiers.

 

But that would be ridiculous. Who wants to be bolstered in a NiM raid? Who wants to be bolstered at all?

 

#removebolster!

 

I can see why bolster exists in some areas. SM ops for instance - without bolster the choices are:

1. Cut into the ops base by making them all scaled to level 70

2. Make them all level 50 and 70s get debolstered like on planets

3. Make them all 50 with no debolster, once again cutting jnto the ops player base.

 

Like you said originally, if they insisted on adding MM gods, they could have added new mechanics if the dps checks were already too tight.

 

The point truly is: any way around it, adding new gear was stupid.

[FourPawnBenoni]

This update still sucks:

 

1. It's still an incredible grind - only 2 Masterwork crystals a week and 1 Monumental crystal a week (not including UAC's).

 

2. Weekly Dailies is a random reward. You can narrow it down a little bit but is still random and I've gone 3 weeks in a row without getting a new piece I can use.

 

3. Queen loot is random and also you have to roll for it. If you don't win a roll, then you're locked out for the week and another week wasted.

 

4.) UAC's increase in price each purchase during the week.

 

I still don't see how any of the gearing systems from 5.0 to 5.10 are better than the 4.0 era where you got comms for your activity (pvp or ops), went to the vendor and bought the piece you want. Why is that so hard to bring back? The pvp gear could reasonably be obtained in a week or two and you could get your alts geared up as well.

[ForfiniteStories]

Of course a new MAJOR EXPANSION comes with a new gear tier. It also comes with a new level cap and the last few have had content rescaled to require the new gear. Additionally, because its a MAJOR EXPANSION I expect everything to be reset. Its part and parcel to such expansions.

 

Thus, had they increased the level cap to 75, called it 6.0 instead of 5.10, and either added 3 new gear tiers or gotten rid of the vendors on fleet for the old tier, fine. Its a "MAJOR EXPANSION".

 

But they didn't. They added a grind for the sake of grind to "keep people playing until 6.0." Or at least that seems to be the community consensus on the concept.

 

What we were told was that Mr Kanneg wanted a MM gods, so we were getting a MM gods despite the 0.001% of players that actually still bother doing MM ops. The other 99.999% of us either can not or will not do MM for whatever reason.

 

They had previously stated that HM gods was already scaled to be like MM, and thus no MM would be coming. This made sense considering ravagers and ToS, both of whom end at HM. (And given the number of people who have attempted to lord revanchist around, it apparently means something to someone).

 

Then, upon announcing MM gods, they said new gear would be necessary to complete it. This aspect was something totally in their control. They could have scaled HM down, or made MM harder with mechanics if HM is too close a dps check as it is. Instead, they added gear. How many people have actually been unsuccessful in 248 gear that are successful in 258? I'd bet not many - you either had the skill and group for it before or you still don't now.

 

So adding the gear was stupid because adding a MM version of an already (purposefully) overscaled op was stupid.

 

Furthermore, they already added a gear tier this expansion (248) around the time they also nerfed many/most dps specs to fit their tiers, leading to accusations of nerfing classes just to add gear. So they had already nerfed every endgame activity once (better gear means more dps/hps, which makes dps/hps checks easier in ALL content). Now, they do it again, but no nerfs to dps are forseeable (and if they did there would be an understandable riot), so they nerfed literally every op that is not gods to add MM gods.

 

So now we have another reason adding gear was stupid - it effectively nerfed every other op to add new gear.

 

Then there were the inevitable side effects - pvpers crying over new grind tied to pve of any kind, solo players crying over tying gear to group content, etc. It seems it would have been easier to, if they just had to add MM gods, to make it MM by a combination of nerfing HM back to the level of other HM and adding in mechanics if dps checks were already too tight.

 

So adding new gear was stupid because it added issues that could have been easily averted even if they insisted they had to add MM gods.

 

And now we get to the original point of the thread - this was not listed as a "MAJOR EXAPANSION". Thus, no one should have been expecting an entirely new gearing system in place of one that was already functioning. 5.0 was incredibly unpopular as it originally dropped. After 2 years of fiddling with the system to where it was finally tolerable for the overwhelming majority of players, they throw it out for max tier gear. After taking 2 years to get something working, why drop it like a hot potato? Further, if the insisted on adding gear, why not do so within the system that already existed for this expansion? Yes, it was probably a futless attempt to force players to ossus and gods so we are "enjoying their new content."

 

So adding gear was stupid because it completely threw away a functioning gearing system.

 

And that brings me to my conclusion - in order to avoid Musco counting me as a satisfied customer, I have not and will not participate in the futless new grind. Musco himself could grant me an entire 258 set and I wouldn't use it out of sheer principle.

 

TLDR: 5.10 was not a major expansion, and thus adding new gear was stupid because:

1. Adding MM gods in the first place was stupid

2. Adding new gear with the excuse of it being for MM gods was stupid

3. Nerfing every other op to add gear for mm gods was stupid

4. Creating discontent amongst the player base for minimal advantage in other portions of the player base was stupid

5. Getting rid of a gearing system it took 2 years to get to a tolerable level was stupid.

 

A new tier of gear causing problems? Shocking! Saw it coming a mile away. Honestly, I'm almost at the point of no longer caring about endgame content. Without interest in that, what reason would there be for me to subscribe? People lose interest in gearing as they lose interest in anything that doesn't have a destination. Who wants to level and gear forever just to do the same stuff they did before? It becomes redundant after a while. That is why I am just leveling up alts in WoW, and then abandoning them for another after they reach level cap. No point in gear or endgame if its just going to be replaced by another thing called a tier in a few months time, because it'll literally be a waste of time.

 

Ironically, I would not mind new tiers of gear and levels even, if the process wasn't so complicated. And the 5.10 tier is quite tedious to say the least. No, not the grind--though the grind is a bother since there really isn't enough content to justify it, like a whole expansion, for instance--but the addition of numerous currencies, the lack of ability to switch out enhancements with other pieces of gear (apparently anyway), etc.

 

When 6.0 arrives and they buff the Ops to match the new tiers of gear that will come out, what would be the point of a new tier of gear if I am at the same point I was before the expansion?

 

If they don't buff the Ops to match the new tier of gear, what would be the point in doing the Ops at their intended level if all I have to do is wait for a new tier of gear to solo it?

 

As for this new tier of gear making non-MM VotMGs easier, that's a good point. What purpose is there in multiple difficulties if they are all thrown to the wayside?

 

Well said though. I really appreciate this post.

Edited February 21, 2019 by ForfiniteStories